Dyche - Now or Never?

[jedi_master]

I realise this could go on the Ancelotti thread, the Palace thread, or one of many others - but I feel it’s a separate discussion in and of itself.

Does anyone else get the feeling this summer has shaped up to be a ‘now or never’ moment in terms of Dyche leaving Burnley (of his own accord, at least)? All of the managerial positions we have long feared to be looking for a new manager, that aren’t owned by insane owners and could well provide the sort of stable environment Dyche would be looking for after what happened at Watford, are now vacant.

I might be way off but it feels that if Dyche is not sounded out and approached this time, I’m not sure he ever will be (presumably due to his style of football). If Dyche doesn’t leave in the next few weeks, could we be seeing an Alan Curbishley-esque stint with less anxiety about him ditching us in the future?

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

If Dyche doesn’t leave this summer then he never will.

[beddie]

Time will tell. If there are approaches for him I’m sure whatever the relationship with Pace is he’ll still want to talk to other clubs. We may well agree to push the boat out for him with a really good budget but if the right offer comes for his services he’ll be off.

[ksrclaret]

I think that’s about right.

[ClaretAndBlue94]

I would be very suprised if Dyche leaves this summer. He will never have such autonomy anywhere else.

Think Everton will want a bigger name. Wolves will want someone more glamarous. Palace might not be able to attract him.

[DCWat]

No, not at all. Dyche is still relatively young in managerial terms. These jobs, and others, will come round again, numerous times.

He may, depending on how he views Pace’s longer term plans, think he’s more of a chance to do things with us than he has previously, which could in turn open up other doors in the future.

I don’t think it’s anything like now or never.

[Holmeclaret]

I would be very suprised if Dyche leaves this summer. He will never have such autonomy anywhere else.

Think Everton will want a bigger name. Wolves will want someone more glamarous. Palace might not be able to attract him.

I agree with everything you say but I think the OP is speaking more about Dyche’s perspective on things. Unless you have enormous personal loyalty towards an employer, it’s hard to work in the same place year after year as it just starts to become boring. It also starts to define who you are and your life generally. I think we all reach something of a crossroads at some time in many aspects of our lives and we either stay or move on.
I’d love him to stay for another decade but it’s up to Mr. Dyche.

[joey13]

Nothing in football or life is now or never

[Newcastleclaret93]

No, not at all. Dyche is still relatively young in managerial terms. These jobs, and others, will come round again, numerous times.

He may, depending on how he views Pace’s longer term plans, think he’s more of a chance to do things with us than he has previously, which could in turn open up other doors in the future.

I don’t think it’s anything like now or never.

I just think after reaching Europe, top 10 on a couple of occasions and keeping Burnley in the prem for 5 years. If he is not offered the chance when there are 4 clubs looking for managers. I doubt he ever will. Football snobbery at its best, but you do have to wonder if Dyche will adapt his playing style as a result.

[Boss Hogg]

Dyche has more control at BFC than he would get anywhere else. He’s extremely well paid and unusually in this business has job security ( or more than he would get elsewhere). The fans and board are very tolerant. Losing 5 games on the spin elsewhere could be career ruining but here it would be a small blot on the landscape. There’s a lot for him to like at BFC.

[NewClaret]

The number of vacancies is quite worrying, given the very small list of names that can fill them.

But I don't agree it's now or never. Managers tend not to last more than 2 years in the current climate, so he could stay here another two years and still have the option on every managerial post in the prem. Every opportunity available this summer will come again.

Hopefully Dyche will value what he has built here sufficiently not to want to throw it away for a club that change their manager every ten minutes, and will be excited to work alongside a more ambitious chairman in building the club.

[jedi_master]

No, not at all. Dyche is still relatively young in managerial terms. These jobs, and others, will come round again, numerous times.

He may, depending on how he views Pace’s longer term plans, think he’s more of a chance to do things with us than he has previously, which could in turn open up other doors in the future.

I don’t think it’s anything like now or never.

Fully agree with what you’re saying, my post was trying to say that (in my opinion) if he is not the cup of Tea of these clubs now, I don’t know if he ever will be. All the discussion around the likes of Steve Cooper, Eddie Howe, Frank Lampard, Scott Parker, Graham Potter etc due to their perceived ‘attractive’ football will be the case at the next job that comes up too.

[arise_sir_charge]

Of the clubs looking and those likely to be looking, I think that the only ones interested are likely to the Palace.

I have long through that when Sean Dyche leaves Burnley it is more likely to be a ‘step down’ to something he may see as a project ie a big club, fallen on hard times with a new owner or something along those lines rather than something that would be seen as an immediate step up.

