French football - problems with fan violence.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/french- ... ster-warns

I see Payet got hit by a bottle the other day, but there seems to be an ongoing issue with violence at games.

[Vegas Claret]

it's every country, every week. France, Holland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Scotland, England, Denmark, Sweden all the Eastern European countries without exception have issues every week in or outside the grounds. It seems people have collectively lost their minds during the pandemic. It's on twitter all the time

[elwaclaret]

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/french- ... ster-warns

I see Payet got hit by a bottle the other day, but there seems to be an ongoing issue with violence at games.

Always the case that football violence increases with economic downturns. We are just at the (relative) start a time of upheaval, we saw the rise of football violence in the late seventies through to the late 90’s, finally curtailed by improving the money in people’s pocket and moving football from a working class hobby to all seaters and more affluent support… moving football away from the unstable working class to the razzmatazz of middle class Premier League football. I expect unless things change we will start to see violence in the lower leagues that will spread eventually to the Premier League. People will look at fixing football instead of addressing the wider social issues and once again genuine football fans will be tarnished as a result.

[Vegas Claret]

Always the case that football violence increases with economic downturns. We are just at the (relative) start a time of upheaval, we saw the rise of football violence in the late seventies through to the late 90’s, finally curtailed by improving the money in people’s pocket and moving football from a working class hobby to all seaters and more affluent support… moving football away from the unstable working class to the razzmatazz of middle class Premier League football. I expect unless things change we will start to see violence in the lower leagues that will spread eventually to the Premier League. People will look at fixing football instead of addressing the wider social issues and once again genuine football fans will be tarnished as a result.

this week I've seen trouble at a Futsal game and an Ice Hockey game, I think you are spot on with your analysis of society

[minnieclaret]

On lunchtime news they were almost blaming Payet. Appears he wound fans up before being hit by a bottle in a separate incident recently and now he is being targetted.

[minnieclaret]

this week I've seen trouble at a Futsal game and an Ice Hockey game, I think you are spot on with your analysis of society

I’ve been receiving “watch”videos from FB showing horrendous crowd assaults at NFL games.
I certainly didn’t request them so I guess it is because they know I watch NFL.

[Hipper]

Always the case that football violence increases with economic downturns. We are just at the (relative) start a time of upheaval, we saw the rise of football violence in the late seventies through to the late 90’s, finally curtailed by improving the money in people’s pocket and moving football from a working class hobby to all seaters and more affluent support… moving football away from the unstable working class to the razzmatazz of middle class Premier League football. I expect unless things change we will start to see violence in the lower leagues that will spread eventually to the Premier League. People will look at fixing football instead of addressing the wider social issues and once again genuine football fans will be tarnished as a result.

I thought it had been shown that at least some of the perpetrators in the seventies were middle class types.

There have been a number of riots in the UK including in Burnley since the Taylor Report, mostly it seems by those left out of the consumer society. Were there equivalent disturbances at football matches?

[RalphCoatesComb]

It's every country, every week. France, Holland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Scotland, England, Denmark, Sweden all the Eastern European countries without exception have issues every week in or outside the grounds.

And, unfortunately, at t'Turf

Relax stewarding/ policing and f***wits, after a sniff of the barmaid's apron, will feel empowered to do what they like. Palace were disgraceful - even fighting amongst themselves!

[RalphCoatesComb]

I thought it had been shown that at least some of the perpetrators in the seventies were middle class types

A whole sub-set of criminology has been devoted to the "football hooligan" (Steve Redhead, Clifford Stott, Chris Brown et al.).

As an outsider to such behaviour, I consider them to be merely criminals.

[elwaclaret]

I thought it had been shown that at least some of the perpetrators in the seventies were middle class types.

There have been a number of riots in the UK including in Burnley since the Taylor Report, mostly it seems by those left out of the consumer society. Were there equivalent disturbances at football matches?

