Jack the Ripper

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:47 am

Opinions please on who do you think the jack ripper was & what actually happened?

eastanglianclaret · Post by **eastanglianclaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:54 am

At the last count there were over 200 names put forward so there are a lot to choose from although many are utterly ridiculous. There are a number of good theories in what for me is the greatest whodunnit of all time. Although there are several other good ones, I find the James Hardiman theory very plausible. Means, motive, opportunity, they are all apparent in his case. If by 'what actually happened' you mean 'why', then in Hardiman's case he appears to have been a bit of a psycho with a vendetta against women due to the death of his daughter which he blamed on his wife..... www.casebook.org is a good source of info on The Whitechapel Murders and some of the suspects.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:52 am

John the Kipper.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:09 am

Definitely one for pstotto here

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:39 am

I suspect it was solved long ago, but kept quiet because it's good for business and generating interest in London etc.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:45 am

Yeah, right.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:02 am

Can I nominate Simon Garner please.

I'm pretty sure he won't have any alibi's.

ALP · Post by **ALP** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:24 am

Aaron Kosminski

https://www.history.com/news/has-jack-t ... n-revealed

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:52 am

ALP wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:24 am
Aaron Kosminski

https://www.history.com/news/has-jack-t ... n-revealed

Very plausible.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:59 am

Topical

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:59 am

When we've identified him, can we have a vote on his sentence?

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:22 am

Time the final victim was identified as the body pulled from the Elwood foundations - it was definitely Simon Garner, in Whitechapel and a banana was the murder weapon.

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:35 am

The Kosminski link was created using facts from the time with modern investigation methods. An intriguing watch, hosted by Emilia Fox, available on the BBC iPlayer.

As stated above, it is a very plausible conclusion, although of course, we will never know for sure.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:06 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:59 am
When we've identified him, can we have a vote on his sentence?

That would be a great idea, and where better to start than St James Park, Newcastle.
The huge crowd, foaming at the mouth, could all vote on the sentence, (flogging or death), and then the Saudis could carry it out on the pitch.
I think this is why one or two posters on the other thread are so enthusiastic about a Saudi takeover at Turf Moor.
Just imagine the attendances we'd get if we paraded a few "adultresses" round the pitch at half time, voted on their sentence, and then carried it out.

HahaYeah · Post by **HahaYeah** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:40 pm

Kosminski.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:45 pm

Zom Zom wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:35 am
The Kosminski link was created using facts from the time with modern investigation methods. An intriguing watch, hosted by Emilia Fox, available on the BBC iPlayer.

As stated above, it is a very plausible conclusion, although of course, we will never know for sure.

Not a chance in holy hell it was Kosminski , the tv show was fine but all set up to slot in AK as the suspect . He was a 5”7 weakling ,Yiddish speaking public masturbating tramp who foraged for food in the gutters and was never known to have ever worked in England . The chances of someone in this state not being clearly identified and known to the local brasses is untenable . AK lived peacefully and placidly in leavesden hatch asylum until 1919 . There’s no known pictures or drawings of him either .

Vintage Claret · Post by **Vintage Claret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:22 pm

Francis Tumblety?
https://www.casebook.org/suspects/tumblety.html

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:22 pm

In the 1887 London phone book, there were only four people called "Ripper" and only one with the initials "J.T." I suspect it was him.

He was ex-directory in the 1888 phone book, which I believe is what threw the police off the scent.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:41 pm

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:45 pm
Not a chance in holy hell it was Kosminski , the tv show was fine but all set up to slot in AK as the suspect . He was a 5”7 weakling ,Yiddish speaking public masturbating tramp who foraged for food in the gutters and was never known to have ever worked in England . The chances of someone in this state not being clearly identified and known to the local brasses is untenable . AK lived peacefully and placidly in leavesden hatch asylum until 1919 . There’s no known pictures or drawings of him either .

Sounds like the entire male population Blackburn for Yiddish though read gibberish.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:43 pm

History Channel my arse.

