Time for a formation change

[ClaretMov]

442 isn't working with 1 win in 17 and only 5 wins in the last 33 league game's

[Newcastleclaret93]

Change it to what though? We have so little quality on the ball it limits our ability to play any other way

[Jamesy]

Change it to what though? We have so little quality on the ball it limits our ability to play any other way

The lack of quality on the ball is due to not having enough effective midfield players.

[NewClaret]

Definitely time for something.

Dyche gets paid big money & can’t really expect to keep playing the same formation/team and get a different result.

I’ve been a big praise of Lowton all season & he’s done nothing wrong at all but might be time to try Roberts. That throw alone is a decent threat for us whilst scrapping for points.

[minnieclaret]

Pope
Collins..Tarks..Mee
Roberts..Brownhill..McNeil..Westwood..Taylor
Wood..Cornet

From somewhere we have to get goals from midfield. Abysmal doesn’t get close to how bad we are at that.

[ClaretMov]

If fit, Cornet and Gudmundsson out wide McNeil in behind the front two for a start

At the moment My team if the available players are fit v West Ham would be

.............................Pope.........................

........Collins.....Tarkowski.....Mee..........

Roberts..Brownhill..Westwood..Taylor

........................McNeil..........................

...........Vydra..................Wood.............

[Jamesy]

I can see that Lowton doesn’t figure in either of these suggested line ups/formations. For me he hasn’t done a lot wrong this season, however if Roberts could give us more attacking options down the right like Charlie does down the left then I can see the merits in ClaretMovs suggestion. What is clear, is it is time for Dyche to try a new approach as we are so stale and pedestrian at present.

[BleedingClaret]

Ultimately it’s about the quality of the players on the pitch
Liverpool and Man City
Play 10 0 0 when defending
And then play 0 0 10 when attacking

Best 10 outfield players in a 442 or 532 343 it doesn’t change how they’d play you chase the ball and defend if they have it or attack if you have it

Best 11 mix of quality & physicality
Pope
Roberts
Tarks
Mee
Collins
Taylor
JBG -
Westwood -
Cornet
Vydra -
Wood -

Subs
Lowton out of form
McNeil not attacking turns back & doesn’t defend well
Cork excellent footballer lacks physicality at this level
Brownhill not progressed anonymous now
Jay Rod like Cork quality but lacks physicality at this level

[RVclaret]

If fit, Cornet and Gudmundsson out wide McNeil in behind the front two for a start

At the moment My team if the available players are fit v West Ham would be

.............................Pope.........................

........Collins.....Tarkowski.....Mee..........

Roberts..Brownhill..Westwood..Taylor

........................McNeil..........................

...........Vydra..................Wood.............

Don't mind this to be fair.

Could be a good chance to try it against a West Ham side that we are flying at the min anyway.

Only thing you really need in this formation is the centre halves to carry the ball out at times, usually the RCB and LCB - is Mee up to doing that?

[Slurpy]

Not sure Collins and Mee are good enough on the ball to play 3 at the back as they can't step in

[Jamesy]

Ultimately it’s about the quality of the players on the pitch
Liverpool and Man City
Play 10 0 0 when defending
And then play 0 0 10 when attacking

Best 10 outfield players in a 442 or 532 343 it doesn’t change how they’d play you chase the ball and defend if they have it or attack if you have it

Best 11 mix of quality & physicality
Pope
Roberts
Tarks
Mee
Collins
Taylor
JBG -
Westwood -
Cornet
Vydra -
Wood -

Subs
Lowton out of form
McNeil not attacking turns back & doesn’t defend well
Cork excellent footballer lacks physicality at this level
Brownhill not progressed anonymous now
Jay Rod like Cork quality but lacks physicality at this level

No mention of Aaron Lennon in the above squad?

[ClaretMov]

Not sure Collins and Mee are good enough on the ball to play 3 at the back as they can't step in

Roberts and Taylor drop back and link the defence to the midfield

[TheFamilyCat]

I'd tempted to go 4-3-2-1

Pope

Roberts (as I think he would provide more attacking threat than Lowton)
Mee
Tarks
Taylor

Cork
Westwood
Brownhill

Cornet
McNeil

Wood

Cornet and McNeil in free roles, Taylor and Roberts providing the width. An extra man in midfield to shore up when the full backs go forward.

