After my data analysis of the current Burnley squad was quite well received I decided to do something similar but different and do a player focus on Ashley Westwood.

Again, if you don't like the whole football data thing it's probably not for you but hopefully most will enjoy.

https://claretmatt.medium.com/ashley-we ... c46faf1cd2

FAO CT; whilst the club badge is hidden behind Westy I assure you it's the correct one.

So he's above Shelvey in 2 areas according to that image?

I'm not having that, Shelvey is apparently an exciting forward thinking player who we should want to sign, according to some.

Absolutely brilliant piece and effort.

On a serious note, that's a really good read with lots of good information.

Will you be doing this with more players?
Or don't you have the same love interest with any others?

It’s great how Ashley always seems to have a brew in his hands. Sign of a decent chap, that.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:08 pm

Or don't you have the same love interest with any others?

An odd comment.

Back to OP. Great work again with the stats. Would be interesting to see how other players in our squad look.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:08 pm

On a serious note, that's a really good read with lots of good information.

Will you be doing this with more players?
Or don't you have the same love interest with any others?

Thanks!

They take a fair bit of time but I was planning on doing one on Vydra and how he's changed since signing and why Dyche seems to trust him more now. Hopefully the data will have an answer but I haven't really looked yet.

Conroy92 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:28 pm

An odd comment.

Back to OP. Great work again with the stats. Would be interesting to see how other players in our squad look.

Humour, based on the references to his own large admiration of Ash.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:31 pm

Humour, based on the references to his own large admiration of Ash.

Fair enough! Sailed over my head

Been a good servant to the club has Ashley.

Be interesting to see his stats this season compared to last.
Would love it if we could sign someone to play alongside him.

Mattster wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:29 pm

Thanks!

They take a fair bit of time but I was planning on doing one on Vydra and how he's changed since signing and why Dyche seems to trust him more now. Hopefully the data will have an answer but I haven't really looked yet.

Don't think Vydra has really changed much in all the time he has been with us - it's mainly down to the fact that SD has changed, and now picks him

Superb analysis and clearly explained, I really enjoyed reading that!

One of the top 3 performing English midfielders over the last 3 years - Gareth prefers Harry Winks though which says it all

Westy is a superb player in our system and doesn't always get the recognition he deserves. Easily I out top 3 Prem midfielders for me with Defour & Joey Barton. Thats despite the fact I'm a massive Alexander and Marney fan. The lad is quality.

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:18 pm

One of the top 3 performing English midfielders over the last 3 years - Gareth prefers Harry Winks though which says it all

So you think Westwood should be in the England squad?

Improved vastly after the passage of Steven Defour.
Not exactly the same type of player, but I think he intelligently saw what he could add to his game, and to his credit he has

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:19 pm

So you think Westwood should be in the England squad?

Statistically it’s without question

Goes to show that stats can show whatever you want them to.
He’s a good servant and has earnt his corn but we desperately need to upgrade these steady Eddie journeymen for a bit of flair and quality .

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:10 pm

Goes to show that stats can show whatever you want them to.
He’s a good servant and has earnt his corn but we desperately need to upgrade these steady Eddie journeymen for a bit of flair and quality .

Add to that pace and strength

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:10 pm

Goes to show that stats can show whatever you want them to.
He’s a good servant and has earnt his corn but we desperately need to upgrade these steady Eddie journeymen for a bit of flair and quality .

You can pick and choose stats to paint players in a better light, for sure, but those numbers have to be there in the first place.

If you think Westwood is a "steady Eddie" with no quality then I strongly disagree as do the statistics which place him amongst the best in Europe, let alone England, for creating threat and moving the ball forwards.

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:16 pm

Add to that pace and strength

Funny you should mention pace. Came across this whilst researching for this piece. Westwood is actually one of the faster players in the Premier League.

Mattster wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:24 pm

You can pick and choose stats to paint players in a better light, for sure, but those numbers have to be there in the first place.

If you think Westwood is a "steady Eddie" with no quality then I strongly disagree as do the statistics which place him amongst the best in Europe, let alone England, for creating threat and moving the ball forwards.

I can understand your loyalty Mrs Westwood

But now, one of the best midfielders in Europe !

