"I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

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Woodleyclaret
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"I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:51 pm

Sorry Sean but I do .
This was a game if won would have given us 10 points on Fulham not the gutless surrender it became

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Leisure » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:54 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:51 pm
Sorry Sean but I do .
This was a game if won would have given us 10 points on Fulham not the gutless surrender it became
How was it a gutless surrender? A good strike and a quality 2nd goal.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by SalisburyClaret » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:56 pm

I think SD threw it away the moment he didn’t double up on St. Max - 6 touches and 5 minutes later we’ve lost the game and we’re in a relegation fight

Happened the last time we played them too - so no excuse
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by thelaughingclaret » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:00 pm

We can not defend against anyone with any pace, we can not defend a counter attack. We have no pace anywhere, midfield is shocking. This is what happens when you have a squad where most of your defenders and midfielders are pushing 30 or are over 30. We made it easier for newcastle. All the had to do was defend balls into the box that our forwards are strong enough to challenge for anyway, and then hit us on the break. We can only defend when we have 11 behind the ball and that isn’t good enough.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Grumps » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:15 pm

Poor defending for second goal, and really poor not to win for a second week in a row, but you cannot describe that performance as gutless..... Well I suppose you can if you know nothing about football
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by tim_noone » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:17 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:15 pm
Poor defending for second goal, and really poor not to win for a second week in a row, but you cannot describe that performance as gutless..... Well I suppose you can if you know nothing about football
I'm sure the Newcastle keeper had more to do than ours to.

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Grumps » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:19 pm

tim_noone wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:17 pm
I'm sure the Newcastle keeper had more to do than ours to.
That's certainly my recollection

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:22 pm

So rolling over to a dross team is ok,
This was a must win game that now heaps unnecessary pressure on us for the last few games.

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by jojomk1 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:23 pm

Newcastle had been awful in the first half and you just knew they were going to up their pace (even before the subs)

We did nothing extra and started defending a lot deeper from the 46th minute which just gave them the extra room to move around

As for the second goal, you can't expect Tarks and Mee to engage ASM so far up the pitch as they also had another guy out to the right on the break

Where were Westwood and Brownhill - they are both so slow and weak

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by joey13 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:36 pm

tim_noone wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:17 pm
I'm sure the Newcastle keeper had more to do than ours to.
“This” is exactly why we did throw it away

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by hoskinsgoalatswansea » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:36 pm

Regardless of who’s to blame, I’m just so desperately disappointed that we’ve played 2 fairly poor teams in wretched form and lost them both from winning positions. See those games out and we sit on 39 points with the luxury of enjoying the last seven games without fear and maybe give the youngsters more game time.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Leisure » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:38 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:22 pm
So rolling over to a dross team is ok,
This was a must win game that now heaps unnecessary pressure on us for the last few games.
How did we roll over? 24 goal attempts to their 10. 13 corners to their 3. 433 passes to their 337. 126 attacks to their 90. Beaten by a quality strike and a great 2nd goal.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Grumps » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:43 pm

Leisure wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:38 pm
How did we roll over? 24 goal attempts to their 10. 13 corners to their 3. 433 passes to their 337. 126 attacks to their 90. Beaten by a quality strike and a great 2nd goal.
Exactly.... If that's rolling over, I give up.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Belgianclaret » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:43 pm

If there is any criticism of the manager who has served us so well (and is still doing), it would be there was no reaction whatsoever to the two (obvious and expectable) Newcastle substitutions. A slight tweak in the format may have avoided this.