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:52 pm

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:45 pm
Not a chance in holy hell it was Kosminski , the tv show was fine but all set up to slot in AK as the suspect . He was a 5”7 weakling ,Yiddish speaking public masturbating tramp who foraged for food in the gutters and was never known to have ever worked in England . The chances of someone in this state not being clearly identified and known to the local brasses is untenable . AK lived peacefully and placidly in leavesden hatch asylum until 1919 . There’s no known pictures or drawings of him either .

We’ll never know, but the experts sway towards him. He did have violent history though, behind closed doors. It’s all conjecture, but interesting.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:37 pm

Zom Zom wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:52 pm
We’ll never know, but the experts sway towards him. He did have violent history though, behind closed doors. It’s all conjecture, but interesting.

We’ll certainly never know ,though AK had no history of violence at all ,the only recorded violent act was when he “ took a knife and waved it at his sister” . This was when they had him commited for the 3rd and final occasion to Colney hatch ( local nuthouse ) . In his 30 yrs inside the only single occasion of note was “ while agitated raised a chair “ . The whole “ dna saga” was also an incredible steaming pile of shoite. That said AK is a rather more valid suspect than many of the lurid , preposterous and fantastical “ suspects “ as in he lived in the east end, was insane , disliked women and was known to the authorities for his incessant “ self abuse “He was commited insane 2 yrs after the last murder though .

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:43 pm

Last really interesting theory I saw was that the Ripper was Canadian, returned to Canada as the Whitechapel murders ended and shortly after a Ripper started attacking in Canada and Northern states… cannot remember his name though.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:14 pm

What about Prince Albert Victor, Victoria’s grandson. Did not they keep him locked in an attic somewhere?

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:20 pm

Another theory is H H Holmes who devised a ‘death house’ where people would just disappear/fall to their deaths etc.

Intriguing!

HahaYeah · Post by **HahaYeah** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:34 pm

Prince Albert was proven to be in Balmoral at the time of the killings.

The two leading officers on the JR case - Dr Robert Anderson head of CID and Chief Inspector Swanson both made it known via memoirs that Kosminsky was the killer.

Terrier · Post by **Terrier** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:39 pm

Andrew said he was in pizza hut!

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:18 pm

HahaYeah wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:34 pm
Prince Albert was proven to be in Balmoral at the time of the killings.

The two leading officers on the JR case - Dr Robert Anderson head of CID and Chief Inspector Swanson both made it known via memoirs that Kosminsky was the killer.

But didn't charge him for it?

HahaYeah · Post by **HahaYeah** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:43 pm

Apparently they couldn't get a witness id on him,there was a witness called Israel Schwarz who saw Kominski killing one of the ladies but he refused to name him to the investigators.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:51 pm

Zom Zom wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:20 pm
Another theory is H H Holmes who devised a ‘death house’ where people would just disappear/fall to their deaths etc.

Intriguing!

That bloke was far more interesting than the Ripper for me; he piled up victims due to his booby trapped hotel rooms. He had it all set up like a processing plant. As for him being the Ripper, not impossible; indeed he has been linked to the Canada Ripper (I mention above) and therefore almost by default to Jack the Ripper.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:21 pm

HahaYeah wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:34 pm
Prince Albert was proven to be in Balmoral at the time of the killings.

The two leading officers on the JR case - Dr Robert Anderson head of CID and Chief Inspector Swanson both made it known via memoirs that Kosminsky was the killer.

Anderson was sunning himself in Switzerland and god knows where on sick leave for almost the entire duration of the Whitechapel murders .
Funny how took 20 odd yrs for Anderson of all people to bring the “old polish jew “ act into play . And worth noting Aberline thought it was George Hutchinson , Monroe thought it Ostrog , Littlechild thought Tumblety and Mcnaugten prefered Druitt, and that’s just for starters .
It’s clearly no one who has ever been a suspect ,and so much info lost/ destroyed / stolen etc over the yrs ,we’ll likely never know . Wouldn’t suprise if he never existed at all

worf · Post by **worf** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:48 pm

I once watched a program about the ripper and many theories as to the culprit was and one "ripperologist" said
" on the day of reckoning god will say - step forward so and so Jack The Ripper and we all will go Who?

holycustard · Post by **holycustard** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:21 pm

It was Professor plum in the dinning room with the candlestick.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:25 pm

holycustard wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:21 pm
It was Professor plum in the dinning room with the candlestick.

