Garlick Bashers

[DuckworthsEA]

Just out of interest, how much do you think ALK or any other buyer would of paid for the club if we had been in let’s say c£200m of debt?

Was Cornet much more expensive than Wood? Remember his signing pre-Garlick out.

I’m struggling to understand what either question has to do with any of the points you made in your original post, which was completely pointless in the first place.

[Belgianclaret]

I'm not enamoured by the new owners at this time. They don't appear to have any funding at all and are stacking up the debt having spent a lot of the reserves on a leveraged buy out. They, like every other owner, will have demands from fans to spend. We'll see what happens but they haven't spent much yet in the transfer market given the way they have set up deals coupled with the sale of Gibson.

Sums it up perfectly for me.

I’d even go so far as thinking the businessman Garlick saw the club as an opportunity to make money from the off. No crime of course, but sold the club to whomever paid the most and then agreed to leveraged buy out to venture capitalists.
Club was sold down the river, and Pace has a long way to go to prove the doubters (to whom I belong) wrong.

[bobinho]

It’s ********, pace has had two full windows and bought one first teamer.

Looking like no one decent coming in this window.

Would love to have seen the reaction to Garlick putting the club in massive debt, increasing ticket prices, let 11 players contracts run out in 6 months during a relegation battle and sign 1 first team player in 3 transfer windows.

Pace is just as liable for this.

Really?

He’s bought Cornet - surely I don’t need to explain how good a signing this is, as this is the ‘one’ you are alluding to.

He’s bought Collins. A very highly rated centre half who we will need in the coming months when “beckenbauer” trots off to pastures new. Good business for a good player and done at the proper time.

He’s bought Robert’s. A current welsh international and a very good player. Hasn’t featured properly yet due to a combination of injury and illness, but still a solid buy.

This window hasn’t closed yet, but I suspect we will see someone. Be too late mind, lack of investment from two/three years ago is what’s hurting us now.

[clarethomer]

Not read through the who thread but for me I feel that despite all the 'noise' that went with being a well run club and financially being kept within their means to anticipate the wellbeing and future sustainability of the club regardless of what happened in a season appears to have been all a lie and a way of keeping fans off asking too many questions about why we weren't spending more.

The way it reads to me now is that his primary objective was about 'fattening' up the turkey for his own consumption.

Those millions we weren't spending to avoid debt and the long term financial stability of the club seem to be no longer a concern for him now they are in his pocket.

He appears happy to take a whole load of profit from a club that he led us to believe his approach was to protect the club that was so important to the town and fans.

What I don't know though is how good/bad the financial situation is with the new owners but the fact that the 'noise' from the club is that we weren't expecting to spend much in January and whispers that we are looking for loans only to me really does worry me that the failure to invest in the team now will see us relegated.

I know buying new players doesn't guarantee our place next season but its that view and line that has been repeated by many (including me) that now appears to be biting us on the backside. Our lack of investment and success with the minimal investment we did make is really landing at Garlicks door because it was clear that he was controlling the purse strings.

[Dark Cloud]

Garlick became custodian of an extremely average Championship club with below average support for a Championship club and with no prospect of it ever being any better than said average Championship club. He got lucky and ultimately ended up with a multi million pound PL club worth a hell of a lot more than the club he took on. He also realised that it had then become too big an "animal" for someone in his position to now manage and to sustain at the level it had reached. So he sold up and made an extremely tidy profit. Fair dos to the guy as they say down Burnley. He did little wrong imo, except possibly being over cautious and holding back funds over a couple of later transfer windows which have arguably caused us to have issues now.

[ksrclaret]

Garlick became custodian of an extremely average Championship club with below average support for a Championship club and with no prospect of it ever being any better than said average Championship club. He got lucky and ultimately ended up with a multi million pound PL club worth a hell of a lot more than the club he took on. He also realised that it had then become too big an "animal" for someone in his position to now manage and to sustain at the level it had reached. So he sold up and made an extremely tidy profit. Fair dos to the guy as they say down Burnley. He did little wrong imo, except possibly being over cautious and holding back funds over a couple of later transfer windows which have arguably caused us to have issues now.

