Provoking the crowd.
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Provoking the crowd.
Palace players were standing taunting the crowd in the JM lower after scoring. This is obviously not going to end well and I’m not making any excuses for the disgusting abuse returned by our fans. The referee needs to stop this happening in my view and managers/players take some responsibility now.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Shall we stop players from being able to celebrate any goal? You know just in case they offend someone.Hbclaret007 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:58 amPalace players were standing taunting the crowd in the JM lower after scoring. This is obviously not going to end well and I’m not making any excuses for the disgusting abuse returned by our fans. The referee needs to stop this happening in my view and managers/players take some responsibility now.
It’s football it’s all part of the atmosphere
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Likewise if you are big enough to dish it out from the stands then when a player gives you a bit back they need to accept it
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Players have every right to give a little back to the crowd who are abusing them. But Zaha overstepped the line when he was visibly offering a fan out and encouraging them to come onto the pitch to fight him. A stronger ref would have shown him a second yellow card and sent him marching.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
No they don't nobody should abuse anybody & retaliating to it is just plain silly you don't correct 1 wrong with another wrong for justification.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:22 amPlayers have every right to give a little back to the crowd who are abusing them. But Zaha overstepped the line when he was visibly offering a fan out and encouraging them to come onto the pitch to fight him. A stronger ref would have shown him a second yellow card and sent him marching.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
You don’t think a player should be able to cup an ear to the crowd after scoring?Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:30 amNo they don't nobody should abuse anybody & retaliating to it is just plain silly you don't correct 1 wrong with another wrong for justification.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Of course fans should be able to take it when players respond to getting some stick. The fact is that some just can't.
Andersen's reaction seemed way over the top though.
Andersen's reaction seemed way over the top though.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
We’re talking about different things then aren’t we.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:33 amThat's hardly anything I'm talking about effing & jeffing & mouthing off, it depends on the level.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Always quite funny when a player is getting stick for whatever reason then gets his own back by scoring.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:32 amOf course fans should be able to take it when players respond to getting some stick. The fact is that some just can't.
Andersen's reaction seemed way over the top though.
We’ve had it for and against plenty of times.
Why some nondescript centre back felt the need to do that is anyone’s guess.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
I remember that pitch invader at Rovers taking on Westwood (the smallest player on the pitch) and getting completely ownedHbclaret007 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:09 amI would agree cupping an ear or even a V sign, but to stand there for some time, inciting the crowd to come an have a go, is over the top IMO.
Dare I suggest that the average footballer is a proper unit compared to the average idiot fan who might try to do something about it, and they are perfectly safe?
Plus I think Zaha is a diver, and I give him stick for it, but he'll just as entitled to do what he did as well
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Not sure he's entitled to do what he did, if he was enticing violence, its an offence.Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:12 amI remember that pitch invader at Rovers taking on Westwood (the smallest player on the pitch) and getting completely owned
Dare I suggest that the average footballer is a proper unit compared to the average idiot fan who might try to do something about it, and they are perfectly safe?
Plus I think Zaha is a diver, and I give him stick for it, but he'll just as entitled to do what he did as well
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Thats not inciting violence though is itBackofthenet wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:20 amNot sure he's entitled to do what he did, if he was enticing violence, its an offence.
Its posturing, just like the sad muppets who ran to the front of the stand (but no further, because they know they will be banned if they go on to the pitch) are posturing
It makes me shake my head sadly (in both cases)
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
wasnt Jayrod giving it some with the Chelsea players the other week?
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
I was going off post 4......Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:23 amThats not inciting violence though is it
Its posturing, just like the sad muppets who ran to the front of the stand (but no further, because they know they will be banned if they go on to the pitch) are posturing
It makes me shake my head sadly (in both cases)
Re: Provoking the crowd.
Very lucky not to get a second yellow in my opinion.
Wasn't just a quick gesture either, it was for a sustained period of about 15 -20 seconds.
And the crowd were giving him stick, as once again, Zaha showed himself up to be a complete tool with his fracas with Tarky.
Wasn't just a quick gesture either, it was for a sustained period of about 15 -20 seconds.
And the crowd were giving him stick, as once again, Zaha showed himself up to be a complete tool with his fracas with Tarky.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Nothing wrong with any player celebrating in front of the oppositions fans, whichever club. We do it as well.
All footballers get dogs abuse from the stands, when they get the chance to give a bit back, why not.
If you can't take it, you shouldn't dish it out, why anyone would get upset by it is beyond me.
All footballers get dogs abuse from the stands, when they get the chance to give a bit back, why not.
If you can't take it, you shouldn't dish it out, why anyone would get upset by it is beyond me.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
No problem with thatColburn_Claret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:45 amNothing wrong with any player celebrating in front of the oppositions fans, whichever club. We do it as well.
All footballers get dogs abuse from the stands, when they get the chance to give a bit back, why not.
If you can't take it, you shouldn't dish it out, why anyone would get upset by it is beyond me.