Nahhhh

Twas the Butler what did it ...

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:41 pm

Footage has been found of Dick Van Dyke acting very suspiciously, like he was disguising his accent and leaping from chimm- chimerney, while wearing black makeup up in the area.Co-incidence? Judge for yourself

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:19 pm

If only the Ripper had had access to counselling............

eastanglianclaret · Post by **eastanglianclaret** » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:29 am

Kosminski has been the bookie’s favourite but, for many reasons, not least the good points made by AlargeClaret above, I’ve never believed this. The provenance of the shawl and also the DNA evidence have been questioned, if not discredited by many experts since the Edwards book was published. I don’t really want to know who did it! I enjoy the chase and reading about the possibilities. The subject fascinates me. I’m fortunate to live a 60 min train ride from the old East End and frequently go there to further my interest in the subject. Although things are changing quickly it’s still possible to get a feel for what the environment must have been like back then. Some of the Ripper Walks are very informative and entertaining, they’re worth a go if you have any interest in the subject or the history of the East End. One thing I’m sure of is that whoever committed these crimes knew the area very, very well. As AlC mentions this is knowledge that Kosminski did have but he was too weak and docile to have been the murderer in my view.

kazza · Post by **kazza** » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:54 am

I remember watching the HH Holmes one. I think it was a lot about relatives of his trying to force it on the viewers that he was Jack The Ripper, but remember there wasn't any evidence for that theory at all. Nothing to back up the theory that Holmes ever came over to the UK with Holmes a popular surname. Just coincidences and the relatives of HH Holmes really wanting it to be him really.

All interesting though nevertheless.

There was also something to do with one 'passerby' finding one of the bodies on the street and running to find a policeman. I can't quite remember what that was all about, but when pieced together it looked suspicious with the thinking this passerby was actually the killer.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:58 am

Wouldn't surprise me if Priti Patel was somehow involved. This kind of evil seems right up her street

eastanglianclaret · Post by **eastanglianclaret** » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:04 am

There was also something to do with one 'passerby' finding one of the bodies on the street and running to find a policeman. I can't quite remember what that was all about, but when pieced together it looked suspicious with the thinking this passerby was actually the killer.
[/quote]

Think you are probably referring to Charles Lechmere (aka Charles Cross) who was the first person to come across the body of Polly Nicholls allegedly on his way to work.

kazza · Post by **kazza** » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:07 am

eastanglianclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:04 am
Think you are probably referring to Charles Lechmere (aka Charles Cross) who was the first person to come across the body of Polly Nicholls allegedly on his way to work.

You are probably correct. I don't remember the exact details, but the programme was showing 3D computer viewing of how it would look, the angles, how far the policeman was etc, and something didn't seem to add up. Suggesting Charles Lechmere was actually caught in the act and asked someone to go and find a policeman - something like that.

eastanglianclaret · Post by **eastanglianclaret** » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:19 am

Yep...I think the programme that you are referring to is called The Missing Evidence and was based on the theories of a bloke called Christer Holmgren.

kazza · Post by **kazza** » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:34 am

eastanglianclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:19 am
Yep...I think the programme that you are referring to is called The Missing Evidence and was based on the theories of a bloke called Christer Holmgren.

That seems to show as 2014, but what I watched was definitely a bit earlier than that. But imagine there's been many programmes detailing the same thoughts and clues.

eastanglianclaret · Post by **eastanglianclaret** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:57 am

Question for AlargeClaret : I was interested in your comment above "It’s clearly no one who has ever been a suspect ..... Wouldn’t suprise if he never existed at all". I wondered whether that was just your own personal opinion or whether there was some literature, a website or other available source that discusses those points? I've studied the subject for many a year and whilst I'm familiar with the first part of your statement, the suggestion that he/she/they might not have existed at all intrigues me. Don't want to start a debate, just interested to know if there's a reference point because I may have a hole in my collection!! Thank you. UTC EAC

