Dyche

[HyperClaret]

As I have said on the match thread, Dyche has made it clear every season that he has wanted more money to work with for transfers. He has managed to get far more out of the players in this team over the last 3 years than I would ever have hoped for - the form we are currently in has been a long time coming, but Dyche is the only reason it didn't come about sooner.

We cannot put out the oldest team we have ever put out in the Prem and expect results. There is no depth to our team, and that is something that has been completely out of Dyche's hands since the beginning, since we have barely made any transfers over the last 3-4 years.

The idea that another manager would be doing better with the minute resources he has been given is laughable.

[snapcrackleandpop]

And be slaughtered!

Why ?

[IanMcL]

Too much of a change.

[RVclaret]

Don't dodge it, let's see names so we can discuss them.

I've said this before, plenty want managers sacked but aren't willing to name who they want in

I would have had Wilder first choice but that’s probably sailed now.

Left of field choices would be Jesse Marcsh, young American who’s just left RB Leipzig, would help raise the profile in the US in line with ALK’s goals. Plays high pressing attacking football.

Or Kjetil Knutsen who is manager of Norwegian champions Bodo Glimt - he turned them from bottle of the table chancers to league domination and into Europe (including beating Roma 6-1 this year), all while playing possession based attacking football.

Other more local options include Rooney who’s done a cracking job at Derby or even Lampard. Both have done well with small budgets in the Champ and promoted youth. Failing that we could consider Michael Duff who’s done well at Cheltenham.

[Dy1geo]

Don't dodge it, let's see names so we can discuss them.

I've said this before, plenty want managers sacked but aren't willing to name who they want in

If Dyche goes a left field option could be Emma Hayes

She is highly respected as a coach and we would get a lot of interest and recognition in hiring her.

[expoultryboy]

I just don't understand why he sticks to 4-4-2 every game even when our midfield is being overrun . After the run we've been on , you'd think that Dyche and his backroom staff would be able to consider something different especially with the money they're on .

[brexit]

I always ask this question and never get a decent answer are there any "youth" players at Burnley who could play in first team even under a different manager?

[Awayfromburnley]

If Dyche goes a left field option could be Emma Hayes

She is highly respected as a coach and we would get a lot of interest and recognition in hiring her.

I actually like this idea. Would put us hugely in the limelight and be a positive stepfor women, football, the club and the town.

She is great.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I would have had Wilder first choice but that’s probably sailed now.

Left of field choices would be Jesse Marcsh, young American who’s just left RB Leipzig, would help raise the profile in the US in line with ALK’s goals. Plays high pressing attacking football.

Or Kjetil Knutsen who is manager of Norwegian champions Bodo Glimt - he turned them from bottle of the table chancers to league domination and into Europe (including beating Roma 6-1 this year), all while playing possession based attacking football.

Other more local options include Rooney who’s done a cracking job at Derby or even Lampard. Both have done well with small budgets in the Champ and promoted youth. Failing that we could consider Michael Duff who’s done well at Cheltenham.

I'm not really sure on Wilder, that was some collapse last season, be interesting to see how he does at Boro.

That lad from Leipzig has been mentioned recently, wasn't there an issue with the players and that's why he left?

I don't know anything about Knutsen.

Rooney - would raise the profile of the club, however I don't like the media appearances due to his absolute inability to keep a low profile.

Lampard - weirdly did better in a season with no money than he did with lots, having thought about it recently he may be a reasonable option, but I'm umming and arring on him, but like Rooney he'd raise the club's profile.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If Dyche goes a left field option could be Emma Hayes

She is highly respected as a coach and we would get a lot of interest and recognition in hiring her.

I think we're a high enough profile job for her to not consider it insulting like she probably did about the last job she was linked with, MK Dons wasn't it?
History of winning etc.
The only concern is what are her contacts like in regards to getting other managers to sell/loan their players to us, because that does effect the outcome sometimes of enquiries, although Chelsea would probably loan her players wherever she ends up.

[agreenwood]

Nobody decent is coming in now. Bottom 3, ageing squad, no time to make any transfer plans and a better than even chance of having a relegation on your CV.

We’d end up with a caretaker for the rest of the season or risk giving the job to a clown and handing him the keys to the vital summer rebuild.

The best candidates will be available in the summer.

[Safron]

I have this bad feeling in my stomach the same when laws was handed the job of keeping us in the premier, you just new it was over

[jedi_master]

Nobody decent is coming in now. Bottom 3, ageing squad, no time to make any transfer plans and a better than even chance of having a relegation on your CV.

We’d end up with a caretaker for the rest of the season or risk giving the job to a clown and handing him the keys to the vital summer rebuild.