Organised hooliganism developed from increased awareness and Police counter measures. Hooliganism arrived in the mid seventies and by the winter of discontent the Police were removing newspapers which could be folded into batons and bricks (Chelsea brick, if memory serves), at many grounds Doc Martin boots had to be removed before entry. Clockwork orange wannabe’s in white overalls and bowler hats were pretty easy to spot and it was clear where the pockets of trouble were likely to occur. Later it got much more organised which is when the middle class thugs started organising meeting places away from the ground, but that was more from the mid 80’s from memory. West Ham quickly went from Community sing song club to Neo-Nazi Skinhead Club, the East End was the working class heavy industry area of the capitol and saw similar developments all through the industrial areas as major industries closed more and more people needed football tribalism as a focus of their humdrum poverty stricken lives.

[RalphCoatesComb]

Organised hooliganism developed from increased awareness and Police counter measures. Hooliganism arrived in the mid seventies

Whilst "The Firms" may have flourished during the 70's, there is a school of thought that suggests that winning the World Cup kicked it off in England. Thugs were looking for something to so and practice their thuggery; football provided the perfect vehicle for it.

There is a lot of sociological claptrap written about football hooliganism but, one thing is for sure, it needs stamping out before someone is killed

[elwaclaret]

Whilst "The Firms" may have flourished during the 70's, there is a school of thought that suggests that winning the World Cup kicked it off in England. Thugs were looking for something to so and practice their thuggery; football provided the perfect vehicle for it.

There is a lot of sociological claptrap written about football hooliganism but, one thing is for sure, it needs stamping out before someone is killed

Not arguing with you sentiment Ralph. Youth culture is generally a working class youth kickback… Teddy Boys, Mods, later Rockers became a recognised sub culture long before Punks and Skinheads. Football was a natural outlet to continue the downward societal spiral. Riot and Rebellion is a fairly new field of academic study, but the Peoples History Museum in Manchester is a fabulous resource, not only because it is the only museum in the country dedicated to the Working Class but because they hold all the historical correspondence of the Labour Party along with minor parties, including the National Front (though you need special access to see those). It is far from making excuses it is part of understanding the rapture that occurred in the seventies and into the 80’s when heavy industry in the country was culled as a way of breaking the Red block and breaking Union power.

[Targetman]

Football hooliganism arrived well before the mid-seventies. There were various incidents of trouble at Turf Moor in the mid to late 60's, I witnessed them.

I was at secondary school around that time and remember when stealing football scarves from opposing fans became very widespread. From memory violence at games seemed to begin also in that era.

[elwaclaret]

Football hooliganism arrived well before the mid-seventies. There were various incidents of trouble at Turf Moor in the mid to late 60's, I witnessed them.

I was at secondary school around that time and remember when stealing football scarves from opposing fans became very widespread. From memory violence at games seemed to begin also in that era.

Yes it was the first reactions to the fall of industry that started biting after World War Two. The fifties saw recovery and a whole generation that did not expect to go to war. The rot had started, World War One had smashed Britain’s industrial dominance, World War Two plunged Britain into massive debt that needed repaying to America… part of the reason Wilson was betweeen rock and a hard place over Vietnam. Britain refused, America turned the screw and livelihoods suffered. There were plenty of jobs but increasingly they we’re low paid and transitory (sound familiar). So yes football violence was part of the same mind set that led to young Jewish tailor apprentices creating the Modernist (jazz based) Mod youth culture, following the peaceful middle class student reaction that created the Beatniks and reaction to them; working class Teddy boys. The Edwardian craze that harked back to the gang violence of the 1870’s- through to the outbreak of war… a period touched upon by Peaky Blinders, Manchester had several gangs and quite often fatalities across (I think) 4main gangs, but all cities were the same. Football violence has a very long and varied history but awareness of ‘football’ violence became recognised as an independent thing in the seventies.

[elwaclaret]

As an aside those fascinated with life around Lancashire at the time of Peaky Blinders should look out for a great piece of social history of everyday life in Blackburn, The Road to Nab End - William Woodruff, is a fascinating and easily readable resource that really brings Lancashire life at the time to light.