Positivity Vs. Pessimism & Negativity

[Rowls]

There's such a thing as "realism" when it comes to estimating our chances of success in life.

And yet when nothing is ventured, nothing is gained.

If there were a magic method of differentiating between negativity and realism we'd all be better judges.

But there's something else to consider too - positivity brings positive outcomes. If you imagine you're beaten from the outset, then you are.

Sean Dyche apparently tackled this as a culture as a priority during his first half season in charge:

https://punditarena.com/football/darrag ... ous-group/

We all know what happened next.

On what appears to be a massive tangent, have you ever taken one of those "How long will I live?" quizzes? They ask a number of health questions about diet, lifestyle, smoker, drinker etc to give you an estimate. The kind of questions you'd expect. But one question they often ask has a massive impact on your life expectancy: "Are you a positive person?" / "Do you have a positive outlook on life?"

Positive people -the people who prefer to see the glass half full- tend to live substantially longer than their pessimisitc peers. Even when other health factors are taken into account.

Positivity is a superpower. I implore you to utilise it in your life.

[Andreshotboots]

I think we can stay up this year, it will be a hell of a task but not impossible.

I think pyscology will play a massive part now, teams above us will probably be saying "Burnley are gone" and concentrating on 2 other teams to finish above, similar to what everybody did with Norwich a few weeks ago..

We sneak a couple of wins in the near future and teams will start getting the old squeaky bum knowing we've fought off relagation before, put runs together, and we could do it again. A lot of these teams near the bottom haven't got the battle scars we have, just need to give ourselves a chance...there'e usually somebody who goes on a shocking run near the bottom end, and somebody who goes on a decent one...the latter could be us!!!

[Silkyskills1]

A lot of hypotheses going on here. If it was as straightforward as that then presumably life expectancy ages would have 'rocketed'. I accept there are many factors to take into consideration in any competitive game but ultimately the best player or the team with the best players will win. That used to be a reason why the FA Cup was intriguing, welcomed and sometimes thrilling; because each fixture was a 'one-off', a 'free hit' as is often referred to on here. Unfortunately, I think we still have half of our league games to play, that is far too many games to try and adopt a siege mentality and too many games to hope we 'get lucky'.

[Claretforever]

I’ve said this before and I’ll keep saying it, in football the will of the mind, especially when aligned with others, tends to play out.

In September 2013 I posted on the other message board that we would be promoted. It just felt like a promotion season. Why?

The players started well, and they all looked to be getting on well and fighting for each other. The football was exciting. The main thing though, the positivity within the ground was palpable. We were all aligned.

Compare that with 2009-10 season when Coyle jumped ship. The atmosphere was poisonous, the players were infighting, nobody believed we could stay up…and we were easily relegated despite the start.

2018-19 was a season of two halves as well. After Newcastle it felt bad, but the result v Everton (1-5) had everyone agreeing we were going down. We introduced McNeil and brought Heaton back. The crowd lifted, got behind the team and performances improved massively. The positive vibes were back and we all aligned.

Positive mental attitude.

[ClaretPete001]

On what appears to be a massive tangent, have you ever taken one of those "How long will I live?" quizzes? They ask a number of health questions about diet, lifestyle, smoker, drinker etc to give you an estimate. The kind of questions you'd expect. But one question they often ask has a massive impact on your life expectancy: "Are you a positive person?" / "Do you have a positive outlook on life?"

Positive people -the people who prefer to see the glass half full- tend to live substantially longer than their pessimistic peers. Even when other health factors are taken into account.

Positivity is a superpower. I implore you to utilise it in your life.

A gene pool has to have a variety of personality traits to be successful. The positive types who assumed the ice age would be over in 6 months didn't change the nature of the ice age they were just a bit surprised when they froze to death.