[warksclaret]

Sadly a change in formation won't happen. However continuing to play the same starting 11 will not get us out of relegation. I think there is a reason Roberts came on yesterday. Its time for SD to protect himself. Before the "Lowton has done nothing wrong" brigade come on. we are in a desperate situation. Roberts comes with a good pedigree, has a great engine and will probably put more crosses into the box in 90 minutes than McNeil, JBG and Taylor combined. We need as a minimum to start with our best 11 and thats a job for SD to resolve. I can see why Tarks wants to maybe move on in June but I would keep him in the team. However our captain Mee has gone under the radar and whilst Collins is playing as well as he is I would keep him in the team whilst Ben deliberates over his contract. He is after all much quicker than Ben

[KRBFC]

After all these years have been still not figured out Gudmundsson's a poor footballer?

[claretgimmer]

I thought that JBG had his best game for a couple of seasons yesterday, very reminiscent of the old JBG that took players on and run at them, will it last I don`t know but playing like that he deserves to start

[Rileybobs]

However our captain Mee has gone under the radar and whilst Collins is playing as well as he is I would keep him in the team whilst Ben deliberates over his contract. He is after all much quicker than Ben

Is Collins much quicker than Mee?

[BleedingClaret]

No mention of Aaron Lennon in the above squad?

No
I’d put myself in first

[warksclaret]

Is Collins much quicker than Mee?

Definitely-its Ben's positioning that gets him out of trouble. Would say Ben is the slowest member of the first team

[Stayingup]

After all these years have been still not figured out Gudmundsson's a poor footballer?

Yes and Vydra though he has pace and gets in good positions is not a good finisher. Gudmundssons floated left foot crosses from the right wing are just gobbled up by the opposing defenders.

[CombatClaret]

When you're in a raft halfway across a river it's not the time to start building a bridge instead.

With the players we have, we're a one-system club, the one that's seen us survive the past few seasons. The only hope we have is it clicks, to panic and try new things we're not accustomed to will likely only see us do worse. Do worse than losing people will say? We've been close, we've lead games, it needs something but wholesale changes I don't are the answer despite the urge to shout "Do Something!".

[davetheclaret]

If fit, Cornet and Gudmundsson out wide McNeil in behind the front two for a start

At the moment My team if the available players are fit v West Ham would be

.............................Pope.........................

........Collins.....Tarkowski.....Mee..........

Roberts..Brownhill..Westwood..Taylor

........................McNeil..........................

...........Vydra..................Wood.............

Hard on Lowton but with what we have i would play this sort of side or maybe a 4231 but id have McNeil more central to run with the ball, Dyche is trying to get him more central by allowing him to move inside when the ball is out wide right, i think McNeil needs a free role to run at sides put other players in and to be able to shoot at goal a lot more more.

[boatshed bill]

Hard on Lowton but with what we have i would play this sort of side or maybe a 4231 but id have McNeil more central to run with the ball, Dyche is trying to get him more central by allowing him to move inside when the ball is out wide right, i think McNeil needs a free role to run at sides put other players in and to be able to shoot at goal a lot more more.

Interesting about McNeil.
We really don't have anyone in midfield to pick up the ball and run at pace at the opposition.
Not sure that McNeil has the pace, but maybe worth a try.

[Newcastleclaret93]

If fit, Cornet and Gudmundsson out wide McNeil in behind the front two for a start

At the moment My team if the available players are fit v West Ham would be

.............................Pope.........................

........Collins.....Tarkowski.....Mee..........

Roberts..Brownhill..Westwood..Taylor

........................McNeil..........................

...........Vydra..................Wood.............

Don’t know how many times it has to be said but that formation would be an absolute disaster.

We haven’t got any CBS with speed or the passing ability.

We haven’t got CMs that can retain the ball.

Our wing backs haven’t got the quality of cross to make it work.

[RVclaret]

Don’t know how many times it has to be said but that formation would be an absolute disaster.

We haven’t got any CBS with speed or the passing ability.

We haven’t got CMs that can retain the ball.

Our wing backs haven’t got the quality of cross to make it work.

Don’t think cb’s necessarily need speed, more so good passing ability to play line breaking passes and/or comfortable with breaking forward themselves. Roberts created the second most chances in the Championship last season from this position as well as plays there for Wales. Either this or go with 4-4-1-1 using McNeil as a 10. However with Cornet now out there aren’t any left wingers to take over from Dwight there.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Don’t think cb’s necessarily need speed, more so good passing ability to play line breaking passes and/or comfortable with breaking forward themselves. Roberts created the second most chances in the Championship last season from this position as well as plays there for Wales. Either this or go with 4-4-1-1 using McNeil as a 10. However with Cornet now out there aren’t any left wingers to take over from Dwight there.

They need speed when defending, they have to cover the wide areas when the full backs push forward.

