Rising power prices: a thread for help

[Lancasterclaret]

Didn’t watch and not going to discuss as I don’t want the thread to be pulled. Buts it’s not looking good.

Its a discussion on rising energy costs

This is (sadly) going to have a huge effect

[Lowbankclaret]

Its a discussion on rising energy costs

This is (sadly) going to have a huge effect

Yes I agree 100%, moment it gets political it gets pulled so I am avoiding it.

[Stayingup]

Green levies could be cut tomorrow. 24% of electricty bills are this.

[Lancasterclaret]

Green levies could be cut tomorrow. 24% of electricty bills are this.

Short term gain for long term effects

Essentially the very predictable curse of every decision that is made at the moment sadly

[Stayingup]

We extract plenty. Just sell it to Belgium.
[/quote


Actually off topic this as this is a thread advising help. There is some very good cooment and advice.athough wearing thermal underwear and extra layers isnt mentioned!!!

But if we extract 'plenty' why are we buying LNG from Qatar transported in huge tankers emitting CO2? I have to say I am a layman compared to people on here but it seems just so idiotic to me that our energy policy is not to maximize our own resources and buy LNG in causing hardship to families. But then again its politicians and most certainly in this government and the preceeding one are not very good at their job.

[Stayingup]

Short term gain for long term effects

Essentially the very predictable curse of every decision that is made at the moment sadly

Yes but we have an immediate big issue with cost and this requires immediate action. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Stayingup]

Yes I agree 100%, moment it gets political it gets pulled so I am avoiding it.

Yes but who has caused this energy crisis?

[Stayingup]

A few reasons. Firstly, the overall plan is to be able to introduce dynamic charging. So when enough people have 'smart' meters the suppliers can go,

'Oh we've noticed you seem to use more electricity between 4pm and 10pm so we'll have to charge a premium for that. On the plus side, we've noticed you use hardly anything between midnight and 6am, so we will reduce the unit cost for those hours.'

The other issue I've got is a bit technical, but essentially they will be able to start charging for some of the generation and supply overheads that they can't do with normal dumb meters. The supply industry has had a bee in its bonnet forever about this as it costs them millions that they can't easily pass onto domestic consumers. Once they've got the ability to meter it, unit costs will rise again.

Are you a Tajik ? Haha

[Rowls]

This is absolute nonsense like most of the other comments on Smart Meters in this discussion. I work in the Utilities industry and have been involved with Smart infrastructure on and off for the last decade and when I see how confidently people talk about something they know nothing about and completely get things wrongs it just shows me why places like the UK and the US are such a mess.

If every property had a Smets2 meter fitted then the cost of everyone's bills would come down immediately as it would reduce such a large cost to serve element of the the Suppliers costs. I had a conference with some CEO's from Direct Energy (US) and they could not believe the effort and cost that is spent on the billing side of the UK markets because of metering and reading enquiries linked to standard meters.

With regards TOU tarrifs we have always had this in the basic form of Economy 7 and anyone who has used this will tell you it is used in a positive way to allow people who use their electricity at quiet times to save money and encourage them to use as much as they can within this time period. If we could get the network to bill electricity in 30 mins intervals then the efficienceys we can realise are massive and again its not about getting more money out of people but giving people the choice to manage their electricity so it works for them (and the nextwork)

Finally whether you like Smart meters or you dont by refusing Smart you are simply increasing the costs for everyone. Suppliers are mandated and have to spend millions on their contact strategy to ensure they take "All Reasonable Steps" to meet their Smart targets (or face massive fines). These costs (including the fines) are passed directly onto the customer so every time you say no it just means that they will have to keep on spending money contacting and campaigning to you all so you are just increasing the costs of your own bills and everyone else's

Anyway above is an accurate view of Smart meters and my advice is that if there is one positive thing you can do to help reduce your own and other peoples bills then its get a Smets 2 meter fitted where you can. I'll leave it at this as not going to argue with people who dont know what they are talking about and so the tin foil wearing know nothings can contnue to spout their rubbish and as ever convince themselves and others to act against their own interests

Sometimes, DA, it’s a real shame you went down the novelty poster route.

