Do The Owners Know What They Have Taken On

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:07 pm

I know Alan Pace is motivated by this "great British under dog perception" of our club, but do they really know what they were taking on, now that relegation is week by week starting to become more of a reality.

Having followed this message board closely since 3.55pm on Sunday when the Leeds game finished, I have noticed even the most positive of our followers realising relegation is becoming a formality. We simply need to discover TOP 6 form now to get the accepted 40 points for survival. Is anyone seriously thinking that a club who has won one in twenty is going on such a run.

The business model for us in the PL is vastly different to that of being in the Championship, plus we will have 10 OOC players. Have the new owners a Plan B for relegation. That's some group of players to find. When asked in his interview how relegation would affect the club, there was definite hesitation in Alan Pace when he answered.

I will be watching our transfer activity with great interest, but just as significantly will they be making SD more accountable in key areas-ie playing the guys who the new owners recently bought. Does Collins deserve to be on the bench after so many goals have ben given away, particularly as both players keeping him out refuse to commit to the club. After all he has been outstanding against some formidable opposition. Should Cornet have started on Sunday. Why has Roberts when fit enough to play for Wales not been considered in a club with the worst form of all 92 League Clubs. Is the formation really that rigid. Why are we the only club in the PL that has NEVER played 3 at the back, when we have the ideal three to undertake that. Why do we persist with Cork and JBG when they have not been involved in an assist since I can remember. The questions are endless and they are all controlled by one man, and it appears he is accountable to no one

Some very big decisions to be taken in the next few weeks by the directors and they all involve the manager that they claim they love. The next four weeks are going to be interesting

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:42 pm

I hate the 'underdog' tag that Pace keeps going on about. I want us to be us, and a club for our fans, not someone else's favourite underdog. Do they know what they've taken on? Of course they do, it's whether they can find the money to pay for it I suppose.

Roberts fit enough to play for Wales? If you recall, we weren't happy with how they used him when he was on his way back from surgery. Which players haven't committed to the club? As far as I am aware we are not playing anyone who isn't under contract.

Cornet isn't fully fit. It might have back fired bit he wasn't considered fit enough to play more than half a game and it was obviously considered better to bring him on than take him off at half time.

We have played three at the back previously, finally, and mercifully, abandoned with the Boxing Day shambles three years ago against Everton.

Persisting with Cork - he's started less than half our games this season.

Worst form of 92 clubs? Crap, yes, worst in the Premier League, let's not get silly with some silly graphic that shows a League Two club with more points from a lot more games.

And do you seriously believe the manager is accountable to no one? If so, it suggests you have precious little time or respect for Pace.

Johma · Post by **Johma** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:45 pm

Spend some cash this next fortnight and back us

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:55 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:42 pm
Worst form of 92 clubs? Crap, yes, worst in the Premier League, let's not get silly with some silly graphic that shows a League Two club with more points from a lot more games.

It’s not a silly graphic, it illustrates perfectly how truly shocking our overall form has been, we’ve secured less points per game than any team in the entire football league in the last calendar year!

Wokingclaret · Post by **Wokingclaret** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:08 pm

I will be watching our transfer activity with great interest, yes do come back on the last day of the window...stand-down

buzzclarets79 · Post by **buzzclarets79** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:13 pm

While I don't ever want to see the Clarets drop a division, the fact, purely from a financial point of view, if you are going to drop out of the Prem the summer when you have 10 OOC players would be the time to do it, we'll potentially free up a fortune in wages.
The flip side is it leaves a massive hole in the playing squad.

We should be able to make 40-50 million from player sales, Pope, Cornet, McNeil so financially I do think the club will be sound, given the parachute payments as well.

Its how we then replace all the above players, I suspect it'll be free transfers, small fees, and possibly blooding our U23s the likes of Bobby Thomas.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:22 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:55 pm
It’s not a silly graphic, it illustrates perfectly how truly shocking our overall form has been, we’ve secured less points per game than any team in the entire football league in the last calendar year!