Inviting fans onto the pitch to fight is completely different
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
I mentioned this on another thread. Zaha repeatedly gave the "Come on then" gesture with his hands and the referee just stood and watched him. Zaha should have received a second yellow at least and maybe a straight red. Really bad from the officials who quite clearly saw him.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:22 amPlayers have every right to give a little back to the crowd who are abusing them. But Zaha overstepped the line when he was visibly offering a fan out and encouraging them to come onto the pitch to fight him. A stronger ref would have shown him a second yellow card and sent him marching.
No wonder that crowd trouble seems to be making a return.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Zaha is a very good player, makes you wonder what he is paid at Palace to keep him there but he is also a nasty piece of work. Displayed much of his repertoire on Saturday, so much so that his diving was overlooked. Add to that the most incompetent of officials and there was a recipe for something that ought to be reviewed. Still, the next incumbent of Old Trafford's hotseat means that is not even a consideration.Gordaleman wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:48 amI mentioned this on another thread. Zaha repeatedly gave the "Come on then" gesture with his hands and the referee just stood and watched him. Zaha should have received a second yellow at least and maybe a straight red. Really bad from the officials who quite clearly saw him.
No wonder that crowd trouble seems to be making a return.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Excusing crowd trouble by blaming it on a player?Gordaleman wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:48 amI mentioned this on another thread. Zaha repeatedly gave the "Come on then" gesture with his hands and the referee just stood and watched him. Zaha should have received a second yellow at least and maybe a straight red. Really bad from the officials who quite clearly saw him.
No wonder that crowd trouble seems to be making a return.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
The players can do what they like when there’s no capable officials
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Wasn't it Lonergan who flicked the V's at TM once?
Maybe during that 4-3 win of ours when Chris Iwelumo had a great game
Maybe during that 4-3 win of ours when Chris Iwelumo had a great game
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
It was. Great entertainment.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:23 amWasn't it Lonergan who flicked the V's at TM once?
Maybe during that 4-3 win of ours when Chris Iwelumo had a great game
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
As just mentioned Zaha is in the lowest echelons when it comes to behaviour on the pitch. He knew and knows exactly what he is doing. If a player persists in fouling and constantly gets away with it it understandably stirs the crowd. Zaha's behaviour is no less inflammatory but again incompetent officials, who can't even see when a ball has crossed a line for a throw-in are never going to deal with matters way beyond their ability.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
So, excusing crowd trouble on a player?Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:25 amAs just mentioned Zaha is in the lowest echelons when it comes to behaviour on the pitch. He knew and knows exactly what he is doing. If a player persists in fouling and constantly gets away with it it understandably stirs the crowd. Zaha's behaviour is no less inflammatory but again incompetent officials, who can't even see when a ball has crossed a line for a throw-in are never going to deal with matters way beyond their ability.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
If Zaha had offered me out, I’d have just shouted back “I work in quite often in London, I’ll look you up”
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
As has already been discussed, he's bigger, stronger and fitter than 99.9% of your average football fanelwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:34 amIf Zaha had offered me out, I’d have just shouted back “I work in quite often in London, I’ll look you up” and watch him **** himself.
Lets save the cartoon bravado for shouting at him from behind a barrier or a steward eh?
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
They don't grow muscle on their chin. Wallop.Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:36 amAs has already been discussed, he's bigger, stronger and fitter than 99.9% of your average football fan
Lets save the cartoon bravado for shouting at him from behind a barrier or a steward eh?
Only messing.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Not saying I shout at players, well I do but it’s usually ours and I would like to think I have never shouted anything that would justify abuse. For those that do I expect they would like a reply to nonsense as offering them out on the pitch… you threaten me during my off time I’ll threaten you back on you off time, when the rules aren’t stacked for your benefit… in this instance (if it occurred) Zaha is the one threatening from a position of safety. It’s all nonsense and doesn’t bother me in reality, as I’m already too upset after conceding to care how other players celebrate.Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:36 amAs has already been discussed, he's bigger, stronger and fitter than 99.9% of your average football fan
Lets save the cartoon bravado for shouting at him from behind a barrier or a steward eh?
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
I see what you are doing. Very good. You know perfectly well the point I'm attempting to make but seem hell bent on a stubborn stance.Let players behave in any way they choose then, managers too and see where that takes us. It's been drummed into them for years that players and managers have a huge responsibility on a sports field but is regularly ignored by those who think it doesn't apply to them.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Rules work both ways. Fans stay off the pitch, players stay on it for me.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Excusing the players behaviour? Seems you have blinkers on
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Genuinely mate, I don't get how you can blame a player for the behaviour of supportersSilkyskills1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:46 amI see what you are doing. Very good. You know perfectly well the point I'm attempting to make but seem hell bent on a stubborn stance.Let players behave in any way they choose then, managers too and see where that takes us. It's been drummed into them for years that players and managers have a huge responsibility on a sports field but is regularly ignored by those who think it doesn't apply to them.