[Rowls]

1. Short term - cut your usage
2. Medium term - keep an eye out for better deals with alternative suppliers
3. Long term - vote for a political party with a long term plan for energy security at low prices

[Lowbankclaret]

Yes but who has caused this energy crisis?

Putin, and he just ordered the invasion of Ukraine. Sadly

[Stayingup]

Putin, and he just ordered the invasion of Ukraine. Sadly

OMG. Now lets see what happens with energy. Not good. Not good at all.

[Stayingup]

1. Short term - cut your usage
2. Medium term - keep an eye out for better deals with alternative suppliers
3. Long term - vote for a political party with a long term plan for energy security at low prices

Point 3. Who? Which party? They are all faithfull followers of that Swedish schoolgirl.

[Rowls]

Point 3. Who? Which party? They are all faithfull followers of that Swedish schoolgirl.

Quite.

[Lancasterclaret]

Point 3. Who? Which party? They are all faithfull followers of that Swedish schoolgirl.

We live on a windy, rainy island surrounded by some of the biggest tides in the world. Lets dig in the ground for our energy.

[Rowls]

We live on a windy, rainy island surrounded by some of the biggest tides in the world. Lets dig in the ground for our energy.

How about we diversify our energy policy and plan so that we can still do things like take showers and drink tea on calm summers days?

But if we’re going to ride the “zero carbon” train, let’s get a few nuclear power stations built, eh?

More than anything else, given it’s going to be a big issue with voters let’s have an honest debate about it and let the electorate decide.

[Stayingup]

We live on a windy, rainy island surrounded by some of the biggest tides in the world. Lets dig in the ground for our energy.

You make a good point about the tides. That would seem to.me to be a relatively untapped source. Regarding wind power. What happens when the wind doesnt blow?

[Lowbankclaret]

We live on a windy, rainy island surrounded by some of the biggest tides in the world. Lets dig in the ground for our energy.

Wind has been very productive this last week.

4D533397-16AC-43D2-81FE-729AFA7976A8.png (561.48 KiB) Viewed 1661 times

[Lowbankclaret]

If we increased it by 100% when it’s in exceeding what we need we can sell it abroad.

Being reliant on Russia has to be put out major one priority to cut ties with.

[Lowbankclaret]

How about we diversify our energy policy and plan so that we can still do things like take showers and drink tea on calm summers days?

But if we’re going to ride the “zero carbon” train, let’s get a few nuclear power stations built, eh?

More than anything else, given it’s going to be a big issue with voters let’s have an honest debate about it and let the electorate decide.

So you have a choice of low cost electric in wind and solar. With zero risk.
Or nuclear which very nearly made the north west of England inhabitable, wind scale accident. Then the 3 mile island, Chernobyl and Fukushima. Yes Fukushima where the Japan gov has just said they can dump millions of gallons of radioactive water into the sea. Does wind or solar ever pose that threat.

[Lowbankclaret]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-56728068

[Lancasterclaret]

How about we diversify our energy policy and plan so that we can still do things like take showers and drink tea on calm summers days?

But if we’re going to ride the “zero carbon” train, let’s get a few nuclear power stations built, eh?

More than anything else, given it’s going to be a big issue with voters let’s have an honest debate about it and let the electorate decide.

Nothing against Nuclear here Rowls

Oil, gas, fracking etc can do one though

[Rowls]

So you have a choice of low cost electric in wind and solar. With zero risk.
Or nuclear which very nearly made the north west of England inhabitable, wind scale accident. Then the 3 mile island, Chernobyl and Fukushima. Yes Fukushima where the Japan gov has just said they can dump millions of gallons of radioactive water into the sea. Does wind or solar ever pose that threat.

I think you’re vastly overplaying the risks of nuclear energy and underplaying the risks of renewables actually keeping the lights on.

Thought certainly, these are things to be considered. Let the electorate decide, I say.

And when we say “keeping the lights on”, although that’s a not a euphemism it’s worth pointing out that the stage before “keeping the lights on” becomes a genuine problem is the price of electricity becoming a real problem.

Which is right now.

[Lowbankclaret]

I think you’re vastly overplaying the risks of nuclear energy and underplaying the risks of renewables actually keeping the lights on.

Thought certainly, these are things to be considered. Let the electorate decide, I say.