[Rowls]

A lot of hypotheses going on here. If it was as straightforward as that then presumably life expectancy ages would have 'rocketed'. I accept there are many factors to take into consideration in any competitive game but ultimately the best player or the team with the best players will win. That used to be a reason why the FA Cup was intriguing, welcomed and sometimes thrilling; because each fixture was a 'one-off', a 'free hit' as is often referred to on here. Unfortunately, I think we still have half of our league games to play, that is far too many games to try and adopt a siege mentality and too many games to hope we 'get lucky'.

Well, no, as human nature is as it is.

These things can be learned and replicated (ie. you can learn to adopt a positive attitude) but many people simply aren't,

These things are highly cultural and infectious too. The internet has heightened these factors.

[Rowls]

BTW: I'd like to make an important distinction between "hoping for the best" and being positive.

A number of my less positive friends have accused me (and my positive outlook) of "hoping for the best" and pointing out this will not help.

This is wrong because it is a basic misunderstanding of what positivite thinking is. It is about identifying and understanding what factors you are in control of and taking positive steps to turn the odds in your favour. It is not merely a state of mind; it is taking positive actions too. People who don't take a positive frame of mind often miss opportunities and fail to take positive steps because they aren't looking out sufficiently for potential positive outcomes.

At very least, it entails not worrying about factors which are outside of your control - if you have no control over an event then worrying about it will only add an additional stress onto the situation. Think about it - If you don't waste time worrying about things outside of your control you can perform positive actions, to mitigate the perhaps unavoidable negative outcome.

The are literally no positives in being negative.

Nothing good will of nothing good.

These are simply aphorisms. They're practical and if you take them on board and back them up with positive actions you can very literally transform your life.

[Vegas Claret]

I mentioned this on another thread, sporting miracles aren't that rare. We can stay up

[Rowls]

How might this apply to Burnley FC and our current predicament.

Well, PLENTY of people are being negative on this site. So let's have a quick Q&A to work out the positives of being positive:

Q. What will negavitivity achieve?
A. Nothing.

Q. What effect will negativity have?
A. It will dispirit people. It will leave people feeling hopeless and in bad moods. It will lead to negative mindsets. Mindsets are self-sustaining - if you're happy now you're more likely to be happy tomorrow but if you've got yourself into a tizzy online you're likely to wake up in a tizzy tomorrow.

Q. So what? It's my life - I don't see how it will change anything?
A. Have you seen the home crowd getting onto their own team? Mentality is infectious. If it is widespread enough it could affect the performance of the players.

Q. What are the alternatives?
A. Being positive!

Q. What in the name of Bob Lord will that achieve, you belmtard?
A. For starters, you'll immediately stop wasting time worrying about things you can't control - things like our transfer dealings.

Q. That's no good if we still get relegated though, is it?
A. Well, admittedly, there isn't *much* we can do from the stands. But that's not to say we don't have a part to play in proceedings. If you take the point of view that we've been incredibly lucky to have such a period of success and the only thing we can do is cheer the boys on, then you can resolve to turn up every week and cheer the players on. It's not much but we all know that a good atmosphere really does help them perform. If we turn up and back the lads, it might just help us snatch a vital point.

Let's get this straight: Being positive isn't a magical fix for your problems, but it is an excellent first step and it can transform your life. The only thing you have to lose is negativity. Who in their right mind wouldn't want to get rid of negativity?

[Rowls]

Just another thing: Being positive does not mean you cannot critique things or pick fault with things that are crap. It just means not whingeing without offering a solution.

[Silkyskills1]

Read Eckhart Tolle's book about 'The Now' a couple of months ago whilst on a short holiday. Very peaceful, calm and relaxed environment created just the right mindset to take on the main parts of his book and genuinely feel a difference. However, the situation changes almost immediately once outside that environment and as much as one might try to ward off the negativity associated with the 'real world' for any length of time it becomes literally impossible. Eckhart talks about 'the now' being as good as it gets and not allowing anything beforehand or the future to affect it. I've tried and still do but with little success unfortunately.

[Rowls]

Well, there are a number of things that pull us towards negativity.

Claretpete001 pointed out the evolution certainly isn't ridding us of negative thinking. If it were such a successful mindset, why isn't evolution doing away with it?

