Alan Nixon on ALK, worrying

[ClaretTony]

It’s either Hugh Grant or Harry Garlick

That's a good choice

[Lowbankclaret]

More bad news.

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... w8lKvRBJ3o

No wonder they like us actual fans who turn up to matches.

[Lowbankclaret]

It’s either Hugh Grant or Harry Garlick

I shouldn’t try posting and watching TV, leads to silly mistakes.

[gtclaret]

To be fair Dyche has also ****** away a lot of finance that Garlick provided. It works both ways, would we be in this position if Gibson, Vydra etc… we’re actually used/effective.

All managers make bad signings over a period of time. Look at some of Alex Fergusons signings. Overall SD has been very successful. Some of the signings were desperate as we couldn't get the players we wanted. I ran a business for 25 years and the last thing I would do is cut back on the things that created the wealth. Bob Lord cut back on the youth policy in the 1970s and look how that ended. Also what must be remembered is that Garlick agreed to this sale and the way the finance was structured. To let him off the hook is nonsense

[Somethingfishy]

I've not read every comment on this thread of now 6 pages but the ones i have read....wow. Pull yourselves together and look at the picture with the facts we know!
We've curiously had two national newspaper articles claiming doom and gloom. Little in the way of actual fact. One of which has been instantly dismissed not only by the Chairman but by the people he owes money to.

Now I say curious because the timing is quite telling. Just as we are desperately looking to attract players to give us any chance of staying up. Does that not immediately ring alarm bells with any of you? Why did this not come out a month or so ago?
Press manipulation and propoganda is becoming a serious problem in this country and the worry is the sheer amount of people who hang on their every word without any basis whatsoever. Preying on peoples fears and misconceptions.Pandering to opinion and not always facts.

There just seems to be a groundswell of anti-Burnley sentiment out there at the moment and this is just a manifestation of it. We can only see what happens in the rest of this window before we hit any sort of panic button.

[beddie]

I've not read every comment on this thread of now 6 pages but the ones i have read....wow. Pull yourselves together and look at the picture with the facts we know!
We've curiously had two national newspaper articles claiming doom and gloom. Little in the way of actual fact. One of which has been instantly dismissed not only by the Chairman but by the people he owes money to.

Now I say curious because the timing is quite telling. Just as we are desperately looking to attract players to give us any chance of staying up. Does that not immediately ring alarm bells with any of you? Why did this not come out a month or so ago?
Press manipulation and propoganda is becoming a serious problem in this country and the worry is the sheer amount of people who hang on their every word without any basis whatsoever. Preying on peoples fears and misconceptions.Pandering to opinion and not always facts.

There just seems to be a groundswell of anti-Burnley sentiment out there at the moment and this is just a manifestation of it. We can only see what happens in the rest of this window before we hit any sort of panic button.

Good post. Could this propaganda becoming from another premiership club !!!

[Spijed]

Good post. Could this propaganda becoming from another premiership club !!!

As I said elsewhere, Watford look a slightly better bet to get out of trouble so why aren't they being targeted as well?

[Vegas Claret]

funnily enough, all this bad press could be the one thing that absolutely brings everyone together - siege mentality

[boatshed bill]

I've not read every comment on this thread of now 6 pages but the ones i have read....wow. Pull yourselves together and look at the picture with the facts we know!
We've curiously had two national newspaper articles claiming doom and gloom. Little in the way of actual fact. One of which has been instantly dismissed not only by the Chairman but by the people he owes money to.

Now I say curious because the timing is quite telling. Just as we are desperately looking to attract players to give us any chance of staying up. Does that not immediately ring alarm bells with any of you? Why did this not come out a month or so ago?
Press manipulation and propoganda is becoming a serious problem in this country and the worry is the sheer amount of people who hang on their every word without any basis whatsoever. Preying on peoples fears and misconceptions.Pandering to opinion and not always facts.

There just seems to be a groundswell of anti-Burnley sentiment out there at the moment and this is just a manifestation of it. We can only see what happens in the rest of this window before we hit any sort of panic button.