And when we say “keeping the lights on”, although that’s a not a euphemism it’s worth pointing out that the stage before “keeping the lights on” becomes a genuine problem is the price of ell look electricity becoming a real problem.

Which is right now.

We’ll wind and solar can keep the lights on as it’s doing it right now. Nuclear is what 15%, solar in the day 10%. Wind up to 47% . Two are safe safe , one is not. 3 nuclear disasters have left massive amounts of land uninhabitable, we could not eat sheep from our land after Chernobyl for years and you say I am overplaying it. Wind and solar could never contaminate our land for years.

[Lancasterclaret]

We’ll wind and solar can keep the lights on as it’s doing it right now. Nuclear is what 15%, solar in the day 10%. Wind up to 47% . Two are safe safe , one is not. 3 nuclear disasters have left massive amounts of land uninhabitable, we could not eat sheep from our land after Chernobyl for years and you say I am overplaying it. Wind and solar could never contaminate our land for years.

My dad worked next to Heysham I and II for decades for the CEGB, and he's the most clued up man I know on our energy requirements

Nuclear for when its not windy or sunny, everything else renewable

Will cost a bit to get up and running, but doing nothing is relying on tools like Putin or the Chinese

[Lowbankclaret]

My dad worked next to Heysham I and II for decades for the CEGB, and he's the most clued up man I know on our energy requirements

Nuclear for when its not windy or sunny, everything else renewable

Will cost a bit to get up and running, but doing nothing is relying on tools like Putin or the Chinese

I know people who worked there too, but it was nearly the first first and biggest nuclear accident.

[Lancasterclaret]

I know people who worked there too, but it was nearly the first first and biggest nuclear accident.

And it wasn't as well

Anyway, the US has ordered all its embassy staff out of the Ukraine to Poland, so they are expecting Russia to come in and come in hard

Buckle up everyone, nowt more dangerous than a old man who has never been told "No" in his life

[HunterST_BFC]

Can't blame Putin for the Tories closing down our Gas storage infrastructure.

Or for allowing Shell to reap wealth from the North Sea and send that gas to Europe (while funding the Tory Party and the Hedgefund owners and their Shareholders...)

It is likely there is money being made by all interests in this though... including Russia and very likely shady deals have long ago been struck.
It's all about the Money and Power it controls.

Follow The Money.

(and then take a Peak into Petrol etc... you'll not be shocked but you should be appalled)

[Rowls]

We’ll wind and solar can keep the lights on as it’s doing it right now.

Hmmm, it's been a welcome boost at reducing the record high prices.

But it's only been able to do that because of the combination of record high prices and record stormy weather.

It's an important part of a diverse energy portfolio but it's only a part of it. There is no panacea here until the futurerama of nuclear fusion, hoverboards and flying cars.

Until then we're stuck in the real world of here and now. If the policies we've undertaken result spikes in energy prices as we're all suffering now then the very least the public deserve is a say on the matter and some political choice at the ballot box.

[Lowbankclaret]

I think you’re vastly overplaying the risks of nuclear energy and underplaying the risks of renewables actually keeping the lights on.

Thought certainly, these are things to be considered. Let the electorate decide, I say.

And when we say “keeping the lights on”, although that’s a not a euphemism it’s worth pointing out that the stage before “keeping the lights on” becomes a genuine problem is the price of electricity becoming a real problem.

Which is right now.

So I was an engineer for a blue chip company.
Everything ypu own , drive in , fly on is the lowest of three quotes.
And risk reviews that engineers do that are overturned by graduates.

Take the NASA shuttle. NASA wanted to take of. Thiokol chief engineer said it wasn’t designed to take office at temps that low and it would blow up. Thiokol managers overruled and gave permission. You can watch the result rain down from the sky’s of Florida.
Fukushima, the risk review said a 1 in 100 years wave could be 15 meters, bean counters said build one 5 meters. A few years later a review let them build one 7.5 meters
The result of the 15 meter one we now know..
Humans don’t listen to Engineers. They cut costs, and guess what none are in jail. They will happily take their pay check and kill the world. Where an Engineer won’t.

[Rowls]

It's also worth pointing out that -welcomed as it is having renewables producing such a large percentage of our power consumption- the high percentage is mainly because we turn off gas, coal, oil and nuclear production when strong renewable input allows.