Well, fearing the worst is a very necessary survival instinct. Fear is the biggest driver of human behaviour. If you're not scared of the woolly mammoth running at your or the sabre toothed tiger in the bushes, you won't live long enough to pass on your genes.

It's why bad news stories always make the headlines. Clickbait writers and news sites know this. It's why even respectable sites like the BBC lead with negative news stories.

There was recently two news stories:

Chicken prices went up because of supply problems:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58895250

Almost simulataneously there was an oversupply of pigs into the pork market meaning slaughter houses couldn't keep up with the demand:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58749841

The story about healthy pigs being put down was awful. Genuinely dreadful. But there was a slither of a silver lining in that pork prices plumetted. My freezer is still full of belly pork bought during the slump when supermarkets had great offers on. But was that mentioned? No, because it doesn't get the clicks.

Having a positive mindset doesn't mean not seeing things that are wrong or ignoring things that need changing. It simply means reacting in a positive manner to challenging situations.

We're all still drawn towards the negative, scary thing. It's how we react to it that matters.

[ClaretPete001]

Having a positive mindset doesn't mean not seeing things that are wrong or ignoring things that need changing. It simply means reacting in a positive manner to challenging situations.

We're all still drawn towards the negative, scary thing. It's how we react to it that matters.

Agree totally but you have to work on it on a daily basis - that's the hard bit.

[Rowls]

Agree totally but you have to work on it on a daily basis - that's the hard bit.

Completely true, for most people at least.

I'm not some kind of guru. Maybe some people are just "naturally positive"? I get bogged down in negative thought patterns and childish sulks etc.

But as adults we ought to hold ourselves to account and always endeavour to improve ourselves and our habits. We're all the captain of our soul.

[Guitargeorge]

Think West Brom 2005, not Derby County 2008. Things happen when you think positive

[ClaretPete001]

Completely true, for most people at least.

I'm not some kind of guru. Maybe some people are just "naturally positive"? I get bogged down in negative thought patterns and childish sulks etc.

But as adults we ought to hold ourselves to account and always endeavour to improve ourselves and our habits. We're all the captain of our soul.

Indeed. If there is one thing I would like to teach my kids it's exactly what you say above but it takes a lifetime of reflection to understand that creating positive daily habits makes a difference to how you feel about the world.

It's not an easy journey and not even that easy when you finally get there.

[Silkyskills1]

Agree totally but you have to work on it on a daily basis - that's the hard bit.

I think Tolle would say that 'working at it' isn't what is needed. It's the ability to understand 'the now'. embrace it and engage in it. Being detached from it just doesn't offer anything.

[boatshed bill]

I think I am realistic (most of the time)
I sort of take things as they are.
The only times I am positive is when I believe I can influence the outcome. But isn't that just realism?

[tiger76]

Think West Brom 2005, not Derby County 2008. Things happen when you think positive

Leicester in 2015 also, they were dead and buried with only a handful of games remaining, yet they embarked on a barnstorming run to haul themselves clear.

Beat Watford and the table will look very different, and we'll be in with a chance of pulling a few others into the mix.

Will we stay up I have no idea, can we stay up absolutely, but it'll require everyone to pull together for the cause.

Arsenal offered hope that we're up for the fight, and that's half the battle in my view.

[Vegas Claret]

at some point clubs like Burnley will drop out of the Premier League, our best hope is to become a yo-yo club.
If you look at the Premier League we currently have supporters of:
Man City
Man Utd
Liverpool
Chelsea
Arsenal
Spurs
Leeds
Everton
Newcastle
West Ham
Villa
Wolves
Leicester

all believing they should be in the top 6 and in Europe. The last time I checked 13 doesn't go into 6 and many of them are spending money chasing the dream of a Thursday night away trip to Slovenia to watch a reserve team play in a competition the managers aren't bothered about. It's a giant mouse wheel that at some point will come crashing down.

