Highway code

[Inchy]

Cycle lanes are great when they are done right. I lived in Netherlands for a time, they do cycle lanes right over there. In my experience, we don't design cycle lanes correctly in the UK, though I'm sure there will be some good examples of proper design. Just one of the issues why cyclists don't use (some) cycle lanes is that many of the cycle lanes are not safe for the cyclists to use. The changes to the HWC are good and necessary. A hierarchy of "vulnerability" is a sensible way of laying out the requirement of all road users taking responsibility not only for their own safety but focusing on the safety of other road users who are more vulnerable.

Totally agree with this. I tried cycling to work down York road in leeds which had a fortune spent on it creating cycle lanes. The cycle lanes are less safe than the road. Countless potholes and grates, dozens of pedestrian and car crossing points on the space of a couple of miles. Totally unridable on a road bike, barely rideable on a mountain bike. It’s safer on the road

[dsr]

Time to give up driving and surrender your license for anybody who can't shift in their seat a bit to open a car door with the opposing hand.

If you're so opposed to even partially disabled people driving, then I presume you aren't even partially disabled yourself? I think perhaps you're missing the point of the this "wrong hand" stuff. The Highway Code is not saying that opening the door with the wrong hand is an end in itself. It is saying that it is an encouragement to using proper observation before opening the door.

I think they have made a mistake in putting it in, because obviously there is a much bigger blind spot in looking over your shoulder than there is in using a wing mirror, and emphasising the shoulder check ahead of the mirror check is foolish IMO. A shoulder check is just a final check of who is beside the car, not who is twenty yards away and approaching. If you can't do the shoulder check, then a proper two or three second mirror check is fine.

[Rowls]

If you're so opposed to even partially disabled people driving, then I presume you aren't even partially disabled yourself? I think perhaps you're missing the point of the this "wrong hand" stuff. The Highway Code is not saying that opening the door with the wrong hand is an end in itself. It is saying that it is an encouragement to using proper observation before opening the door.

I think they have made a mistake in putting it in, because obviously there is a much bigger blind spot in looking over your shoulder than there is in using a wing mirror, and emphasising the shoulder check ahead of the mirror check is foolish IMO. A shoulder check is just a final check of who is beside the car, not who is twenty yards away and approaching. If you can't do the shoulder check, then a proper two or three second mirror check is fine.

Disabled people may need specially adapted cars to meet their needs.

Regular cars require you to be able to turn around in your seat in order to reverse.

This was the case when I learned to drive and I don't think this requirement has changed.

[aggi]

If you're so opposed to even partially disabled people driving, then I presume you aren't even partially disabled yourself? I think perhaps you're missing the point of the this "wrong hand" stuff. The Highway Code is not saying that opening the door with the wrong hand is an end in itself. It is saying that it is an encouragement to using proper observation before opening the door.

I think they have made a mistake in putting it in, because obviously there is a much bigger blind spot in looking over your shoulder than there is in using a wing mirror, and emphasising the shoulder check ahead of the mirror check is foolish IMO. A shoulder check is just a final check of who is beside the car, not who is twenty yards away and approaching. If you can't do the shoulder check, then a proper two or three second mirror check is fine.

Only one seat in the car has a wing mirror that will show that though.

[aggi]

Even a casual look at the number of deaths or serious injuries that could not be further from the truth.

Ha, I interpreted that completely different. Potholes are a much bigger danger to cyclists than potholes are a danger to cars.

[dsr]

Only one seat in the car has a wing mirror that will show that though.

On the passenger side there is unlikely to be anyone coming so fast that they can't avoid a carefully opened door, and the person in back on the driver's side can wait for the driver if need be. Anyway, Rowls wasn't suggesting that people who can't turn round should be banned from travelling in a motor car full stop, only that they shouldn't drive, and the driver only occupies that one seat.

The point is that you should use careful observation before getting out. The emphasis on which hand you open the door with is detracting from that point.

[dsr]

Regular cars require you to be able to turn around in your seat in order to reverse.

There is no extra legal requirement for car drivers to be able to turn round. Van drivers are allowed to reverse without turning round and looking through the back window, since vans often don't have a back window; there is no extra law that makes different rules for car drivers.

Besides, reversing looking backwards involves twisting to the left. The Highway Code door opener involves twisting to the right. What's your position on people who can look over their left shoulder and not their right?

[CombatClaret]

It’s difficult to ascertain causes, over a period of time the damage that’s caused can gradually result in accidents or swerving out of the way & then hitting something, potholes aren’t to blame for everything but before we think of more cycle lanes we need to be looking at more sustainable surfaces more permanent fixes than sticking plasters.

It's not that hard to investigate the cause of a road death. You can invent fictional scenarios where a pothole was to blame but not recorded but that's all it is, a hypothetical you've made up. Look at the data that's actually out there.