All those other power sources can be switched on and off.

Renewables can be switched off, but swithcing them "on" only works depending on, almost literally, which way the wind happens to be blowing.

Obviously, wind power has the perceived benefit of being "low carbon" but should we factor in a cost/benefit analaysis of this? What's the cost of wind power vs these other sources?

[Rowls]

So I was an engineer for a blue chip company.
Everything ypu own , drive in , fly on is the lowest of three quotes.
And risk reviews that engineers do that are overturned by graduates.

Take the NASA shuttle. NASA wanted to take of. Thiokol chief engineer said it wasn’t designed to take office at temps that low and it would blow up. Thiokol managers overruled and gave permission. You can watch the result rain down from the sky’s of Florida.
Fukushima, the risk review said a 1 in 100 years wave could be 15 meters, bean counters said build one 5 meters. A few years later a review let them build one 7.5 meters
The result of the 15 meter one we now know..
Humans don’t listen to Engineers. They cut costs, and guess what none are in jail. They will happily take their pay check and kill the world. Where an Engineer won’t.

I'm very much a pro space rockets not blowing up kinda guy myself.

Anyway, I'm genuinely sorry for that flippancy there but I've just got home having been travelling since 5:45am and all the takeaways are closed, there's nothing in the house so I'm having to cook for myself.

Seriously, this is a debate that needs to be had in public and it needs people giving a varied range of opinions weighing up environmental cost, politicals costs and economic costs to our energy policy.

My rice is nearly done.

Goodnight, God Bless & UTC

[Hipper]

Ecotricity still put their prices up considerably like all other suppliers did. One of their claims was that unlike fossil fuel suppliers, once you've installed the infrastructure there's only the running/maintenance costs. It seems these prices are not covered by the Government's price cap.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/ ... ering-sums

"An Ecotricity spokesperson says: “The price cap is expected to rise by about £700 in April – and this increase will close the gap on our tariffs to rival suppliers. Derogation enabled us to react to wholesale price movements before the rest of the market. We do not expect our prices to rise in April – but we can’t predict exactly what happens next due to the volatility in the wholesale energy market – and the fact the government has yet to reveal how much of the cost of supplier failures will be added back on to energy bills.”

[The Enclosure]

And so it begins, where will this end?

[Rowls]

And so it begins, where will this end?

It will end with prices returning to a normal level.

This is down to us having "turned off" the global economy for about 18 months and bad energy policies across the western world 10-15 years. You can argue about the necessity of stopping the world economy because of covid but that's an outlyer.

The solution is simple - western governments need to produce more power. When they do this, prices will drop.

[Murger]

We've recently moved into a smaller property, but our bills have now gone through the roof. Luckily (ha) we're on a fixed tariff until December 2023, god knows how people are supposed to carry on like this.

[jdrobbo]

Has anyone actually taken the plunge and moved tariff?

[Lancasterclaret]

Has anyone actually taken the plunge and moved tariff?

Wrong time to it

Martin Lewis is really good for thing like this

moneysavingexpert.com

[bfcjg]

If you have access put more insulation down in your roof space,amazing how much heat it saves, simple tips like foil behind radiators, draught strips etc make one heck of a difference.

[Stayingup]

How about we diversify our energy policy and plan so that we can still do things like take showers and drink tea on calm summers days?

But if we’re going to ride the “zero carbon” train, let’s get a few nuclear power stations built, eh?

More than anything else, given it’s going to be a big issue with voters let’s have an honest debate about it and let the electorate decide.

Rolls Royce has a design for a modular Nuclera Reactor but its been largely ignored. One, just one could power a fair size city I have read.
I also read that Fracking creates as much vibration as itind down in an office chair. We have gas in the Bowlang Fiels for 40 years and thats only part of it. Again not in use thanks to our Metro zealously green leaders.

A vote on Net Zero might just happen. Wait till this 54% increase knicks in. Mine is up £50/month already with Octopus. There are some good posts on here about how to save energy and how best to create it (wave power was mentioned and is something I would support if it can be harnessed and provides energy at reasonable cost) I have had a strong aversion to most things Smart but now I will consider the latest Smart Meter. Even so none of these suggested savings, as good as they are will bring the cists of energy down by 50%.