I think the key word there is custodian. A custodian is supposed to look after something, take care of it, and make decisions in the best interest of it.

Garlick acted purely in the best interests of himself.

[bobinho]

I find it strange that there are people backing garlick, and knocking Pace/ALK especially about the way the buy out has been funded.

If the way the club has been ‘bought’ is dodgy, or just plain wrong, blaming ALK seems a little short sighted. The chairman signed it off, he must’ve known it was a spectacularly bad business model as far as the club was concerned yet still he went with it to get the maximum return he could, so please….by all means chastise and harass ALK all you want, but it was the previous chairman who allowed this to get where we are.

Time may well tell us we should all have been worried about ALK, but that’s not quite so at the moment. What we DO know is the previous chairman fattened the pig as best he could before selling to the butcher, and we have people defending his record!!! He’s sloped off with a very healthy return leaving us where we are and ALK to take the flak. This is garlicks mess, and his alone.

[Billy Balfour]

In my opinion he was driven out of the club by fans

I know what you mean, mate. Nearly two thirds of the crowd chanting 'Garlick Out' at every home game and mass demos outside the Bob Lord. I mean, you couldn't move for 'em.

[TsarBomba]

It’s ********, pace has had two full windows and bought one first teamer.

Looking like no one decent coming in this window.

Would love to have seen the reaction to Garlick putting the club in massive debt, increasing ticket prices, let 11 players contracts run out in 6 months during a relegation battle and sign 1 first team player in 3 transfer windows.

Pace is just as liable for this.

You’ve decided you don’t like Pace and Co, without them being given a fair crack of the whip.

Don’t forget that the Garlick and Dyche relationship was toxic, board members weren’t speaking to each other, and something had to change.

And why is it looking like no-one will come in this window? What have you seen or heard to suggest that?

I actually think you want us to fail in the transfer window, get relegated, and for the club to implode just so you can have the perverse pleasure of saying ‘I told you so’.

[Burnleyareback2]

I’m struggling to understand what either question has to do with any of the points you made in your original post, which was completely pointless in the first place.

None at all, they were answers to questions that I was asked.

[Dark Cloud]

I think the key word there is custodian. A custodian is supposed to look after something, take care of it, and make decisions in the best interest of it.

Garlick acted purely in the best interests of himself.

I get what you're saying and only Garlick knows the truth, but I tend to believe he did act in what he thought was the best interests of the club and yes, almost inadvertently found himself sitting on a potential gold mine and cashed in. I always go back to when he took over as nobody in their right mind would have seen it as a sound business idea or money making proposition. Surely at that point only someone with their heart in the right place would have risked becoming chairman and taking us over.

[JohnMcGreal]

The best way to sell the club was to keep it as financially attractive as possible - cash in the bank.

The best way for who? The old owners trying to sell their shares? The new owners who didn't really have the money to buy them?

I'm yet to see how Burnley Football Club benefited from such a strategy.

[jojomk1]

Garlick began his issues with Dyche some years back
Good money spent on a new training ground (needed), plus more spent on backroom facilities including a state of the art academy
But what has that academy brought us - very little
Dyche is not bothered about youth and has no desire to promote from within
The emergence of McNeil was down to the fact that, at that time, all other wide men were injured so he got his chance through that, not Dyche identifying his skills
I go back to the away game against Norwich several years back, 2-0 up, playing against nine men and coasting to victory. Dyche had the opportunity to give any of the number of youngsters who were on the bench that day 5-10 mins of Prem experience and he wasn't even bothered to do that
Rigg was brought in to oversee the academy and also to get new, younger names onto potential transfer target lists being put for approval to Dyche but nothing came from this. People can blame Rigg himself for that but he must have been half decent at his job as previous roles included Tech Director for England and Man City
Instead we were mainly fed with a list of "experienced" players that Dyche preferred
Hart, Crouch, Walters, Wells, Bardsley, Lennon, Pieters, Stephens plus, questionably, Gibson, Vydra and Drinkwater
As for the money in the bank being lined up for Garlick himself, I will wait to see our next financial year results before making a comment as I am pretty sure our figures will show a loss that MG was planning to cover with that money
Garlick left because he and Dyche were totally at odds as to how move the club forward whilst maintaining a debt free balance sheet. Dyche was winning all the public battles and had a lot of followers. Garlick chose a dignified silence
He may have known part of how ALK were looking to finance the deal to buy him out but would they also have told him they were going to borrow extra money and had no new investors lined up to put additional funds in - I very much doubt that
Garlick maybe didn't trust their whole story hence the deal that he and JB get the club back if ALK don't come up with the rest of the money owed to them
In which case he wants this deal to succeed as much as anyone else as he may be the one who has to come back in and sort out a financial mess
And we all know Garlick and Dyche are highly unlikely to want to work together again

