Changes re - cyclists and pedestrians..

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but there seems to be some very strange new ideas..Could lead to some very serious accidents allowing people to just walk across the road willy nilly at junctions.Then again it's been happening for a while as they look at their mobiles.

Yes very much so.
Pedestrians given right of way over cars, looks like a great new rule for scammers.

Cyclist encouraged to ride in the center of the lane in certain circumstances and a new minimum 1.5 meter distance car drivers have to maintain when overtaking.

New rule on opening cars doors using the opposite arm to the door, which if not done can result in 6 points and £1000 fine. I tried it in my Land Rover and it’s physically impossible to get to the door release handle with your opposite arm.

I think you're misreading a lot of these. Where is the rule on how to open a door? There is some guidance (pretty silly stuff too, IMO) but where does it say you get 6 points? If you forget to look behind you you can get a penalty for opening your door into the path of a car or bike, but that's always been the case. There is no penalty for using the wrong hand.

The idea that you can safely overtake a bike at less than 5 feet distance at over 30 mph, is dangerous. It's just as well the Highway Code now spells out that you shouldn't be overtaking bikes at speed and at close range. Give them room.

Cyclists were encouraged to ride in the middle of the road in certain circumstances under the old code. It's safe to overtake a gaggle of cyclists in one go when they are riding in a bunch, then one at once over a longer distance when riding in single file. (Especially if you do it a 40 mph a yard away from them!

The one about giving way to pedestrians when they crossing at a side street is a bit stupid. But it's only a recommendation, not a rule.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... y-code.pdf

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:00 pm

Yes very much so.
Pedestrians given right of way over cars, looks like a great new rule for scammers.

Cyclist encouraged to ride in the center of the lane in certain circumstances and a new minimum 1.5 meter distance car drivers have to maintain when overtaking.

New rule on opening cars doors using the opposite arm to the door, which if not done can result in 6 points and £1000 fine. I tried it in my Land Rover and it’s physically impossible to get to the door release handle with your opposite arm.

Regarding the opening of doors, presumably that’s to make you aware of traffic coming from behind, as you would automatically move your head to the right (rhd) which gives you better vision.

I’m a cyclist myself and can see the logic in some of the new changes. It’s just a pity so many cyclists don’t value their life in so much as they don’t fit lights to their bicycles and ride around with headphones on, oblivious to what is happening around them on our overcrowded often dangerous roads. I personally would want to be visible to and be aware of a big 44 tonne lorry right behind me.

Jamesy wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:24 pm

I’m a cyclist myself and can see the logic in some of the new changes. It’s just a pity so many cyclists don’t value their life in so much as they don’t fit lights to their bicycles and ride around with headphones on, oblivious to what is happening around them on our overcrowded often dangerous roads. I personally would want to be visible to and be aware of a big 44 tonne lorry right behind me.

Just saying that to the Mrs the other day ... we were driving back from Skipton in the dusk and a Cyclist was doing just that ... no lights and earphones in ... bloody maniac

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:38 pm

Just saying that to the Mrs the other day ... we were driving back from Skipton in the dusk and a Cyclist was doing just that ... no lights and earphones in ... bloody maniac

I cycle but can never understand especially this time of year how many cyclist wear dark clothing, even in late evening.

Pretty much none of it is new. It's just reinforcing the existing stuff that gets ignored. They aren't bringing in new legislation to go with it.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:38 pm

Just saying that to the Mrs the other day ... we were driving back from Skipton in the dusk and a Cyclist was doing just that ... no lights and earphones in ... bloody maniac

It’s crazy isn’t it? These LED light sets than run for ages on a couple of batteries can be purchased for as little as a tenner. Surely someone’s life is worth a tenner?

The opening door is just how they do it in the Netherlands, it’s not hard it’s just getting in the habit.

Giving way to pedestrians is just good manners, you are sitting in a nice warm car and they are walking in the rain!! Accidents will occur when you give way and the person behind doesn’t anticipate it and drives into the back of you, especially on left turns.

To help save lives,I thought they might have made the wearing of helmets,a bell/horn on the bike and nightlights when dusk arrives a legal requirement by now.

conyoviejo wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:55 pm

Thought they might have made the wearing of helmets,a bell/horn on the bike and nightlights when dusk arrives a legal requirement.

They could have done but what would be the point? Just more road traffic legislation that will rarely be enforced.

Jamesy wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:45 pm

It’s crazy isn’t it? These LED light sets than run for ages on a couple of batteries can be purchased for as little as a tenner. Surely someone’s life is worth a tenner?