[DCWat]

I just think after reaching Europe, top 10 on a couple of occasions and keeping Burnley in the prem for 5 years. If he is not offered the chance when there are 4 clubs looking for managers. I doubt he ever will. Football snobbery at its best, but you do have to wonder if Dyche will adapt his playing style as a result.

I think he could and would adapt his playing style, with better players.

As a Chairman looking to recruit, particularly for a team wanting to play a different way, it might though be seen as a bit of a gamble.

Whilst they shouldn't be influenced, I’d bet plenty take fan perception on board, when making a decision.

Had we been able to back Dyche more in recent years, I suspect we’d be playing defensively, but with more pace and guile going forward.

[warksclaret]

I have come to the opinion that SD will feel more support from AP than he has with MG for the past 3 or so years. Being confident of greater recruitment support he will feel capable of a top 10 finish which will strengthen his CV. At present he may be viewed by many clubs as the manager who kept BFC , one position above relegation. They say you are as good as your last game

[Spijed]

Fully agree with what you’re saying, my post was trying to say that (in my opinion) if he is not the cup of Tea of these clubs now, I don’t know if he ever will be. All the discussion around the likes of Steve Cooper, Eddie Howe, Frank Lampard, Scott Parker, Graham Potter etc due to their perceived ‘attractive’ football will be the case at the next job that comes up too.

David Moyes has managed to reinvent himself this season after a few years on the managerial merry-go-round so I wouldn't say it's now or never for SD.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think he could and would adapt his playing style, with better players.

As a Chairman looking to recruit, particularly for a team wanting to play a different way, it might though be seen as a bit of a gamble.

Whilst they shouldn't be influenced, I’d bet plenty take fan perception on board, when making a decision.

Had we been able to back Dyche more in recent years, I suspect we’d be playing defensively, but with more pace and guile going forward.

Do you think we ever will back Dyche more than we have?

We have spent 170m on transfers in five seasons. On average 35m a season in transfer fees. I just don’t see how we can physically improve on that, to get the better football being discussed.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Do you think we ever will back Dyche more than we have?

We have spent 170m on transfers in five seasons. On average 35m a season in transfer fees. I just don’t see how we can physically improve on that, to get the better football being discussed.

What have we recouped?

[jedi_master]

David Moyes has managed to reinvent himself this season after a few years on the managerial merry-go-round so I wouldn't say it's now or never for SD.

I believe Dyche would indeed reinvent himself, he’s more than capable of that and his football would alter with more resources. I think we all know that, I’m not convinced owners of other clubs (and their fans) are.

[DCWat]

Fully agree with what you’re saying, my post was trying to say that (in my opinion) if he is not the cup of Tea of these clubs now, I don’t know if he ever will be. All the discussion around the likes of Steve Cooper, Eddie Howe, Frank Lampard, Scott Parker, Graham Potter etc due to their perceived ‘attractive’ football will be the case at the next job that comes up too.

Which I think is why, subject to some backing, we might start to see some progression in our style of play. The past few years he’s had little opportunity to push the team on, by way of numbers or quality.

If he gets that backing (and it’s a big if) his suitors may well be knocking that bit louder in the future. Of course, if what I’m saying has any element of fact in it, there’s a lot on Dyche himself to deliver on that.

Of course it could be complete nonsense

[Newcastleclaret93]

What have we recouped?

Approx 50m I imagine with Keane and Gray.

[DCWat]

Do you think we ever will back Dyche more than we have?

We have spent 170m on transfers in five seasons. On average 35m a season in transfer fees. I just don’t see how we can physically improve on that, to get the better football being discussed.

Identifying players ahead of their value sky rocketing. Utilising the loan and free transfer markets, bringing quality through from the academy, shopping in cheaper markets, selling players for significant profits.

There are lots of things we can do better (very easy for me to type that of course) and that’s outside of new and improved commercial activities.

Some years we may need to stretch finances, others we may need to reign it back in. I think looking at an average figure per year might be a little misleading.

We mat have to work harder and cleverer to compete, but I do think we can do it, particularly if Dyche and Pace can develop a good relationship.

[bobinho]

I just think after reaching Europe, top 10 on a couple of occasions and keeping Burnley in the prem for 5 years. If he is not offered the chance when there are 4 clubs looking for managers. I doubt he ever will. Football snobbery at its best, but you do have to wonder if Dyche will adapt his playing style as a result.