How is showing concern seen as being anti-Burnley?

[warksclaret]

I've not read every comment on this thread of now 6 pages but the ones i have read....wow. Pull yourselves together and look at the picture with the facts we know!
We've curiously had two national newspaper articles claiming doom and gloom. Little in the way of actual fact. One of which has been instantly dismissed not only by the Chairman but by the people he owes money to.

Now I say curious because the timing is quite telling. Just as we are desperately looking to attract players to give us any chance of staying up. Does that not immediately ring alarm bells with any of you? Why did this not come out a month or so ago?
Press manipulation and propoganda is becoming a serious problem in this country and the worry is the sheer amount of people who hang on their every word without any basis whatsoever. Preying on peoples fears and misconceptions.Pandering to opinion and not always facts.

There just seems to be a groundswell of anti-Burnley sentiment out there at the moment and this is just a manifestation of it. We can only see what happens in the rest of this window before we hit any sort of panic button.

Sorry but businesses, companies and football clubs make their own positivity and that in turn keeps customers and fans contented. We used to be able to do it three to five years ago with less know how then and experience. We bought shrewdly, obviously did more research on player availability, got some great free transfers. We then knitted them together and got the best out of the team on fairly low wages. I accept there is a lot of negativity on here at present , but by the same gesture it does not take a lot of good news to lift our fan base, and get them backing our famous club.I think the key word is PRIDE

[Somethingfishy]

How is showing concern seen as being anti-Burnley?

The journos are not concerned for us. Why create two articles one day after the other just at this moment of time? You must be noseblind if you don't smell a rat.
Burnley fans are right to be concerned about Burnley issues but all I am seeing is Burnley fans having a meltdown on being reminded how we were bought. There is nothing factually new in these articles. It's pure mischief making in my opinion.

[boatshed bill]

The journos are not concerned for us. Why create two articles one day after the other just at this moment of time? You must be noseblind if you don't smell a rat.
Burnley fans are right to be concerned about Burnley issues but all I am seeing is Burnley fans having a meltdown on being reminded how we were bought. There is nothing factually new in these articles. It's pure mischief making in my opinion.

Then I am noseblind.
The sale of Chris Wood is what has sparked all this.

[clarethomer]

This is a fair summary of the challenge we have - although I dont agree having Wood would have necessarily helped us as much as some would think.

[Somethingfishy]

Then I am noseblind.
The sale of Chris Wood is what has sparked all this.

The sale we had no choice in because they triggered a release clause put into his contract presumably agreed by Mike Garlick and co?

It has certainly sparked a panic and fear amongst us that is for sure..and i share some of those fears. 10 days left yet before we can truly see the end result of that. However we are worrying over things that may or may not be true and all because of mischief making stories in two less than reliable rags. Like i said before..some people really need to pull themselves together.

[Spiral]

I've nothing to contribute to the story about the financial situation and whatnot, but honestly if Dyche somehow manages to pull this off and keep us in the league this year, we need to start thinking about renaming the bloody town after him, never mind a pub! Dycheville or something. PL manager of the decade if we survive this.

[tiger76]

Then I am noseblind.
The sale of Chris Wood is what has sparked all this.

It's not the selling of Chris Wood which is sparking concerns, it's more that we don't appear to be intending to reinvest those very funds, when we could do with strengthening our squad in the midst of a relegation fight.

[boatshed bill]

This is a fair summary of the challenge we have - although I dont agree having Wood would have necessarily helped us as much as some would think.

Agreed, Wood was terribly off form.
I guess I'm not prepared to go with a conspiracy theory.
We've sold and appear not to have a replacement lined up, which has triggered speculation over our owners and our financial wellbeing.
I think this is perfectly understandable.