The best candidates will be available in the summer.

Spot on.

This would be Laws Mk.2 - Hopefully though if that did occur, the board wouldn’t be as negligent as in 2010 and would only give the guy a 6 month deal.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Nobody decent is coming in now. Bottom 3, ageing squad, no time to make any transfer plans and a better than even chance of having a relegation on your CV.

We’d end up with a caretaker for the rest of the season or risk giving the job to a clown and handing him the keys to the vital summer rebuild.

The best candidates will be available in the summer.

Any manager looking for work will be evaluating various clubs in the hope a job becomes vacant.

[SkiptonClaret]

I always ask this question and never get a decent answer are there any "youth" players at Burnley who could play in first team even under a different manager?

Couple of exceptions but Dyche has an obvious mistrust of youth. It’s why we’ve landed with one of the oldest teams / squads that’s likely “graced” the PL. Would it be different with another manager ? Possibly. They’ll have the advantage of working in the Championship which should make it a little easier. Whatever, the next manager needs to be someone who’ll promote youth not largely ignore it.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Couple of exceptions but Dyche has an obvious mistrust of youth. It’s why we’ve landed with one of the oldest teams / squads that’s likely “graced” the PL. Would it be different with another manager ? Possibly. They’ll have the advantage of working in the Championship which should make it a little easier. Whatever, the next manager needs to be someone who’ll promote youth not largely ignore it.

Dyche will never give the youth a chance.

[Top Claret]

Lots of talk about Villa coming in for McNeil and Newcastle Tarkowski I would consider them. Newcastle will throw the kitchen sink at the job in January and we aren't good enough to catch the likes of Leeds and Everton. Might not be a bad idea for the long term future of the club to consolidate and preper for next season in the championship.

I am not one for throwing the towel in but this lot are just not good enough at this level and we don't have the resources to compete with Newcastle

[Hipper]

Forgive me but are we still playing the Dyche way, the framework and all that?

It seems to me we are having for more possession then we used to have but do not seem to have the ability to do much with it. This has lead to a more open defence which is being exploited.

Is this is true, is it perhaps to do with some directive from the new management or Dyche's choice?

[RVclaret]

Forgive me but are we still playing the Dyche way, the framework and all that?

It seems to me we are having for more possession then we used to have but do not seem to have the ability to do much with it. This has lead to a more open defence which is being exploited.

Is this is true, is it perhaps to do with some directive from the new management or Dyche's choice?

Nah, we still have by far the lowest pass completion rate and possession stats in the league. Playing style is the exact same we are just a lot worse at it.

[Burnley1989]

This thread is embarrassing, I’ve never read so much sh*te in my life….do you honestly think Dyche would play this way with a better set of players when he’s never been given the chance to…Do you think this squad can actually play/have the ability to play like Brighton etc do? Your living in cloud cuckoo land…this squad has run its course, not Dyche’s fault the board won’t invest and strengthen, the difference this season is players have run contracts down and are off, this will affect the mentality of the squad. Today was shocking and a poor choice of tactics from Dyche but to blame him for 2021 results you need to look at the bigger picture. No other manager would achieve what Dyche has with this squad, it’s bang average at best. Maybe going down and having a clear out wouldn’t be a bad thing, I don’t want to go down but it’s either that or the chairman invests to move forward from this garbage.

I agree it’s a difficult read, some good points but most are just comments of folk that are hurting, disappointing really but everyone is entitled to voice their opinion

[BabylonClaret]

Nah, we still have by far the lowest pass completion rate and possession stats in the league. Playing style is the exact same we are just a lot worse at it.

Hmm. I've also wondered about us being more "open in style" under the new owners. I think whe we go behind and start to struggle the low confidence means we drop back into a more direct pattern.

[Burnley1989]

If Dyche goes a left field option could be Emma Hayes

She is highly respected as a coach and we would get a lot of interest and recognition in hiring her.

Maybe a young side but someone who’s never managed a professional men’s team isn’t going to work with seasoned pros in my opinion

[boatshed bill]

Dyche will never give the youth a chance.

I do believe this is an issue.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Forgive me but are we still playing the Dyche way, the framework and all that?

It seems to me we are having for more possession then we used to have but do not seem to have the ability to do much with it. This has lead to a more open defence which is being exploited.

Is this is true, is it perhaps to do with some directive from the new management or Dyche's choice?

Our possession stats are the worst now. I would be amazed if any of our players have completed more than 50 passes in one game this season

[Aclaret]

The best part of a 4 year deal to run, he won't be quitting and can't see the board being willing to pay him off. I reckon we have him for the foreseeable.....but in football stranger things happen.
For my penny's worth, give him until end of the window and see what he can do with some cash, he didn't do bad with Cornet.....that's if we have any cash of course.

