Annual accounts released
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Annual accounts released
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Re: Annual accounts released
Good news and credit to the previous directors for a good and prudent financial strategy.
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Re: Annual accounts released
£80,000,000 cash in hand / bank?
Re: Annual accounts released
I’m not an accountant, some on here are, but do I see £80m in the bank pre takeover?
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Re: Annual accounts released
Like SGr I will await a breakdown from those who understand accounts better than I do
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Re: Annual accounts released
£94m on wages... jesus wept
Sidney will be along in a minute to tell me we don't have anyone earning over £40k a week HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA!
Sidney will be along in a minute to tell me we don't have anyone earning over £40k a week HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA!
Re: Annual accounts released
We sensibly have a generous bonus structure that doesn't commit those sums recurrently should the worst happen.tarkys_ears wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:26 pm£94m on wages... jesus wept
Sidney will be along in a minute to tell me we don't have anyone earning over £40k a week HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA!
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Re: Annual accounts released
13 months of wages everyone so do not get excited about that - it essentially means that wages were flat (ie. no growth)
£80m in the bank is not far off what I was suggesting a few months back either - so again no surprise (same with revenue)
I have also said for some time, that last summer we were geared up for some spending in the transfer market before the pandemic hit - we had all but freed the space in the wage bill and then had some money to spend on fees
- I will now have a look through the actual report
£80m in the bank is not far off what I was suggesting a few months back either - so again no surprise (same with revenue)
I have also said for some time, that last summer we were geared up for some spending in the transfer market before the pandemic hit - we had all but freed the space in the wage bill and then had some money to spend on fees
- I will now have a look through the actual report
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Re: Annual accounts released
£80m in cash or equivalent and once again we only have 2 fit wingers. Still it's better than several times we have only had 1.
We are probably safe this year, but what a ridiculous state of affairs.
You have got to admire though that we seem to have weathered Covid well.
We are probably safe this year, but what a ridiculous state of affairs.
You have got to admire though that we seem to have weathered Covid well.
Re: Annual accounts released
All wrapped up in the takeover deal.summitclaret wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:52 pm£80m in cash or equivalent and once again we only have 2 fit wingers. Still it's better than several times we have only had 1.
We are probably safe this year, but what a ridiculous state of affairs.
You have got to admire though that we seem to have weathered Covid well.
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Re: Annual accounts released
Not true, the 94m figure is adjusted to 12 months the 13 month figure is over 100m.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:52 pm13 months of wages everyone so do not get excited about that - it essentially means that wages were flat (ie. no growth)
£80m in the bank is not far off what I was suggesting a few months back either - so again no surprise (same with revenue)
I have also said for some time, that last summer we were geared up for some spending in the transfer market before the pandemic hit - we had all but freed the space in the wage bill and then had some money to spend on fees
- I will now have a look through the actual report
Last edited by claretandy on Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Annual accounts released
It wasn't avoidable if the new owners applied conditions, which they almost certainly will have, because without it seems they would have had a challenge obtaining the equivalent capital to proceed with the takeover.summitclaret wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:57 pmThat was at one time looking iffy due to our exceptionally poor start to the season, that was completely avoidable.
Re: Annual accounts released
But we only lost 4 home games in these accounts. In the next one it'll be probably 19 games, so only then will we be able to fully assess how well we've weathered Covid.summitclaret wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:52 pm
You have got to admire though that we seem to have weathered Covid well.
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Re: Annual accounts released
I’d assumed the £94m covered 13 months. Thanks for pointing that out.claretandy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:57 pmNot true, the 94m figure is adjusted to 12 months the 13 month figure is over 100m.
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Re: Annual accounts released
That depends on how you read the bonus situation - for the first time the club have confirmed that bonus pools are based on final league position - that position was 5 places higher (normally an extra £15m of revenue (last year about £10m)claretandy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:57 pmNot true, the 94m figure is adjusted to 12 months the 13 month figure is over 100m.