The LED lights are excellent and show well (the flashing ones) in the daytime too ... should be compulsory as should the wearing of Helmets etc should be ...

Burnley Ace wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:46 pm

The opening door is just how they do it in the Netherlands, it’s not hard it’s just getting in the habit.

Giving way to pedestrians is just good manners, you are sitting in a nice warm car and they are walking in the rain!! Accidents will occur when you give way and the person behind doesn’t anticipate it and drives into the back of you, especially on left turns.

Might be good practice, but it’s impossible in my car. You physically cannot get to the handle when in the drivers seat.

Typically I cannot find the article about opening car doors.

This article says £1000 fine but no points. If you injure someone you can be fined, but how could that be proven in court.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/highway- ... e-26035843

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:30 pm

This article says £1000 fine but no points. If you injure someone you can be fined, but how could that be proven in court.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/highway- ... e-26035843

This isn't new. I hope people don't get the impression that they have the right to open their door and send a cyclist flying for a few more days before it becomes illegal next week. That isn't true.

What this is saying is that if you cause injury to someone by opening your door without looking you can be fined £1,000. That's true now and will still be true after the new Highway Code comes into force. The new Highway Code is giving a new recommendation that you do it, where possible, with your "wrong" hand because it might force you to look behind. But the penalty is for not looking, not for which hand you might be using.

dsr wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:35 pm

This isn't new. I hope people don't get the impression that they have the right to open their door and send a cyclist flying for a few more days before it becomes illegal next week. That isn't true.

What this is saying is that if you cause injury to someone by opening your door without looking you can be fined £1,000. That's true now and will still be true after the new Highway Code comes into force. The new Highway Code is giving a new recommendation that you do it, where possible, with your "wrong" hand because it might force you to look behind. But the penalty is for not looking, not for which hand you might be using.

It’s probably about selling papers, but that’s not the impression you get.

I have been driving 40 years and luckily I haven’t opened my door on anyone yet. Once dementia kicks in it might happen.
I do think as an ex motorcyclist you do pay more attention than other people.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:30 pm

This article says £1000 fine but no points. If you injure someone you can be fined, but how could that be proven in court.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/highway- ... e-26035843

That's just a rubbish article that's more concerned by the clicks than the facts.

If you hit them with your door there's a pretty good chance you didn't look and how they'll prove it. How you open the door is a recommendation, not hitting someone, causing them to swerve, etc is the important part.

It's really an area that needs sorting properly. A few people are killed each year due to being doored but they haven't really worked out an offence. Some people are fined in magistrates courts, some end up in court charged with manslaughter.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:44 pm

It’s probably about selling papers, but that’s not the impression you get.

I have been driving 40 years and luckily I haven’t opened my door on anyone yet. Once dementia kicks in it might happen.
I do think as an ex motorcyclist you do pay more attention than other people.

For most people, the risk of having your door ripped off by a passing truck is enough reason to check what's behind.

aggi wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:50 pm

That's just a rubbish article that's more concerned by the clicks than the facts.

If you hit them with your door there's a pretty good chance you didn't look and how they'll prove it. How you open the door is a recommendation, not hitting someone, causing them to swerve, etc is the important part.

It's really an area that needs sorting properly. A few people are killed each year due to being doored but they haven't really worked out an offence. Some people are fined in magistrates courts, some end up in court charged with manslaughter.

My cousin's husband crashed into a door being opened. He was laid up for a while and can consider himself lucky it wasn't worse.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:38 pm

Just saying that to the Mrs the other day ... we were driving back from Skipton in the dusk and a Cyclist was doing just that ... no lights and earphones in ... bloody maniac

Hey Boss we were driving home from Skipton at dusk on Saturday. The A59 is actually a nice drive at that time of day. But then I do love dusk.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:30 pm

This article says £1000 fine but no points. If you injure someone you can be fined, but how could that be proven in court.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/highway- ... e-26035843

Surely, if someone falls off their bike when you've hit them when you opened your car door that will be the proof - or maybe caused them to swerve to avoid your car door and get hit by on-coming traffic.

Way back in the 70s I had a friend would opened a car door and knocked a cyclist off their bike. I think he was taken to court...

Are you asking how would it be proved that you didn't use your left hand? I guess the difficult question for the driver to answer would be why they didn't see the cyclist when, if they used their left hand, as required by HWC, they'd have also turned their body so that they could see if anyone was approaching their vehicle before they opened the door. I guess a glance in the wing mirror won't be enough under the new rules.

