Jack Cork
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Re: Jack Cork
Hi Papa,
Go on, I’ll bite.
Cork fell over and lost possession and then gave the ball away once needlessly. For me, he was still the best of the three in central midfielders.
All the best
Go on, I’ll bite.
Cork fell over and lost possession and then gave the ball away once needlessly. For me, he was still the best of the three in central midfielders.
All the best
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Re: Jack Cork
Been finished for a long time… anyone who says any different does not understand football I’m afraid.
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Re: Jack Cork
Interesting observation. That’ll be me and Dande (one of our former club scouts) for starters.
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Re: Jack Cork
He’s no longer an automatic first choice and his role should be from the sub’s bench. The problem is Westwood and Brownhill are below average PL midfielders.
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Re: Jack Cork
It was only a week ago that the majority thought Cork was a big influence in the game at City. Still need his experience on the pitch IMO
Re: Jack Cork
These sort of comments don’t half **** me off.
Because someone might have a different view, they don’t understand the sport that they watch.
Facts are, the huge majority of us don’t truly understand football, we say as we see as fans, not experts, and each viewpoint is as valid as others.
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Re: Jack Cork
Really? I never knew that.
Didn’t Dave Whelan break his leg once, too?
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Re: Jack Cork
That’s your opinion and your entitled to it, but if you want a CM with no goals and no assists since 2019 I don’t share that view unfortunately
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Re: Jack Cork
I think he would struggle to get game time at any of the other PL teams. At this moment in time he doesn't cover the ground anywhere near as quickly as he used to, that's either down to lack of game time, lack of agility given his age or the PL has just got too quick for him. I don't know the right answer but unless there is a big improvement from our entire midfield we are only going one way
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Re: Jack Cork
He hasn't been good enough for almost 3 years, today was comical, midway through the game I was thinking ''even Dale Stephens can't be this bad, can he?'' An absolute comedy performance, everytime the ball came near him, his legs turned to jelly and he fell over.
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Re: Jack Cork
This has to be the best post I have seen in years, absolutely nailed it, thanks DC for restoring the faith in the board, a pint on me.DCWat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:34 pmThese sort of comments don’t half **** me off.
Because someone might have a different view, they don’t understand the sport that they watch.
Facts are, the huge majority of us don’t truly understand football, we say as we see as fans, not experts, and each viewpoint is as valid as others.
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Re: Jack Cork
We have far too many players who would need to sign for bottom tier Championship sides like Blackpool to get regular game time. Brady being a good example, he wont get a sniff at Bournemouth, signed due to Brooks' illness. JBG wouldn't get a sniff at a top end Championship side. Lennon the same. Stephens if he ever gets fit again would likely drop to League One (like Marney did). Vokes is in League One right now, I wouldn't say there's a big difference between him and Barnes. Rodriguez another lower end Championship player these days.Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:39 pmI think he would struggle to get game time at any of the other PL teams. At this moment in time he doesn't cover the ground anywhere near as quickly as he used to, that's either down to lack of game time, lack of agility given his age or the PL has just got too quick for him. I don't know the right answer but unless there is a big improvement from our entire midfield we are only going one way
You will see at the end of the season when alot of these players leave on free transfers, they wont be going to promotion chasing sides.
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Re: Jack Cork
Being a former club scout means absolutely nothing.
You can become a scout of a championship/league one side now if you do a course online.
Cork is not our best midfielder and he certainly needs to become 4th choice in January.
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Re: Jack Cork
I nearly reported this for speaking sense.KRBFC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:51 pmWe have far too many players who would need to sign for bottom tier Championship sides like Blackpool to get regular game time. Brady being a good example, he wont get a sniff at Bournemouth, signed due to Brooks' illness. JBG wouldn't get a sniff at a top end Championship side. Lennon the same. Stephens if he ever gets fit again would likely drop to League One (like Marney did). Vokes is in League One right now, I wouldn't say there's a big difference between him and Barnes. Rodriguez another lower end Championship player these days.
You will see at the end of the season when alot of these players leave on free transfers, they wont be going to promotion chasing sides.
Re: Jack Cork
I think Marney/Jones when they left were better players than Cork/Stephens are now.
Boyd when he left was considerably better than JBG is now.
If we did a best possible team of Fulham/WBA/Burnley players, only Mcneil from midfield gets in, huge problem.
