Australia v England - 2nd Ashes Test

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:56 am

Steve1956 wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:43 am
Are the others?

Root and Stokes would probably get in most other international sides, but the rest of the batters no chance.

SydneyClaret · Post by **SydneyClaret** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:01 am

Hopefully now that storm has saved us from batting under the lights we can pick up tomorrow and get to 300 at least.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:08 am

SydneyClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:01 am
Hopefully now that storm has saved us from batting under the lights we can pick up tomorrow and get to 300 at least.

Hmm! no excuses if we're batting in good conditions, but England seem to have basically thrown the towel in already.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:09 am

bodge wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:34 am
You shouldn't have an opening bat caught at mid on to a shot like that early doors in a test match.

The hardest shot in cricket is the on drive along the floor. You have to be in great knick to play it.

So why play it so early I just don't know?

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:13 am

SydneyClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:01 am
Hopefully now that storm has saved us from batting under the lights we can pick up tomorrow and get to 300 at least.

We may reach 300 after we have followed on and struggle to rescue the test from an innings defeat. We are losing Root early away from another all out for sub 200 innings. Surely that has to be the end for Burns now. 17 runs in 3 innings for a test match opener is a pathetic total.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:17 am

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:13 am
We may reach 300 after we have followed on and struggle to rescue the test from an innings defeat. We are losing Root early away from another all out for sub 200 innings. Surely that has to be the end for Burns now. 17 runs in 3 innings for a test match opener is a pathetic total.

Sadly you're probably right, I agree on Burns, however the obvious question is who on earth replaces him, the cupboard is incredibly bare I'm afraid.

And Hameed hasn't done himself any favours with that shot either, Oh! for the days when we had reliable openers.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:29 am

Focus is on white ball cricket, one day, 20/20, 100 and the like. Walk in and swing from the off. It seems England batsmen are unable/unwilling to adapt their style to the long game that is test match cricket. The Aussies seem to know how to do it, patience, dig in, defend, don't play at balls that are missing the stumps and punish the bad ball. Of which there were plenty with all the short pitched stuff we have been sending down.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:32 am

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:29 am
Focus is on white ball cricket, one day, 20/20, 100 and the like. Walk in and swing from the off. It seems England batsmen are unable/unwilling to adapt their style to the long game that is test match cricket. The Aussies seem to know how to do it, patience, dig in, defend, don't play at balls that are missing the stumps and punish the bad ball. Of which there were plenty with all the short pitched stuff we have been sending down.

Spot on the money this, it's only a couple of months ago that Australia and New Zealand contested the T20 WC final, and both those nations seem to be able to adapt to whichever format they're competing in at the given time, so you have to question why England can't do likewise.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:39 am

Ben Stokes "Tomorrow is going to be a good day for batting. Australia showed us once you get in, it's pretty hard to get out"

And England showed us that no matter how good a day it is for batting, the opening batsmen manage to lose their wickets before they have chance to "get in". Still Burns and Hameed will get another chance tomorrow to show us just how hard it is to get out after we lose 8 wickets before the tea interval.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:39 am

Time for Silverwood to join Burns on the flight home

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:46 am

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:39 am
Time for Silverwood to join Burns on the flight home

Indeed England appear to be going backwards since he took the reins, definitely time to wield the axe and clear out the deadwood.

I for one am heartily fed up with the constant excuses emanating from the England camp, time for our senior players to step up to the plate.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:47 am

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:29 am
Focus is on white ball cricket, one day, 20/20, 100 and the like. Walk in and swing from the off. It seems England batsmen are unable/unwilling to adapt their style to the long game that is test match cricket. The Aussies seem to know how to do it, patience, dig in, defend, don't play at balls that are missing the stumps and punish the bad ball. Of which there were plenty with all the short pitched stuff we have been sending down.

Do Burns and Hameed play much white ball cricket?

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:08 pm

Burns played T20 cricket this summer, ESPN shows him playing 63 T20 games and 57 1 day games. My comment was aimed at England batsmen in general but given the repeated failure of the opening 2 the focus has to be on their selection.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:12 pm

tiger76 wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:32 am
Spot on the money this, it's only a couple of months ago that Australia and New Zealand contested the T20 WC final, and both those nations seem to be able to adapt to whichever format they're competing in at the given time, so you have to question why England can't do likewise.

It has to come down to coaching, and leadership.
We as amateurs can see all the flaws in our test match technique, and it's been the same for a long time, yet nobody takes them to one side and tells them to change. It's mentality as much as ability, yet when it comes to it we are very weak.
Chris Silverwood should get a lot more stick than he does, I criticise Southgate, he'd be hung drawn and quartered if the football team were as bad as this test team.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:13 pm

Tim Wigmore on Twitter

“ Jimmy Anderson, Stuart Broad and Chris Woakes in the 1st innings at Adelaide in 2017: 88-20-230-4

Jimmy Anderson, Stuart Broad and Chris Woakes in the 1st innings at Adelaide in 2021: 78.4-22-234-4

Four years of Ashes planning to get... nowhere at all.”

