HS2
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HS2
Rail link set to be scrapped.Why not scrap it all and have done with it..What an absolute waste of money it is..
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Re: HS2
I think the idea of a huge national infrastructure revamp connecting the major cities is massively over due (France TGVs have been running for over 40 years)conyoviejo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:15 amRail link set to be scrapped.Why not scrap it all and have done with it..What an absolute waste of money it is..
But just building it between London, Birmingham and then to a village outside Leicester is a complete waste of time
And we desperately need investment in the infrastructure in the north, and I fear that we are going to be let down again on that one
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Re: HS2
Getting places quicker is always good - but what will the pricing be? I imagine it will be ludicrous, like every single train fare in this country already is.
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Re: HS2
Expert talking about how bad this decision is on LBC now
Fascinating listen
Fascinating listen
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Re: HS2
Experts, pah.Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:24 amExpert talking about how bad this decision is on LBC now
Fascinating listen
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Re: HS2
To be honest, I was against it, but if we are ever going to get more people on to trains, then we need huge investment in a national high speed rail network
London-Bristol, London-Glasgow, London-Edinburgh, Leeds-Manchester, Birmingham-Leeds etc etc etc
But it would cost trillions
This expert really is not pulling any punches on the radio btw
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Re: HS2
Will they rebuild the "Bree Louise"????
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Re: HS2
I wonder how much has already been spent (now wasted) on the link to Leeds?
And the people who have been impacted? I worked with two people who had houses on a new estate east of Rotherham (could have been Mexborough) who were part of a compulsory purchase do to the proposed line going straight through the estate. One of the houses was still being built so building work was die to stop, she paid a deposit but had nothing for her money. I left the job while all this was going on (2016) so I don't know how it panned out.
And the people who have been impacted? I worked with two people who had houses on a new estate east of Rotherham (could have been Mexborough) who were part of a compulsory purchase do to the proposed line going straight through the estate. One of the houses was still being built so building work was die to stop, she paid a deposit but had nothing for her money. I left the job while all this was going on (2016) so I don't know how it panned out.
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Re: HS2
Missed out it's the link to Leeds they are scrapping.conyoviejo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:15 amRail link set to be scrapped.Why not scrap it all and have done with it..What an absolute waste of money it is..
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Re: HS2
Haven't they said they're going to invest £98 billion improving other rail links across the north instead of connecting HS2 up to Leeds?
Isnt that a better idea?
People were banging on about that link to Manchester's needing to be reopened for years, so aren't more of those things needed?
Isnt that a better idea?
People were banging on about that link to Manchester's needing to be reopened for years, so aren't more of those things needed?
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Re: HS2
"COS I DUNT USE IT ITS A RIAGHT WAISTE A'R MUNNEY!"
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Re: HS2
I guess we will wait and seeGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:53 amHaven't they said they're going to invest £98 billion improving other rail links across the north instead of connecting HS2 up to Leeds?
Isnt that a better idea?
People were banging on about that link to Manchester's needing to be reopened for years, so aren't more of those things needed?
But the impression that I got from the expert is that HS2 was all about increasing capacity by the new line allowing better services due to less trains on the other lines
If you did that nationwide, you'd have a huge nationwide boost
the point he was making is that local improvements won't have the same effect
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Re: HS2
The increase in rail fares is obscenejedi_master wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:21 amGetting places quicker is always good - but what will the pricing be? I imagine it will be ludicrous, like every single train fare in this country already is.
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Re: HS2
The rail network is well overdue improvements, the current state is a disgrace. Proper investment years ago would have allowed more freight to be handled by rail instead of relying on heavy goods vehicles. This would have probably saved £millions of repairs on our motorways, eased traffic congestion and alleviated over reliance on hgv drivers today. This would of course require a government to be able to plan long term without a hatred of the rail unions.