As I understand it, the updated HWC has classed road users by vulnerability. Pedestrians are the most vulnerable, so all other road users are responsible for looking after pedestrians. Cyclists and horse riders are the next most vulnerable. Motor vehicles are responsible for the safety of cyclists, horse riders and pedestrians. Large vehicles, including coaches, buses and HGVs are responsible for the safety of all other road users, because if a large vehicle gets things wrong there can be very serious consequences for other road users, especially the most vulnerable.

I'm sure that's exactly how we all should be driving already. Laying it out like that makes sense for anyone who needs to know.

As a driver for 20 years and a new cyclist, I don’t have an issue with any of the new rules, they all make sense. They are the sort of stuff good drivers / cyclists would do any way.

The giveway before turning is a bit ropey though, I’m quite courteous to pedestrians and tend to give them the signal to cross, but if the pavement is busy I can see some frustrated drivers…

Old men who can't drive ranting about rules they don't follow and never will anyway...

As a cyclist for many years I welcome the changes but doubt they will be followed. I think the 1.5 metre rule when passing a ‘vulnerable road user’ (cyclist, horse rider, etc..) but can report very many close shaves and near misses due to poor and impatient driving. The natural reaction is to shout out but this often provokes aggressive, threatening behaviour from the driver that is ‘usually’ tempered when I inform them that they are being filmed.

But yes, overall, the trend for the HC should always be to protect the most vulnerable road user and it is good that this is being improved. Time will tell if this makes cycling safer though.

Going to create bloody chaos and so many accidents, they will be forced to alter it back pretty sharply. I drive, and NO-ONE notices that I might also be on the same road, while wrapped in tonne of metal… God knows how many road cleaners the councils are going to need.

It seems the general government policy at the moment, to kill off as many of the population as possible, whenever possible and as quickly as possible

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:45 pm

Surely, if someone falls off their bike when you've hit them when you opened your car door that will be the proof - or maybe caused them to swerve to avoid your car door and get hit by on-coming traffic.

Way back in the 70s I had a friend would opened a car door and knocked a cyclist off their bike. I think he was taken to court...

Are you asking how would it be proved that you didn't use your left hand? I guess the difficult question for the driver to answer would be why they didn't see the cyclist when, if they used their left hand, as required by HWC, they'd have also turned their body so that they could see if anyone was approaching their vehicle before they opened the door. I guess a glance in the wing mirror won't be enough under the new rules.

On reflection, the new rules/guidelines should allow cyclists to leave enough room from parked cars so a door opening misses them. One of the first things I was taught on my advanced motorcycle training was to leave enough room so a door opening was not an issue.

What does need attention is cycle lanes, very often when there is one and I will say the one going into Padiham is a prime example. Cyclists don’t use it at all and ride in the road that’s now a lot narrower than it used to be. I asked a mate who is a keen cyclist and he told me the problem is that there are islands every 20 yards or so and that means the road sweeper does not clear the cycle Lane. He said you just get lots of punctures due to crap that builds up, so they don’t use them.

Once parking on pavements is banned ( needs a government regulation), where are all of the cars on residential streets going to be parked? I understand not causing an obstruction and the needs of the partially sighted, but this has not been thought through. Most people use their common sense and what happens now works for most people.

How will this square with only electric cars or has someone invented 5g electric?

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:13 pm

On reflection, the new rules/guidelines should allow cyclists to leave enough room from parked cars so a door opening misses them. One of the first things I was taught on my advanced motorcycle training was to leave enough room so a door opening was not an issue.

What does need attention is cycle lanes, very often when there is one and I will say the one going into Padiham is a prime example. Cyclists don’t use it at all and ride in the road that’s now a lot narrower than it used to be. I asked a mate who is a keen cyclist and he told me the problem is that there are islands every 20 yards or so and that means the road sweeper does not clear the cycle Lane. He said you just get lots of punctures due to crap that builds up, so they don’t use them.

Near where I live the council got a grant to put in cycle lanes. Several cycle lanes are "stop-start," short stretches, maybe 10 or 20 metres, then they end and re-start again further along the road. In another area the cycle lane has been created on the outer edge of a wide pavement - and runs straight through the trees planted on the edge of the pavement and in one case the tree trunk is dead centre of the cycle lane. It's not very surprising that the cyclists don't use these impossible to use "cycle lanes."

Well, I guess they put them in when everyone was working from home.

Have they updated the braking distances from the 1950s when it took a Hillman Minx 276 yards to come to a standstill ?

In our town Reading we are plagued with Deliveroo cyclists and just Pig ignorant ones riding at full belt through the no cycling predestination zone ,riding on pavements and riding up one way streets the wrong way
The Police are as scarce as rocking horse droppings and sooner or later a serious accident will occur.
Are these practices not banned now and if so who is going to police them?