[ClaretMov]

Don’t know how many times it has to be said but that formation would be an absolute disaster.

We haven’t got any CBS with speed or the passing ability.

We haven’t got CMs that can retain the ball.

Our wing backs haven’t got the quality of cross to make it work.

Yet our fantastic 442 system works brilliant with 1 win in 17 and just 5 wins in 33

[Newcastleclaret93]

Yet our fantastic 442 system works brilliant with 1 win in 17 and just 5 wins in 33

At least that system plays to our strengths. Imagine one that plays to our weaknesses

[ksrclaret]

I posted yesterday that I think we have the players now to go to a 352 formation
Pope
Collins Tarkowski Mee
Roberts Westwood Cork McNeil Taylor
Wood Rodriguez

Would obviously require work on the training ground to get used to the patterns of play since we've been drilled into a rudimentary 442 for so long.

If that seems like too much of a risk, then we could move to a 433. This 442 business though just isn't working and our inability to keep the ball for more than 3 seconds will see us relegated. The evidence is staring us right in the face. We simply must gain some control of the midfield to take the pressure off the defence and to prevent the strikers from expending all of their energy chasing into the shadows.
Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Taylor
Westwood Cork McNeil
Roberts Wood Gudmundsson

We've probably seen the last of Cornet until after the ACON, if he goes.

[KlyBfc]

If we were to play 3 cbs I’d be playing Charlie Taylor on the left of the three. Taylor is very good defender, covers the ground well and is decent on the ball and 1v1. Mee would get ruined with all that space for people to run at him. Also As good a full back as Taylor is I’m not convinced he’s got the attributes to be an effective wingback. To do it well it is very different to being a fullback.

Anyway it won’t change…

[warksclaret]

I posted yesterday that I think we have the players now to go to a 352 formation
Pope
Collins Tarkowski Mee
Roberts Westwood Cork McNeil Taylor
Wood Rodriguez

Would obviously require work on the training ground to get used to the patterns of play since we've been drilled into a rudimentary 442 for so long.

If that seems like too much of a risk, then we could move to a 433. This 442 business though just isn't working and our inability to keep the ball for more than 3 seconds will see us relegated. The evidence is staring us right in the face. We simply must gain some control of the midfield to take the pressure off the defence and to prevent the strikers from expending all of their energy chasing into the shadows.
Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Taylor
Westwood Cork McNeil
Roberts Wood Gudmundsson

We've probably seen the last of Cornet until after the ACON, if he goes.

All makes sense .No other teams in the PL play 442 with just two CM's. Just two CM's just cannot cope in the PL and get over run.We are trying to do it with someone in his twilight years and the other who is willing and competitive but does not have the skills. Its a big failing we never used pre-season to experiment with other formations. We may go 451 but SD is fixated on it and will not go with anything else

[Newcastleclaret93]

I posted yesterday that I think we have the players now to go to a 352 formation
Pope
Collins Tarkowski Mee
Roberts Westwood Cork McNeil Taylor
Wood Rodriguez

Would obviously require work on the training ground to get used to the patterns of play since we've been drilled into a rudimentary 442 for so long.

If that seems like too much of a risk, then we could move to a 433. This 442 business though just isn't working and our inability to keep the ball for more than 3 seconds will see us relegated. The evidence is staring us right in the face. We simply must gain some control of the midfield to take the pressure off the defence and to prevent the strikers from expending all of their energy chasing into the shadows.
Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Taylor
Westwood Cork McNeil
Roberts Wood Gudmundsson

We've probably seen the last of Cornet until after the ACON, if he goes.

We are now opting to play Roberts RW?

I would be opting for something similar to the above team but a slight change:

Pope
Lowton, Tarks, mee, Taylor
Cork, Westwood, McNeil
Jay Rod, Wood, Gudmundsson

[boatshed bill]

At least that system plays to our strengths. Imagine one that plays to our weaknesses

That's like comparing something with nothing.
There is no proof it wouldn't work.

But forget rigid formations:
I just wish we'd match some teams with an extra man in midfield when it's obvious we are getting over-run.

[ksrclaret]

We are now opting to play Roberts RW?

I would be opting for something similar to the above team but a slight change:

Pope
Lowton, Tarks, mee, Taylor
Cork, Westwood, McNeil
Jay Rod, Wood, Gudmundsson

"We" are not opting to do anything at this point. I am simply suggesting a possible line up to move us away from the ineffectual 442.

I realise playing Roberts RW might not be ideal, but a combination of a lack of options and my belief that it's not too dissimilar a position as he's played before (you'll have to look beyond the fact his previous role was given a different name) lead me to put it forward.