[Dyched]

Forgive me but are we still playing the Dyche way, the framework and all that?

It seems to me we are having for more possession then we used to have but do not seem to have the ability to do much with it. This has lead to a more open defence which is being exploited.

Is this is true, is it perhaps to do with some directive from the new management or Dyche's choice?

I think it’s simple tactic that opponents have. Let us have the ball, they won’t hurt us. Wait for the bad pass and pounce. I remember one of the 4-0 at West Brom with Pulis in charge. That night was a prime example of it.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Time to go - If we want to try and stay in the PL. Our record this season and at the end of last is indefensible. The football is sh*te too.

Times time for me

[Elizabeth]

It is not time for Dyche to go.

It’s time for him to make big decisions !

[Swizzlestick]

He’s under big pressure now, and not just from the fans. We’re not owned by local lads who’ll be happy to stay with the status quo now - the board will be wondering what on earth is going on, new contract or not. Any other manager would have been fired with the record we have shown since the beginning of 2021 (disclaimer - I personally don’t think he should be, just looking as an outsider).

[Kazoo]

These owners can't afford to sack Dyche. Skint as feck, yet people will still believe this "honest" and "nice guy" garbage, and all this "gradual" bullsh*t which is code speak for buying time whilst sh"*t hits the fan. Pace is full of sh*t and it's laughable how many comfort themselves by believing he has any other intention other than rinsing his "bargain".

TLDR: I think we're f*cked, and I think Dyche (the least to blame) knows it.

[Vegas Claret]

These owners can't afford to sack Dyche. Skint as feck, yet people will still believe this "honest" and "nice guy" garbage, and all this "gradual" bullsh*t which is code speak for buying time whilst sh"*t hits the fan. Pace is full of sh*t and it's laughable how many comfort themselves by believing he has any other intention other than rinsing his "bargain".

TLDR: I think we're f*cked, and I think Dyche (the least to blame) knows it.

please give us an insight to how much money the people who back Pace have. You could have a real inside "in the know" scoop here because to come up with the conclusions you have would indicate you've seen the bank balance, the loan contract and future plans. So come one, enlighten us all

[Swizzlestick]

These owners can't afford to sack Dyche. Skint as feck, yet people will still believe this "honest" and "nice guy" garbage, and all this "gradual" bullsh*t which is code speak for buying time whilst sh"*t hits the fan. Pace is full of sh*t and it's laughable how many comfort themselves by believing he has any other intention other than rinsing his "bargain".

TLDR: I think we're f*cked, and I think Dyche (the least to blame) knows it.

What nonsense. And how is Dyche ‘the least to blame’? The owners backed him with the Cornet, Roberts and Collins signings, and we kept our big players. The results and performances are down to Dyche and the players.

[mybloodisclaret]

What nonsense. And how is Dyche ‘the least to blame’? The owners backed him with the Cornet, Roberts and Collins signings, and we kept our big players. The results and performances are down to Dyche and the players.

Roberts and Collins will feature. Both are quality additions to our squad as is Max. We have spent nothing for 3 years, that is why ALK are now having to play catch up with the team. Perhaps had more been used on transfers in those 3 years we would not be where we are now, and that to my knowledge isn't down to Pace or Dyche.

[hoskinsgoalatswansea]

If Dyche goes a left field option could be Emma Hayes

She is highly respected as a coach and we would get a lot of interest and recognition in hiring her.

This is an interesting one. The more I think about it the more I like it. Great coach who talks a lot of sense and is very well respected.

At the euros before the Denmark game she pretty much nailed it how the game would play out, whilst at the same time making Ashley Cole’s presence next to her look pointless.

Alan Pace seems positive about women in the game too. Why the hell not?

[Vegas Claret]

Hmm. I've also wondered about us being more "open in style" under the new owners. I think whe we go behind and start to struggle the low confidence means we drop back into a more direct pattern.

does Dyche seem like the kind of guy that is going to take tactical advice from an owner ? I'm 100% sure he isn't !!

[EarbyClaret]

Things look pretty grim but if you compare us to clubs in similar situations the best examples are probably Stoke and West Brom when they were relegated having looked like they had just about established themselves at this level

Changing managers at this time of the season saw them bring in Lambert and Pardew. I fear we would end up with a someone of a similar profile. That would inevitably mean another change probably in the summer which would be expensive and make the current situation even worse

If we are relegated then would be a much better time to make a decision. If we are going to run down the contracts of senior pros and there is a managerial change then it should be easier to attract someone progressive/ambitious at that time

[eastanglianclaret]

I just don't understand why he sticks to 4-4-2 every game even when our midfield is being overrun . After the run we've been on , you'd think that Dyche and his backroom staff would be able to consider something different especially with the money they're on .