A very accurate review and scary how poor our leadership is at test level.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:57 am

A decent morning so far.

127 run partnership at a decent scoring rate.

Both Root and Malan with 50s.

SydneyClaret · Post by **SydneyClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:19 am

Much better than I actually expected. Maybe, just maybe that 300+ is achievable.

SydneyClaret · Post by **SydneyClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:31 am

Oh well that’s it. The start of the inevitable batting collapse. Hope we can avoid the follow on.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:35 am

Fully expecting a collapse and follow on

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:50 am

Pope gone. He’s another that’s had enough chances. Him and Burns out the next one please.

SydneyClaret · Post by **SydneyClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:05 am

Looking very very grim now. If the Aussies make us follow on under the lights this will be over early in to tomorrow.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:08 am

Buttler goes for a duck. He can also make way for Foakes in the next one.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:09 am

Are they just showing a repeat of our second innings from the last test??

SMClaret · Post by **SMClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:18 am

This is absolutely spineless. Changes needed immediately, but it'll be too little too late.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:24 am

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:08 am
Buttler goes for a duck. He can also make way for Foakes in the next one.

I'm not sure Buttler is the main issue. When you have an opener averaging less than 6 (yes 6!!!!!) in this series, and us often being into the middle order still 300+ behind, then Buttler is left in a bit of tricky situation. The bowlers are under no pressure, and therefore Buttler's strengths are diminished. I'm not sure it matters who's at 6 or 7 when they are left in this sort of mess. We look absolutely clueless as a batting lineup

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:41 am

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:24 am
I'm not sure Buttler is the main issue. When you have an opener averaging less than 6 (yes 6!!!!!) in this series, and us often being into the middle order still 300+ behind, then Buttler is left in a bit of tricky situation. The bowlers are under no pressure, and therefore Buttler's strengths are diminished. I'm not sure it matters who's at 6 or 7 when they are left in this sort of mess. We look absolutely clueless as a batting lineup

His keeping has been pretty poor though too. Foakes would do a much better job at that and no worse with the bat. Agree though the batting line up is poor, Malan gets some credit and Stokes has had a year out but the two openers plus Pope/Buttler are not good enough.

SMClaret · Post by **SMClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:41 am

I agree opener is the main issue.

I'd also say though that Buttler looks absolutely shot. His body language while keeping yesterday was of a man so low on confidence, and that transferred to his batting as soon as he walked out. There was no fight from him and he wafted his bat several times until he nicked one.

It's clear just from body language there's no belief in this team, so no matter what changes we makes this series has gone, already. But we need changes, need to be looking forward and most importantly need to at least show some fight. So I'd personally be starting with coach and captain.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:21 am

We don't have the ability to put a Test innings together anymore.
Not against a decent side.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:26 am

This is exactly what I meant the other day about Root. This is the difference between really good batsmen and truly great ones.

The truly great ones turn them 50s into century’s when there team needs them the most.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:41 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:26 am
This is exactly what I meant the other day about Root. This is the difference between really good batsmen and truly great ones.

The truly great ones turn them 50s into century’s when there team needs them the most.

Like many others, I've been critical of Root for a while for the number of times he doesn't convert 50's.

Twice more in the last two innings is very frustrating, especially after the year he has when he has converted more frequently.

He would still be in our best team of the 21st century though.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:48 am

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:41 am
Like many others, I've been critical of Root for a while for the number of times he doesn't convert 50's.

Twice more in the last two innings is very frustrating, especially after the year he has when he has converted more frequently.

He would still be in our best team of the 21st century though.

Fair comment, he doesn’t get in mine.

Mine would be:

Strauss
Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Stokes
Flintoff
Prior
Swann
Broad
Anderson

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:01 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:48 am
Fair comment, he doesn’t get in mine.

Mine would be:

Strauss
Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Stokes
Flintoff
Prior
Swann
Broad
Anderson

Good team but

Trott test average 44, runs scored 3845.

Root test average 50.1, runs scored 9367.

You will probably try to say Trott faced better bowlers which I don’t really agree anyway. Plus Root has played with an absolutely crap batting line up most of the time so has been doing it on his own.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:04 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:48 am
Fair comment, he doesn’t get in mine.

Mine would be:

Strauss
Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Stokes
Flintoff
Prior
Swann
Broad
Anderson

We all like different players but it's a bit harsh to leave out someone averaging 50.

