Australia v England - 2nd Ashes Test

[Buxtonclaret]

Covid rules.
Oz very tight on overseas incomers right now.

Mate of mine wanted to go out, see his brother, do a couple of Tests at the same time.
He couldn't go.

[Milltown1882]

Game done. Well battled from England but overall another performance that opens up a lot of questions.

[tiger76]

A well deserved win by Australia, and England MUST make radical changes for Melbourne.

[tiger76]

BTW if 2 years planning have gone into this tour, then what the heck were they planning because it's been a total shambles from ball 1.

Both openers can go for me, as can Buttler and Pope, Woakes has contributed with the bat, but he's offered nothing with the ball.

Who comes in I don't know, but something has to happen otherwise this will be a 5-0 thrashing.

[RammyClaret61]

Will probably still lose but my oh my are the Aussies wishing they’d forced the follow on right now.

That’s about 70 overs the Aussies didn’t expect to bowl.

[Colburn_Claret]

A well deserved win by Australia, and England MUST make radical changes for Melbourne.

A bit like fixing Man U, it will take a couple of years, and a rethink in management. There's nothing we can do for the next test, or this series, that is going to make any difference.

In the era of cricketing super stars, T20, IPL, BB, 100, it's going to take a lot of changes. Our cricketers appear to have an inability to switch codes, they are either good at one format, or the other.
I'd happily ban Englands test players from the short format game, but that's where the money is, and you can't stop them walking away. I'd like to see County matches revert to 5 days instead of 4. I can understand the reasoning behind the change, but it doesn't help the players in finding that test match form. Maybe ensuring that test players have appeared in x amount of County Championship games before they are eligible for test call ups as well. The Contract these test players get means they can sit on their backsides for a lot of the season.

[Milltown1882]

BTW if 2 years planning have gone into this tour, then what the heck were they planning because it's been a total shambles from ball 1.

Both openers can go for me, as can Buttler and Pope, Woakes has contributed with the bat, but he's offered nothing with the ball.

Who comes in I don't know, but something has to happen otherwise this will be a 5-0 thrashing.

Crawley would likely come in but he’s had no cricket. Can say that for a lot of fringe players. The warning signs were coming in the New Zealand and India series’.

Pope has surely had his last chance, fair enough averaging 60 on a road in the championship but not suited to tests. Woakes good in English conditions but not abroad (maybe need to take a horses for courses approach for where the bowlers are picked).

Too many poor players have had too many chances, players like Bairstow taking up a place on the plane where a Foakes etc should be. Chopping and changing of the bowlers is a constant issue.

Book ending first class games in spring and late in the season doesn’t help in the slightest.

[Herts Clarets]

We don't do the basics at all well:

Defend the good deliveries
Attack the bad ball
Don't play at balls you don't have to
Hold your catches
Bowl at the stumps (did i read only 6% of England deliveries would have gone on to hit the stumps?)

I know it sounds simple but it's what the Aussies have done and what England haven't with the expected outcome.

[tiger76]

A bit like fixing Man U, it will take a couple of years, and a rethink in management. There's nothing we can do for the next test, or this series, that is going to make any difference.

In the era of cricketing super stars, T20, IPL, BB, 100, it's going to take a lot of changes. Our cricketers appear to have an inability to switch codes, they are either good at one format, or the other.
I'd happily ban Englands test players from the short format game, but that's where the money is, and you can't stop them walking away. I'd like to see County matches revert to 5 days instead of 4. I can understand the reasoning behind the change, but it doesn't help the players in finding that test match form. Maybe ensuring that test players have appeared in x amount of County Championship games before they are eligible for test call ups as well. The Contract these test players get means they can sit on their backsides for a lot of the season.

I don't disagree it'll take a long term fix, and I'd certainly approve of CC matches moving to 5 days, perhaps with less fixtures to play overall, but a better quality of play.