Re: HS2
I think thats a fudged number. It includes a chunk of the money already spent on HS2 to Crewe. But if it was the case that it was better to upgrade, then it surely undermines the case for HS2 in the first place, because that was certainly one option on the table.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:53 amHaven't they said they're going to invest £98 billion improving other rail links across the north instead of connecting HS2 up to Leeds?
Isnt that a better idea?
People were banging on about that link to Manchester's needing to be reopened for years, so aren't more of those things needed?
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Re: HS2
They have but some of that money has already been "announced" so isn't new investment. And some of the original plans have already been downgraded - a high-speed link from Leeds to Bradford has been scrapped in favour of upgrading the existing line.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:53 amHaven't they said they're going to invest £98 billion improving other rail links across the north instead of connecting HS2 up to Leeds?
Isnt that a better idea?
People were banging on about that link to Manchester's needing to be reopened for years, so aren't more of those things needed?
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Re: HS2
Can't edit this now - i meant to write the line from Leeds to Manchester via Bradford.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:15 amThey have but some of that money has already been "announced" so isn't new investment. And some of the original plans have already been downgraded - a high-speed link from Leeds to Bradford has been scrapped in favour of upgrading the existing line.
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Re: HS2
I think we'll have to find out what exactly is in and what is already promised
I guess there will be a lot of disappointed people either way
I guess there will be a lot of disappointed people either way
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Re: HS2
There is a new line Warrington to Manchester apparently
Is HS2 still going to link up with that, or does it stop at Birmingham?
Is HS2 still going to link up with that, or does it stop at Birmingham?
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Re: HS2
This is my understanding in that freeing up existing line capacity with the introduction of HS2 links would really help improve the local services. There's an article somewhere Ive seen which shows how the Trains have to enter into Leeds station with some of them having to loop round the city and come in the wrong direction because there is such minimal line capacity to handle everything coming through the station in an effective way.Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:56 amBut the impression that I got from the expert is that HS2 was all about increasing capacity by the new line allowing better services due to less trains on the other lines
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Re: HS2
They spent billions on ensuring the already over indulged and spoilt Londoners weren't inconvenienced when going from one side of London to the other, in the form , what was the largest engineering project in Europe in CrossRail.. But that wasn't enough. Hence CrossRail 2. Yet, when the North asks for the desperately needed electrification of the line to help millions get from one side of ENGLAND to the other it's a big fat London centric "No!" The tories are going to pay for this at the ballot box.
Boris has written in the Yorkshire Post today boasting of speeding up travel times from Leeds to London. What he and the London centric establishment don't realise is that one of the biggest concentrations of people in Europe live 60 miles north and south of the M62 corridor . They want to get from Liverpool to Newcastle, from Carlisle to Sheffield, from Hull to Stoke. Believe it or not Boris, for millions of Northerners, London is not the epicentre of the world! He and the Establishment simply don't get it.
Read in the guardian an article by their northern correspondent. Who'd previously travelled into London from Reading subsequently, travelling from Blackburn to Manchester. She said the trains from Reading were plush , had WiFi and were approximately every 10/15 minutes. The ones from Blackburn were diesel spewing boxes on rails that were cast offs from the south. One an hour.....
Read somewhere that public spending on transport -
London- £570 per person
Yorkshire - £ 170 per person
Similar figures for per pupil spending in education.....
Boris has written in the Yorkshire Post today boasting of speeding up travel times from Leeds to London. What he and the London centric establishment don't realise is that one of the biggest concentrations of people in Europe live 60 miles north and south of the M62 corridor . They want to get from Liverpool to Newcastle, from Carlisle to Sheffield, from Hull to Stoke. Believe it or not Boris, for millions of Northerners, London is not the epicentre of the world! He and the Establishment simply don't get it.
Read in the guardian an article by their northern correspondent. Who'd previously travelled into London from Reading subsequently, travelling from Blackburn to Manchester. She said the trains from Reading were plush , had WiFi and were approximately every 10/15 minutes. The ones from Blackburn were diesel spewing boxes on rails that were cast offs from the south. One an hour.....