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:33 am

eastanglianclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:57 am
Question for AlargeClaret : I was interested in your comment above "It’s clearly no one who has ever been a suspect ..... Wouldn’t suprise if he never existed at all". I wondered whether that was just your own personal opinion or whether there was some literature, a website or other available source that discusses those points? I've studied the subject for many a year and whilst I'm familiar with the first part of your statement, the suggestion that he/she/they might not have existed at all intrigues me. Don't want to start a debate, just interested to know if there's a reference point because I may have a hole in my collection!! Thank you. UTC EAC

Hi

Likewise and it’s a thankful task haha . If I was personally put on the spot I’d say either a local very fortunate ruffian or a highly intelligent sadist . With 11 Whitechapel murders in all it could also have been gangs/2/3 different people .

I’ve read endless JTR books , some great some awful . The Simon Wood book below convincingly ( and very factually) breaks down the whole “ bogeyman “ thing about “ Jack” and that he may never have existed as we portray him .

Best would be
“ They all love Jack”( Bruce Robinson ) - better as an audio book it’s huge and is quite remarkably forensically researched though his suspect is relatively incidental, the way rips through Ripperology and many of its sacred cows is a joy to behold .

Deconstructing Jack- Simon Wood
Another good one that looks at the surrounding events , political inc the “ Irish situation “ ,policing and easily dismisses many daft suspects . He also loosely puts out how JTR may have been never existed as a single entity .

eastanglianclaret · Post by **eastanglianclaret** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:01 am

Thank you. Must admit that I don't know the Simon Wood book so I'll look it up. I've got the Robinson book. I really like the Michael Maybrick theory as a read, Robinson does cut through a lot of the tosh but maybe introduces a bit as well!! The book gets a bit laboured towards the end for me. It would make a good docufilm. I tend to agree with you about the local bloke, whoever he was he certainly knew his way around. Equally I tend to believe that if it was one single entity then there were more than the 5 'canonical' murders, more likely the 11 that you mention. Thank you once again for taking the time to respond.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:12 am

I don't think it was more than one local psychopath. It's odd how he stopped after the awful butchery of Mary Jane Kelly. Serial killers only stop when caught or become too old or ill. He may have committed suicide in the Thames shortly afterwards. Anyway, the reason why we all talk about this today is because it will never be solved.

kazza · Post by **kazza** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:03 pm

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:33 am
Likewise and it’s a thankful task haha . If I was personally put on the spot I’d say either a local very fortunate ruffian or a highly intelligent sadist . With 11 Whitechapel murders in all it could also have been gangs/2/3 different people .

Interesting, but weren't all the murders along the same lines and if it were done by more people, what are the chances that they were all equally as clever to avoid capture? Surely it would greatly increase the chance of at least 1 of them being caught.

eastanglianclaret · Post by **eastanglianclaret** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:48 am

Interesting, but weren't all the murders along the same lines and if it were done by more people, what are the chances that they were all equally as clever to avoid capture? Surely it would greatly increase the chance of at least 1 of them being caught.
[/quote]

Good question(s) Kazza. Four of the five 'canonical' murders were similar. The third was slightly different but may well have ended up the same way if the killer had not been interrupted as some writers believe. Although it's thought by many researchers that the murderer escaped from some of the crime scenes just in time (not least that of Liz Stride, the third), it's perhaps important to understand that, to conduct their business, the ladies would take their clients to places where they felt that there was the least chance of interruption and as such inadvertently lessening the risk of capture for the killer. Personally I think that only one killer was involved, certainly in the case of the 5.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:50 am

Probs right re: 1 killer tbh. Though as literally zero evidence against anyone apart from odd bits of circumstantial ( Lechmere ) I often wonder if there’s another plausible -/realistic scenario . Though I firmly believe Tabram was his 1st victim and it’s interesting that there’s plenty of quotes that many of the top brass believed “ the Whitechapel murderer”was still at large into 91/92 by dint of none of the 11 murders having a scrap of evidence . I enjoy reading about Tumblety but as a suspect he’s ludicrous IMO .

We’ll never know whether he was just very lucky getting away, bearing in mind pitch black poorly lit streets , back passages and ginnels or was some criminal mastermind . My opinion he had a decent intelligence, possibly and a big slice of luck .