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Re: Jack Cork
If you see my comments under the MIDFIELD topic. CAN IT GET ANY WORSE.Virtually said the same thingVegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:39 pmI think he would struggle to get game time at any of the other PL teams. At this moment in time he doesn't cover the ground anywhere near as quickly as he used to, that's either down to lack of game time, lack of agility given his age or the PL has just got too quick for him. I don't know the right answer but unless there is a big improvement from our entire midfield we are only going one way
Re: Jack Cork
I think any of Cork, Westwood, Brownhill can still hack it at this level IF they're paired with a midfielder who has power and the legs to get about the pitch properly. Unfortunately all, particularly the former two are regularly off the pace and caught out of position - not their fault but we've been crying out for that elusive box to box energetic midfielder for ages. It's a must upgrade position in January for me.
Re: Jack Cork
Something seems to have finally clicked re Phillip Billing at Bournemouth. Of course, now the timing is no good.
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Re: Jack Cork
Spot onNickBFC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:42 pmI think any of Cork, Westwood, Brownhill can still hack it at this level IF they're paired with a midfielder who has power and the legs to get about the pitch properly. Unfortunately all, particularly the former two are regularly off the pace and caught out of position - not their fault but we've been crying out for that elusive box to box energetic midfielder for ages. It's a must upgrade position in January for me.
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Re: Jack Cork
I think a lot of people on here have short memories. Corky is most certainly one of Dyche's best signings and I struggle to think of anyone more industrious for us over the last couple of decades than him.
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Re: Jack Cork
What is Cork being one if his best historic signings (agree btw) got to do with his current form and ability ? Can't beat age unfortunatelyashtonlongsider wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:34 pmI think a lot of people on here have short memories. Corky is most certainly one of Dyche's best signings and I struggle to think of anyone more industrious for us over the last couple of decades than him.
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Re: Jack Cork
Looked like his legs have gone. Do wonder if the bad ankle injury he had has contributed to this. Very poor
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Re: Jack Cork
Apart from the fact they know what’s needed to a CM, when you lot don’t.Richardsbfc wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:54 pmBeing a former club scout means absolutely nothing.
You can become a scout of a championship/league one side now if you do a course online.
Cork is not our best midfielder and he certainly needs to become 4th choice in January.
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Re: Jack Cork
He's a great reader of the game, but he had to be, as he was never quick. Unfortunately he's losing whatever pace he had and being able to read the game is no longer enough to get by. Watching opposing midfielders run past him is becoming embarrassing, I'm sure he must also feel that way.
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Re: Jack Cork
If they think Cork is the answer then no, they don’t.Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:50 pmApart from the fact they know what’s needed to a CM, when you lot don’t.
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Re: Jack Cork
Not good enough now. Should have replaced him a couple of seasons ago.
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Re: Jack Cork
Jack Cork 125 Premier League games. 3 goals
Ashley Westwood 143 Premier League games 7 goals
Josh Brownhill 52 Premier League games 0 goals
320 games 10 goals in total for our midfield 3. 1 goal every 32 games. The problems have been there for a number of seasons, age is magnifying them for Cork and Westwood. No pace, no power, no creativity, minimal goal threat. Until this is addressed we are heading in a downward direction.
Ashley Westwood 143 Premier League games 7 goals
Josh Brownhill 52 Premier League games 0 goals
320 games 10 goals in total for our midfield 3. 1 goal every 32 games. The problems have been there for a number of seasons, age is magnifying them for Cork and Westwood. No pace, no power, no creativity, minimal goal threat. Until this is addressed we are heading in a downward direction.
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Re: Jack Cork
It’s much worse than this though, the basics of being a CM arnt even being witnessed at the moment.Herts Clarets wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:41 amJack Cork 125 Premier League games. 3 goals
Ashley Westwood 143 Premier League games 7 goals
Josh Brownhill 52 Premier League games 0 goals
320 games 10 goals in total for our midfield 3. 1 goal every 32 games. The problems have been there for a number of seasons, age is magnifying them for Cork and Westwood. No pace, no power, no creativity, minimal goal threat. Until this is addressed we are heading in a downward direction.
Look at yesterday as an example
Westwood completed 37 passes
Brownhill 24 passes
Cork 19 passes
With a midfield completing that many passes a game we are always going to struggle to win a game. We are chasing shadows for the majority of games purely down to the fact we can’t retain possession.