The minute it starts comparing us with the likes of Oldham & Scunthorpe then it’s a silly graphic. I’m fully aware that we are the worst Premier League club over the past year.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:23 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:22 pm
The minute it starts comparing us with the likes of Oldham & Scunthorpe then it’s a silly graphic. I’m fully aware that we are the worst Premier League club over the past year.

I disagree, I think it adds context to just how bad we have been.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:26 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:23 pm
I disagree, I think it adds context to just how bad we have been.

If you think we have been worse than bottom League Two clubs then that’s your choice. I can see that we’ve been the worst Premier League team for the last year but I won’t compare us with teams in lesser leagues.

We had 22 points at the half way stage last season - 28 points from the 36 games since is clearly not good enough for a team wanting to stay in this division.

clarethomer · Post by **clarethomer** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:28 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:55 pm
It’s not a silly graphic, it illustrates perfectly how truly shocking our overall form has been, we’ve secured less points per game than any team in the entire football league in the last calendar year!

I saw the graphic but didnt really study it - if it was points per game - then it shouldn't matter if one club has played 50 games and the other 30 as the points accumulation will have been averaged over the number of games.

That said - the reality is that statistically we weren't the worst team in the league last season so taking stats over a period of time is interesting for journalists and headlines but isn't really a stat that really means anything meaningful to this season. If we finish in the relegation zone at the end of this season, the stats may indicate how we ended up there but in theory we have still earned the right to say that we are still the 18th-20th best club in the country.

Boss Hogg · Post by **Boss Hogg** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:30 pm

I’m not convinced they know how difficult it is to get out of The Championship. There are some big clubs down there. Championship football is fine but I’m not clear how the finances stack up if we don’t get back up in the first few years. We look to be in a much worse position than last time around with the debt we have. This is after considering the sellable assets( of which we have a few). I don’t think we or they should accept giving up PL status lightly.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:36 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:26 pm
If you think we have been worse than bottom League Two clubs then that’s your choice. I can see that we’ve been the worst Premier League team for the last year but I won’t compare us with teams in lesser leagues.

We had 22 points at the half way stage last season - 28 points from the 36 games since is clearly not good enough for a team wanting to stay in this division.

But statistically we have been. Our form has been the worst of any team in the whole of league football.

It’s not saying we are a worse side than those teams, that would clearly be ridiculous but it’s showing that across all levels of professional football in England, over a full 12 month period our form has been the worst.

That’s alarming.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:42 pm

They know exactly what they have taken on . I suspect they will not invest $1 of their own cash. I believe the term in America is leveraging. I can’t help but think Ted Lasso.

Shaggy · Post by **Shaggy** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:00 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:26 pm
If you think we have been worse than bottom League Two clubs then that’s your choice. I can see that we’ve been the worst Premier League team for the last year but I won’t compare us with teams in lesser leagues.

We had 22 points at the half way stage last season - 28 points from the 36 games since is clearly not good enough for a team wanting to stay in this division.

The facts state that we have been worse though. They have picked up more points per game than us over that period in their relative division are you disputing the figures? Or just dismissing them because you are a super fan?

The signs are alarming and drastic action is required or we will be going down without a fight this season.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:33 am

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:07 pm
Having followed this message board closely since 3.55pm on Sunday when the Leeds game finished, I have noticed even the most positive of our followers realising relegation is becoming a formality. We simply need to discover TOP 6 form now to get the accepted 40 points for survival. Is anyone seriously thinking that a club who has won one in twenty is going on such a run.

40 points may be the accepted number for guaranteed survival, but that doesn't mean that a club with 39 will necessarily go down. We didn't last year. It's 6 years since anyone finished 3rd bottom with more than 34 points. So 35 gives us a good chance.

And are you sure that we would need top 6 form? Another 29 points from 21 games would equate to 52 points over the season. Spurs are 6th now, with 33 points in 18 games. Last year it took 65 points to get 6th place.

If (a big if) we get 24 more points from 21 games, then we get 35 points total. That is, from now, a rate equivalent to 43 per season. Top 15 form. Still a challenge, but not the impossible task you make it out to be.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:33 am

FCBurnley wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:42 pm
They know exactly what they have taken on . I suspect they will not invest $1 of their own cash. I believe the term in America is leveraging. I can’t help but think Ted Lasso.