In any case, the second goal was caused by committing too many players forward, leaving our centre midfield hopelessly exposed (no one left to cover after SM was played in behind Brownhill), leaving him to have a free run at our defenders

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Conroysleftfoot » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:44 pm

hoskinsgoalatswansea wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:36 pm
Regardless of who’s to blame, I’m just so desperately disappointed that we’ve played 2 fairly poor teams in wretched form and lost them both from winning positions. See those games out and we sit on 39 points with the luxury of enjoying the last seven games without fear and maybe give the youngsters more game time.
The two fairly poor teams both had their best players coming back after being out injured during the losing runs, Ings for Soton and St Maximin/Wilson for Newcastle. Yes it's disappointing but merely staying up this year will be an achievement as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Leisure » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:45 pm

Belgianclaret wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:43 pm
If there is any criticism of the manager who has served us so well (and is still doing), it would be there was no reaction whatsoever to the two (obvious and expectable) Newcastle substitutions. A slight tweak in the format may have avoided this.
Agree but hindsight is a wonderful thing! If he'd changed it and we'd got beat, then he would be criticised for changing the team when in a winning position.

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:46 pm

We will stay up but these last two performances are unacceptable and we need to improve

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Bigvince » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:46 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:51 pm
Sorry Sean but I do .
This was a game if won would have given us 10 points on Fulham not the gutless surrender it became
What a load of ballhooks!

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:46 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:15 pm
Poor defending for second goal, and really poor not to win for a second week in a row, but you cannot describe that performance as gutless..... Well I suppose you can if you know nothing about football
My word Grumps, we are in agreement.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by joey13 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:47 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:43 pm
Exactly.... If that's rolling over, I give up.
So we lost because we were the better team then :roll:

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:47 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:22 pm
So rolling over to a dross team is ok,
Rolling over is never ok but no one rolled over today so it’s not a discussion point.

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Grumps » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:48 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:46 pm
My word Grumps, we are in agreement.
Well, it is Sunday after all :lol:
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Grumps » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:50 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:47 pm
Rolling over is never ok but no one rolled over today so it’s not a discussion point.
My word ClaretTony, we are in agreement... Again :lol:

To be fair it's not normally the footballing side we disagree on too much.... Its other things.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Leisure » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:54 pm

joey13 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:47 pm
So we lost because we were the better team then :roll:
Not because we were the better team but we certainly didn't roll over. And you can be the better team but get beat!

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:56 pm

Some interesting points on here

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by tiger76 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm

What amuses me when we lose is all these OTT threads about how dire we are, we played well for most of the 1st half, took a deserved lead though Vydra, who's now really starting to show his value after a long time waiting patiently in the wings, and until the subs came on, both of whom are top players, we were in control of the match, and even after their swift double we pushed hard for an equaliser, so I'd hardly describe that as throwing it away.

Yes It's disappointing to lose from a winning position for the 2nd week in a row, but we don't have a divine right to beat these teams, and we'll play a lot worse and win, as indeed we probably have this season in some games.

Looking at the bigger picture we started the weekend 7 points clear of Fulham, and we're still 7 points clear of Fulham, and with a game in hand, so I'd certainly much rather be in our place then there's right now.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by DCWat » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm

The issue, as we’ve seen plenty of times before, is an inability to create good chances from plenty of possession.

I certainly wouldn’t call it gutless but I do think we failed to react (both on the pitch and from the manager, albeit with limited options).

4-4-2 has been hugely effective for us, but I’m wondering if it’s time to transition away from it - or at least have an alternative as an available option.

Whatever way we go, there’s a growing recruitment job needed to ensure that next season is less of a struggle. Quite what we’ll be able to do recruitment wise this summer remains to be seen - I’d hope that it might see us improving the first eleven and therefore the bench.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:01 pm

Unusually for Dyche he has 3 points at home this season out of 12 against Brighton, Fulham, Newcastle and West Brom. That’s why we are where we are.

Injuries have played a part but some of it has been attitude (West Brom in particular) and Dyche has arguably not been adventurous enough.

Today, I thought Cork could have come on. Brownhill is far inferior offensively, and when we struggled to create in the last quarter of the game, Cork’s forward passing could have created something. Similarly Taylor could have gone onto the left and allowed McNeil to play inside, again to combat them defending deep.