I believe the league average is somewhere around 45 completed passes a game for a cm.
Re: Jack Cork
Westwood and Cork have been very good for us in large periods of the range of games you refer to above culminating in our significant successes in recent years. I can certainly understand the view that we now need to strengthen central minefield, but I think it's unreasonable to make such criticism over the seasons.Herts Clarets wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:41 amJack Cork 125 Premier League games. 3 goals
Ashley Westwood 143 Premier League games 7 goals
Josh Brownhill 52 Premier League games 0 goals
320 games 10 goals in total for our midfield 3. 1 goal every 32 games. The problems have been there for a number of seasons, age is magnifying them for Cork and Westwood. No pace, no power, no creativity, minimal goal threat. Until this is addressed we are heading in a downward direction.
Re: Jack Cork
That's more about our style of play; the same style of play that has delivered so much.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:45 amIt’s much worse than this though, the basics of being a CM arnt even being witnessed at the moment.
Look at yesterday as an example
Westwood completed 37 passes
Brownhill 24 passes
Cork 19 passes
With a midfield completing that many passes a game we are always going to struggle to win a game. We are chasing shadows for the majority of games purely down to the fact we can’t retain possession.
I believe the league average is somewhere around 45 completed passes a game for a cm.
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Re: Jack Cork
It’s not at all, over the last 18 months the number of passes our midfield completes has dropped considerably.
When we finished 10th two seasons ago our average passes completed a game we’re around the 38-42 mark.
What we are witnessing is the mass decline of players due to age.
Re: Jack Cork
Where are you getting these stats from?Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:51 amIt’s not at all, over the last 18 months the number of passes our midfield completes has dropped considerably.
When we finished 10th two seasons ago our average passes completed a game we’re around the 38-42 mark.
What we are witnessing is the mass decline of players due to age.
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Re: Jack Cork
Our CMs won't normally meet the league average because of our style of play which is back to my original point.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:53 amWhoscored - Westwood is the only midfielder at Burnley that meets the league average
Stats are interesting, but they can be manipulated to support a particular viewpoint.
For example, Westwood is passing more per game so far this season than is average per game when we finished 7th.
Also, in comparing this season so far to previous full seasons, that doesn't take account of the fact that we typically start poorly.
I would assume that in previous seasons player stats through the season are often on an upwards trajectory.
Last edited by taio on Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jack Cork
That’s down to opinion same as everybody else, I don’t agree with the concept that football is some sort of a sport where you’ve got experts knowing so much more than anybody else, nobody is a expert just a variety of different opinions doesn’t make anybody right or wrong it’s an opinion, some people do know a lot more than others it doesn’t make them experts the people who don’t know as much only have to read to gain more information to become more knowledgeable, no experts exist in football just people with different opinions & more people might happen to agree with 1 person more than the other it doesn’t make them right or wrong, this is an opinion it doesn’t make me right or wrong.Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:50 pmApart from the fact they know what’s needed to a CM, when you lot don’t.
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Re: Jack Cork
To be fair it’s not the best comparison, westwood was a bench player that season he played 1108 mins across 19 appearances. An average of 58 mins a game.taio wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:14 amOur CMs won't normally meet the league average because of our style of play which is back to my original point.
Stats are interesting, but they can be manipulated to support a particular viewpoint.
For example, Westwood is passing more per game so far this season than is average per game when we finished 7th.
Also, in comparing this season so far to previous full seasons, that doesn't take account of the fact that we typically start poorly.
I would assume that in previous seasons player stats through the season are often on an upwards trajectory.
If we compare our CMs that season to this the stats read.
Defour - 42.3 passes per game at 83.8 pass completion.
35.44 completed passes a game.
Cork - 41.6 passes per game at 80.6 pass completion. 33.56 passes completed per game.
2021-22 season
Westwood - 48.4 passes per game at 76% pass completion
36 passes completed per game.
Brownhill - 31.2 passes per game at 77% pass completion
24 passes completed per game.
So in comparison in the 2017-18 we retained the ball considerably better (we gave it away a lot less).
2017-18 we averaged 79 completed passes in CM. We have the ball away on average 14 times a game.
2021-22 we average 60 passes per game. We currently give the ball away 19 times a game.
I think ball retention is a big reason we can’t see out games and score goals
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Re: Jack Cork
Awful. He’s been great for us. Twice. Unfortunately time catches up with is all.