Central contracts are something which I've had an issue with for years, and in my view they've created a comfort blanket in the main test squad, as many players know they are unlikely to be dropped despite below par performances, the whole system needs a complete shake-up from top to bottom, including at the ECB.

[Milltown1882]

Media saying Mahmood may be answered to the squad as he’s out there for the BBL. Wouldn’t be the worst idea.

[ChrisG]

Playing the County Championship in summer as opposed to April/October would be a start. As my friend said to me earlier, when Darren Stevens is getting 50 odd wickets at the age of 45, then something is very wrong.

Of course this would mean binning off the cash cow of the Hundred etc so will never happen.

[Quickenthetempo]

We don't do the basics at all well:

Defend the good deliveries
Attack the bad ball
Don't play at balls you don't have to
Hold your catches
Bowl at the stumps (did i read only 6% of England deliveries would have gone on to hit the stumps?)

I know it sounds simple but it's what the Aussies have done and what England haven't with the expected outcome.

It's a little harsh to have a go at the bowlers. It's hard touring down under with hardly any swing or seam movement. Most deliveries that would hit the stumps are half volleys and easily scored off if there's no movement.
Joe Root has a better bowling record than Swann in Australia, which indicates lots of runs are usually scored down under.
We simply need batsman that can score 100s.

You are right about all the basics though.

[Milltown1882]

Playing the County Championship in summer as opposed to April/October would be a start. As my friend said to me earlier, when Darren Stevens is getting 50 odd wickets at the age of 45, then something is very wrong.

Of course this would mean binning off the cash cow of the Hundred etc so will never happen.

Throw Tim Murtagh in there with Stevens too.

[tiger76]

It's a little harsh to have a go at the bowlers. It's hard touring down under with hardly any swing or seam movement. Most deliveries that would hit the stumps are half volleys and easily scored off if there's no movement.
Joe Root has a better bowling record than Swann in Australia, which indicates lots of runs are usually scored down under.
We simply need batsman that can score 100s.

You are right about all the basics though.

The bowling has It's faults, but it's the lack of runs that's a bigger problem, 4 innings and England have yet to even reach 300, you've got no hope of winning in Australia id you can't put big scores on the board, and in this test against a weaker Aussie attack England should have been about parity on 1st innings, this match was lost with that crazy collapse on day 3.

[CleggHall]

The problem is that no-one wants to watch 4 days County cricket let alone 5 days. The game simply does not pay, I frequently join 1,000 pensioners at the Riverside, Durham for such games. A nice, gentle day out watching Rushworth and other medium pacers take wickets at regular intervals and few batsmen go on to make 3 figure scores. Transfer this to Australia and you see what you get, a totally outclassed England side being massacred by a no-more than competent team of Aussies. Meanwhile the ECB plug new competition the Hundred and walk away with their financial bonuses. It’s the Economics stupid!

[TheFamilyCat]

A bit like fixing Man U, it will take a couple of years, and a rethink in management. There's nothing we can do for the next test, or this series, that is going to make any difference.

In the era of cricketing super stars, T20, IPL, BB, 100, it's going to take a lot of changes. Our cricketers appear to have an inability to switch codes, they are either good at one format, or the other.
I'd happily ban Englands test players from the short format game, but that's where the money is, and you can't stop them walking away. I'd like to see County matches revert to 5 days instead of 4. I can understand the reasoning behind the change, but it doesn't help the players in finding that test match form. Maybe ensuring that test players have appeared in x amount of County Championship games before they are eligible for test call ups as well. The Contract these test players get means they can sit on their backsides for a lot of the season.

I'd go for a three division county championship. Ten games per county, 40 days cricket around which all the one-day stuff can be played. Also a smaller pool of the best players will play each other so should produce a better standard. I'd also schedule rounds of CC games in the build up to test series so the test squad have more opportunity to play some first class cricket. The ECB should also insist that all the centrally contracted players play in at least one CC game in the build up to a series (fitness permitting).