His playing style? Bit of a myth that really. Certainly the last lot of games even with his 4-4-2 we have played some nice football. And certainly over the last few years (at limited times I admit) we have also played some nice football. The players are his limiting factor in how we play... almost every one of them are technically second best to their opposite number in almost every game, so playing like peps boys isn’t possible (thankfully).

[dibraidio]

Honestly, if I was used to watching entertaining football I wouldn't be overly excited about Dyche coming to my club.

After qualifying for Europe our wage bill went from 63m to 93m with no noticeable improvement in the squad and no evolution in the style of play. Palace's wage bill was 120m for last season is there any guarantee that another 27m would see him bring in more flair? I don't think that's guaranteed.

Dyche has never proved that he can manage big egos, squad rotation or a cup run. He's still got a lot to prove but there's no reason why he can't do that in the next 15 years or more. For now he has an interesting challenge at Burnley and a financial package that will set him and his family up for life. As a few pundits have said why swap a "job for life" for what could be a matter of weeks at another club.

I would say that Pope and Tarkowski are more in a now or never position than Dyche. At 29 years old the clock is ticking on those big moves or international ambitions.

[IanMcL]

I would expect Mr Dyche and Mr Woan and Loughlan have a plan in their head, which will end in retirement or semi retirement.

Burnley is in that plan, providing they can have a realistic expectancy of support, over years.

If they are given the green light, the squad will be strengthened and the overall quality upped. A new 'Defour' would arrive, to add to the control and creativity.

The club facilities will improve and the international profile enhanced. This will make the manager and his team more significant in world football.

The legacy will be clear, when they leave us. We will all want to shake their hand and wish them well for restoring Burnley FC on the world stage.

The size of the town will no longer be relevant to its fortunes.

We will be key to the Prem.

Up the Clarets. Long may the Dyche era continue.

[Newcastleclaret93]

His playing style? Bit of a myth that really. Certainly the last lot of games even with his 4-4-2 we have played some nice football. And certainly over the last few years (at limited times I admit) we have also played some nice football. The players are his limiting factor in how we play... almost every one of them are technically second best to their opposite number in almost every game, so playing like peps boys isn’t possible (thankfully).

It’s not a myth at all. It’s pretty well known across the country that we play some of the worst football in the league.
No problem with that as it is really effective. Given that people like Howe, Cooper, Lampard etc... are in high demand for there playing style, Dyche must be wondering if he adapts his style to play more attractive football would it improve his career prospects.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Honestly, if I was used to watching entertaining football I wouldn't be overly excited about Dyche coming to my club.

After qualifying for Europe our wage bill went from 63m to 93m with no noticeable improvement in the squad and no evolution in the style of play. Palace's wage bill was 120m for last season is there any guarantee that another 27m would see him bring in more flair? I don't think that's guaranteed.

Dyche has never proved that he can manage big egos, squad rotation or a cup run. He's still got a lot to prove but there's no reason why he can't do that in the next 15 years or more. For now he has an interesting challenge at Burnley and a financial package that will set him and his family up for life. As a few pundits have said why swap a "job for life" for what could be a matter of weeks at another club.

I would say that Pope and Tarkowski are more in a now or never position than Dyche. At 29 years old the clock is ticking on those big moves or international ambitions.

You can take a lot of that and apply it to Potter, Howe, Parker etc.
They're still being linked to certain jobs ahead of Dyche.

[tiger76]

Approx 50m I imagine with Keane and Gray.

Those are our headline sales, but we've also sold the likes of Sam Vokes & Tome Heaton for a good profit in recent years. Equally we've also taken some big hits on players going, Brady & Hendrick were signed for big fees and both went on frees, the problem for is in the market isn't necessarily finding transfer fees, it's been and will continue to be salaries, and that's where most of our PL wealth is spent.

[dibraidio]

You can take a lot of that and apply it to Potter, Howe, Parker etc.
They're still being linked to certain jobs ahead of Dyche.

I'll bet none of them are asking for 3m compensation plus 4m wages plus 3m survival bonus.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It’s not a myth at all. It’s pretty well known across the country that we play some of the worst football in the league.
No problem with that as it is really effective. Given that people like Howe, Cooper, Lampard etc... are in high demand for there playing style, Dyche must be wondering if he adapts his style to play more attractive football would it improve his career prospects.

We play effective football, it isn't the worst by a long shot.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'll bet none of them are asking for 3m compensation plus 4m wages plus 3m survival bonus.

Its Burnley asking for compo.
I'll be a bit surprised if Brighton don't have something similar, in fact I'd say its downright stupid.

Wages - he's proven he's worth that.