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Re: Annual accounts released
Unless we know exactly how much bonus is due for highrt finishing position, we will never know, what we do know is wages were 8m higher.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:15 pmThat depends on how you read the bonus situation - for the first time the club have confirmed that bonus pools are based on final league position - that position was 5 places higher (normally an extra £15m of revenue (last year about £10m)
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Re: Annual accounts released
a few other things to note
- permanent employee numbers fractionally down (There is a league 2 club that has more than us)
- I think some transfer debt owed to us has been delayed - my understanding is it was all due in last summer
- Amortisation decreased - (it will have done so again this season)
- The notes confirm an inter company loan post takeover but not for how much
- it appears we spent £46m or so last season on Intangible assets (players this usually means)
- permanent employee numbers fractionally down (There is a league 2 club that has more than us)
- I think some transfer debt owed to us has been delayed - my understanding is it was all due in last summer
- Amortisation decreased - (it will have done so again this season)
- The notes confirm an inter company loan post takeover but not for how much
- it appears we spent £46m or so last season on Intangible assets (players this usually means)
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Re: Annual accounts released
Who on earth are the League 2 clubs with more permanent staff? I can only guess at Salford.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:30 pma few other things to note
- permanent employee numbers fractionally down (There is a league 2 club that has more than us)
- I think some transfer debt owed to us has been delayed - my understanding is it was all due in last summer
- Amortisation decreased - (it will have done so again this season)
- The notes confirm an inter company loan post takeover but not for how much
- it appears we spent £46m or so last season on Intangible assets (players this usually means)
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Re: Annual accounts released
I agreeclaretandy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:24 pmUnless we know exactly how much bonus is due for highrt finishing position, we will never know, what we do know is wages were 8m higher.
if you take away the PAYE and pension costs the increase is about 50% of the expected place money which seems an incentivised approach (perhaps overly so) - There were some notable new deals that season for Wood and Dwight - was Pope done as well? - plus you would expect Jay to be on a decent wack
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Re: Annual accounts released
So have we got 80m in the bank now or did it get swallowed up in the takeover?
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Re: Annual accounts released
not Salford - I spat my drink out when I saw it last week - from the MMT threadClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:33 pmWho on earth are the League 2 clubs with more permanent staff? I can only guess at Salford.
Chester Perry wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:13 am@KieranMaguire has been posting about Colchester United's financial results how on earth does a League Two club employ more permanent staff than Burnley in in the Premier League for 7 seasons in the last 11
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 7642336256
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Re: Annual accounts released
Remember there has been little income, so it will have dripped out in wages and running costs - Mat Slaters £50 - £55m at the end of December before his suggested £30m loan feels right - as I said at the timeQuickenthetempo wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:36 pmSo have we got 80m in the bank now or did it get swallowed up in the takeover?
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Re: Annual accounts released
Based on last seasons wages, league position and TV income alongside the research you do what do you estimate our wage costs and TV income will be for 20/21?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:39 pmRemember there has been little income, so it will have dripped out in wages and running costs - Mat Slaters £50 - £55m at the end of December before his suggested £30m loan feels right - as I said at the time
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Re: Annual accounts released
Quite a few unknowns in that - we still owe about £7m in rebates for last season - There is the Chinese TV deal collapse to account for yet (around £340m with another years losses next season) which the premier League did not deduct from prize money last season. We are as yet unaware of rebates this season and as yet do not know where we will finish in the table.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:47 pmBased on last seasons wages, league position and TV income alongside the research you do what do you estimate our wage costs and TV income will be for 20/21?
Wages were looking to be down (just from a numbers perspective) - do we assume the many renewals are at the same, lower or higher rates as currently. We also do not know if our new board members are paying themselves wages (especially the ALK 3) or at what rate. I would expect us to be back down to the 2018/19 levels before the board members are added.
I do not expect that we will return to a 31 June month end so anticipate those figures for 12 months
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Re: Annual accounts released
Is that now or was it last season they had more staff than us? They did sack John McGreal last summer and promoted the academy manager up to head coach, although that's not worked out. It's staggering though from a club that is by no means one of the biggest in League Two.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:36 pmnot Salford - I spat my drink out when I saw it last week - from the MMT thread
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Re: Annual accounts released
I would add we were on target for a £20m profit (pre-covid and a June 31 Accounting year end)Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:30 pma few other things to note
- permanent employee numbers fractionally down (There is a league 2 club that has more than us)
- I think some transfer debt owed to us has been delayed - my understanding is it was all due in last summer
- Amortisation decreased - (it will have done so again this season)
- The notes confirm an inter company loan post takeover but not for how much
- it appears we spent £46m or so last season on Intangible assets (players this usually means)
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Re: Annual accounts released
So what would an educated guess from you be on how much TV revenue we expect to get. When are the TV payments made and have there been any in this current accounting year?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:57 pmQuite a few unknowns in that - we still owe about £7m in rebates for last season - There is the Chinese TV deal collapse to account for yet (around £340m with another years losses next season) which the premier League did not deduct from prize money last season. We are as yet unaware of rebates this season and as yet do not know where we will finish in the table.