[bobinho]

I strongly agree with you jojomk1 regarding the emergence of McNeil. I highly doubt we’d be seeing him now had he not made himself undroppable after his initial immediate success on the pitch.

I strongly disagree with your latter suggestion that he’d come back to sort out any financial mess. There’s no way he’d ever return in my opinion. He had a blank canvas…. Almost unheard of these days in football, but he couldn’t wait to cash in and take the money. He’s done.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Really?

He’s bought Cornet - surely I don’t need to explain how good a signing this is, as this is the ‘one’ you are alluding to.

He’s bought Collins. A very highly rated centre half who we will need in the coming months when “beckenbauer” trots off to pastures new. Good business for a good player and done at the proper time.

He’s bought Robert’s. A current welsh international and a very good player. Hasn’t featured properly yet due to a combination of injury and illness, but still a solid buy.

This window hasn’t closed yet, but I suspect we will see someone. Be too late mind, lack of investment from two/three years ago is what’s hurting us now.

Exactly there is no way we would have signed Cornet, Collins and Roberts in the same window under Garlick. Obviously when you have a strange agenda against the owners you won’t be able to acknowledge this.

[gandhisflipflop]

It’s ********, pace has had two full windows and bought one first teamer.

Looking like no one decent coming in this window.

Would love to have seen the reaction to Garlick putting the club in massive debt, increasing ticket prices, let 11 players contracts run out in 6 months during a relegation battle and sign 1 first team player in 3 transfer windows.

Pace is just as liable for this.

Utter ********

[jojomk1]

I strongly agree with you jojomk1 regarding the emergence of McNeil. I highly doubt we’d be seeing him now had he not made himself undroppable after his initial immediate success on the pitch.

I strongly disagree with your latter suggestion that he’d come back to sort out any financial mess. There’s no way he’d ever return in my opinion. He had a blank canvas…. Almost unheard of these days in football, but he couldn’t wait to cash in and take the money. He’s done.

I didn't say he would want to come back and sort out any financial mess if that was the case - I did suggest he and Dyche would not be able to work together again

It's just that the terms of the deal would suggest MG and JB revert to controlling the club if ALK do not fulfill outstanding payments owed to them

Of course should that situation occur (and I hope it doesn't), there is nothing to stop MG and JB just taking what monies they currently have been given and just walk away

[daveisaclaret]

Find it quite funny that people on here are more angry with Newcastleclaret93 than Alan Pace. We shall see how that ages.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Find it quite funny that people on here are more angry with Newcastleclaret93 than Alan Pace. We shall see how that ages.

I’m sure in a few years he’ll be doing the same about the next owner whilst saying how the fans drove Pace out!

[bobinho]

“In which case he wants this deal to succeed as much as anyone else as he may be the one who has to come back in and sort out a financial mess”

Have I misunderstood the meaning here? Entirely possible as I do make the odd mistake…

[IanMcL]

Sums it up perfectly for me.

I’d even go so far as thinking the businessman Garlick saw the club as an opportunity to make money from the off. No crime of course, but sold the club to whomever paid the most and then agreed to leveraged buy out to venture capitalists.
Club was sold down the river, and Pace has a long way to go to prove the doubters (to whom I belong) wrong.

Yes!

[dsr]

He may have known part of how ALK were looking to finance the deal to buy him out but would they also have told him they were going to borrow extra money and had no new investors lined up to put additional funds in - I very much doubt that.