Survival bonus - Big Sam has always had one, again wouldn't be surprised if several managers have it and again, if they don't they're downright stupid and need a better agent

[Holmeclaret]

I would expect Mr Dyche and Mr Woan and Loughton have a plan in their head, which will end in retirement or semi retirement.

Burnley is in that plan, providing they can have a realistic expectancy of support, over years.

If they are given the green light, the squad will be strengthened and the overall quality upped. A new 'Defour' would arrive, to add to the control and creativity.

The club facilities will improve and the international profile enhanced. This will make the manager and his team more significant in world football.

The legacy will be clear, when they leave us. We will all want to shake their hand and wish them well for restoring Burnley FC on the world stage.

The size of the town will no longer be relevant to its fortunes.

We will be key to the Prem.

Up the Clarets. Long may the Dyche era continue.

Would love for things to turn this way

[Newcastleclaret93]

We play effective football, it isn't the worst by a long shot.

Not from our point of view. I am talking about how our football appears to the rest of the football world.

We are known as Brexit Fc, Brexit ball, Dinosaur football externally.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Those are our headline sales, but we've also sold the likes of Sam Vokes & Tome Heaton for a good profit in recent years. Equally we've also taken some big hits on players going, Brady & Hendrick were signed for big fees and both went on frees, the problem for is in the market isn't necessarily finding transfer fees, it's been and will continue to be salaries, and that's where most of our PL wealth is spent.

The point still stands that we have spent 170m on transfers over the last 5 years and approx 380m on player wages.

Will Dyche get more than that in the next 5 years? I just can’t see it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Not from our point of view. I am talking about how our football appears to the rest of the football world.

We are known as Brexit Fc, Brexit ball, Dinosaur football externally.

Yes and Darren Bent called our manager a racist, big deal when clearly he isn't.

Dyche has proven he can get promoted out of the championship and build a team to either get into Europe with the right backing, or to survive in the PL with some very clever transfers.
Also shown him and his team can develop players and make them into international players.

He's proven he can operate within a budget, has beaten pretty much every team in this league and some of the top ones by a decent scoreline and handles himself well with the media.

Those who complain about our style outside of Burnley are generally either wind up merchants in the media, or they're the sort of fans of other clubs who believe everyone should play like City.

He's highly respected and I suspect several clubs have cast their eyes at him, but the main stumbling block right now will be the financial cost.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The point still stands that we have spent 170m on transfers over the last 5 years and approx 380m on player wages.

Will Dyche get more than that in the next 5 years? I just can’t see it.

This ties in with the aim of the new owners.
If they grow the club accordingly then yes Dyche will get all that and more.

[Grimsdale]

Not from our point of view. I am talking about how our football appears to the rest of the football world.

We are known as Brexit Fc, Brexit ball, Dinosaur football externally.

Do you really care what other people think about how we play the game (especially when they will readily admit they rarely watch our games)?

We're also known as a team of dirty thugs, despite finishing second in the Fair Play table this year.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Do you really care what other people think about how we play the game (especially when they will readily admit they rarely watch our games)?

We're also known as a team of dirty thugs, despite finishing second in the Fair Play table this year.

I don’t really care. But I am sure Dyche does when there a lesser managers getting better opportunities than him.

[tiger76]

The point still stands that we have spent 170m on transfers over the last 5 years and approx 380m on player wages.

Will Dyche get more than that in the next 5 years? I just can’t see it.

If he was to go to say Everton, then quite possibly he would have a bigger budget, however he would also have a demanding support expecting instant success, plus he probably wouldn't enjoy the autonomy which he's afforded at Burnley, and I get the impression this will be a major factor in Sean's decision whether to take the plunge or not.

But I do agree that we and SD do appear to have reached a crossroads, as without major investment in the playing side we're always going to be in danger of relegation, and at this stage of his career does SD really want to be managing in the Championship, also if we should suffer the drop again that might dissuade potential suitors from courting Sean, so it could be a case of striking while the iron's hot from his POV, as who knows when these opportunities will present themselves again.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Yes and Darren Bent called our manager a racist, big deal when clearly he isn't.

Dyche has proven he can get promoted out of the championship and build a team to either get into Europe with the right backing, or to survive in the PL with some very clever transfers.
Also shown him and his team can develop players and make them into international players.

He's proven he can operate within a budget, has beaten pretty much every team in this league and some of the top ones by a decent scoreline and handles himself well with the media.

Those who complain about our style outside of Burnley are generally either wind up merchants in the media, or they're the sort of fans of other clubs who believe everyone should play like City.

He's highly respected and I suspect several clubs have cast their eyes at him, but the main stumbling block right now will be the financial cost.