[joey13]

A couple of newspaper articles and a segment on a radio show questioning our dubious new owners ,cue the paranoia and the no one likes us brigade

[Somethingfishy]

Agreed, Wood was terribly off form.
I guess I'm not prepared to go with a conspiracy theory.
We've sold and appear not to have a replacement lined up, which has triggered speculation over our owners and our financial wellbeing.
I think this is perfectly understandable.

It caught us by surprise quite simply..and catching a less than reliable recruitment team off guard was always a recipe for disaster. Nothing new or surprising in that. I don't see how that equates with questioning our finances though. It is just fans (fuelled by the media) looking to blame poor/slow recruitment on something...and that is with 10 days left..meanwhile some of our fans are already donning their straw hats, lighting their lanterns and have pitchforks in hand ready to march round to APs house to lynch him. Really?

[Swizzlestick]

It's not the selling of Chris Wood which is sparking concerns, it's more that we don't appear to be intending to reinvest those very funds, when we could do with strengthening our squad in the midst of a relegation fight.

Even though we’re actively bidding for players? Orsic? The Iranian lad? We’re a tough sell - rock bottom, unglamorous, and avoiding the discussion regarding our current finances, we’re not even in the same finance bracket as a Watford. I think there needs to be some calmer heads.

[Somethingfishy]

A couple of newspaper articles and a segment on a radio show questioning our dubious new owners ,cue the paranoia and the no one likes us brigade

No. Just that some of us have a sense of perspective.

[boatshed bill]

It caught us by surprise quite simply..and catching a less than reliable recruitment team off guard was always a recipe for disaster. Nothing new or surprising in that. I don't see how that equates with questioning our finances though. It is just fans (fuelled by the media) looking to blame poor/slow recruitment on something...and that is with 10 days left..meanwhile some of our fans are already donning their straw hats, lighting their lanterns and have pitchforks in hand ready to march round to APs house to lynch him. Really?

Really?

[Somethingfishy]

Really?

Yes..Really!

[joey13]

No. Just that some of us have a sense of perspective.

But ironically you don’t recognise something fishy

[Lowbankclaret]

I've nothing to contribute to the story about the financial situation and whatnot, but honestly if Dyche somehow manages to pull this off and keep us in the league this year, we need to start thinking about renaming the bloody town after him, never mind a pub! Dycheville or something. PL manager of the decade if we survive this.

I agree, but I think his special dust he sprinkles has run out.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Have we had an 'exciting times' yet?

[Burnleyareback2]

Is Nixon on Newcastles payroll now by any chance?

[Dark Cloud]

Imo none of it is really worrying if we stay in the the PL. It's if we don't and our income drops dramatically, then yes I can see us being in the poo. That's why I'm convinced the owners MUST be running around like the proverbials behind the scenes basically 24/7 trying to get players in right now, because it's their bums on the line as much as ours.

[ClaretPete001]

Hi Pete, first thing, based on reports at the time of takeover, the term loan from MSD is £60 million (£102m was the reported amount paid by ALK to directors at the time). We've all guessed that the interest rate is 9% - this is based on the information disclosed by Southampton who also have MSD financing, but we don't know how similar the terms are. 9% interest equates to £5.4m per annum. I think it's been suggested that it may be a "pay-in-kind" (aka PIK) loan, so the interest isn't paid in cash, but is added to the loan each year and only paid of when the loan matures. (I don't know if there's any public domain confirmation of this arrangement). Good news for the club's cash flow, if the loan is PIK, though it does mean the loan will grow every year until maturity.