Has to be said though Dubrovka had a stormer. Did well coming for crosses when Wood was causing chaos. Made a great stop or two as well.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Leisure » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:05 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:01 pm
Unusually for Dyche he has 3 points at home this season out of 12 against Brighton, Fulham, Newcastle and West Brom. That’s why we are where we are.

Injuries have played a part but some of it has been attitude (West Brom in particular) and Dyche has arguably not been adventurous enough.

Today, I thought Cork could have come on. Brownhill is far inferior offensively, and when we struggled to create in the last quarter of the game, Cork’s forward passing could have created something. Similarly Taylor could have gone onto the left and allowed McNeil to play inside, again to combat them defending deep.

Has to be said though Dubrovka had a stormer. Did well coming for crosses when Wood was causing chaos. Made a great stop or two as well.
To be fair to the manager. If he had made changes when their subs came on, if we'd then got beat lots of people would be questioning why he changed it when in a winning position. Hindsight is a wonderful thing! ;)

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by joey13 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:06 pm

Leisure wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:54 pm
Not because we were the better team but we certainly didn't roll over. And you can be the better team but get beat!
Didn’t say we rolled over , last week we threw away a two goal lead this week a one goal lead , what makes it worse this week is that we were by far the better team

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by dougcollins » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:07 pm

To say their keeper did well, how many actual saves did he make - we were only on target with 4 out of 24 attempts?

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Leisure » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:08 pm

joey13 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:06 pm
Didn’t say we rolled over , last week we threw away a two goal lead this week a one goal lead , what makes it worse this week is that we were by far the better team
Joey - sorry, I didn't mean to say that you said that we rolled over but the words 'rolled over' and 'gutless' have been used by some people,which in my opinion is way OTT and unfair.
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by joey13 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:09 pm

Leisure wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:05 pm
To be fair to the manager. If he had made changes when their subs came on, if we'd then got beat lots of people would be questioning why he changed it when in a winning position. Hindsight is a wonderful thing! ;)
After seeing what Saint-Maximin did to us at St James it would have made sense to react to his introduction.

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Noblelight » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:09 pm

I feel we threw it away today. We played well in the first half and could of been 3 up. Their keeper played well today. The bit that frustrated me was the fact that we let Saint-Maximin run with the ball for his goal. As soon as he picked it up I was shouting hit him at the tv. I know that’s not nice but it’s better than what did happen. No problem with their first goal it was a quality strike.
We should of had 6 points from the last 2 games. Instead we have 0.
UTC
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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:11 pm

Leisure wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:05 pm
To be fair to the manager. If he had made changes when their subs came on, if we'd then got beat lots of people would be questioning why he changed it when in a winning position. Hindsight is a wonderful thing! ;)
Agree, there was no need then, but as the game progressed their sitting back was predictable and we needed a plan B, that is what is often lacking.

Holding a lead we are good at, chasing a game, less so. Much of that is tactical inflexibility I would suggest. We played well until when we needed that flexibility.

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Leisure » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:12 pm

joey13 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:09 pm
After seeing what Saint-Maximin did to us at St James it would have made sense to react to his introduction.
Possibly but as I've said, the manager would be open to criticism whether he did or didn't change it then if we'd lost.

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by Leisure » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:15 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:11 pm
Agree, there was no need then, but as the game progressed their sitting back was predictable and we needed a plan B, that is what is often lacking.

Holding a lead we are good at, chasing a game, less so. Much of that is tactical inflexibility I would suggest. We played well until when we needed that flexibility.
Presumably once we were behind the manager didn't feel that he had anyone on the bench who would make sufficient difference in the goalscoring area, otherwise he would have done it.

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Re: "I dont think we threw it away " Dyche comment

Post by joey13 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:18 pm

Leisure wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:12 pm
Possibly but as I've said, the manager would be open to criticism whether he did or didn't change it then if we'd lost.
We’ll agree to disagree, I don’t think Dyche worrys too much about criticism, particularly on here .
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