SydneyClaret · Post by **SydneyClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:08 am

A disgrace when the tailenders are batting better than the openers.

SydneyClaret · Post by **SydneyClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:10 am

If I was Aussie now I’d be putting England to bat under the lights knowing for sure Burns will be out before end of play.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:14 am

Aussies giving their bowlers a rest

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:15 am

SydneyClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:10 am
If I was Aussie now I’d be putting England to bat under the lights knowing for sure Burns will be out before end of play.

The only trouble with that is, if by miraculous chance we actually batted alright then their bowlers would be bowling over 200 overs straight.
Teams very rarely bat as bad 2nd time round when failing first time round.

If they knock England round now, under the lights we have nothing left to give.

SydneyClaret · Post by **SydneyClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:15 am

Let’s hope it bites them. All out for 50. Wishful thinking.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:24 am

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:01 am
Good team but

Trott test average 44, runs scored 3845.

Root test average 50.1, runs scored 9367.

You will probably try to say Trott faced better bowlers which I don’t really agree anyway. Plus Root has played with an absolutely crap batting line up most of the time so has been doing it on his own.

Fair comment but when Trott was at his peak and wasn’t suffering from mental health problems I think he was arguably the best in the world.

I am also adamant that the bowing is considerably worse now than it has ever been over the last 20 years.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:35 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:24 am
Fair comment but when Trott was at his peak and wasn’t suffering from mental health problems I think he was arguably the best in the world.

I am also adamant that the bowing is considerably worse now than it has ever been over the last 20 years.

Who were the great bowlers bowling to trott?

I think the big names had retired by then.

Maybe Steyn?

BigChaCha · Post by **BigChaCha** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:35 am

This is exactly what I meant the other day about Root. This is the difference between really good batsmen and truly great ones.

Utter nonsense and the last English batsman you should be having a go at! He's ranked number one in the world, playing mainly in a country, in England, where it is an absolute nightmare to get runs and has been carrying England over the last year at least, as well as trying to captain a shower of shite! It is amazing that his average is as good as it is, in a team where he is constantly putting out fires and his average would be even better if he played in a half-decent team... Imagine what his average would be if he played for Australia or India with the solid platform they would give him!

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:06 am

Credit to Malan & Root AGAIN, but as for the rest useless doesn't do them justice.

This collapse is even worse then the 1st test, perfect track to bat on, and a weaker Aussie attack, yet still England squander a promising position.

Harris and Warner putting the conditions into context with their steady opening stand, and the lead will already be around 300 by the close.

For all those criticising Root, remember he often walks to the crease with the ball only a few overs old, compare that to Smith in this series who's had the luxury of coming in after a big partnership twice now, therefore facing an older ball, and an attack that's tiring.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:14 am

BigChaCha wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:35 am
Utter nonsense and the last English batsman you should be having a go at! He's ranked number one in the world, playing mainly in a country, in England, where it is an absolute nightmare to get runs and has been carrying England over the last year at least, as well as trying to captain a shower of shite! It is amazing that his average is as good as it is, in a team where he is constantly putting out fires and his average would be even better if he played in a half-decent team... Imagine what his average would be if he played for Australia or India with the solid platform they would give him!

Very well said

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:15 am

A run out!

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:16 am

We will be batting under the lights tomorrow
Probably be all over tomorrow and if not the Aussies won’t have much to do on the last day

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:18 am

DAVETHEVICAR wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:16 am
We will be batting under the lights tomorrow
Probably be all over tomorrow and if not the Aussies won’t have much to do on the last day

You think we’ll last that long?

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:20 am

HA, HA a wicket, but far too late too make any difference.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:23 am

tiger76 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:06 am
Credit to Malan & Root AGAIN, but as for the rest useless doesn't do them justice.

This collapse is even worse then the 1st test, perfect track to bat on, and a weaker Aussie attack, yet still England squander a promising position.

Harris and Warner putting the conditions into context with their steady opening stand, and the lead will already be around 300 by the close.

For all those criticising Root, remember he often walks to the crease with the ball only a few overs old, compare that to Smith in this series who's had the luxury of coming in after a big partnership twice now, therefore facing an older ball, and an attack that's tiring.

Can't edit so add Stokes to that list, he get stuck with the tail due to England imploding.

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:28 am

Rammy Claret 61
We may last that long if Australian bat well into the second session
They have enough runs on the board now

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:33 am

45-1 at close, the lead is a mere 282, and another difficult day for England as early promise quickly dissipated.

Australia to bat until tea tomorrow, and England to be all out by lunch on day 5.

Changes surely have to be made as this bunch simply aren't up to the task, the worry is are the reserves any better.