I certainly wouldn't be spending my share sale money just yet!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:33 am

the points per game show just that. It shows we have the lowest out of the 92. Anyone who believes it's an indication that we are the worst team in England needs a kipper slap across the chops !

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:36 am

I think confusion reigns with worst team or form throughout the calendar year of 2021.

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:49 am

To the original question. No they don’t. They bought us after a drunken party, then went on’t tinterweb. We are what was delivered just after last Christmas!!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:15 am

RammyClaret61 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:49 am
To the original question. No they don’t. They bought us after a drunken party, then went on’t tinterweb. We are what was delivered just after last Christmas!!

Boxing day sales

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:13 am

buzzclarets79 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:13 pm
While I don't ever want to see the Clarets drop a division, the fact, purely from a financial point of view, if you are going to drop out of the Prem the summer when you have 10 OOC players would be the time to do it, we'll potentially free up a fortune in wages.
The flip side is it leaves a massive hole in the playing squad.

We should be able to make 40-50 million from player sales, Pope, Cornet, McNeil so financially I do think the club will be sound, given the parachute payments as well.

Its how we then replace all the above players, I suspect it'll be free transfers, small fees, and possibly blooding our U23s the likes of Bobby Thomas.

40 to 50 million in player sales? I'd be surprised if we didn't make 25 for Cornet. McNeil can't be far off that either. Pope and Wood aren't getting any younger but they'd surely command as much as Heaton did when he left for 8m. I'd expect as much again for Taylor and even Brownhill who had his suitors apparently. Not forgetting BPF and Collins.

That's closer to 100m surely. 100m from player sales, 42 million from cash in the bank at the time of the purchase, which translates to full ownership of a championship club with parachute payments for 38m. Surely the parachute payment alone would give them their money back if they chose to milk the club dry.

I don't think ALK have anything to worry about. They are in a win-win situation. Obviously they'd prefer to stay in the Premier League but their investment is as safe after relegation as our finances would have been if it had happened under Garlick. The only thing that's changes is our chances of coming straight back up are massively reduced.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:17 am

dibraidio wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:13 am
40 to 50 million in player sales? I'd be surprised if we didn't make 25 for Cornet. McNeil can't be far off that either. Pope and Wood aren't getting any younger but they'd surely command as much as Heaton did when he left for 8m. I'd expect as much again for Taylor and even Brownhill who had his suitors apparently. Not forgetting BPF and Collins.

That's closer to 100m surely. 100m from player sales, 42 million from cash in the bank at the time of the purchase, which translates to full ownership of a championship club with parachute payments for 38m. Surely the parachute payment alone would give them their money back if they chose to milk the club dry.

I don't think ALK have anything to worry about. They are in a win-win situation. Obviously they'd prefer to stay in the Premier League but their investment is as safe after relegation as our finances would have been if it had happened under Garlick. The only thing that's changes is our chances of coming straight back up are massively reduced.

I’m sorry but no one is paying that kind of money for our players.

Dyche is either working miracles trying to keep us up or he has a starting eleven worth 100m? Which one is it

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:21 am

Anyone comparing premier league football to league 2 wants to give their head a wobble. It’s like comparing Test Match cricket with Lancashire league stuff. There is really no need to be alarmed. I’d be alarmed if we were the best team in league 2 not the perceived worst in the prem. Also it is not strictly true because Norwich are clearly worse than us along with Newcastle for this season with Watford being just marginally better. Another set of conjecture comparing apples with pears.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:30 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:17 am
I’m sorry but no one is paying that kind of money for our players.

Dyche is either working miracles trying to keep us up or he has a starting eleven worth 100m? Which one is it

My guesstimate of our teams value ( not what they were nought for )

Pope 20m
Lowton 2m
Tarky 25m ( Shame he is OOC )
Mee 4m
Taylor 10m
JBG 2.5m
Brownhill 10m
Westwood 3m
McNeil 25m
Wood 10m
Cornet 30m

We already have Tarkys replacement, Roberts will prove to be an upgrade on Liwton once he's bedded in, and his long throw will also add a different weapon to our armoury regardless of which league we are in.