I appreciate all of that. My point is how can a manager that has achieved all of the above not be getting poached?

Cost surely can’t be an issue, especially when compensation is only 3m. For most of these clubs that’s a drop in the ocean.

[Newcastleclaret93]

If he was to go to say Everton, then quite possibly he would have a bigger budget, however he would also have a demanding support expecting instant success, plus he probably wouldn't enjoy the autonomy which he's afforded at Burnley, and I get the impression this will be a major factor in Sean's decision whether to take the plunge or not.

But I do agree that we and SD do appear to have reached a crossroads, as without major investment in the playing side we're always going to be in danger of relegation, and at this stage of his career does SD really want to be managing in the Championship, also if we should suffer the drop again that might dissuade potential suitors from courting Sean, so it could be a case of striking while the iron's hot from his POV, as who knows when these opportunities will present themselves again.

I see Dyche as a very ambitious bloke. I think he has confidence in his ability to be a success at a bigger club.
Don’t think the job safety aspect comes into it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I appreciate all of that. My point is how can a manager that has achieved all of the above not be getting poached?

Cost surely can’t be an issue, especially when compensation is only 3m. For most of these clubs that’s a drop in the ocean.

That's just for the manager, that doesn't include his backroom staff and the majority of managers take a team with them when they change jobs.
If we haven't got clauses for the likes of Woan, Mercer etc then I'd be a little surprised.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

at this stage of his career does SD really want to be managing in the Championship

Pretty sure we've had some absolute idiots on here claiming he's off to the likes of Derby, Forest etc

[Chester Perry]

I have long through that when Sean Dyche leaves Burnley it is more likely to be a ‘step down’ to something he may see as a project ie a big club, fallen on hard times with a new owner or something along those lines rather than something that would be seen as an immediate step up.

that would be my take, and he would require a level of control that is very rare these days - the 4 prime candidates are Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Nottingham Forest and Derby - it will be interesting to watch Sunderland's new owners over the next season or so, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby are still basket cases and the risks Mel has been willing to put the club under just to get rid does not bode well at Derby either. Chris Hughton is in at Forest, straightening them out if the owner will allow.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Amongst teenage gobshites on the likes of twitter. Why are you so fragile you care what nomarks say online ?

I’m not fragile and I’m not bothered, just merely highlighting how our club is viewed externally. As DJ has already highlighted a popular pundit believes our club/manager is racist. Do you not think this affects Dyches decision making in regards to his future?

[aclaretinstevenage]

Since when was Darren Bent a popular pundit?

[claretonthecoast1882]

I’m not fragile and I’m not bothered, just merely highlighting how our club is viewed externally. As DJ has already highlighted a popular pundit believes our club/manager is racist. Do you not think this affects Dyches decision making in regards to his future?

Darren Bent made a comment then back tracked immediately once shown up.

Do I think this comes into any thoughts Dyche has - in a word No. He isns't that stupid.

Do you believe when the vast majority of people in the game be it ex pros, current managers, pundits and presenters talk about him very will and 0.01% make a comment without any intelligent thought, do you really think anybody at the club gives a **** about that person and their wrong opinion ?

You seem to worry a lot about what people might think or say for someone who isn't fragile or bothered.

[martin_p]

Yes and Darren Bent called our manager a racist

No he didn’t.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Darren Bent made a comment then back tracked immediately once shown up.

Do I think this comes into any thoughts Dyche has - in a word No. He isns't that stupid.

Do you believe when the vast majority of people in the game be it ex pros, current managers, pundits and presenters talk about him very will and 0.01% make a comment without any intelligent thought, do you really think anybody at the club gives a **** about that person and their wrong opinion ?

You seem to worry a lot about what people might think or say for someone who isn't fragile or bothered.

Ok since clearly you are a football god that gets everything right.

Please explain why Dyche who has achieved miracles at this club has not been poached by any clubs? It clearly has nothing to do with the general football opinion of Dyche and his team.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Ok since clearly you are a football god that gets everything right.

Please explain why Dyche who has achieved miracles at this club has not been poached by any clubs? It clearly has nothing to do with the general football opinion of Dyche and his team.

Highlighting you as a bit of a Mavis doesn't make me a football god (whatever that means) even now you are sounding a bit upset.

As for Dyche, some clubs can't attract him, some clubs can't afford him, some clubs feel they need to get a "big name" to appease their fan base and some clubs are at a different level to him.

Will he be here forever - No
Will he leave in the near future - quite possibly
Is there any point worrying about it - no
Will the club continue once he does leave - yes