Suggest you visit your doctor to check you are on the right medication

Mattster wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:24 pm

You can pick and choose stats to paint players in a better light, for sure, but those numbers have to be there in the first place.

If you think Westwood is a "steady Eddie" with no quality then I strongly disagree as do the statistics which place him amongst the best in Europe, let alone England, for creating threat and moving the ball forwards.

If you seriously think Westwood is “ one of the best in Europe” because he does plenty of forward passes , you’re either completely delusional or having some kind of breakdown or both ?
He’s been decent for us ( as have most of our squad ) We’re a struggling relegation threatened prem side and while I’d keep him for his ability to play a system we desperately need upgrades in midfield /right side

Try reading what I put again, lads.

I didn't say he's one of the best midfielders in Europe, simply that he's amongst the best for creating threat and moving the ball forwards.

He could be better at a range of things and there are plenty of midfielders that are. However, at those 2 things he's amongst the best in Europe. He has quality, he's not a "steady Eddie", that's patently obvious to me. If you disagree, fair enough you're entitled to your opinion. Would be interested to hear who you'd have us sign to replace him

Mattster wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:33 pm

Funny you should mention pace. Came across this whilst researching for this piece. Westwood is actually one of the faster players in the Premier League.

IMG_20210408_203140.jpg

I am seeing red spots before my eyes with that chart

You actually show Robbie Brady being quicker and more intense than even your Ashley !

There also appears to be around another 18-20 red spots (who I presume to be other players) who show better stats than your lad in one or other disciplines but you don't put names against those ?

As others have said , you can make stats show a lot of things to your advantage

My brother in law sold a car to a Burnley first team coach, when he asked the said coach who he thought was Burnley’s best player, he said Westwood in a flash.

Must admit, I was surprised but I certainly see where he’s coming from.

Have you got John Deary's stats?

Just so we can see how good Westwood is compared to the best.

to OP

Good piece
Well done.

Love Westwood, but in this league we always seem to have a struggle finding the best partnership.

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:15 pm

I am seeing red spots before my eyes with that chart

You actually show Robbie Brady being quicker and more intense than even your Ashley !

There also appears to be around another 18-20 red spots (who I presume to be other players) who show better stats than your lad in one or other disciplines but you don't put names against those ?

As others have said , you can make stats show a lot of things to your advantage

Yeah... I didn't make that one. Thought "The Athletic" written in big bold letters on it made that pretty obvious.

But regardless, the key thing to be looking at there is his position in regards to both average lines (ie. He's above average for both).

Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:52 pm

Have you got John Deary's stats?

Just so we can see how good Westwood is compared to the best.

Don't think they collected a lot of these stats back then.

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:18 pm

One of the top 3 performing English midfielders over the last 3 years - Gareth prefers Harry Winks though which says it all

Westy has been a great signing for us but this statement is quite frankly... laughable.

Just having a chuckle at Westwood being described as a journeyman, according to Wikipedia he has played for 3 clubs in 13 years.

The thing about Westwood which has, I believe become forgotten over time, is that when he came he wasn't intended to be first choice. He was there to back up Defour who couldn't really do 90 minutes and was always liable to pick up an injury . It wasn't long after he arrived though that Defour got sidelined more or less permanently and Westwood found himself first pick every week. Also don't forget that most Villa fans would have gladly driven him to the Turf for free as they weren't too impressed! I think all things considered, especially for the money, we've done pretty well!

Mattster wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:32 pm

Yeah... I didn't make that one. Thought "The Athletic" written in big bold letters on it made that pretty obvious.

But regardless, the key thing to be looking at there is his position in regards to both average lines (ie. He's above average for both).