Wages were looking to be down (just from a numbers perspective) - do we assume the many renewals are at the same, lower or higher rates as currently. We also do not know if our new board members are paying themselves wages (especially the ALK 3) or at what rate. I would expect us to be back down to the 2018/19 levels before the board members are added.
I do not expect that we will return to a 31 June month end so anticipate those figures for 12 months
Re: Annual accounts released
How was the poor start avoidable?summitclaret wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:57 pmThat was at one time looking iffy due to our exceptionally poor start to the season, that was completely avoidable.
We had an injury to Ben Mee and it showed when he came back how much he was missed. Indeed he seems to be the one player we cannot do without. We had Ben Gibson as a replacement but obviously not available. Short of buying a top quality centre back at short notice (and probably stupid money) and for a temporary problem I don't see what more could have been done. You might say 'Dawson' but I don't know how likely that would have been and there would of course have been the usual accusations of the age of the squad.
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Re: Annual accounts released
Payments come in 3 instalmentsDevils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:02 pmSo what would an educated guess from you be on how much TV revenue we expect to get. When are the TV payments made and have there been any in this current accounting year?
July/August - Jan/Feb - Season End (merit payments and TV appearancesm
So we have had 2 payments for the season (though possibly only one in the Accounting period so far)
as for guessing TV revenue I would say the Premier League are more likely to, deduct the Chinese TV money in the next cycle (in an effort to even out the pain) so we could pull in £105m - £115m
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Re: Annual accounts released
Cheers CP so had we continued without the takeover and with our prudent Covid strategy then it sounds like our losses could have been kept to a minimum and retained the majority of our cash in the bank?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:14 pmPayments come in 3 instalments
July/August - Jan/Feb - Season End (merit payments and TV appearancesm
So we have had 2 payments for the season (though possibly only one in the Accounting period so far)
as for guessing TV revenue I would say the Premier League are more likely to, deduct the Chinese TV money in the next cycle (in an effort to even out the pain) so we could pull in £105m - £115m
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Re: Annual accounts released
That is the 2019/20 accounts like ours - Colchester had even more than that in 2018/19ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:59 pmIs that now or was it last season they had more staff than us? They did sack John McGreal last summer and promoted the academy manager up to head coach, although that's not worked out. It's staggering though from a club that is by no means one of the biggest in League Two.
I can only assume that their matchday stadium staff staff are on permanent contract at the club
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Re: Annual accounts released
yep as I have consistently said, we could have come out in the summer in a strong position with space in the budget for new additions, the contract extensions in January and the loans have substantially weakened that positionDevils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:18 pmCheers CP so had we continued without the takeover and with our prudent Covid strategy then it sounds like our losses could have been kept to a minimum and retained the majority of our cash in the bank?
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Re: Annual accounts released
We knew Ben was going to be out, we knew Tarky was looking to go/the Board wanted to sell him, we knew Brady was unreliable fitness wise (and to some extent JBG). They still are.Hipper wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:03 pmHow was the poor start avoidable?
We had an injury to Ben Mee and it showed when he came back how much he was missed. Indeed he seems to be the one player we cannot do without. We had Ben Gibson as a replacement but obviously not available. Short of buying a top quality centre back at short notice (and probably stupid money) and for a temporary problem I don't see what more could have been done. You might say 'Dawson' but I don't know how likely that would have been and there would of course have been the usual accusations of the age of the squad.
Furthermore, we knew that Tarky would go in the next 2 windows, if not then. We could have signed a young cb to eventually replace Tarky. Or as many have said and been proved right signed Dawson.
Yet we allowed around a fifth of the season to be gone, with Dunne and Long at cb.