[Stayingup]

If you have access put more insulation down in your roof space,amazing how much heat it saves, simple tips like foil behind radiators, draught strips etc make one heck of a difference.

Yes you are right and we all shoud all do it. But will it impact much on a 54% increase in energy costs?

[Lowbankclaret]

Yes you are right and we all shoud all do it. But will it impact much on a 54% increase in energy costs?

As I posted earlier, we have bought blinds and curtains, whilst I cannot show any figures yet. The house feels a lot warmer and the thermostat is turned down by 1 to 1.5 degrees once it’s goes dark and we shut them.
The patio doors I think bring in a lot of cold.

[Lowbankclaret]

Rolls Royce has a design for a modular Nuclera Reactor but its been largely ignored. One, just one could power a fair size city I have read.
I also read that Fracking creates as much vibration as itind down in an office chair. We have gas in the Bowlang Fiels for 40 years and thats only part of it. Again not in use thanks to our Metro zealously green leaders.

A vote on Net Zero might just happen. Wait till this 54% increase knicks in. Mine is up £50/month already with Octopus. There are some good posts on here about how to save energy and how best to create it (wave power was mentioned and is something I would support if it can be harnessed and provides energy at reasonable cost) I have had a strong aversion to most things Smart but now I will consider the latest Smart Meter. Even so none of these suggested savings, as good as they are will bring the cists of energy down by 50%.

RR has designed a modular reactor, it has some positives. Will provide jobs as it’s needs to be manned 24/7 and it needs armed security 24/7. It provides a regular supply that’s not at the whim of the weather.
Downsides, high set up and running costs. We still haven’t decided what we are going to do with waste that’s radioactive for thousands of years. Who is going vote to have that built in their backyard when they campaign against wind turbines.

Fracking has proved its not going to work on a small highly populated island. For the reasons why it’s been permanently shut down.

Whilst we are in this mess, we could open up the use of coal. I believe the coal seam in and around Padiham is only a few feet below the surface and it could all be remove by open cast mining. We still have several coal fired power stations, they stay in reserve for when needed, like the wind not blowing.

[Hipper]

We've recently moved into a smaller property, but our bills have now gone through the roof. Luckily (ha) we're on a fixed tariff until December 2023, god knows how people are supposed to carry on like this.

At least you've got a roof.

[Paul Waine]

RR has designed a modular reactor, it has some positives. Will provide jobs as it’s needs to be manned 24/7 and it needs armed security 24/7. It provides a regular supply that’s not at the whim of the weather.
Downsides, high set up and running costs. We still haven’t decided what we are going to do with waste that’s radioactive for thousands of years. Who is going vote to have that built in their backyard when they campaign against wind turbines.

Fracking has proved its not going to work on a small highly populated island. For the reasons why it’s been permanently shut down.

Whilst we are in this mess, we could open up the use of coal. I believe the coal seam in and around Padiham is only a few feet below the surface and it could all be remove by open cast mining. We still have several coal fired power stations, they stay in reserve for when needed, like the wind not blowing.

Hi Lowbank, I read a few weeks back that RR have submitted their small modular reactor for approval. If/when approved the plan will be to install on the sites that have already had nuclear reactors, both ones that are still operating and those that had the magnox that have all been shutdown for some years. This will get round the "not in my backyard" concerns.

All the coal fired generators are required to shut down by 2024 at the latest. Most of them have already shutdown.

I don't get this idea that "fracking isn't safe" whereas you'd like to re-open coal mines. Coal is the filthiest fossil fuel that the country has ever used. Natural gas, by comparison, is relatively clean with much lower emissions. Fracking is also safer than coal mining, whether we are thinking about the people doing the fracking/mining or the people and the environment near by.

I see a few have mentioned tidal power. Yes, a great idea, with one big drawback, as a country we're all complaining about the price of energy, tidal power (even though the tide is "free") will cost more than anything else we've seen or tried, so far. Plus, many don't like the damage tidal power will do to the coastal environment.

[Lowbankclaret]

Hi Lowbank, I read a few weeks back that RR have submitted their small modular reactor for approval. If/when approved the plan will be to install on the sites that have already had nuclear reactors, both ones that are still operating and those that had the magnox that have all been shutdown for some years. This will get round the "not in my backyard" concerns.