So the rest of the saleable assets should easily be replaceable for the league below with the fee we would receive.
Add that we will save an extreamely lot of money in wages from either those sold or OOC/released players.
We will be able to offer top end championship wages, and regardless what people think we will be an attractive proposition most of the players currently plying their trade outside the top flight.

A sprinkle of young talent and some OOC players brought in to pad the squad out and just like the last few relegated sides, should be challenging at the top end.

The gap from premier league to championship is ever widening, even more so with Covid and subsequent cut backs.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:45 am

My real concern is just what will happen if/when we are relegated, they are investors and want a return, we could end up like Derby etc. They are shrewd and will have factored in all options including a worst case scenario they won't prop up an ailing club like a benefactor they'll take what they can and ride off, we will be left to clear up the mess.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:09 am

Appreciate we had a good window last time but where has our ability to recruit stellar signings gone, without necessarily spending a fortune or anything at all.. It happened at the start of SD's era including some great FREES who made a significant contribution ie Heaton, Arfield, Jones, Ward,Barton. And if we are skint why have we not fully used the loan market when clubs in lower leagues have secured and regularly played some great young players-Gallagher, Mount, Harvey Elliott, Tomori, James just to mention a few
These great young prospects exist in the depths of Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City. If Lennon can still start, and if JBG can get 16 starts this season are we saying players like Palmer at Man City would not feature. And all we hear is that SD is not a fan of the loan market. As I indicated in my OP the thinking and attitude of our manager needs to change, and its down to AP to make this happen

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:17 am

Yes they do.

A mid table men's championship side and a top 4 women's premiership side.

It was always the plan

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:18 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:17 am
I’m sorry but no one is paying that kind of money for our players.

Dyche is either working miracles trying to keep us up or he has a starting eleven worth 100m? Which one is it

Even if the valuations were right the sharks would be circling sensing blood by then knowing how desperate we would be & they wouldn’t be far wrong.

Wokingclaret · Post by **Wokingclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:19 am

May be they will have to give it back to Garlick

if they default

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:23 am

Wokingclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:19 am
May be they will have to give it back to Garlick if they default

And that's what is really worrying Garlick and JB

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:26 am

dibraidio wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:13 am
40 to 50 million in player sales? I'd be surprised if we didn't make 25 for Cornet. McNeil can't be far off that either. Pope and Wood aren't getting any younger but they'd surely command as much as Heaton did when he left for 8m. I'd expect as much again for Taylor and even Brownhill who had his suitors apparently. Not forgetting BPF and Collins.

That's closer to 100m surely. 100m from player sales, 42 million from cash in the bank at the time of the purchase, which translates to full ownership of a championship club with parachute payments for 38m. Surely the parachute payment alone would give them their money back if they chose to milk the club dry.

I don't think ALK have anything to worry about. They are in a win-win situation. Obviously they'd prefer to stay in the Premier League but their investment is as safe after relegation as our finances would have been if it had happened under Garlick. The only thing that's changes is our chances of coming straight back up are massively reduced.

You are right. ALK have nothing to worry about. £100m in player sales and £42m in Bank gives ALK a fair slug of their cash back. Dont expect them to invest much of that in new players

And they will still own a Championship club which will have value

Targetman · Post by **Targetman** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:27 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:55 pm
It’s not a silly graphic, it illustrates perfectly how truly shocking our overall form has been, we’ve secured less points per game than any team in the entire football league in the last calendar year!

I watched the Doncaster v Sunderland game on Sky last week. At half time they were showing various stats showing how poor Doncaster had been this season, each set of stats was to suit their agenda.

The presenter did say however that although Doncaster's scoring record was poor it wasn't the worst of the 92 league clubs. They then put up a graphic of 5 clubs showing that 2 Premier League clubs had scored less than Doncaster, Burnley and Wolves.
What they omitted to mention was that Doncaster had played 4 games more than Wolves and 6 games more than Burnley.