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Re: Annual accounts released
What this has to do with the accounts I don’t know, other than the obvious need not to overspend, but it’s maybe worth pointing out that Dunne has only ever played in two Premier League games for us.summitclaret wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:29 pmWe knew Ben was going to be out, we knew Tarky was looking to go/the Board wanted to sell him, we knew Brady was unreliable fitness wise (and to some extent JBG). They still are.
Furthermore, we knew that Tarky would go in the next 2 windows, if not then. We could have signed a young cb to eventually replace Tarky. Or as many have said and been proved right signed Dawson.
Yet we allowed around a fifth of the season to be gone, with Dunne and Long at cb.
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Re: Annual accounts released
How much of that was Sean not budging on his target choices, and the board having an absolute ceiling on their target valuations (the latter is better than the former in my view for the club)summitclaret wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:29 pmWe knew Ben was going to be out, we knew Tarky was looking to go/the Board wanted to sell him, we knew Brady was unreliable fitness wise (and to some extent JBG). They still are.
Furthermore, we knew that Tarky would go in the next 2 windows, if not then. We could have signed a young cb to eventually replace Tarky. Or as many have said and been proved right signed Dawson.
Yet we allowed around a fifth of the season to be gone, with Dunne and Long at cb.
Re: Annual accounts released
And crucially the former owners and new owners knew the club was being sold.summitclaret wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:29 pmWe knew Ben was going to be out, we knew Tarky was looking to go/the Board wanted to sell him, we knew Brady was unreliable fitness wise (and to some extent JBG). They still are.
Furthermore, we knew that Tarky would go in the next 2 windows, if not then. We could have signed a young cb to eventually replace Tarky. Or as many have said and been proved right signed Dawson.
Yet we allowed around a fifth of the season to be gone, with Dunne and Long at cb.
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Re: Annual accounts released
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Re: Annual accounts released
The real concern in the accounts is the wage to revenue ratio - we will struggle to spend on new players, without significant exits while it is as high as it has been this last couple of yearsGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:52 pmhttps://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 32960?s=19
Worth a look.
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Re: Annual accounts released
I just don’t see how the club can do business this summer? Unless we shift on a few of our higher earners and by cheap I can’t see how we have the finances to buy anyone.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:11 pmThe real concern in the accounts is the wage to revenue ratio - we will struggle to spend on new players, without significant exits while it is as high as it has been this last couple of years
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Re: Annual accounts released
So would you say we were in a healthy position, up until those accounts are responsible for?
And to what extent do you think this season (including the takeover) will put us? Financially?
I literally have no idea where to start in beginning to understand the club's finances.
And to what extent do you think this season (including the takeover) will put us? Financially?
I literally have no idea where to start in beginning to understand the club's finances.
Re: Annual accounts released
I would hope Hart, Lennon, Hendrick leaving would hopefully free up a decent amount of wages. Would some payment for Drinkwater be included in that too?
Even with Hart, Lennon and Hendrick I’d guess at £150k a week freed up at least.
Even with Hart, Lennon and Hendrick I’d guess at £150k a week freed up at least.
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Re: Annual accounts released
Drinkwater's stay would be included in those accounts - no idea how costly it was but that was what, from what I'm told, that started the arguments between Dyche and Garlick.
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Re: Annual accounts released
Tarks is most likely going to leave.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:23 pmI just don’t see how the club can do business this summer? Unless we shift on a few of our higher earners and by cheap I can’t see how we have the finances to buy anyone.
That's his wages and whatever fee we get for him.
One year left, so circa £20-30 million, maybe.
One would hope our scouting team have targets lined up...
Re: Annual accounts released
Interesting. Which one wanted Drinkwater and which one was proved right and didn't want him?ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:39 pmDrinkwater's stay would be included in those accounts - no idea how costly it was but that was what, from what I'm told, that started the arguments between Dyche and Garlick.
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Re: Annual accounts released
Hi CT, are you suggesting that Mike Garlick was making too many footballing decisions, who the club should sign and who the club should let go? Is that's what's behind Sean Dyche referencing, as reported by Sky Sports today, that Alan Pace will leave all the football decisions to SD? Where did Ben Gibson fit in their relationship? Similar question re Joe Hart?
UTC