[TheFamilyCat]

They were discussing Pope and Labuschagne on TMS. Pope averages 60 in first class cricket, Labuschagne averaged 30-odd when he was called up to the Australian squad.

Evidence that there is probably a huge gulf in class between the Sheffield Shield and County Championship.

[Milltown1882]

They were discussing Pope and Labuschagne on TMS. Pope averages 60 in first class cricket, Labuschagne averaged 30-odd when he was called up to the Australian squad.

Evidence that there is probably a huge gulf in class between the Sheffield Shield and County Championship.

Very good point. Labuschagne has also played over 100 first class games whereas Pope has played much lower. A lot more experience playing in different game situations etc. Not sure if it would have any impact but the English players are quite happy to go and play the money spinning white ball stuff but would it benefit some of them to play in the Shield etc and get that experience in different conditions and environments? Labuschagne’s experience for Glamorgan surely had some benefit in the Ashes over here for him.

[tiger76]

Very good point. Labuschagne has also played over 100 first class games whereas Pope has played much lower. A lot more experience playing in different game situations etc. Not sure if it would have any impact but the English players are quite happy to go and play the money spinning white ball stuff but would it benefit some of them to play in the Shield etc and get that experience in different conditions and environments? Labuschagne’s experience for Glamorgan surely had some benefit in the Ashes over here for him.

Labuschagne was a real find for Australia, but to the many who follow county cricket closely his success wasn't a surprise, and absolutely his experience of English conditions proved invaluable when he was called up in place of Smith.

I'm not aware of any England players that have played in the Sheffield Shield, but yes that would be a good schooling for them prior to a tough Ashes tour, unfortunately they'd rather chase the dosh in the IPL.

[bfccrazy]

Yellow one?

It was one of this seasons home shirts.

[RammyClaret61]

Labuschagne was a real find for Australia, but to the many who follow county cricket closely his success wasn't a surprise, and absolutely his experience of English conditions proved invaluable when he was called up in place of Smith.

I'm not aware of any England players that have played in the Sheffield Shield, but yes that would be a good schooling for them prior to a tough Ashes tour, unfortunately they'd rather chase the dosh in the IPL.

The difference with the shield is they only play about 8 games. Plus they don’t sign overseas players, they’d rather blood their own. Unlike England who would rather spend thousands giving overseas players experience in English conditions. Take the last ashes in England, I think every single Aussie played County cricket in the lead up. We don’t half shoot ourselves in the foot. All at the expense of our own “talent”.

I also think the T20 crap as diminished the skill of cricketers. Let’s be honest, you don’t need much skill to play it. Batsman smack the ball as hard as they can, every ball. Wickets are taken by the batsman missing in his enthusiasm. Or being caught.
The amount of T20 needs reducing, never going to happen I know. County championship also needs reducing, play each county once. The schedule needs an overall. I also agree re central contracts. Play for your county, do well, get picked, simple really. At the moment we’ve got that closed shop “club style” environment. The same squad of players just rotating. If you get dropped you’re still in the England set up. Because once you’re in, you are in at the moment, form doesn’t matter.

[SydneyClaret]

The problem is that no-one wants to watch 4 days County cricket let alone 5 days. The game simply does not pay, I frequently join 1,000 pensioners at the Riverside, Durham for such games. A nice, gentle day out watching Rushworth and other medium pacers take wickets at regular intervals and few batsmen go on to make 3 figure scores. Transfer this to Australia and you see what you get, a totally outclassed England side being massacred by a no-more than competent team of Aussies. Meanwhile the ECB plug new competition the Hundred and walk away with their financial bonuses. It’s the Economics stupid!

Nobody watches the long game here either. Except for tests. It’s all about the big bash league. I believe the Aussies just dig in, practice practice practice and never give up even when they’re down. England however had heads down on day 3 and 4, playing like the game was already lost.

[RammyClaret61]

Holy crap. I’d forgotten about the hundred. Another crash bang thank you mam, we'll just take more of your hard earned.