Of course he knew. Hav e you never sold any sort of valuable asset? If not, then ask someone who has.

When you sell a house, your solicitor gets all the details of the purchase before contracts are signed, including where the money is coming from. You don't sign the contract until the funding is clear and known. You don't hand over the keys until the cash has been transferred.

You think it would be different with £140m of shares? That Garlick would take on trust a man who he doesn't know, with few visible assets, and would sell him the shares without asking where the cash is coming from?

Anyway, Garlick is still a director. Of course he knew where the money was coming from. He wrote the cheque. (Metaphorically speaking.)

[dsr]

In which case he wants this deal to succeed as much as anyone else as he may be the one who has to come back in and sort out a financial mess
And we all know Garlick and Dyche are highly unlikely to want to work together again

He won't have to come back and sort out a financial mess. Just because he may once again become owner of the club, doesn't mean he has to do anything about it. He can let the club fold, he can sell his shares for pennies, he can strip the remaining assets. He has several options. He certainly doesn't have to pay back any of the money he has taken out.

[Billy Balfour]

Garlicbasher is the name of a Berlin dining club. Just saying.

[Spijed]

But what has that academy brought us - very little

Considering we haven't been Category one status for that long do people really expect us to be churning out top young players in the time we've been operating at that level?

Lewis Richardson is very highly rated.

[Rumbletonk]

Garlick became custodian of an extremely average Championship club with below average support for a Championship club and with no prospect of it ever being any better than said average Championship club. He got lucky and ultimately ended up with a multi million pound PL club worth a hell of a lot more than the club he took on. He also realised that it had then become too big an "animal" for someone in his position to now manage and to sustain at the level it had reached. So he sold up and made an extremely tidy profit. Fair dos to the guy as they say down Burnley. He did little wrong imo, except possibly being over cautious and holding back funds over a couple of later transfer windows which have arguably caused us to have issues now.

An extremely tidy profit!!! He released practically no funds to strengthen the 1st team for 2 & half years. I do think he came in with the best of intentions, not that I know either way, but I do know he was trying to sell the club for years. He has made a lot more money from our club, much more than he ever has from his business interests.

Fair enough making as much money as he has. Whats sticks in my throat is he was happy to gamble our PL survival on Dyche keeping us up with what he had at his disposal and then sold Burnley Football Club, leaving us swamped in debt. Its a superb business deal. Hope he sleeps well on it

[IanMcL]

If Garlick had any real thought for BFC, in his sale of the club, the £50m would have been left in the bank with conditions of use.

Other local owners (although remotely based) have just handed over the keys, on a promise to invest.

Our man wanted it all in his own bank. Mike Ashley could make a case for sainthood!

[Rumbletonk]

There's always such expectation. At the Brighton game on the opening day of the 2002/03 season, Kilby was booed when he came on the pitch to do a presentation, and all because we hadn't bought anyone in the summer as ITV Digital collapsed.

Garlick was hardly seen to be honest but I know he didn't like it when the fans chanted Kilby's name at Olympiacos. His way of running the club alienated a lot of people but he was clearly building up the reserves to get a better sale price for himself. I can't remember exactly when, but it was at least three years before the sale when a prospectus was sent out. He was obviously looking to sell for a long time.

I'm not enamoured by the new owners at this time. They don't appear to have any funding at all and are stacking up the debt having spent a lot of the reserves on a leveraged buy out. They, like every other owner, will have demands from fans to spend. We'll see what happens but they haven't spent much yet in the transfer market given the way they have set up deals coupled with the sale of Gibson.

I personally saw that prospectus. It was sent to someone I know. They were asking circa 100 mill at the time.