We don't play 4-4-2, we play 9-0-1.

[Darnhill Claret]

Anyone on here ever thought of ‘supporting’ the team, the players, the manager and the chairman. A novel idea I know.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

I would have had Wilder first choice but that’s probably sailed now.

Left of field choices would be Jesse Marcsh, young American who’s just left RB Leipzig, would help raise the profile in the US in line with ALK’s goals. Plays high pressing attacking football.

Or Kjetil Knutsen who is manager of Norwegian champions Bodo Glimt - he turned them from bottle of the table chancers to league domination and into Europe (including beating Roma 6-1 this year), all while playing possession based attacking football.

Other more local options include Rooney who’s done a cracking job at Derby or even Lampard. Both have done well with small budgets in the Champ and promoted youth. Failing that we could consider Michael Duff who’s done well at Cheltenham.

Marsch got potted at Leipzig because no one respected him. It’s hard moving from soft assistant positions into a head coach role. You lack the tenacity.

[Spijed]

I think it’s simple tactic that opponents have. Let us have the ball, they won’t hurt us. Wait for the bad pass and pounce. I remember one of the 4-0 at West Brom with Pulis in charge. That night was a prime example of it.

After we lost 4-0 to WBA that night we then went on to finish 7th the following season so obviously we had plenty of skill to hurt the opposition, otherwise we'd have been relegated soon after.

At least use an example that's relevant.

[steve1264b]

i dont believe its time for Dyche to leave.

However, we do need to make some difficult decisions. All of these revolve around whether we go into championship mode and start planning for that or go all in borrow money in an attempt to stay up.

The starting point for that decision is the manager. He has to asked if he is up for the championship next year, if he is he has to be given first crack, his record in the championship demands it. If he doesn't fancy it we need to move on.

The worst thing that could happen is if we stick with him now and at the end of the season he walks away giving it the old its the right thing for me to do for the club to rebuild etc.

[Hibsclaret]

I have one thing to say about our Sean.

My Mrs has noted that his favourite words are Premier League because he uses the words an incredible amount of times during the pre match press conferences. I believe he is destined to keep us in the league so he can continue to use his favourite words at every opportunity.

[RVclaret]

Marsch got potted at Leipzig because no one respected him. It’s hard moving from soft assistant positions into a head coach role. You lack the tenacity.

Interesting but he won two doubles in a row at RB Salzburg in the previous two seasons so I’m sure he was respected then. Perhaps Leipzig was a step too soon, not sure. Like I said would be a left field choice but would definitely get more interest in Burnley from the US which I’m almost certain is what ALK are trying to achieve.

[bfcjg]

I think and hope Dyche will be as shocked and embarrassed as we are are after such a dire run. I think he should stay but now is the time for fresh ideas,bold team selection and let's get some high quality loan players in to see us have half a chance this season,loan players who can start straight away not the likes of Drinkwater and Crouch etc. If at the end if the window despite money on offer nothing has changed then it is time to go.

[agreenwood]

I think and hope Dyche will be as shocked and embarrassed as we are are after such a dire run. I think he should stay but now is the time for fresh ideas,bold team selection and let's get some high quality loan players in to see us have half a chance this season,loan players who can start straight away not the likes of Drinkwater and Crouch etc. If at the end if the window despite money on offer nothing has changed then it is time to go.

This struck me yesterday. We need the kind of change he’s brought about a few times around this time of year. I remember a Christmas defeat to Hull ending Duff’s time as a starter. Likewise Hart being potted a couple of years back.

[randomclaret2]

Anyone on here ever thought of ‘supporting’ the team, the players, the manager and the chairman. A novel idea I know.

I think we've gone a bit beyond the old " its the fan's fault " routine by now...

[NottsClaret]

The supporters know it's not Dyche, he's not under any pressure from them. I mean the fans that go to games, not the weird ones from the internet.

It's going to be a strange relegation in that sense. It's not the manager's fault (he wanted reinforcements for 2 years), it's not the player's fault (can't blame them for getting old), and much as I have my doubts, it's not Pace's fault (actually backed some decent signings, even if he borrowed the money).

Overall, as with those of us leaving Elland Road yesterday, it's all a bit sad rather than something you can get angry about. The Championship is good fun though and there's nobody better than Dyche to have in charge there.

[claretspice]

Firstly - Dyche might be the greatest manager in the club's history, and is certainly in the top handful. Some of the criticism of him and the style of play - and indeed of his ability to motivate this group of players (the suggestion players aren't trying) are way, way, way over the top.