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Re: Jack Cork
Lots of mentions about our style of play. We play that way because our midfield are incapable of retaining possession and getting us moving forwards. So we often bypass and go long from back to front.
Re: Jack Cork
Our stats so far this season won't compare favourably because we have started poorly. I expect in other seasons when we have started poorly the stats have improved through the season. Hopefully that will happen again. Obviously in 2017/18 things will look better because that was a tremendously successful season and way above anyone's expectations. Our team possession I.e. ball retention has always been inferior, again because of our style of play.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:37 amTo be fair it’s not the best comparison, westwood was a bench player that season he played 1108 mins across 19 appearances. An average of 58 mins a game.
If we compare our CMs that season to this the stats read.
Defour - 42.3 passes per game at 83.8 pass completion.
35.44 completed passes a game.
Cork - 41.6 passes per game at 80.6 pass completion. 33.56 passes completed per game.
2021-22 season
Westwood - 48.4 passes per game at 76% pass completion
36 passes completed per game.
Brownhill - 31.2 passes per game at 77% pass completion
24 passes completed per game.
So in comparison in the 2017-18 we retained the ball considerably better (we gave it away a lot less).
2017-18 we averaged 79 completed passes in CM. We have the ball away on average 14 times a game.
2021-22 we average 60 passes per game. We currently give the ball away 19 times a game.
I think ball retention is a big reason we can’t see out games and score goals
Re: Jack Cork
I doubt anyone would deny that our style of play is determined by our inferior technical ability. It's been quite deliberate in order to play to our strengths which has worked well, but I accept that may not be enough this season.Herts Clarets wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:43 amLots of mentions about our style of play. We play that way because our midfield are incapable of retaining possession and getting us moving forwards. So we often bypass and go long from back to front.
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Re: Jack Cork
True, I also think we've been about long enough for teams to suss us out we haven't radically evolved anything really not enough game changers same old people plodding on going through the motions, cornet seems to offer something different but the rots set in.
Re: Jack Cork
Our midfield has always been technically worse than most sides in the division but we made up for it by our relentless approach.
This season looks to be a stretch too far, Cork is not the same player that ran miles and miles in the season we reached Europe, he's older and not as capable of putting in those types of performances.
The whole team appears to have lost the relentless nature that was the blueprint for our success in my opinion. Quite simple I don't think we have the personal to play this way anymore. It works in small pockets of games but as soon as we drop off we get punished. I feel bad for Cork though, he's been a terrific player for us and has been a great signing but I don't think he's up to chasing round the pitch for 90mins anymore.
This season looks to be a stretch too far, Cork is not the same player that ran miles and miles in the season we reached Europe, he's older and not as capable of putting in those types of performances.
The whole team appears to have lost the relentless nature that was the blueprint for our success in my opinion. Quite simple I don't think we have the personal to play this way anymore. It works in small pockets of games but as soon as we drop off we get punished. I feel bad for Cork though, he's been a terrific player for us and has been a great signing but I don't think he's up to chasing round the pitch for 90mins anymore.
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Re: Jack Cork
Agreed, but fans complain one week and then can be saying their world beaters the next. He might not be having his best season, but think we should cut him some slack.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:14 amThat’s down to opinion same as everybody else, I don’t agree with the concept that football is some sort of a sport where you’ve got experts knowing so much more than anybody else, nobody is a expert just a variety of different opinions doesn’t make anybody right or wrong it’s an opinion, some people do know a lot more than others it doesn’t make them experts the people who don’t know as much only have to read to gain more information to become more knowledgeable, no experts exist in football just people with different opinions & more people might happen to agree with 1 person more than the other it doesn’t make them right or wrong, this is an opinion it doesn’t make me right or wrong.
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Re: Jack Cork
It's a long season & with the squad & alternatives i don't think we've any other option.Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:39 pmAgreed, but fans complain one week and then can be saying their world beaters the next. He might not be having his best season, but think we should cut him some slack.
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Re: Jack Cork
I just hope we can start picking up some points, no matter who is playing. I think they are all trying their best.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:37 pmIt's a long season & with the squad & alternatives i don't think we've any other option.
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Re: Jack Cork
I just love it when people make a statement then try to shut down the argument by suggesting anyone who disagrees is some kind of fool. I’m sure you’re a believer in free speech and argument but it’s a bit thinly disguised.