Not a single Man City player to be seen
Only Liverpool players on there are two of their regular subs
No Mount, Rice, Ward-Prowse, Foden or Phillips despite all being in current England squad
As for "average top speed" seem to recall some guy called Traore at Wolves who might be fairly quick
Did the Athletic miss these players names off the chart
Or did you have a full bottle of Tippex handy before posting it
At least with this chart he is not "one of the best players in Europe" but just above average
As your OP says it is in appreciation of Westy but lets see some true objectivity to your undeniable obsession with the guy
As for Brady being shown as quicker and more intense in his play than AW or any other BFC player, that brings the whole chart under scrutiny

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:51 am

Not a single Man City player to be seen
Only Liverpool players on there are two of their regular subs
No Mount, Rice, Ward-Prowse, Foden or Phillips despite all being in current England squad
As for "average top speed" seem to recall some guy called Traore at Wolves who might be fairly quick
Did the Athletic miss these players names off the chart
Or did you have a full bottle of Tippex handy before posting it
At least with this chart he is not "one of the best players in Europe" but just above average
As your OP says it is in appreciation of Westy but lets see some true objectivity to your undeniable obsession with the guy
As for Brady being shown as quicker and more intense in his play than AW or any other BFC player, that brings the whole chart under scrutiny

They're probably one of the red dots without a name or (in the case of Traore) not classed as midfielders - maybe as forwards. Why would I bother removing names? When you make these kinds of charts the software leaves out names where it can't fit them or sometimes quite randomly so I imagine that's what has happened here.

I just thought it was interesting that Westwood was above the EPL average midfielder for speed and intensity. I didn't bother putting it in the piece I wrote as it felt unnecessary but since someone brought up pace I felt it was worth sharing.

If you read the piece you'll see I'm pretty objective, I show his long pass accuracy is below average (and that he plays well over the average number) and highlight that his defensive numbers are lesser than Brownhill's.

I don't think he's one of the best midfielders in Europe (and never said as such despite your claims) but I would go as far to say he's in the top 5 central midfielders outside the big 6 in the EPL.

I'm still interested to hear who you think we should/could replace him with btw.

Mattster wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:43 am

They're probably one of the red dots without a name or (in the case of Traore) not classed as midfielders - maybe as forwards. Why would I bother removing names? When you make these kinds of charts the software leaves out names where it can't fit them or sometimes quite randomly so I imagine that's what has happened here.

I just thought it was interesting that Westwood was above the EPL average midfielder for speed and intensity. I didn't bother putting it in the piece I wrote as it felt unnecessary but since someone brought up pace I felt it was worth sharing.

If you read the piece you'll see I'm pretty objective, I show his long pass accuracy is below average (and that he plays well over the average number) and highlight that his defensive numbers are lesser than Brownhill's.

I don't think he's one of the best midfielders in Europe (and never said as such despite your claims) but I would go as far to say he's in the top 5 central midfielders outside the big 6 in the EPL.

I'm still interested to hear who you think we should/could replace him with btw.

Westwood has been a good player for us. But he is not even remotely close to being a top 5 cm outside the top 6.
Let’s not kid ourselves we arguably have some of the worst CMs in the league right now. Westwood has quality from set pieces and is progressive in his passing and Brownhill try’s hard but I think it’s quite clear we need to improve in this area moving forward.

The following CMs are outside the (traditional) top 6 are all considerably better than our CMs:

Rice, Soucek, Phillips, McGinn, Douglas Luiz, Allan, Doucoure, Davies, Anguissa, Gallagher, bissouma, Hojberg, Romeu,

That is just to name a few. Honestly some Burnley fans need to take away the bias and just realise that our team is all about the sum of there parts rather than individual brilliance.

Some Burnley fans also need to stop being so against our lot when they're doing well and the stats show it.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:13 am

The following CMs are outside the (traditional) top 6 are all considerably better than our CMs:

Rice, Soucek, Phillips, McGinn, Douglas Luiz, Allan, Doucoure, Davies, Anguissa, Gallagher, bissouma, Hojberg, Romeu,

Hard to judge CMs as it's such a diverse role but IMO...

Rice - Agreed
Soucek - Disagree, depends what you look for in a midfielder. Goal threat from set pieces and a battler but contributes very little in build up.
Phillips - Agreed
McGinn - No, looks a shadow of himself post injury so far
Douglas Luiz - No, potential but is currently bang average
Allan - No, injuries really taken their toll, looks nothing like the player he was in Serie A a few years ago
Doucoure - Disagree, again personal preference he's a goal threat and a good physical presence/presser but again contributes very little to build up
Davies - No, potential though
Anguissa - Agreed
Gallagher - No, potential though
Bissouma - Personally think he's really overrated but I'm in a minority there so could give you that one.
Hojberg - Is at a big 6 club
Romeu - No

My personal top 5 would be Tielemans, Anguissa, Rice, Phillips and Westwood. But as said, it comes down to what you look for in a midfielder, whether you prefer goal threat or defensive ability.

nyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:57 am

Westy has been a great signing for us but this statement is quite frankly... laughable.