Appears some people have never needed to look at the highway code

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-60159649

Paul Waine wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:39 pm

Near where I live the council got a grant to put in cycle lanes. Several cycle lanes are "stop-start," short stretches, maybe 10 or 20 metres, then they end and re-start again further along the road. In another area the cycle lane has been created on the outer edge of a wide pavement - and runs straight through the trees planted on the edge of the pavement and in one case the tree trunk is dead centre of the cycle lane. It's not very surprising that the cyclists don't use these impossible to use "cycle lanes."

Well, I guess they put them in when everyone was working from home.

And from tomorrow they can ignore the millions spent on cycle lanes and ride in the middle of the road and have right of way. By being the priory vehicle.
Madness I say , madness.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:00 am

And from tomorrow they can ignore the millions spent on cycle lanes and ride in the middle of the road and have right of way. By being the priory vehicle.
Madness I say , madness.

Exactly the same as they could do previously. They have no more rights than they previously did but a lot of car drivers for some reason couldn't understand why cyclists might be in the middle of the road so it's being reinforced again.

Most cycle infrastructure is a waste of money. It's put in to tick a box but as there is generally no willingness to inconvenience car drivers it's put in badly and so no-one uses it.

aggi wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:08 am

Exactly the same as they could do previously. They have no more rights than they previously did but a lot of car drivers for some reason couldn't understand why cyclists might be in the middle of the road so it's being reinforced again.

Most cycle infrastructure is a waste of money. It's put in to tick a box but as there is generally no willingness to inconvenience car drivers it's put in badly and so no-one uses it.

This

I'm very lucky that Lancaster and Morecambe have a really good cycling network is you can get anywhere without really having to go on the busy roads

But that is not the norm sadly

But imagine how good it would be if we actually did this kind of thing properly

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the- ... nuary-2022

Gov guidance

For people advocating spending money on cycle lanes can we do that after sorting the pothole problem out.

Absolutely, potholes in roads are a damn sight more dangerous to cyclists than cars.

Time to give up driving and surrender your license for anybody who can't shift in their seat a bit to open a car door with the opposing hand.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:34 am

Time to give up driving and surrender your license for anybody who can't shift in their seat a bit to open a car door with the opposing hand.

That will take at least ten million cars off the road!

Rowls wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:34 am

Time to give up driving and surrender your license for anybody who can't shift in their seat a bit to open a car door with the opposing hand.

In a car I will, but it’s physically impossible in mine.

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:32 am

Absolutely, potholes in roads are a damn sight more dangerous to cyclists than cars.

Even a casual look at the number of deaths or serious injuries that could not be further from the truth.

Without looking it up I wonder if many car drivers know the stopping distance at 30mph- 50mph and 70mph it’s stuck with me since my driving test in the 70s the only problem is that I only know it in yards.

I went out for a 60 mile ride yesterday. In my experience all these new changes have done is make car drivers more aggressive to cyclist, even if they are following the old rules.


In terms of cycling in the centre of the road, I only do this whilst cornering. The two reasons are I don’t want to be overtaken on a corner and I have to take the corner at the correct angle to avoid falling off at 20mph. You cannot take a tight corner on the bike hugging the outside of the road, you have to start wide and cut in to avoid sliding off

CombatClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:05 pm

Even a casual look at the number of deaths or serious injuries that could not be further from the truth.

It’s difficult to ascertain causes, over a period of time the damage that’s caused can gradually result in accidents or swerving out of the way & then hitting something, potholes aren’t to blame for everything but before we think of more cycle lanes we need to be looking at more sustainable surfaces more permanent fixes than sticking plasters.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:03 pm

In a car I will, but it’s physically impossible in mine.

This seems to be a major design flaw.

How do you manage to reverse, for example?

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:00 am

And from tomorrow they can ignore the millions spent on cycle lanes and ride in the middle of the road and have right of way. By being the priory vehicle.
Madness I say , madness.

Cycle lanes are great when they are done right. I lived in Netherlands for a time, they do cycle lanes right over there. In my experience, we don't design cycle lanes correctly in the UK, though I'm sure there will be some good examples of proper design. Just one of the issues why cyclists don't use (some) cycle lanes is that many of the cycle lanes are not safe for the cyclists to use. The changes to the HWC are good and necessary. A hierarchy of "vulnerability" is a sensible way of laying out the requirement of all road users taking responsibility not only for their own safety but focusing on the safety of other road users who are more vulnerable.