Stats can be manipulated to suit any agenda, but compare like for like, not Premier League clubs v League 2 clubs.
If Burnley were in League 2 then that table would be entirely different, but we are playing against much tougher opposition.

Yes 1 win this season is dreadful, but if you want to compare then do it against other Premier League clubs.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:39 am

Seems to be some confusion with how the findings are compiled & what the results actually mean due to some of the comments.

https://experimental361.com/2021/12/30/ ... gue-table/

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:48 am

Seriously
This was a gamble for them at the start as I don't think they had much of a clue as to how BFC actually operated or even the Prem League as a whole (spreadsheets show monetary facts but not the full details of how the club or league is run)
With that gamble they most likely covered their private wealth by using the leveraged buy, certainly with hopes of increasing revenues and then selling on at a profit some time in the future
The idea that Pace came in with comments like he wanted Dyche to stay for 25 years (his actual words, although he did reduce this term to 10 Years in later interviews) was naive at best
The "underdog" mentality which, like CT I abhor - people may grudgingly admire an underdog but they don't usually invest in any
So far, we have got a shiny new sign on the corner of Brunshaw and more flashing signs in the ground accompanied by some fantastic new music
And loads of new executive seats in the Bob Lord Stand - that are empty for almost every game
And a new shirt sponsor - they were against betting companies but since nobody else offered any sponsorship they had to backtrack on that little matter
Clearly they saw new investors as the way to add considerable funds to the operation but 12 months on there doesn't seem to be much happening
The idea that their plan was, in no way, dependant on staying in the Premier League also shows a total lack of understanding the implications of any relegation has despite all the history tales we see from other clubs going down that path
Let's also not forget that the three guys are most likely on substantial salaries for the excellent work they have produced so far

They may have not known what they were taking on at the start but they are going to find out the hard way over the next 12 months

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:36 am

Personally, ALK have always come across a bit naive when it comes to many things about our club and football in general, but no more so than when it came to relegation and how they will deal with it.

How the business model will work with such a huge loss in turnover when the structure of the initial deal, (outstanding payments) and the interest payable on all the debt will further impact the ability of the club to absorb the cost of relegation and affect a potential immediate return. Then further reduced turnover in the subsequent seasons spent in the Championship will only make it more difficult year on year.

Dyche's huge contract also has made him financially untouchable. It will be very expensive to remove him and if they do they will also look quite silly after openly praising him so much and saying they want him at the club forever.

There's other additional outgoings the club has not had to deal with before (ALK consultancy fees, house purchases in the area, AI Scout investment, eSports etc) all which accumulate and will all make it very difficult to have cash available to invest in the team if relegation happens.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:37 am

Some really odd comments on here around the “silly graphic”.

Hibeclatret takes is though by suggesting it’s like comparing test match cricket with Lancashire league cricket. It’s not.

To put it simply, the 92 league clubs are all professional sports clubs and they play the exact same game, to the same rules (VAR one difference I’ll accept) across the same period with the exact same points structure. If you win in the premier league you get 3 points, same in league two etc.

Nobody is saying we are a worse side than Oldham, that would be absurd.

However we are the worst performing football league side across an entire calendar year, a seasons worth of games, more in some instances.

If it helps rationalise it for the likes of Hibs, we are the worst performing premier league side across an entire calendar year.

If you aren’t alarmed by a statistic such as that then you are choosing to ignore what’s right in front of your eyes.

I can guarantee that the same people choosing to ignore it would be the same people lauding it should we be a division below and be top of the tree.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:48 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:37 am
Some really odd comments on here around the “silly graphic”.

Hibeclatret takes is though by suggesting it’s like comparing test match cricket with Lancashire league cricket. It’s not.

To put it simply, the 92 league clubs are all professional sports clubs and they play the exact same game, to the same rules (VAR one difference I’ll accept) across the same period with the exact same points structure. If you win in the premier league you get 3 points, same in league two etc.

Nobody is saying we are a worse side than Oldham, that would be absurd.

However we are the worst performing football league side across an entire calendar year, a seasons worth of games, more in some instances.