Glad you’re amused but please explain why you think that Harry Winks is so superior - is it his Zero assists and 1 goal in 3 years in the Premier League or the fact he’s never kept his place in his side for a full season

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:40 am

Some Burnley fans also need to stop being so against our lot when they're doing well and the stats show it.

To be fair cherry picking stats to make out like we have top players isn’t the best solution either.

Westwood is a good player for us. But the suggestions that he is anything more than a decent player in a relegation threatened team is just being biased.

bfcmatt wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:40 am

Just having a chuckle at Westwood being described as a journeyman, according to Wikipedia he has played for 3 clubs in 13 years.

Just having a chuckle at thinking that describing a player as a journeyman has to mean that he's played for lots of clubs.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:55 am

To be fair cherry picking stats to make out like we have top players isn’t the best solution either.

Westwood is a good player for us. But the suggestions that he is anything more than a decent player in a relegation threatened team is just being biased.

You're biased against Burnley a lot of the time though so it's no surprise seeing your comments here.

Westwood does a great job for us, his stats show that what he does for us is comparable to players who're viewed as technically better.
Instead of being happy that we have a lad who's clearly raised his game etc, you're here whinging about the stats being used....

Its almost like you're annoyed by the facts

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:06 am

You're biased against Burnley a lot of the time though so it's no surprise seeing your comments here.

Westwood does a great job for us, his stats show that what he does for us is comparable to players who're viewed as technically better.
Instead of being happy that we have a lad who's clearly raised his game etc, you're here whinging about the stats being used....

Its almost like you're annoyed by the facts

I quite clearly stated he is a good player for us.

The OP has said he in the top 5 CMs outside the top 6. I am arguing against that because it is simply not true.

Not slating him at all just saying he not one of the best CMs in the league.

One of the arts of a top midfielder is making decisive forward passes to create a chance or make the attacking move threatening.
Many midfield searching forward passes go out of play or to the other side ie the ball moves forward but the opposition get it back again.
Westwood is dangerous taking corners has a great engine and is disciplined in his role. He deserves his place in the current Burnley side and I think he would get in other PL sides.
The graphs while interesting are limited and throw up more questions than answers.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:06 am

You're biased against Burnley a lot of the time though so it's no surprise seeing your comments here.

Westwood does a great job for us, his stats show that what he does for us is comparable to players who're viewed as technically better.
Instead of being happy that we have a lad who's clearly raised his game etc, you're here whinging about the stats being used....

Its almost like you're annoyed by the facts

On the plus side though, with Tarks & Westwood getting it today the agenda driven nonsense aimed at Brownhill is getting a break.

Mattster wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:10 pm

Try reading what I put again, lads.

I didn't say he's one of the best midfielders in Europe, simply that he's amongst the best for creating threat and moving the ball forwards.

He could be better at a range of things and there are plenty of midfielders that are. However, at those 2 things he's amongst the best in Europe. He has quality, he's not a "steady Eddie", that's patently obvious to me. If you disagree, fair enough you're entitled to your opinion. Would be interested to hear who you'd have us sign to replace him

While I take your points my “ steady eddie” quote is based around being in the best league in the world and being a regular starter rather than some low league outfit . But we’ll agree to disagree

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:54 am

Glad you’re amused but please explain why you think that Harry Winks is so superior - is it his Zero assists and 1 goal in 3 years in the Premier League or the fact he’s never kept his place in his side for a full season

"One of the top 3 performing English midfielders over the last 3 years". Give over.

nyclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:14 pm

"One of the top 3 performing English midfielders over the last 3 years". Give over.

The top performing English midfielders over the last 3 years have been Westwood, Grealish and McNeil - look it up!

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:49 pm

The top performing English midfielders over the last 3 years have been Westwood, Grealish and McNeil - look it up!

Definitely winding me up.