[ClaretAL]

There are some great ideas on here, however Dyche will not move away from 442, so no point discussing it. On the flip side its worked every year, and kept us up every year, so what do we know...

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I know ablue said years ago to put Tarks in midfield, not a bad shout at moment, could play Collins in his place with Mee and leave Westwood to do the forward play, would certainly firm up the tackling part of the midfield which seems non existant at the moment.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

4-4-2 obv not working as usual, should be 4-5-1 with Vydra as a ten with either Cornet, Rodriguez or Wood up top.

[ClaretMov]

At least that system plays to our strengths. Imagine one that plays to our weaknesses

We don't know what our weaknesses are or if we have any other strengths because we've never played anything else but 442 for 99.9% of the time under Dyche, and for those that will come back with its kept us up and it got us into Europe blah blah blah, yes it did but its not working now and hasn't worked for almost a season's worth of league games how long can it go on, until we are relegated ????

[Newcastleclaret93]

We don't know what our weaknesses are or if we have any other strengths because we've never played anything else but 442 for 99.9% of the time under Dyche, and for those that will come back with its kept us up and it got us into Europe blah blah blah, yes it did but its not working now and hasn't worked for almost a season's worth of league games how long can it go on, until we are relegated ????

Off course we know what our strengths and weaknesses are.

We can’t pass the ball and we can’t beat a man. We play transitional football and try to win the second balls because 9 out of our 11 first team have very little quality on the ball.

Changing to a formation that depends on ball retention would be suicide. It would be like asking pope to play like Ederson.

[Rileybobs]

I know ablue said years ago to put Tarks in midfield, not a bad shout at moment, could play Collins in his place with Mee and leave Westwood to do the forward play, would certainly firm up the tackling part of the midfield which seems non existant at the moment.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

4-4-2 obv not working as usual, should be 4-5-1 with Vydra as a ten with either Cornet, Rodriguez or Wood up top.

Tarkowski in midfield now? Jesus did weep.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Tarkowski in midfield now? Jesus did weep.

we are only 1 shout away from this midfield next Sunday

Roberts Tarks Westwood Pieters

[warksclaret]

We need to be mindful of SD's resistance to deviating from 442. However when we are battling to get in the game he has played 3 up front in the last stage of the game, so a 433 is more possible, but bring Roberts in at RB and give him freedom with Taylor to push on. Three in midfield ie Cork, Westwood, Brownhill, with Cork in front of the back four. Then the 3 up front of Cornet, Wood, McNeil

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

We need to be mindful of SD's resistance to deviating from 442. However when we are battling to get in the game he has played 3 up front in the last stage of the game, so a 433 is more possible, but bring Roberts in at RB and give him freedom with Taylor to push on. Three in midfield ie Cork, Westwood, Brownhill, with Cork in front of the back four. Then the 3 up front of Cornet, Wood, McNeil

Tbh i think we should be packing the midfield and trying to get a few 1-0 wins, we would get ripped apart in a 4-3-3 as our midfield is too powder puff. If we had the calibre of Liverpools players then it would be okay.

[warksclaret]

Tbh i think we should be packing the midfield and trying to get a few 1-0 wins, we would get ripped apart in a 4-3-3 as our midfield is too powder puff. If we had the calibre of Liverpools players then it would be okay.

So what is your starting 11

[KRBFC]

I'd park the bus and try nick something, we're wide open and hopeless at the minute.

Pope
Collins Tark Mee
Roberts Brownhill Mcneil Westwood Taylor
Wood Cornet

[warksclaret]

I'd park the bus and try nick something, we're wide open and hopeless at the minute.

Pope
Collins Tark Mee
Roberts Brownhill Mcneil Westwood Taylor
Wood Cornet

I like it, but never going to happen with SD

[KRBFC]

I like it, but never going to happen with SD

We played 5 at the back away at Spurs a couple of years ago and lost 1-0, pretty sure it was a late scruffy goal.

[KRBFC]

Spurs away 2018, we played 541.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46491855

[Newcastleclaret93]

Spurs away 2018, we played 541.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46491855

That must have our most expensive bench ever? Close to 50-55m

[Colburn_Claret]

‐‐---‐------‐---------------Pope----------------------
Roberts------Tarks---------Mee-----Taylor
-----‐-------------------------Collins-----------------
Brownhill-----------Westwood--------McNeil
-------------------Wood----------Cornet--------------

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

So what is your starting 11

Im not giving my secrets away, ive already said what my team would be in my replies on this thread.