Based on the charges filed at Companies House - I posted some details about these a few days back, not just in respect BFC entities, but also Calder Vale (the direct shareholder of the club) and Kettering Capital - MSD has extensive security and these includes the shareholdings that Calder Vale holds in BFC. These charges refer to a Term Loan Agreement, however, the TLA is not in the public domain and it's not possible to guess at the details. However, the financing arrangements at the time of an acquisition will have full knowledge of all other terms relating to the acquisition. MSD will have full knowledge of the arrangements entered into between ALK and MG/JB. They will have full knowledge of the vendor financing, the 3 instalments and the terms that relate to the payment or non-payment of those 3 instalments. I would expect that MSD ranks before MG/JB in any amounts due from ALK and that this will include the provisions should any of the 3 instalments not be paid by ALK to MG/JB according to their terms. I'd expect that there will be default clauses in the MSD TLA that will be triggered if ALK default to MG/JB such that MSD's position is protected. On the other hand, MSD may not wish to - and as a lender to a number of football clubs, may not be able to - step in and hold the BFC shares themselves. It may be that MG/JB recovering the shares in the club is the best way of MSD securing their own loan - and that MSD has recourse to both ALK directors and BFC for the recovery of any amounts outstanding on their loan.

As always, I have no inside knowledge. My comments are based on media reports at the time of the takeover, documents that are in the public domain through Companies House filings and a little personal knowledge of how some corporate finance deals have worked.

So, if ALK defaulted on the loans to JB / MG but not MSD you are suggesting that theoretically MG /JB would be contractually allowed to take their shares back but presumably would have to incur the liability of the 60 million pound loan from MSD.

In other words JB / MG would effectively have borrowed 60 million quid from MSD to pay themselves and in turn the money would be secured by the assets of Burnley Football Club.

Somewhere out there is 42 million quid, which is unaccounted for but at best the club would inherit a 60 million pound debt.

If the club is relegated the 68 million still owed to MG /JB disappears but the club still has to service at least 60 million quid's worth of debt or simply absorb the repayments - so theoretically 60, 70 , 80 million would be held on its balance sheet to be funded at some future point dependent upon the repayment method.

If the club did get relegated and did not get promoted back immediately that debt would begin to look quite substantive. The clubs turnover would plummet from 140 million to around 40 / 50 million within 3-4 years (that is the experience of other clubs of our size relegated from the Premiership) and at that point we would have a turnover of 40 - 50 million and debts of potentially over 60 million.

On the upside, the club could stay in the premiership and in 3 or 4 years time ALK could realise the value of their asset? The only problem with that is that only one club of our size has managed to do that - Blackburn Rovers when it was bankrolled by Jack Walker. Since then Premiership clubs are owned by Oligarchs, billionaires and Arab states.

And then there is ALK a company with no trading history, a web site, which shows no activity and a company that has no obvious signs of being able to generate income other than an investment in an AI product.

Seriously, Paul you cannot think that is good news for Burnley FC.

[ClaretPete001]

If MSD are unable to recover any money from ALK, then, logic says that they will exercise their security over BFC assets and see how much they can recover via BFC. Similarly, if MSD can't recover any money from ALK there's no chance of BFC recovering any of their loan to ALK.

End result, if all these things come to pass: BFC is back where it was before Mike Garlick and John B arrived as shareholders - but we've had 7 seasons in the Premier League under their leadership.

And herein lies the problem

If ALK cannot meet the 68 million to MG / JB then they will be lumbered with at least a 60 million debt from MSD.

A company that cannot even afford a decent web site is not going to fund a 60 million debt on an asset they do not own.

MSD would would liquidate the assets of the club....!

You are asking us to believe that an American venture capital company is so utterly stupid they have allowed a loophole whereby MG / JB can get back their asset and keep 102 million quid because MSD are too stupid to know any better.

This is not any kind of business reality that I have ever encountered I can only assume I have misunderstood your point.

[Bordeauxclaret]

They were moved around and didn't suit the schedules for other countries.

Has this ever been confirmed that we received less money?

Do they pay more for 12 or so more ideally timed games than they did for 38 less ideally timed?

[boatshed bill]

You are asking us to believe that an American venture capital company is so utterly stupid they have allowed a loophole whereby MG / JB can get back their asset and keep 102 million quid because MSD are too stupid to know any better.

Hasn't the capital already gone?

[BurnleyFC]

Are we a bigger global brand than Land Rover yet?

[taio]

Hasn't the capital already gone?

Presumably the point is that there are capital assets of the club.that can be liquidated in the event of default.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Has this ever been confirmed that we received less money?

