Andre Gray

Fretters · Post by **Fretters** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:52 pm

What's happened to him? He's appeared 24 times this season, scoring four goals. He was a machine at that level for us and Brentford, a bag of pace, power and goals.

Just confidence you think?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:06 pm

Only started 12 games plus 12 sub appearances.

I didn’t know he’d made his international debut last week. He played for Jamaica against America.

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:25 pm

Notwithstanding his obvious contribution for us his horrible touch and poor finishing was as plain as the nose on my face. I think his success with us was down to Dyche man management and our team togetherness and mentality.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:31 pm

His control wasn’t the best but I always thought his finishing was very good whilst he was with us.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:32 pm

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:31 pm
His control wasn’t the best but I always thought his finishing was very good whilst he was with us.

Nothing wrong with his finishing

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:38 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:32 pm
Nothing wrong with his finishing

My opinion differs. He was capable of missing from anywhere and never had confidence in him in a one on one situation. From everything I’ve read Watford fans would take my position on this one too.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:38 pm

All told we did very well with Andre Gray, both on the pitch and in the accounts. I hoped he could carry his development on but it has probably not worked out as well for him has he and his club had hoped - still I will always wish him well as his contribution while with us was good.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:40 pm

I don't know the ethos behind the Watford club but it does seem players like Gray respond to the management skills of a man like Dyche by buying into the whole package of what is hoped for with regard to the player's and the club's future.
It seems that Watford are a very good side by Championship standards but Gray appears to be a comfortable, underachieving victim of that and is either not on board or not being fully allowed to be on board.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:49 pm

I am firmly in the camp of 'now't wrong with his finishing' whilst he was here.

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:51 pm

Gray’s regression at Watford highlights the most important thing for me which is our brilliant manager. We should never underestimate how powerful the togetherness he’s cultivated is. Despite my strong opinions on Andre Grays limitations get was undoubtedly a key component in that period for us. For balance I can’t leave his wonderful attributes (strength and pace) unmentioned.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:55 pm

what_no_pies wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:38 pm
My opinion differs. He was capable of missing from anywhere and never had confidence in him in a one on one situation. From everything I’ve read Watford fans would take my position on this one too.

Cracking goalscoring record at Burnley, not so at Watford so I wouldn’t expect the two sets of supporters to agree on him. 28 goals in 68+1 with one of the seasons his first in the Premier League. I was sorry to see him go.

Fretters · Post by **Fretters** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:56 pm

Didn't he win Championship player of the year when we went up? And the golden boot? He was an excellent striker for us. And his first touch wasn't as bad as people like to make out, remember his goal at Bolton?

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:57 pm

I think he was a great signing all round, did well for us, did well for himself, was a good sale for Brentford, was probably good for his agent.....Not sure if Watford have come out of it that well mind.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:06 pm

Fretters wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:56 pm
Didn't he win Championship player of the year when we went up? And the golden boot? He was an excellent striker for us. And his first touch wasn't as bad as people like to make out, remember his goal at Bolton?

I remember the winning goal against palace think it was our first away win a superb rocket finish, he wasn’t a bad player all in all for us in the grand scheme of things.

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:23 pm

Whilst his goals were frequent and no less valuable for it, a lot of them were scuffed in and he missed more than his fair share of sitters. I maintain that his finishing was questionable at best. Given his record at Watford I personally think the questions have now been fully answered.

Natural athlete.
Not a natural finisher.

The reality is that we found the right recipe and he was an important ingredient, but that was entirely down to his physical attributes in my view.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:31 pm

Gray's finishing was like Barnes' in one very big sense - if he hit it first time or after one touch, he was lethal. Hit it hard and give the keeper no time to react. When he had to dribble or take extra touches, I was less confident.

Claretitus · Post by **Claretitus** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:35 pm

Will never forget his winner away to Birmingham. Absolute quality finish, from a very good striker in that Championship winning side.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:36 pm

what_no_pies wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:23 pm
Whilst his goals were frequent and no less valuable for it, a lot of them were scuffed in and he missed more than his fair share of sitters. I maintain that his finishing was questionable at best. Given his record at Watford I personally think the questions have now been fully answered.

Natural athlete.
Not a natural finisher.

The reality is that we found the right recipe and he was an important ingredient, but that was entirely down to his physical attributes in my view.

I don't think you are finding many to agree with you. A lot of his goals were scuffed? I'd go back and take a look if I were you at some of his goals, hardly scuffed, and even if they were they still all count one.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:37 pm

Claretitus wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:35 pm
Will never forget his winner away to Birmingham. Absolute quality finish, from a very good striker in that Championship winning side.

Absolutely and someone's also mentioned Bolton, then there was the winner at Fulham in the next away game. Then, of course his finish against Liverpool for his first Premier League goal and the one at Palace for his last Premier League goal for us. He scored a lot of outstanding goals for us.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:59 pm

what_no_pies wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:23 pm
Whilst his goals were frequent and no less valuable for it, a lot of them were scuffed in and he missed more than his fair share of sitters. I maintain that his finishing was questionable at best. Given his record at Watford I personally think the questions have now been fully answered.

Natural athlete.
Not a natural finisher.