If it helps rationalise it for the likes of Hibs, we are the worst performing premier league side across an entire calendar year.

If you aren’t alarmed by a statistic such as that then you are choosing to ignore what’s right in front of your eyes.

I can guarantee that the same people choosing to ignore it would be the same people lauding it should we be a division below and be top of the tree.

If anyone thinks that 92 Club League Table is not the most serious and worrying stat seen by our fans in the last few seasons, they are truly fooling themselves and remote from the real world. Just as season end league tables dont lie, a table such as that taken over a full 12 months does not lie either

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:04 pm

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:48 am
If anyone thinks that 92 Club League Table is not the most serious and worrying stat seen by our fans in the last few seasons, they are truly fooling themselves and remote from the real world. Just as season end league tables dont lie, a table such as that taken over a full 12 months does not lie either

It’s frightening that we still seemingly have a portion of our support that aren’t too worried about this stat.

It’s about as damning a stat as there can ever be.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:09 pm

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:04 pm
It’s frightening that we still seemingly have a portion of our support that aren’t too worried about this stat.

It’s about as damning a stat as there can ever be.

Based on that chart we will finish this season on 27 points. I don’t understand how any fan can defend that table.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:11 pm

I think the table should just focus on Premier league teams,obviously if uiyr bear the bottom of the hardest league your going to be bottom of an overall league,why not include the Uninbond league, to really kick us in the nuts ?
It is very concerning buto regarding the Premier league only.

claret2018 · Post by **claret2018** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:14 pm

Who on Earth is paying£25m for McNeil lol. He’s been dog dirt all season

snapcrackleandpop · Post by **snapcrackleandpop** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:15 pm

Probably suffering from a big dose of buyers remorse.

daveisaclaret · Post by **daveisaclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:15 pm

I can see why people aren’t bothered about the table of all 92 clubs because in terms of the fortune of Burnley in the Premier League this season the comparison with Football League clubs is irrelevant. However, what the table also shows is that out of all 92 clubs in 2021, we were the fans with the least to shout about on the average match day. It’s grim.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:39 pm

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:11 pm
I think the table should just focus on Premier league teams,obviously if uiyr bear the bottom of the hardest league your going to be bottom of an overall league,why not include the Uninbond league, to really kick us in the nuts ?
It is very concerning buto regarding the Premier league only.

Take all the other none prem clubs out, we are still bottom.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:46 pm

Sadly that table does not show a "worsening trend". It shows 7 wins in 12 months but we know there is only one in the last 6 months. Those guys making projections for this season, and I have seen forecasted points of 27 quoted, may need to revise downwards

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:52 pm

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:36 am
I think confusion reigns with worst team or form throughout the calendar year of 2021.

Pretty much this. It has nothing to do with the division, but performance within the division and games played. Wider context - yes there are levels of quality between division but that is why we are called a Premier League club - we are expected to perform in the division we are in, and we are not.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:17 pm

claret2018 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:14 pm
Who on Earth is paying£25m for McNeil lol. He’s been dog dirt all season

People who know about football will look at his age and the potential he's already shown. He just needs some better footballers around him.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:49 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:39 pm
Take all the other none prem clubs out, we are still bottom.

But that is so blatantly obvious, we wont move a table wecare bottom off by removing teams,it's the context we are bottom of the Premier league on form that is the only thing that counts it is a real worry.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:54 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:09 pm
Based on that chart we will finish this season on 27 points. I don’t understand how any fan can defend that table.

You can't but I'll repeat the table includes teams at the bottom of League Two and I believe that's ridiculous.

It's there for all to see that we are nowhere near good enough based on the last year's results to be a Premier League club but how many points we win or lose shouldn't be compared with clubs from lesser leagues. If it should, why does it stop at League Two?

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:02 pm

jrgbfc wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:17 pm
People who know about football will look at his age and the potential he's already shown. He just needs some better footballers around him.

...and possibly better motivation and coaching. Huge talent but it appears he has not been helped to develop. Seems all over the place at the moment. Is he being given clear instructions, and what work is being done with him