Its up to us not to rise to a player being a knob
Essentially I'm seeing your argument as the basis for a defence of crowd trouble, and it isn't a defence under any circumstances
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Look if the crowd abuses a player sure it gets under his skin and just can't wait to rib the crowd back again , you only have to look at Vardy as he seems to win this more times then we do .
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Feel like I'm in a court of law not a message board. Pointless continuing. Have a good day.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
That because its not a defence under any circumstances, and the fan who runs on to the pitch to attack Zaha will blame Zaha for it, rather than his own inability to deal with itSilkyskills1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:22 pmFeel like I'm in a court of law not a message board. Pointless continuing. Have a good day.
When players give it the big one in front of me, they might get a "f**k off", the v's or outright laughter
Anymore than that is just so wrong its not even worth considering
And have a good day as well!
Re: Provoking the crowd.
You’re hardelwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:34 amIf Zaha had offered me out, I’d have just shouted back “I work in quite often in London, I’ll look you up”
Re: Provoking the crowd.
He was led in the back of the net with the V signs up I thinkGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:23 amWasn't it Lonergan who flicked the V's at TM once?
Maybe during that 4-3 win of ours when Chris Iwelumo had a great game
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
If Zaha was offering someone out on the pitch, and I'm sure those who witnessed it are telling the truth, then who was he offering out, and what had they said/done to him, to encourage it. I don't believe even he would be inspired to offer someone sat there watching the game a punch up at random.
If he had recieved a punishment for it, it would have been a victory for the crowd, and that just isn't right, as much as I dislike Zaha. Why we expect to hold professional footballers to a higher standard than ourselves is ridiculous.
If he had recieved a punishment for it, it would have been a victory for the crowd, and that just isn't right, as much as I dislike Zaha. Why we expect to hold professional footballers to a higher standard than ourselves is ridiculous.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Zaha gets a load of stick from us (and that is (I hope) because he is a blatant diver AND we know it affects his game)
He's perfectly entitled to give it back, and if he wants to offer out the entire stadium, then fair play to him
But again, he should be pointed at and laughed at, and the people running to the front of the stand to have a go should be pointed out and laughed at as well
He's perfectly entitled to give it back, and if he wants to offer out the entire stadium, then fair play to him
But again, he should be pointed at and laughed at, and the people running to the front of the stand to have a go should be pointed out and laughed at as well
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
It wouldn't be the first time...Backofthenet wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:02 pmExcusing the players behaviour? Seems you have blinkers on
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
this nonsense of ear cupping is unnecessary and embarrassing.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
I remember Andre Gray scoring our second then cupping his ears at us in the away end.. must be a bait-the-crowd thing when we're playing Palace
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
It's only my personal opinion, and it stems from a wish to build on whatever remnants of uniqueness we may still possess..
I'd love to see the front few rows all round the ground packed with the kind of shaven-headed, gap-toothed, baying-for-blood, anger-ridden, muscular tattooed and moderately drunk 30 something males.
And I'd have them so close to the pitch that the lino could smell their BO and the beer fumes.
Even if we have to hire them from the Turf Hotel and the Prinny.
Instead we have rows of empty seats and handfuls of solicitors, teachers, social workers and their kids.
Zaha ain't gonna worry about winding them up, not one bit.
I'd love to see the front few rows all round the ground packed with the kind of shaven-headed, gap-toothed, baying-for-blood, anger-ridden, muscular tattooed and moderately drunk 30 something males.
And I'd have them so close to the pitch that the lino could smell their BO and the beer fumes.
Even if we have to hire them from the Turf Hotel and the Prinny.
Instead we have rows of empty seats and handfuls of solicitors, teachers, social workers and their kids.
Zaha ain't gonna worry about winding them up, not one bit.
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
The high horse on which he permanently sits has an identical pair. .....Backofthenet wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:02 pmExcusing the players behaviour? Seems you have blinkers on
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
You still haven't commented on the real issue... Zaha gesticulating to people to join him on the pitch, for a fightLancasterclaret wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:44 pmZaha gets a load of stick from us (and that is (I hope) because he is a blatant diver AND we know it affects his game)
He's perfectly entitled to give it back, and if he wants to offer out the entire stadium, then fair play to him
But again, he should be pointed at and laughed at, and the people running to the front of the stand to have a go should be pointed out and laughed at as well
Right or wrong?
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
How is that not commenting on it?Backofthenet wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:17 pmYou still haven't commented on the real issue... Zaha gesticulating to people to join him on the pitch, for a fight
Right or wrong?
I've even said "Zaha should be pointed and laughed at for trying to offer out the entire ground"!
Pretty much all my posts comment on it as well
Next time you get all annoyed about it, point at him and laugh
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Re: Provoking the crowd.
Tell me where I 'Excused' crowd trouble? I didn't. But if you provoke it, it's not surprising if the knuckleheads react.
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