Matchday officials, VAR and accountability

[jdrobbo]

Fair enough

[Jakubclaret]

It cannot be interpreted that it was not intentional he was attempting to deliberately punch the ball clear
The non intentional rule can surely only be applied to a hand ball

I don’t know like I say that was the reason that was given on the radio that’s all I do know & that reason is the only reason that makes sense to me, I’m in the dark just as much as everybody else but what I can safely say is that none of us have the benefits of the VAR monitors & the ability to be able to pause, zoom & rewind at will, we see what we see sat down hundreds of yards away or in my case not even that with some headphones strapped to my ear.

[CaptJohn]

Can you ask if we can have more accountability for VAR along with the introduction of stocks outside a ground. My idea is if an official gets a VAR decision clearly wrong then the said official will be put into the stocks outside the ground, where his incompetence caused that team to be disadvantaged. There will be a wide selection of out of date soft fruits and vegetables on hand for the supporters to vent their displeasure from a range of 10M. The event will be filmed and highlights shown on MOTD. I believe this will bring more focus to match day officials.

[Colburn_Claret]

I haven't read the thread as just joined it, so may be repeating others.
My shout is what is the difference between what Krul did, and having a high foot....It's dangerous play. If he had just gone to catch the ball fair enough, but he didn't he chose to punch and wiped out Vyds. It was far more dangerous than the penalty Ben Mee gave away in the dying seconds at the Emirates, for an alleged high foot.

I'm beginning to bore myself as I keep repeating it, it's not VAR, our officials are just terrible. Not just against Burnley, they are just crap.
Werner had a goal disallowed yesterday, for a foul committed 18 secs before he scored. I haven't had a stop watch on it, but how long after JBG was fouled did Vardy equalise? They make it up off the cuff, as and when they feel like it, and nobody holds them to account.
As long as it is allowed to continue, then football and particularly teams of Burnley's stature, will suffer.

[Silkyskills1]

Could of played for another 2 hours we weren't scoring

Agreed. But that's hardly the point.

[buzzclarets79]

Always thought Lee Mason was the biggest k**b going regarding Burnley matches, but Friend has taken it to a whole new level yesterday, couldn’t wait to book our players, how Krul never got booked for time wasting from the 8th min is beyond me.
I do feel like there should be a way for us the fans to log complaints against refs, as this muppet will no doubt be in charge of another prem game after the international break.

[IanMcL]

Friend was deadful today. Terrible. Besides the 2 or 3 penalties not given he set the precedent for bookings by booking Tarks early. A warning would have done. VAR is hopeless as we saw in the Arsenal match. Friend gave possibly the worst refereeing performance of the season today. He was dire.

Are you his mate or something?

He was nowhere near that good!

He was a biased, anti Burnley, b'tard, who did his best to see nothing and achieved it. He deserves sorting!

[IanMcL]

We just don't matter to the prem and their puppet officials.

Better out than in, is their thought and yet we are a founding league club, a football town with a rich and diverse history.

[arise_sir_charge]

In respect of VAR, had Friend given a penalty would it have been overturned? No.

So, how can you have two different decisions for the exact same incident? It’s either a penalty or it isn’t.

As for Jakub trying to be clever about fans being sat 100 yards away, we are talking now having had the benefit of seeing TV replays like the VAR official, so stop being a clown for the sake of it.

[RalphCoatesComb]

As Sean Dyche said in his post-match interview, we don't get penalties. We give penalties away. That's just the way it is

[Spike]

Whilst we have the same inept referees or retired referees doing VAR there will continue to be individuals who do not uphold the laws of the game
It has happened to often to Burnley to be a coincidence!
I can’t think of a better word for it than cheating
VAR was supposed to correct wrongdoing . They should ban Guide dogs from VAR headquarters!

[beddie]

Who are the VAR team beholden to?

[Spike]

Are you his mate or something?

He was nowhere near that good!

He was a biased, anti Burnley, b'tard, who did his best to see nothing and achieved it. He deserves sorting! Hi

How did he not control the time wasting of Krul . His next job will be robbing old ladies with phone scams

[Hipper]

I liken the Krul challenge to this one by Mane on Ederson a few years ago.

In both cases the offending players had no intention to commit harm but their actions did or could have caused serious injury.

'A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:'

'Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed.'

'Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned.'

'Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off.'

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... misconduct

From this, I would say both cases were 'reckless', but did not use 'excessive force'. Clearly Friend and VAR didn't even think it was careless.

Therefore yesterday should have been a caution and penalty. It also means Mane should not have been sent off.