The reality is that we found the right recipe and he was an important ingredient, but that was entirely down to his physical attributes in my view.

I can see where you’re coming from.

He could be frustrating. He wasn’t one of those strikers you were sure would finish it when played into a promising position. He certainly wasn’t a natural goal scorer.

We got the best out of him and although a little disappointed to see him leave, it was plan as day that we’d got the better end of the deal.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:13 pm

Did a great job for us , we did very well out of him . Was excellent at champ level with the right players around him, though at times he had barely scraps to feed on . While his career will ultimately be looked back on as mediocre , he’s a multi millionaire and fair play to the former England C international .

Ps for me, he was too heavy and muscular and seemed to bulk up when he needed a tad more agility

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:33 pm

Did well for us - even in the prem he was decent. He wasn’t the most gifted footballer but he was quick and a decent finisher.

We did well with him and sold him well. Wood is a better all round player and has replaced him with 41 prem goals so far so as a club we have done great out of him.

Vydra is also a better player IMO.

AfloatinClaret · Post by **AfloatinClaret** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:36 pm

what_no_pies wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:23 pm
...and he missed more than his fair share of sitters. I maintain that his finishing was questionable at best...

I can see that you weren't enamoured; whereas for me, the worst player for missing 'sitters' was Steven Fletcher and I thought selling him to Wolves for £6 or £7 million was a marvellous bit of business, what did we buy him for, about £3 million?

Culmclaret · Post by **Culmclaret** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:43 pm

We’ve been blessed with some good strikers in the past 20 odd years and he was one of them. As others have said it worked so well for us in terms of his contribution and the profit we made on him. Nowt wrong with anyone who gets the winner against Rovers

COBBLE · Post by **COBBLE** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:33 pm

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:06 pm
I remember the winning goal against palace think it was our first away win a superb rocket finish, he wasn’t a bad player all in all for us in the grand scheme of things.

One of my favourite Burnley goals. Great long pass to Andre by ? and he had to confidently carry the ball on several seconds before scoring with a belting shot.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:39 pm

COBBLE wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:33 pm
One of my favourite Burnley goals. Great long pass to Andre by ? and he had to confidently carry the ball on several seconds before scoring with a belting shot.

Was it George Boyd who played the ball for him at Palace?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:39 pm

COBBLE wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:33 pm
One of my favourite Burnley goals. Great long pass to Andre by ? and he had to confidently carry the ball on several seconds before scoring with a belting shot.

Was it George Boyd who played the ball for him at Palace?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:40 pm

To me he seems to have suffered the same issue as Akinbyie did with spending too much time in the gym killing some of his pace which was his biggest asset. He looks to be a completely different body shape over the last few years

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:41 pm

AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:36 pm
for me, the worst player for missing 'sitters' was Steven Fletcher and I thought selling him to Wolves for £6 or £7 million was a marvellous bit of business, what did we buy him for, about £3 million?

Fletcher looked a really good player but you couldn't bet on him scoring, he missed so many chances that season. He didn't look at times as if he could hit a barn door.

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:48 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:39 pm
Was it George Boyd who played the ball for him at Palace?

What a great way to seal our Premier League status that was. Cracking away day despite the trek to the ground

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:55 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:39 pm
Was it George Boyd who played the ball for him at Palace?

Yes very nice outside of the boot pass. Boyd’s last meaningful contribution for Burnley too.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:01 pm

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:55 pm
Yes very nice outside of the boot pass. Boyd’s last meaningful contribution for Burnley too.

It would have been. That was the summer he left.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:02 pm

JohnDearyMe wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:48 pm
What a great way to seal our Premier League status that was. Cracking away day despite the trek to the ground

We’ve finally sussed it for Palace. Park north of London and then train down there.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:14 pm

Great for us and gutted when he left, he didn't have the sublime first touch of Ings but his power and determination more then made up for it. His finishing was good but not exceptional which is why he went to the likes of Watford and not a team like Liverpool, Spurs or Arsenal.

Local cricketer · Post by **Local cricketer** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:48 pm

Scored a winner against Rovers that’s enough for me

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:52 pm

Disappointed he left but we got good money for him.

We haven't yet replaced the raw pace and power he possessed.

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:20 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:36 pm
I don't think you are finding many to agree with you. A lot of his goals were scuffed? I'd go back and take a look if I were you at some of his goals, hardly scuffed, and even if they were they still all count one.

I'm expressing my opinion Tony and am not seeking anyone's approval for it. No need for me to go back and take another look since I was there when he scored the vast majority and i was watching closely as me and my brother were split over this very issue so it was something I always had in mind.

Yes, he scored some good goals for us and I acknowledged the importance of those. As mentioned above, he often faltered if he had time to think about it. Composure was a big weakness of his and I had long hoped we'd see him improve in those areas as he would have been special if he did so. Fact is he chose to move on and went backwards rapidly which only reinforces my feelings about him.

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:24 pm

AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:36 pm
I can see that you weren't enamoured; whereas for me, the worst player for missing 'sitters' was Steven Fletcher and I thought selling him to Wolves for £6 or £7 million was a marvellous bit of business, what did we buy him for, about £3 million?