We've over achieved to an extent I never thought I would see in my life time, it doesn't mean I'm not disappointed about the transfer window, but it does mean I wont wet my kecks if we get relegated.

[Ric_C]

This league has become too rich for us. When you've got mediocre clubs like Newcastle and Villa being backed by finances similar to that of a small country, you know the writing is on the wall. I'm all for staying in this league, but if we can improve our scouting network and continue with our improvements to the training ground and our youth system, then the championship wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Rowls]

This league was "too big for us" when we arrived. Nothing's changed in that respect.

[alf_resco]

Most of this thread is a bowdlerised version of Henry Ford's "Whether you think you can or whether you think can't, you're probably right."
It's sometimes correct on a personal basis but however positive ( or not) I happen to be about BFC's survival chances, it won't make one iota difference to the outcome.

[Rowls]

Most of this thread is a bowdlerised version of Henry Ford's "Whether you think you can or whether you think can't, you're probably right."
It's sometimes correct on a personal basis but however positive ( or not) I happen to be about BFC's survival chances, it won't make one iota difference to the outcome.

The point about what we think not making much difference was covered and addressed, which make me suspeect you've maybe not read the thread thoroughly.

[AndrewJB]

Well, there are a number of things that pull us towards negativity.

Claretpete001 pointed out the evolution certainly isn't ridding us of negative thinking. If it were such a successful mindset, why isn't evolution doing away with it?

Well, fearing the worst is a very necessary survival instinct. Fear is the biggest driver of human behaviour. If you're not scared of the woolly mammoth running at your or the sabre toothed tiger in the bushes, you won't live long enough to pass on your genes.

It's why bad news stories always make the headlines. Clickbait writers and news sites know this. It's why even respectable sites like the BBC lead with negative news stories.

There was recently two news stories:

Chicken prices went up because of supply problems:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58895250

Almost simulataneously there was an oversupply of pigs into the pork market meaning slaughter houses couldn't keep up with the demand:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58749841

The story about healthy pigs being put down was awful. Genuinely dreadful. But there was a slither of a silver lining in that pork prices plumetted. My freezer is still full of belly pork bought during the slump when supermarkets had great offers on. But was that mentioned? No, because it doesn't get the clicks.

Having a positive mindset doesn't mean not seeing things that are wrong or ignoring things that need changing. It simply means reacting in a positive manner to challenging situations.

We're all still drawn towards the negative, scary thing. It's how we react to it that matters.

Millions of years of human evolution have put existential threats at the heart of our bodies reaction to stress. Modern stress - a deadline, being over-worked in an office environment, and so on. None of that is helped by a rush of adrenalin. Likewise how our brains are wired - very unhelpful when it comes to addictive behaviours.

I think what Dyche might have taught the players is a kind of mindfulness. To understand how their bodies and minds work, and how to alleviate certain things (that might be called “natural instincts”). Our excellent disciplinary record suggests this. Positive thinking starts with the understanding that although there are parts of your brain that inform (or trick) you with demands, and suggestions; ultimately it’s your frontal cortex that executes decisions, and (I think) everyone has control of that. So it is possible to consciously push away negative thoughts when they appear in your mind (due to other parts of your brain putting them there). It’s not an easy thing because you have to be conscious (or mindful) of it all the time, but it works.

And not disagreeing with anything you’ve said, but adding my thoughts.

[alf_resco]

You're correct.
It is a tedious thread tbf.

[AndrewJB]

You're correct.
It is a tedious thread tbf.

The subject is quite a lot deeper than your quote.

[Papabendi]

Looks like Rowls got a yoga camp in Goa for Xmas.

[Rowls]

You're correct.
It is a tedious thread tbf.

You're bored by a thread that you admit you haven't read?

My advice is to only click on the threads you're interested in. All the best alf.

[Rowls]

Millions of years of human evolution have put existential threats at the heart of our bodies reaction to stress. Modern stress - a deadline, being over-worked in an office environment, and so on. None of that is helped by a rush of adrenalin. Likewise how our brains are wired - very unhelpful when it comes to addictive behaviours.