All the coal fired generators are required to shut down by 2024 at the latest. Most of them have already shutdown.

I don't get this idea that "fracking isn't safe" whereas you'd like to re-open coal mines. Coal is the filthiest fossil fuel that the country has ever used. Natural gas, by comparison, is relatively clean with much lower emissions. Fracking is also safer than coal mining, whether we are thinking about the people doing the fracking/mining or the people and the environment near by.

I see a few have mentioned tidal power. Yes, a great idea, with one big drawback, as a country we're all complaining about the price of energy, tidal power (even though the tide is "free") will cost more than anything else we've seen or tried, so far. Plus, many don't like the damage tidal power will do to the coastal environment.

The coal was offering a short term alternative, Putin has already said the gas price is going to at least double. Loads of families on low incomes are going to really struggle.

I agree tidal is great but I don’t think many companies have been developing this as much as wind. There is one in Scotland I saw where the turbine is between two islands where the currents are really strong.

[Lowbankclaret]

Hi Lowbank, I read a few weeks back that RR have submitted their small modular reactor for approval. If/when approved the plan will be to install on the sites that have already had nuclear reactors, both ones that are still operating and those that had the magnox that have all been shutdown for some years. This will get round the "not in my backyard" concerns.

All the coal fired generators are required to shut down by 2024 at the latest. Most of them have already shutdown.

I don't get this idea that "fracking isn't safe" whereas you'd like to re-open coal mines. Coal is the filthiest fossil fuel that the country has ever used. Natural gas, by comparison, is relatively clean with much lower emissions. Fracking is also safer than coal mining, whether we are thinking about the people doing the fracking/mining or the people and the environment near by.

I see a few have mentioned tidal power. Yes, a great idea, with one big drawback, as a country we're all complaining about the price of energy, tidal power (even though the tide is "free") will cost more than anything else we've seen or tried, so far. Plus, many don't like the damage tidal power will do to the coastal environment.

This one, sounds very promising.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-57991351

[atlantalad]

The UK is fairly privileged as an island with potentially and abundant ready source of both wind and wave power. Part of the problem with wind generated power is obvious – wind is too sporadic. Compare its availability with waves/ tides which occur 24hr / day 365 days a year – so there is a constant source of energy to be harnessed. However, as some state on here, the infrastructure required for tidal generate power is expensive. Added to this is its negative impact on environment/ fisheries if guided turbines are used.

I am therefore quite surprised that companies have not developed “hybrid” systems along the coast. Convert “wave” power ( i.e from a large bobbing floatation platform) to wind power. The floatation platform could, on one part of the wave cycle compress air. The compressed air can be directed through mini wind turbines to generate power. On the reverse stroke one could envisage a valve system rather like that of an IC engine where air is drawn-in past the turbine ( with reversed blades) thus allowing it to rotate on a common shaft so both the compression and suction strokes generate power as the waves ( and platform) rise and fall. Its not beyond the realms of ones imagination to place such wave- air compression structures, beneath the sea bed out from the coast – as per the new Hinckley Point nuclear station sea water cooling system.

… Just pondering ☺

[karatekid]

It won't work,why?......why?.......because it just won't....thats why.

Lieutenant The Honourable George Colthurst

[Stayingup]

RR has designed a modular reactor, it has some positives. Will provide jobs as it’s needs to be manned 24/7 and it needs armed security 24/7. It provides a regular supply that’s not at the whim of the weather.
Downsides, high set up and running costs. We still haven’t decided what we are going to do with waste that’s radioactive for thousands of years. Who is going vote to have that built in their backyard when they campaign against wind turbines.

Fracking has proved its not going to work on a small highly populated island. For the reasons why it’s been permanently shut down.

Whilst we are in this mess, we could open up the use of coal. I believe the coal seam in and around Padiham is only a few feet below the surface and it could all be remove by open cast mining. We still have several coal fired power stations, they stay in reserve for when needed, like the wind not blowing.
[/quote


Fracking has proved its not goung to work? Really? What proof is that?

Read what Francis Egan has to say about it and the study done at Liverpool University. Then look at USA which thanks to this method is now self sufficient in gas and ..... exports to ... us and has low gas prices.