Hard to disagree with that but Fletcher had a fantastic first touch unlike Andre.

If we could make a striker with attributes from former players I reckon Grays pace and power would be in there along with Fletchers touch, Austins movement, Paytons finishing, Barnes cuteness and Blakes dribbling ability. I'm not so sure that player would have found himself at Turf Moor mind...

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:29 pm

Andre Gray was fantastic for us in the Championship. When we signed him I thought I could be really special. He had the combination of strength and pace which I hadn’t seen from a Burnley striker for some time.

Unfortunately I thought he was a little out of his depth in the Premier League where his pace was neutralised and his relatively poor ball control was exposed. I guess his career since leaving us backs that up. Generally speaking he was a good signing though and we did very well to sell him for what we did.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:31 pm

what_no_pies wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:24 pm
Hard to disagree with that but Fletcher had a fantastic first touch unlike Andre.

If we could make a striker with attributes from former players I reckon Grays pace and power would be in there along with Fletchers touch, Austins movement, Paytons finishing, Barnes cuteness and Blakes dribbling ability. I'm not so sure that player would have found himself at Turf Moor mind...

All them attributes combined into 1 I’m not sure that sort of player would find themselves at Barcelona meaning such a player doesn’t exist, even top top players would fall short in at least 1 department from the specific quality inventory.

Longsider · Post by **Longsider** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:04 pm

I've heard a big rumour from mates in Watford that the Burnley fans constantly saying "he couldn't trap a bag of cement" Massively got to him. Now this is only a rumour... Apparently went into home base in Watford and took on a few bags and lost. Confidence went South after this.

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:44 pm

what_no_pies wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:20 pm
I'm expressing my opinion Tony and am not seeking anyone's approval for it. No need for me to go back and take another look since I was there when he scored the vast majority and i was watching closely as me and my brother were split over this very issue so it was something I always had in mind.

Yes, he scored some good goals for us and I acknowledged the importance of those. As mentioned above, he often faltered if he had time to think about it. Composure was a big weakness of his and I had long hoped we'd see him improve in those areas as he would have been special if he did so. Fact is he chose to move on and went backwards rapidly which only reinforces my feelings about him.

I agree with you. He was a great signing at the time and we got fantastic money for him in the end, but it was quite clear that he was out of his depth in the Premier league. He scored a lot of goals at Championship level but I personally think we have had better finishers at the club, I also thought he was lacking technically which was often highlighted by his touch. His pace and power were unplayable at times in the Championship though and he certainly did the job we bought him for.

One for the good buy and good sale category.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:53 pm

We were absolutely right to move Andre on when we did, he fired us to promotion, and did ok in his 1st PL season, but he did only bag 9 goals, 3 of which were against Sunderland, so an offer of nearly £20m was too good for us to turn down, and in hindsight we got much the better of the deal than either Andre or Watford.

I was never convinced he could hack the PL, but I am surprised he's struggled in the Championship, especially given the decent players Watford possess at that level, and they look like coming back up, so it'll be interesting whether he is still with them next season, or whether they get new signings to try and keep them in the PL.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:55 am

You always thought going to the game, home or away if Andre was playing we'd have a good chance today and in most of those games he didn't dissapoint. Brilliant for us and for that I'll always be grateful to him.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:06 am

Jamaica played him in a kind of #10 role which makes you think.

Gp8419 · Post by **Gp8419** » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:32 am

Very good for us and at the time we had just been relegated hardly spending a penny in the prem.Then I thought wow that’s a statement of intent nearly 10m on a striker was a gamble but paid off big time.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:34 am

Excellent signing for us.

SouthLondonexile · Post by **SouthLondonexile** » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:51 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:34 am
Excellent signing for us.

I agree. Gray was a special striker with the knack of scoring goals. When he left Burnley he was on the brink of an England place.
Football clubs often make or break players, his development at Watford stopped and that is a real shame.
A waste of his talents!

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:28 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:34 am
Excellent signing for us.

The signing of him and Joey was an absolute master stroke (with what a £8m-ish total investment). Andre was absolutely on fire with us (as successful at scoring as Payton at his peak). Joey was absolute class using all his experience and savvy, and proved to be a brilliant motivator.

What really annoys me today is that we have a major structure in our current Recruitment & Analytics team-then we had MacParland as the recruitment guy, and in the last three years we have lost the ability to pluck these gem. Before people jump out at me and say its down to Dyche to approve the signings and he is the obstacle, he was not the obstacle 5 years ago, and something in terms of relationships has gone wrong. Reading yesterday that Pace & Dyche seem to be on the same wave length is very encouraging and hopefully bodes well

Coming back to Gray-something like 5 assists and 28 goals in that promotion winning season is incredible and I will always be grateful for that achievement. He was often the goal scorer in many 1-0 wins. I also believe he was not here for a full season too. I think had he stayed with us he would still have been capable of 8-10 goals a season, lets face it no one will come close to that this season for us

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:53 am

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:28 am
I think had he stayed with us he would still have been capable of 8-10 goals a season, lets face it no one will come close to that this season for us

I reckon Wood will manage at least two goals in our last nine games.