[Hipper]

I doubt Friend or VAR was biased or cheating but rather had a bad day. Didn't Norwich fans have some grievances too? And most think highly of him!

https://forum.pinkun.com/index.php?/top ... in-friend/

[Rileybobs]

I liken the Krul challenge to this one by Mane on Ederson a few years ago.

In both cases the offending players had no intention to commit harm but their actions did or could have caused serious injury.

'A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:'

'Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed.'

'Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned.'

'Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off.'

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... misconduct

From this, I would say both cases were 'reckless', but did not use 'excessive force'. Clearly Friend and VAR didn't even think it was careless.

Therefore yesterday should have been a caution and penalty. It also means Mane should not have been sent off.

But it was 100% serious foul play;

'A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.'

...which is a red card offence. I don't think there can be a credible argument that Krul's challenge didn't endanger the safety of Vydra.

[BLH_Claret]

This was the most interesting post I saw, Taverhem High School just happens to be in Norwich!


A friend in need is a friend indeed! Great performance from my favourite ref. He's a decent fella, unlike some of them.

“In his earlier refereeing days it wasn't unheard of for him to be out in town after a game, looking for a pub that was showing rugby (He's a big Leicester Tigers fan). Too high profile for that now.

Worth noting that he was involved in the middle or on the line for our three pr-season friendlies the season before last (Atalanta etc). It's nice that we have good rapport with him and I am sure he respects the club.

I wonder if it helps that he attended Taverham High School?”

[boatshed bill]

I’m a goalkeeper and I don’t think I’ve ever hit anyone in the head. However, I don’t think that was a red card offence. There was no deliberate intent there: it was a clear attempt to punch the ball, BUT he messed up and punched (fouled) our man. It was 100% a foul.

You should have played in my era.
Punching centre forwards was all the rage, as was CFs trying to knock the keeper and ball into the net
Nobody I knew then ever really got badly hurt and goalkeeping was great fun

[firstclaret]

Can we have an expected points table to show which teams have suffered/profited from VAR decisions and another one to show expected ball in play minutes?

Then can you ask how soon VAR can be binned.

Thanks

[Devils_Advocate]

I doubt Friend or VAR was biased or cheating but rather had a bad day. Didn't Norwich fans have some grievances too? And most think highly of him!

https://forum.pinkun.com/index.php?/top ... in-friend/

This just highlights the problem lies more with biased fans than bad referees. Had we gone to Norwich and all the circumstances and decisions been reversed the majority on here would be singing his praises as a good strong ref not standing for the home team and fans nonsense.

Personally I think we should have got one pen (the punch one) and the clip on Vydra just outside the box was a foul but for all the other close decisions (including the bookings) then time and time again he got himself in a great position and got the decisions right.

[Lancasterclaret]

Worth mentioning that if we do go down this season, we'll go down because we are one of the three worst teams in the league, not because of VAR or referees

Still think its a pen btw, but we really do need to up our performance, intensity and creative levels for us to do well this season

[Hipper]

This just highlights the problem lies more with biased fans than bad referees. Had we gone to Norwich and all the circumstances and decisions been reversed the majority on here would be singing his praises as a good strong ref not standing for the home team and fans nonsense.

Personally I think we should have got one pen (the punch one) and the clip on Vydra just outside the box was a foul but for all the other close decisions (including the bookings) then time and time again he got himself in a great position and got the decisions right.

We did didn't we two seasons ago.

[Devils_Advocate]

We did didn't we two seasons ago.

I struggle to remember two weeks ago never mind two years!

[SurreyClaret]

Hi Tony,

My questions would be : -

1. Why is the Premier League VAR so controversial/inconsistent versus the VAR at the Euro’s, when it was widely commended for its accuracy by the same sets of fans.

2. Why, when there is so much money in football, and these decisions can make huge differences to clubs financially, can more money not be devoted to getting this right. Prime example for me is the boxing at the Olympic Games, where they have worked hard to eliminate the controversy seen in previous Olympics by using more independent judges, so that bias, corruption and mistakes are far less likely. To me, having 4 people judging plus the referee seems a logical move - they have a set time to make a decision and majority votes counts.

3. When are they going to admit that this clear and obvious error step is the wrong approach? For me it is actually just adding another level of subjectivity (now we have to not only decide if the decision is right or wrong, but whether it’s also clearly wrong enough to change a decision).

Based on the above, my advice would be just go back to referees and former referees making a Yes/No decision, with the majority decision deciding, but with more people making those decision (sat apart so they can’t influence each other).

Simples.

[IanMcL]

Because there are desired outcomes in the prem.