Read somewhere that public spending on transport -
London- £570 per person
Yorkshire - £ 170 per person
Similar figures for per pupil spending in education.....
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HS2
And Leeds isn't the epicentre of the North
Why isn't a direct link to Liverpool from Crewe and then up to Preston a plan?
Why isn't a direct link to Liverpool from Crewe and then up to Preston a plan?
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Re: HS2
That's what you voted for.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:51 amThey spent billions on ensuring the already over indulged and spoilt Londoners weren't inconvenienced when going from one side of London to the other, in the form , what was the largest engineering project in Europe in CrossRail.. But that wasn't enough. Hence CrossRail 2. Yet, when the North asks for the desperately needed electrification of the line to help millions get from one side of ENGLAND to the other it's a big fat London centric "No!" The tories are going to pay for this at the ballot box.
Boris has written in the Yorkshire Post today boasting of speeding up travel times from Leeds to London. What he and the London centric establishment don't realise is that one of the biggest concentrations of people in Europe live 60 miles north and south of the M62 corridor . They want to get from Liverpool to Newcastle, from Carlisle to Sheffield, from Hull to Stoke. Believe it or not Boris, for millions of Northerners, London is not the epicentre of the world! He and the Establishment simply don't get it.
Read in the guardian an article by their northern correspondent. Who'd previously travelled into London from Reading subsequently, travelling from Blackburn to Manchester. She said the trains from Reading were plush , had WiFi and were approximately every 10/15 minutes. The ones from Blackburn were diesel spewing boxes on rails that were cast offs from the south. One an hour.....
Read somewhere that public spending on transport -
London- £570 per person
Yorkshire - £ 170 per person
Similar figures for per pupil spending in education.....
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Re: HS2
I personally don't think the rail infrastructure in Leeds is bad.
I can get to any other northern and southern city without much fuss.
The issue i have is the price and capacity. I once had to get the train at rush hour to Liverpool to catch a flight. It was standing room only for the whole journey.
Then there is the price. When you can fly to Spain from Leeds, and return to Newcastle cheaper than it cost to get a train to Newcastle then clearly the system is broken
As a country we need to strive to lower our carbon footprint. Using rail is an excellent way to do this if the price is right, but its just not affordable.
Why does rail travel cost so much in this country. A sleeper train across half of Australia is cheaper than a train from Leeds to London. How is that right?
Why is rail travel so expensive in the UK compared to other countries?
I can get to any other northern and southern city without much fuss.
The issue i have is the price and capacity. I once had to get the train at rush hour to Liverpool to catch a flight. It was standing room only for the whole journey.
Then there is the price. When you can fly to Spain from Leeds, and return to Newcastle cheaper than it cost to get a train to Newcastle then clearly the system is broken
As a country we need to strive to lower our carbon footprint. Using rail is an excellent way to do this if the price is right, but its just not affordable.
Why does rail travel cost so much in this country. A sleeper train across half of Australia is cheaper than a train from Leeds to London. How is that right?
Why is rail travel so expensive in the UK compared to other countries?
Re: HS2
The trouble with improving the existing infrastructure is that it will lead to years and years of delays and closures due to ongoing engineering works.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:53 amHaven't they said they're going to invest £98 billion improving other rail links across the north instead of connecting HS2 up to Leeds?
Isnt that a better idea?
People were banging on about that link to Manchester's needing to be reopened for years, so aren't more of those things needed?
A new Leeds-Manchester line (which is probably a more important line for the north) and the HS2 link could have been built without too much impact on existing services and would then add the extra capacity that is the real reason for HS2 (the faster train times are a nice headline but most industry experts seem to agree that it's really required to increase capacity rather than speed things up).
(And obviously, in the now traditional manner, a lot of that £98bn is spending and upgrades that had already been announced, it's not all new money.)