Between 2015-19, potholes were recorded as contributing to the deaths of, on average two cyclists per year. That's out of the 100+ every year and in 2020 reached 140.
Same sort of ratio for serious injury, potholes = 50 injuries per year. Total injnuries in the thousands.

So to say potholes are a bigger danger to cylicsts than cars, or that fixing potholes will do more good than propper, safe, segregated cycling infrastructure is just wrong.

[TheFamilyCat]

Totally agree with this. I tried cycling to work down York road in leeds which had a fortune spent on it creating cycle lanes. The cycle lanes are less safe than the road. Countless potholes and grates, dozens of pedestrian and car crossing points on the space of a couple of miles. Totally unridable on a road bike, barely rideable on a mountain bike. It’s safer on the road

I haven't ridden down that side but commuted to Bradford on the other end of the 'Cycle Superhighway". It wasn't long after it opened and it was a nightmare; pedestrians wandering about on it, folk queuing for buses on it and cars not giving way at junctions and blocking the way as they waited to pull out onto the road.

[aggi]

On the passenger side there is unlikely to be anyone coming so fast that they can't avoid a carefully opened door, and the person in back on the driver's side can wait for the driver if need be. Anyway, Rowls wasn't suggesting that people who can't turn round should be banned from travelling in a motor car full stop, only that they shouldn't drive, and the driver only occupies that one seat.

The point is that you should use careful observation before getting out. The emphasis on which hand you open the door with is detracting from that point.

I'd say I most commonly nearly get doored by people getting out of the back seat of taxis. Telling people to just look should be sufficient but it clearly isn't so I guess it's time to try something different.

I'm pretty sure Rowls' comments were just Rowls being Rowls.

[boatshed bill]

Not read the whole thread, but:
haven't pedestrians always had priority on any road, we are not allowed to hit them.

[Jakubclaret]

It's not that hard to investigate the cause of a road death. You can invent fictional scenarios where a pothole was to blame but not recorded but that's all it is, a hypothetical you've made up. Look at the data that's actually out there.

Between 2015-19, potholes were recorded as contributing to the deaths of, on average two cyclists per year. That's out of the 100+ every year and in 2020 reached 140.
Same sort of ratio for serious injury, potholes = 50 injuries per year. Total injnuries in the thousands.

So to say potholes are a bigger danger to cylicsts than cars, or that fixing potholes will do more good than propper, safe, segregated cycling infrastructure is just wrong.

I’ve not studied any data or statistics I just know potholes are a bloody pain in the arse on 2 wheels or 4 & create a lot of problems I don’t give a monkeys about cycle lanes or making life easier for them, what I do want is the pothole problem sorting out & that will benefit all road users.

[Lowbankclaret]

This seems to be a major design flaw.

How do you manage to reverse, for example?

Mirrors, and turn around.
I help at a car sale place at weekend and reverse about 30 cars a weekend.

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You just cannot get you opposite hand down there, you can just see the silver shine of the door handle.

[Lowbankclaret]

This seems to be a major design flaw.

How do you manage to reverse, for example?

I will just say it’s a 2004, just a few years before this Highway Code change.

[Rowls]

I will just say it’s a 2004, just a few years before this Highway Code change.

Hmmmm, perhaps this cunning piece of design forces you to peer into the wing mirror as you stretch to open the door?

Myabe method in their madness after all.

[Lowbankclaret]

Great start to the new rules today. Group of cyclists blocked the road for 8 miles and would not allow traffic to pass, according to reports online.

Driving home through Padiham , late teenager just walked out in front of a van who had to slam all on to stop. Could not hear what driver shouted. But had the window to hear the lad shout “ my f****** right of way mate now “

This is going to get very dangerous, unintended consequences springs to mind.

[Devils_Advocate]

Great start to the new rules today. Group of cyclists blocked the road for 8 miles and would not allow traffic to pass, according to reports online.

Driving home through Padiham , late teenager just walked out in front of a van who had to slam all on to stop. Could not hear what driver shouted. But had the window to hear the lad shout “ my f****** right of way mate now “

This is going to get very dangerous, unintended consequences springs to mind.

If you ever consider changing your username Id suggest Henny-Penny

[Bordeauxclaret]

Driving home through Padiham , late teenager just walked out in front of a van who had to slam all on to stop. Could not hear what driver shouted. But had the window to hear the lad shout “ my f****** right of way mate now

[Lowbankclaret]

Give people the power they will abuse it.

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[Lowbankclaret]

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As it says people should not wander in the road with abandon, but they will, now they have priority n the pecking order.

Be an interesting few months ahead.

[Devils_Advocate]

Mr Bull(sh*t)ey getting completely ratioed on Twitter

https://twitter.com/stevebulleyUK/statu ... 6830957568

[basil6345789]

Will you still get 10 points for a dog on a lead?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Anyone else noticed a rise in people get their front windscreens done with reflective tinting?

It's probably a coincidence, but it means they can't be seen on their phone by a policeman ahead of them