However, I don't think Dyche can be immune from criticism for the position we find ourselves in. The ultimate problem we've ended up with is three fold: (i) a team that doesn't retain possession of the ball well as well as basically any team in the division, (ii)the squad players have got a little too old and stale to provide the "edge" that Dyche referred to yesterday, and (iii) too many players are out of contract in the summer and so have an unhelpful distraction, quite apart from the fact that their value has diminished and so the net cost of replacing has increased.

Without being on the inside this is all slightly speculative, but it seems likely that Dyche should take some blame for all of those factors. He may have been constrained by Garlick's parsimony (and his contribution to our decline needs serious scrutiny; it certainly feels as though a profitable sale was promoted above the best interests of the club more generally), but most sources have suggested that Dyche has blocked the sale of Tarkowski, for example, in each of the last 2 summers, which if true did nothing more than delay the inevitable whilst denying us the chance to reinvest that money in the squad. It also feels as though whilst the cohort of players who took us into Europe deserved lots of loyalty, Dyche may perhaps have been a bit too faithful to what the likes of Barnes, Cork, JBG and Westwood are able to deliver.

Whether Dyche is rightly to blame or not, the fact is that this decline in the squad resulted in us going into this season with a squad which was at best threadbare - we took a step forwards in the summer when we needed a leap. But I've been surprised by how little emphasis we've put on keeping the ball this season, and the way in which our best player, McNeil has been utilised, and I think Dyche takes some responsibility for that. In the first game of the season, bringing Ashley Barnes on and going more direct was the response to Brighton getting even a toe-hold in the game; it backfired and Brighton won the game, but it was indicative of a tactical direction which has become if anything more direct, angular and rigid in recent seasons. No team can prosper when its two central holding midfielders routinely have pass completion rates below 70%, as ours do. Most teams want their best technical player in the central areas where they can influence the game; we've persistently stuck ours out on the wing. I'm not how much we'd have done if we'd done the brave thing and moved McNeil centrally, but I do think it would have improved us (and potentially his morale, he looks a bit fed up of feeding on scraps and I can't blame him). Ultimately, we clearly needed to prioritise a central midfielder in the summer and we didn't.

Dyche has taken us through nadirs before - Everton 3 years ago, Hull away in the Championship winning season, etc. - and used them as a reset that has seen us rebound. It's pretty obvious that one is needed now. If we're to survive, two things are needed: (i) Dyche will need some backing to bring in a player or two to improve us, and (ii) we need to re-prioritise using the ball properly, and constructively, even if that entails being a bit more flexible about our shape.

[RVclaret]

Great post spice and agree with pretty much everything there.

The more direct tactics you discussed are something that has come from Dyche, simple. It’s been obvious for a while that McNeil should be given a go in the 10, both supporting the midfield defensively against the 3’s they often face, as well as providing a different (closer) passing option. This would see an immediate improvement to ball retention. Thats without mentioning getting our most technical player influencing the game more frequently.

What makes it even odder is that formation, with Hendrick in that role, was so successful in the season we finished 7th. Not only did we keep the ball better but defensively we were more sound too. It would require Cornet getting up to speed on the left with the transition and I’d like to see a new right winger brought in, as both Lennon and JBG aren’t creative enough anymore. I actually think Cornet is much more suited to that role anyway rather than with his back to goal up top. Issue here in the immediacy is that he’s off until January now.

Add to that a new central midfielder that is comfortable on the ball and capable of playing those line breaking passes that Defour used to do.

[AfloatinClaret]

... it's all a bit sad rather than something you can get angry about. The Championship is good fun though and there's nobody better than Dyche to have in charge there.

My thoughts exactly; the one ethnic-minority in the woodpile being the ALK takeover; under the Garlick regime/business plan we (perhaps more than anyone in the EPL) could 'afford' to drop to the Championship, but can we do so now?
I do wonder if the Leeds game might prove especially significant? Had we won and got out of the bottom three/stayed in touch with the group above, then ALK would spend money in January to keep us in the EPL; having lost they instead look to maximise the return on the likes of JT/Pope/Taylor/McNeil - even if that means selling them this month - as a financial cushion to an accepted relegation. We appear to have signed several young/promising players who're deemed 'not yet ready' for the Premiership, but they along with Max Cornet and a few experienced pros might form the core of a very decent, even promotion threatening side in the Championship. On an earlier post I stated that I'd be happy to see Lennon/Bardsley/Stephens heading for the exit door, but they along with Jay-Rod and Cork could perhaps wind down their careers by mentoring Burnley's new crop of players?