One for Sid1st / GIADJ

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Hi Sid,

As the car guy on here, your advice appreciated. Recently had the following work done to the Nissan Qashqai J11:

Cylinder Head Rebuild
Timing Chain Kit
Crank Shaft Oil Seal
Sump Drain Seal
Spark Plug Set
Ignition Coil Pack
Erling Cylinder Gasket Set
Victor Reinz Head Bolts
Aux Drive Belt

When I got the car back, I noted that accelerating from under 2000rpm gave a slight judder once in a while. This didn't happen before the work. As it wasn't every time, I lived with it for a couple of weeks and then one day:
Car interior smells of petrol
Engine wouldn't start

Took back to garage and diagnosed correctly with new fuel injection O rings required. £200 bill.

So my question is, as the juddering started only after I have received the car back from the garage, is there anything in the above work that could have caused the O ring issue and therefore mean the garage should repair FOC or reduced rate?

Thank in advance.

ASG

[BurnleyFC]

They will have removed the injectors initially to carry out the work on the cylinder head.

[Claret Till I Die]

Thought this was a reference to the recent visit to Burnley of John Lydon...

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Thought this was a reference to the recent visit to Burnley of John Lydon...

This is not a love song, it's a request for mechanical advice

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Out of interest, what was the initial problem, because it's odd to replace a coil pack along with a head gasket etc?

Last time I did a cylinder head rebuild on a petrol I checked the condition of the fuel injector seals simply out of habit and because they were a pig to get at and it turned out the rubber o-rings were in bad shape and cost silly money it turned out, even though the seals weren't that big.

If that had been in my last workshop, we would've inspected them upon removal and made a decision prior to refitting.

There's a chance they were fitted incorrectly, a seal was caught/nicked on something, because that does happen.

Did they replace the seals on all 4 injectors or just the one?
Did they tell you which injector was at fault?
£200 sounds like a lot, but as I've said sometimes they cost a lot just for the seals.

[Claret Till I Die]

This is not a love song, it's a request for mechanical advice

Sounds like a bit of a swindle

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Initial problem was rattling engine which led to total breakdown.

Car is still at garage awaiting o ring replacement tomorrow. They suggest all 4 being placed as they dont know which is at fault. Erling ones x 4 at £15 each plus 140 for labour

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Sounds like a bit of a swindle

If the cost continues to 'rise' then it will be!

[Claret Till I Die]

If the cost continues to 'rise' then it will be!

I'll remain vacant if it ends in anarchy

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Initial problem was rattling engine which led to total breakdown.

Car is still at garage awaiting o ring replacement tomorrow. They suggest all 4 being placed as they dont know which is at fault. Erling ones x 4 at £15 each plus 140 for labour

Rattling engine?
So the timing chain then, which is quite common, just odd they had to remover the cylinder head and rebuild it, plus replace the coil pack.
Normally if the chain is rattling, it takes the crank out and not the head (seen this on a few BMW's)

Anyway, if they don't know which is at fault, that means they're a pig to get at or they can't see them to enable them to identify it, or they know and want to do the whole set to avoid there being an issue again.

You've got a good argument that the leak was caused by a fitment issue when they rebuilt the head.
It's rare for fuel injector seals to leak, unless they've been disturbed and/or fitted incorrectly - in this instance they have been removed and refitted recently.

Have a chat with the workshop about it, highlight the fact this wasn't an issue before they rebuilt and refitted the head.
At best they may offer to cover the cost of the parts, or the Labour, as a gesture of goodwill in light of the fact you've spent a lot of money with them recently.
If you're a regular customer it can also go in your favour.

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Thanks GIADJ. Spent 2 grand on the initial work so loathe to spend anymore unnecessarily

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

To add, some pistons were bent with initial problem

[GodIsADeeJay81]

To add, some pistons were bent with initial problem

I was right then, the crank went which is why the head had to come off.

I would've put a recon engine in then tbh, or 2nd hand one that comes with some sort of guarantee.

Having to put in new pistons with con rods, crank bearings/shells and assume the crank itself wasn't knackered doesn't sound very cost effective.

Actually sounds like a mare of a job to strip and rebuild all of that, definitely way to labour intensive to be worth the hassle.

Anyway, definitely worth a friendly chat with them about it.

[KRBFC]

I hope Sidney knows more about cars than he does about football or you're in deep trouble

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I hope Sidney knows more about cars than he does about football or you're in deep trouble

I've forgotten more about cars than you'll ever know about football

[Bosscat]

I've forgotten more about cars than you'll ever know about football

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Well Sid, an update I ended up paying £144 inc Vat for a fuel injector seal kit (65 quid and 50 quid of labour). Strange how they didn't notice when they took my engine apart that the seals were no good!

Anyway, since then my car has continued to suffer from juddering which I presumed is to do with these injectors/seals, despite being new? They have had the car in today and I have been told that a new pack of ignition coils have been ordered to be fitted. Will this solve the juddering problem when accelerating and should I be paying for these? All these problems have occured since they did the initial big work on the engine, and I have spent £144 on not solving the problem based on their advice that the seals needed replacing.

Not happy!

[Peter Loo]

Jap crap so what do you expect

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Well Sid, an update I ended up paying £144 inc Vat for a fuel injector seal kit (65 quid and 50 quid of labour). Strange how they didn't notice when they took my engine apart that the seals were no good!

Anyway, since then my car has continued to suffer from juddering which I presumed is to do with these injectors/seals, despite being new? They have had the car in today and I have been told that a new pack of ignition coils have been ordered to be fitted. Will this solve the juddering problem when accelerating and should I be paying for these? All these problems have occured since they did the initial big work on the engine, and I have spent £144 on not solving the problem based on their advice that the seals needed replacing.

Not happy!

Pack of coils would indicate they're replacing all 4, which is unusual if they're singular units, which I think they are on those.
If all 4 had failed, you wouldn't be able to drive, a singular one could potentially cause the juddering as it would be causing a misfire.

I'm going out on a limb here to say I don't think they know what's causing the fault, so they're just replacing stuff in the hope it solves it.

Personally, I'd go to another workshop, ask them to plug it into their diagnostic Machine and see what fault codes are showing.
There is a fee for them doing that, but then you should get a better answer.

With individual coil packs, if one is faulty it will show up on the diagnostics as a misfire on cylinder 3, for example, then you'd only replace the one coil pack because the others are fine.
If a diagnostic Machine indicates a fault on all 4, then I'd still be dubious because the car simply wouldn't run

Some vehicles do have one single coil for all 4 cylinders but I don't think that's the case with yours.

In regards to you having to pay, yes I'm afraid so because technically it isn't something they've broken etc, they can argue the fault occured after they rebuilt the engine.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Jap crap so what do you expect

French engine

[Peter Loo]

Really well French cars mechanically are nothing to right home about either so it’s seems a marriage made in hell.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Back on subject

You're also within your rights to ask what happens if the coil pack(s) don't cure the problem.
You don't want to be out of pocket, but you also don't want to keep paying for several different parts in the hope it fixes it.
If the coils don't work, I suspect their next suggestion will be spark plugs or the MAF sensor.

[minnieclaret]

Mechanics=Public Enemy.
Sorry I’ll get me coat.

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Cheers Sid, I think it may be a bit too late to take elsewhere as they have ordered the coil(s). I will certainly take up with them though the fact that all 4 dont need replacing if that is what they are doing. I still feel that I wasted £144 in replacing the seals. Sounds like there was nothing wrong with them!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If you've still got the car, then you're fine to just pop into another garage and ask them to plug it in to read the codes.
You're not obliged to return to the first garage if you're unhappy with the service.