I think what Dyche might have taught the players is a kind of mindfulness. To understand how their bodies and minds work, and how to alleviate certain things (that might be called “natural instincts”). Our excellent disciplinary record suggests this. Positive thinking starts with the understanding that although there are parts of your brain that inform (or trick) you with demands, and suggestions; ultimately it’s your frontal cortex that executes decisions, and (I think) everyone has control of that. So it is possible to consciously push away negative thoughts when they appear in your mind (due to other parts of your brain putting them there). It’s not an easy thing because you have to be conscious (or mindful) of it all the time, but it works.

And not disagreeing with anything you’ve said, but adding my thoughts.

Interesting what you say Andrew.

When it comes to addiction, the problem strikes me to be the refined techniques employed by big companies. The drinks industry know what they're doing, the pharmacuticals know what they're doing, the big bookies know what they're doing and now -perhaps most insidiously because they are so pervasive- the big social media companies know what they're doing. The science of addiction (ie. how to deliberately cause it) is well studied now and they're very good at manipulating us. I understand what you mean with our brains being hardwired for a reward based system but of course there are so many factors at play.

They give it euphemisms like "stickiness" because if they spoke frankly about how they're building their latest alogrithm to be addictive there would be uproar.

[Rowls]

Looks like Rowls got a yoga camp in Goa for Xmas.

This is just my outlook on life. This is me.

Obviously not all the time. I sulk, I whinge (on the odd occasion), I throw my toys about etc.

And Goa (with respect to the native population) strikes me as hell on earth. I already went to a half decent uni so I have no desire to spend more time with spoilt middle class kids.

[bennitor]

I've found it an interesting thread so far so thank you.

I do wonder if it's harder to be positive in current society than ever before?

We have a corrupt government. We have a cost of living crisis. We've had Brexit. We've had Covid. We've got news coverage that drip feeds us horror and trauma every single day.

None of that gives me cause to be positive. I might look forward to a nice tea and having fun with my kids - so positivity isn't lost. But the bigger picture makes it harder than ever IMO.

[Papabendi]

This is just my outlook on life. This is me.

Obviously not all the time. I sulk, I whinge (on the odd occasion), I throw my toys about etc.

And Goa (with respect to the native population) strikes me as hell on earth. I already went to a half decent uni so I have no desire to spend more time with spoilt middle class kids.

All in jest. Easy to be positive at least some of the time or if life is going OK. It’s when things are not we are suddenly tested and churning out words like outlook mean nothing to most.

[Rowls]

I've found it an interesting thread so far so thank you.

I do wonder if it's harder to be positive in current society than ever before?

We have a corrupt government. We have a cost of living crisis. We've had Brexit. We've had Covid. We've got news coverage that drip feeds us horror and trauma every single day.

None of that gives me cause to be positive. I might look forward to a nice tea and having fun with my kids - so positivity isn't lost. But the bigger picture makes it harder than ever IMO.

Good question bennitor.

Take mental health problems. They're through the roof really.

Any yet, we've "never had it so good". We've never had such good healthcare, long lives, such gluttonous freedom of choice. It's a cliche but only 15-20 years ago the avocado was exotic. Now the an everyday foodstuff.

We've never had so many luxuries or worldly possessions.

We (I'm talking specifically in the UK but it broadly applies across the whole planet) are far less likely to have to fight in wars than previous generations.

Has all this made our lives easier? Undoubtedly so.

But are we any more fulfilled or happier than the generations that preceeded us? That's not really very clear cut.

One thing I've made a conscious effort to do on a daily basis for a few years is to take a moment each day to be grateful for something. It can be anything (my Ikea desk, my Mum doing me a favour, my nieces and nephews drawing me a picture) and I find it helps to put the humdrum problems and stresses of life into perspective.

Anyway, goodnight all - I'm off to sleep in a comfy, cheap, affordable but good quality bed in a centrally heated bedroom and be grateful for it.

[bodge]

Why don't you post when things are positive then ?