[BabylonClaret]

Lovely analogy alf_resco and probably accurate. Did I also read somewhere that Garlick also hadn't been paid either in part or in full yet? I think the point about offering up more funds........ maybe he thought that the not inconsiderable funds he made available one year ( 40M on Vydra, Gibson etc?), wasn't spent wisely by whoever was responsible for our transfer business and perhaps he lost his faith in those people as far as transfers were concerned?
Maybe the thought of clearing out those people dealing with transfers was unattractive nay near impossible and therefore it was time to dress up the shop window and find someone who can? That someone at the moment is Alan Pace and his co-investors. I think Garlick knew this day was coming and he perhaps didn't have the appetite for the significant overhauling that is required and plain to see and maybe there weren't too many other suitors out there hence the reverse buyout.
That decision is fine by me although I would have preferred an outfit that would have pumped more cash onto the balance sheet.
We've always been a club that couldn't stand the financial trauma of too many 'bad' transfers but without totting it up (am sure someone on here could provide a comprehensive list), it feels like we have made quite a few mistakes with our recruitment over the last ten years. And whoever is responsible for players contracts needs to give his/her head a wobble.

Going forward, now that the honeymoon period is officially over I would expect immediate action from the yanks and it might not be pretty. Can't see them just lying down and accepting relegation without a serious fight. Don't be fooled by the man with the smiley and incredibly bright white nashers!

Bullshit. Maybe if he'd got his finger out and supported Dyche earlier that window he'd have spent maybe a bit less on the first choice targets and certainly (in the case of Dawson) would have given us good service.

We've not had too many dud transfers over the years. The way some talk its as if Dyche has squandered millions season after season and then we've struggled.

[JohnDearyMe]

I know what you mean, mate. Nearly two thirds of the crowd chanting 'Garlick Out' at every home game and mass demos outside the Bob Lord. I mean, you couldn't move for 'em.

And who could forget the infamous 44:44 protest when all the crowd turned their back on the game...?!

[BabylonClaret]

Instead we were mainly fed with a list of "experienced" players that Dyche preferred
Hart, Crouch, Walters, Wells, Bardsley, Lennon, Pieters, Stephens plus, questionably, Gibson, Vydra and Drinkwater
As for the money in the bank being lined up for Garlick himself, I will wait to see our next financial year results before making a comment as I am pretty sure our figures will show a loss that MG was planning to cover with that money
Garlick left because he and Dyche were totally at odds

Really? It's amazing how much the history is being re written by those claiming Dyche only wants old lads who can't actually play well.

Pretty sure that Tony has already said a few toims Drinkwater was entirely Garlicks idea and I would be unsurprised to learn if Vydra wasn't another. Wells too give Dyche hardly played him.

Wells and Stephens were last minute filler signings. Lennon ditto this season as we desperately needed a RM. All the other you quote have either been decent acquisitions or were way down the original list of people we wanted that Sumner and were not brought in because we couldn't agree with West brom. The exceptions are Crouch (whi h was a makeweight in the Vokes deal where we did very well) and Walters who sadly picked up an early injury in the cup - a gamble that failed if you will but at less than 3m could have been a stroke of genius - remember he was still plating regularly and an international)

Bottom line for me is if that Dyche was rocking the boat and Gaick felt he couldn't work with him and knew the right approach was his own why didn't he back himself?

There's 100m reasons why he ******* didn't. He funcked us over with his dodgy deal with ALK and may even turn up to reinhardt once they've pptted Dyche and get in trouble next season

[Elizabeth]

Life might look like this next season

Hennessy
Lowton
Collins
Long
Pieters
Lennon
Westwood
Brownhill
Gudmundsson
Rodrigues
Barnes

Missing names all sold and money used to pay second instalment to Garlick and Dyche’s pay off. A little left over for a couple of new signings for the Championship

[Belgianclaret]

If Garlick had any real thought for BFC, in his sale of the club, the £50m would have been left in the bank with conditions of use.

Other local owners (although remotely based) have just handed over the keys, on a promise to invest.

Our man wanted it all in his own bank. Mike Ashley could make a case for sainthood!

Exactly !

[CrosspoolClarets]

One thing I haven’t read on this partly anti-Pace thread is a reminder that he of course flew personally to France and convinced Maxwel to come. In one fell swoop that has delivered more than predecessors in recent years with transfers.

My hope is that ALK may be cash poor but judgement rich, if they make several great decisions a year that in itself could generate £50m annually once those sales come in. Half a dozen purchases each season translating to two or three really big sales. That can be the only way to keeping our PL status while repairing the finances.