Do they pay more for 12 or so more ideally timed games than they did for 38 less ideally timed?

https://media.sportbusiness.com/news/pr ... ts-rebate/

Information about the rebates here.

[ClaretPete001]

Hasn't the capital already gone?

No there are players and a ground etc....!

[Bordeauxclaret]

https://media.sportbusiness.com/news/pr ... ts-rebate/

Information about the rebates here.

Interesting. That was before the restart.
Was anything said about last season?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Interesting. That was before the restart.
Was anything said about last season?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... risis.html

Article from December last year, but nothing really for last season

[beddie]

Anyone got the link supposedly written by Nixon ( which he later said it wasn’t him ) saying Pace and Co were looking to sell the Club and that they had defaulted on payments, mention was made of all the players being up for sale if valuations were met. I’ve read the one later today where Pace responded but I wanted to see the first one. If anyone can help. Thanks.

[ClaretTony]

Anyone got the link supposedly written by Nixon ( which he later said it wasn’t him ) saying Pace and Co were looking to sell the Club and that they had defaulted on payments, mention was made of all the players being up for sale if valuations were met. I’ve read the one later today where Pace responded but I wanted to see the first one. If anyone can help. Thanks.

The link is at the top of this thread

[beddie]

CT. If you mean the top of this page that one’s about the empty seats.

[ClaretTony]

CT. If you mean the top of this page that one’s about the empty seats.

At the top of the thread (page 1)

[CrosspoolClarets]

This is one of those times that even if you are a financial expert you won’t have the foggiest what’s going on, it’s all conjecture.

All I know is that the old owners had three summer windows and bought Brownhill and little else. The new owners have had one summer window and bought Cornet, Collins, Hennessy and Roberts. They lost Wood but to a king’s ransom out of their hands. They have apparently bid for some big name players in this window.

That’s it. That’s all I know. I don’t see anything there to be concerned about.

[beddie]

Thanks CT. I clearly hadn’t read your first reply correctly. Thanks again.

[Vegas Claret]

A company that cannot even afford a decent web site is not going to fund a 60 million debt on an asset they do not own.

they don't need a website, there are hundreds of thousands of successful companies that don't have a website or even an office - it's utterly irrelevant

[Newcastleclaret93]

they don't need a website, there are hundreds of thousands of successful companies that don't have a website or even an office - it's utterly irrelevant

I have literally never seen a multi million pound company without a website.

[CnBtruntru]

Good post. Could this propaganda becoming from another premiership club !!!

Never, they wouldn't do anything like that to survive, would they?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Never, they wouldn't do anything like that to survive, would they?

Why would they target the only club in the entire football league with a worst points per game ratio than them last year?

Or maybe it’s simply our club is approaching crisis point and journalists are beginning to report on it.

[Jakubclaret]

This is one of those times that even if you are a financial expert you won’t have the foggiest what’s going on, it’s all conjecture.

All I know is that the old owners had three summer windows and bought Brownhill and little else. The new owners have had one summer window and bought Cornet, Collins, Hennessy and Roberts. They lost Wood but to a king’s ransom out of their hands. They have apparently bid for some big name players in this window.

That’s it. That’s all I know. I don’t see anything there to be concerned about.

You obviously haven’t seen the league table & grasped the impact of relegation.

[bfcjg]

What are the facts ? There is so much guessing and conjecture it is getting ridiculous and might become a self fulfilling prophecy if we are not careful.
Heaven forbid the worst came to the worst as long as a team played on grass in Burnley with a Claret and blue strip on within a minute or two's walk of lots of pubs I'd be content. My club represent my town not some F in bunch of venture capitalists or a local guy made good (BK excepted) we are better then botoxed,teeth whitened/ veneered, Brylcreamed ex pros who have only played for money no object benefactor/massive city clubs saying our hard working team can't live with the very best footballers on the planet who play for wages we cannot or ever will afford. F the lot of them UTC .