I just see stuff on McNeil, maybe you have a negative outlook i don't know.

[bennitor]

Good question bennitor.

Take mental health problems. They're through the roof really.

Any yet, we've "never had it so good". We've never had such good healthcare, long lives, such gluttonous freedom of choice. It's a cliche but only 15-20 years ago the avocado was exotic. Now the an everyday foodstuff.

We've never had so many luxuries or worldly possessions.

We (I'm talking specifically in the UK but it broadly applies across the whole planet) are far less likely to have to fight in wars than previous generations.

Has all this made our lives easier? Undoubtedly so.

But are we any more fulfilled or happier than the generations that preceeded us? That's not really very clear cut.

One thing I've made a conscious effort to do on a daily basis for a few years is to take a moment each day to be grateful for something. It can be anything (my Ikea desk, my Mum doing me a favour, my nieces and nephews drawing me a picture) and I find it helps to put the humdrum problems and stresses of life into perspective.

Anyway, goodnight all - I'm off to sleep in a comfy, cheap, affordable but good quality bed in a centrally heated bedroom and be grateful for it.

Or you slice it as the NHS is on its knees and careering towards stealth privatisation, oh no more years to put up with this sh*t and what a consumerist, wasteful society we now live in

I get the point about trying to be positive for the small things but that does sometimes feel like trying to plug a colander full of water with just your fingers.

But positive or negative, you're clearly insane if you have the central heating on whilst you sleep

[Quicknick]

I am always positive.

[matucana]

There you go man
Keep as cool as you can
Face piles of trials with smiles
It riles them to believe
That you perceive the web they weave
And keep on thinking free

Graeme Edge

Positive

[The Enclosure]

Its official,we will be ok.

[tiger76]

35 points could well prove enough, 6 wins 5 draws no problem, what's all the panic about.

[NewClaret]

I've found it an interesting thread so far so thank you.

I do wonder if it's harder to be positive in current society than ever before?

We have a corrupt government. We have a cost of living crisis. We've had Brexit. We've had Covid. We've got news coverage that drip feeds us horror and trauma every single day.

None of that gives me cause to be positive. I might look forward to a nice tea and having fun with my kids - so positivity isn't lost. But the bigger picture makes it harder than ever IMO.

This is an good post. I voted for this Government and whilst I think they’ve done some things well, I’d be first to admit they’ve been awful in other respects.

But my point is more about the media and the role they play in sensationalising EVERYTHING (like a DM headline, that!).

There appears to be some rancid things going on at the heart of our current government, but I’m not so sure that it’s ever been much different. Most end up stained and shrouded in controversy in some form or other. That’s because the media dig and dig till they find something, then run with it like a dog with a bone.

I’m certain our Government are not perfect, and this lot seem worse than others on the face of things, but I couldn’t be certain they actually are - just that the media have found out more (probably because of Cummings). And If you knew everything about every government in the world you’d think ours were saints by comparison.

I stopped watching the news during Covid because I was sick of the sensationalist reporting and I could tell that isolation + the consumption of sensationalist news reporting was impacting my mental health. Even ITV & Tom Bradbury, who I find to be the most balanced of the lot. I also stopped reading papers and tend now to only find out about things from this board. For that reason, I’m really glad politics and Covid are banned topics so you can escape them.

Likewise I’m not on any social media other than an Instagram account I hardly ever use. I read #twitterclarets sometimes (transfer windows) and find it hilarious, but also very worrying and sad, how people just seem to post stuff on there with no replies. They’re literally talking to themselves, which equally can’t be healthy for their minds. It’s sad and quite worrying really.

Anyway, the point of this post is that if you’re genuinely finding it hard to feel positive about anything else in life than a meal/playing with your kids I’d massively recommended coming off social media and avoiding mainstream media. Almost everything you consume on has an agenda/bias anyway, and knowing less about what’s going on in the world allows you more time to focus on what’s important - the people and what’s going on in your world.

[BleedingClaret]

12 games at Home - 8 games away