Re: HS2
Looks like reality may be starting to bite.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:51 amThey spent billions on ensuring the already over indulged and spoilt Londoners weren't inconvenienced when going from one side of London to the other, in the form , what was the largest engineering project in Europe in CrossRail.. But that wasn't enough. Hence CrossRail 2. Yet, when the North asks for the desperately needed electrification of the line to help millions get from one side of ENGLAND to the other it's a big fat London centric "No!" The tories are going to pay for this at the ballot box.
Boris has written in the Yorkshire Post today boasting of speeding up travel times from Leeds to London. What he and the London centric establishment don't realise is that one of the biggest concentrations of people in Europe live 60 miles north and south of the M62 corridor . They want to get from Liverpool to Newcastle, from Carlisle to Sheffield, from Hull to Stoke. Believe it or not Boris, for millions of Northerners, London is not the epicentre of the world! He and the Establishment simply don't get it.
Read in the guardian an article by their northern correspondent. Who'd previously travelled into London from Reading subsequently, travelling from Blackburn to Manchester. She said the trains from Reading were plush , had WiFi and were approximately every 10/15 minutes. The ones from Blackburn were diesel spewing boxes on rails that were cast offs from the south. One an hour.....
Read somewhere that public spending on transport -
London- £570 per person
Yorkshire - £ 170 per person
Similar figures for per pupil spending in education.....
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Re: HS2
No it's not.
I voted for one thing , I'm getting another.
In 1997 I voted for a left wing government. I got Tony Bliar......
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Re: HS2
Was there a logistical reason for starting in the south and working on the northern sections later?
- I would guess so that if any part of the project had to be cancelled, it would be the North that missed out and not London
Why is rail travel so expensive in the UK compared to other countries?
- Because most of our railways are owned by the other countries, so the profit they make from UK rail can subsidise rail travel in their own countries.
- I would guess so that if any part of the project had to be cancelled, it would be the North that missed out and not London
Why is rail travel so expensive in the UK compared to other countries?
- Because most of our railways are owned by the other countries, so the profit they make from UK rail can subsidise rail travel in their own countries.
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Re: HS2
I think rail nationalisation is supported by something like 75% of the population
But its like everything that was sold off back in the day, the long term consequences are now being felt
But its like everything that was sold off back in the day, the long term consequences are now being felt
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Re: HS2
You'll be told the same thing at the next election. You'll be encouraged to think that any alternative to this rotten lot will be worse. Only you can decide whether you think that's actually true or not.
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Re: HS2
The problem with things like this is it often goes over multiple parliaments and costs a lot of money. Its easy for an incoming party, or even a new leader within a party to scrap/ change to suit which ever direction the winds blowing.
When you compare our network to other countries its shambolic
We need a high speed rail network connecting all major cities in the UK. It would cost trillions but it would save trillions, like all decent infrastructure projects. The motorways would cost trillions to build from scratch now but it would cost a lot more to not have them.
We are over reliant on road freight which is being highlighted at the moment. The motorways are rammed with lorries and apparently thats not enough.
Things like a proper high speed rail network which will benefit the whole country need cross party agreement. It should be signed off by all parties and then put into action without the ability to change or cancel.
Its the same with the NHS. A cross party organisation would be far more beneficial when long term investment is needed.
Will never happen though because most of these morons with power love the power more than doing the right thing
When you compare our network to other countries its shambolic
We need a high speed rail network connecting all major cities in the UK. It would cost trillions but it would save trillions, like all decent infrastructure projects. The motorways would cost trillions to build from scratch now but it would cost a lot more to not have them.
We are over reliant on road freight which is being highlighted at the moment. The motorways are rammed with lorries and apparently thats not enough.
Things like a proper high speed rail network which will benefit the whole country need cross party agreement. It should be signed off by all parties and then put into action without the ability to change or cancel.
Its the same with the NHS. A cross party organisation would be far more beneficial when long term investment is needed.
Will never happen though because most of these morons with power love the power more than doing the right thing
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Re: HS2
It's almost as if I can't think for myself.JohnMcGreal wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:44 pmYou'll be told the same thing at the next election. You'll be encouraged to think that any alternative to this rotten lot will be worse. Only you can decide whether you think that's actually true or not.
I can, and do.
As can be evidenced by my criticising a government that I voted for.
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Re: HS2
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-midlands
There's a link on here to the new proposals.
162 pages long, so I'll have a read of it later.
There's a link on here to the new proposals.
162 pages long, so I'll have a read of it later.
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Re: HS2
Looks like - belatedly - some people are finally waking up to what obscenely wealthy politicians think of the North. Probably still doff their caps to them though.
Anyway, back on trains, we went to Norfolk in the summer. The trains were like something from Japan. Punctual, clean, loads of them.. state of the art. Just to service some nice villages on their trips to Norwich. We're proper third world up here and we're even voting to stay that way. Born to be serfs, unfortunately.
Anyway, back on trains, we went to Norfolk in the summer. The trains were like something from Japan. Punctual, clean, loads of them.. state of the art. Just to service some nice villages on their trips to Norwich. We're proper third world up here and we're even voting to stay that way. Born to be serfs, unfortunately.
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Re: HS2
Yes. If they'd done it the other way round they'd have had to do it all
Interestingly a tory MP has pointed out that it wasn't a case of HS2 OR the massive investment in the northern powerhouse rail project, it was supposed to be both. So the £96 billion still leaves the North way short of where it would have been.
I know there has been a lot of opposition to HS2, but it has been compared to the initial installation of sewers. Looking back, this was historically a key decision, and the country wouldn't be recognisable today without it. If you don't keep your infrastructure ahead of the game, then you will never catch up, and people won't want to invest. It's essentially a massive investment over decades and decades. We are already miles behind with national rail infrastructure, and the current decision doesn't do anything to balance this.
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Re: HS2
What worries me more is that there were a lot of promises made at the last election (not just to do with infrastructure) and its looking like none of them are actually going to happen
That does far more damage to democracy for everyone, and I just wish I could hold my hands up and say that I was wrong about it, but sadly I can't
That does far more damage to democracy for everyone, and I just wish I could hold my hands up and say that I was wrong about it, but sadly I can't
Re: HS2
It's only 2 hrs 10 mins form London Euston to Preston as things stand.
It's quick enough and expensive enough.
It's an hour to Birmingham now, more or less.
HS2 knocks 10 minutes off the journey time.
Those in favour of the whole expense I hope the toilets don't work and the train breaks down when they're on it.
It's quick enough and expensive enough.
It's an hour to Birmingham now, more or less.
HS2 knocks 10 minutes off the journey time.
Those in favour of the whole expense I hope the toilets don't work and the train breaks down when they're on it.
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Re: HS2
HS2 isn't just about travel times. It also takes strain off the current lines, and frees up capacity
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Re: HS2
Yeah, I only really started getting that once I'd looked into it a bit moreRoosterbooster wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:05 pmHS2 isn't just about travel times. It also takes strain off the current lines, and frees up capacity
Re: HS2
Before anyone else is thinking of posting on the subject may I suggest you set aside 30 minutes to listen to this chap who seems to know what he's talking about.
I found him very well informed on the subject of HS2 indeed.
Scroll down to the bottom for the interview:
https://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/ ... eth-dennis
I found him very well informed on the subject of HS2 indeed.
Scroll down to the bottom for the interview:
https://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/ ... eth-dennis
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Re: HS2
You voted for a Tory government, you got a Tory government.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:23 pmNo it's not.
I voted for one thing , I'm getting another.
In 1997 I voted for a left wing government. I got Tony Bliar......
So what was your "thinking" when you voted for a party that has a history of shitting on the northern working classes?RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:51 pmIt's almost as if I can't think for myself.
I can, and do.
As can be evidenced by my criticising a government that I voted for.
No need to answer btw, let's not make this thread about you. I should have known better than to reply to you in the first place.