Russia Invades

[RVclaret]

As per my earlier suggestion on sanctions, Boris is now pushing for Russia to be ejected from the Swift system

[Bordeauxclaret]

When things are going badly with the football it’s always the players that are out injured who seem to improve in peoples minds.

It seems things have got so bad in the world at the moment that they guy who thought Covid could be cured with bright lights and bleach and stared straight at a solar eclipse is seen as the answer.

[FCBurnley]

America has approx 15 Bio Labs in Ukraine all financed by the US department of Defense . That might be something Mr Putin is unhappy about. I wonder why they are there

[CoolClaret]

Earlier in this thread someone deliberately misinterpreted something you said to portray you negatively so i would expect you to not deliberately misinterpret my views either. I can give Trump credit for good things he did, if he did good things. I'm saying those good things don't exist.

Ok we can leave it at that

[Lowbankclaret]

As per my earlier suggestion on sanctions, Boris is now pushing for Russia to be ejected from the Swift system

An analyst has said that if that happened, countries could not pay Gasprom and the whole gas supply to Europe will be cut off.

Do you think that’s likely??

That would be power cuts across Europe.

[PeterWilton]

Marco Rubio is a Republican US Senator from Florida and sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee so he likely knows more than the average pleb about what's going on.

[FCBurnley]

An analyst has said that if that happened, countries could not pay Gasprom and the whole gas supply to Europe will be cut off.

Do you think that’s likely??

That would be power cuts across Europe.

Not if they used XRP on the blockchain in place of Swift. Only losers would be the Central Banks

[elwaclaret]

For years we’ve heard of NATO’s drone programme…. Why on earth do we need troops on the front line… by now we should easily have the technology to take out the Russian threat from safe distance. It is time we saw what our defence budgets have been paying for while the traditional forces have been run. Putin needs putting back in his box, he cannot be allowed to survive this in power and the quickest way is to blow away his army that sits around the Ukraine.

[FCBurnley]

Burnley 1 Tottenham 0
Brighton 0 Burnley 3

Those are the important numbers

[Lancasterclaret]

Not if they used XRP on the blockchain in place of Swift. Only losers would be the Central Banks

Right

Seriously mate, care to run through how that would work, like, over night?

[PeterWilton]

For years we’ve heard of NATO’s drone programme…. Why on earth do we need troops on the front line… by now we should easily have the technology to take out the Russian threat from safe distance. It is time we saw what our defence budgets have been paying for while the traditional forces have been run. Putin needs putting back in his box, he cannot be allowed to survive this in power and the quickest way is to blow away his army that sits around the Ukraine.

From a safe distance? lol. Do you think London is a safe distance from Russian retaliation?

[FCBurnley]

Right

Seriously mate, care to run through how that would work, like, over night?

Go and do your own research. Then you might understand although I doubt it

[Vegas Claret]

As per my earlier suggestion on sanctions, Boris is now pushing for Russia to be ejected from the Swift system

needs to happen today as does an announcement from the US and France that Boeing and Airbus will not be allowed to provide parts for any Russian Airlines, the airspace needs to be closed to anything Russian registered/owned outside of the Russian borders, they need to be isolated and it's the quickest way to do it

[PeterWilton]

Go and do your own research. Then you might understand although I doubt it

Dude. He only asked you to quickly explain it since you apparently are in the know. wtf?

[PeterWilton]

I don't think Russia will win eurovision this year.

[elwaclaret]

From a safe distance? lol. Do you think London is a safe distance from Russian retaliation?

Do you think Putin has any intention of stopping until he builds an empire the size of China?
And what does that mean to security going forward? This is like a re-run up to WW1… when did appeasement achieve anything in this scenario?

Putin is a bully, the only way to deal with bullies is call them out.

[PeterWilton]

Do you think Putin has any intention of stopping until he builds an empire the size of China?
And what does that mean to security going forward? This is like a re-run up to WW1… when did appeasement achieve anything in this scenario?

Putin is a bully, the only way to deal with bullies is call them out.

I just thought your "safe distance" qualifier was funny, as if the problem with our troops attacking Russian troops/targets is that they might personally be in harm's way.

[jedi_master]

Can someone with a deeper understanding of Russias population explain to me how it’s allowed to happen?

Just, hypothetically (forget about us being a part of NATO, forget anything sensible), imagine you awoke to find out that Boris had decided we were invading Iceland as we did not see them as a real country, what would the population in this country (in my ridiculous scenario) do at that moment?

Protesting is one thing, but the more likely occurrence would be outright rioting with people toppling the government by force and probably killing the Prime Minister - such is the insanity of the decision he made.

I realise my comparison is not apples for apples and that the historical significance of the former USSR is clearly part of Putins overall thinking/perhaps an ambition to return to pre-1991 - my point, simply, is why are the people of Russia allowing this to happen?

They’re as culpable as the man making the decision if they do not rise up as a people to topple his dictatorship and stop him. Weapons are one thing, but this is the biggest country in Europe we’re talking about - a government can be brought down by the people if the appetite is there. It clearly isn’t, which is both insane and scary.

[elwaclaret]

I just thought your "safe distance" qualifier was funny, as if the problem with our troops attacking Russian troops/targets is that they might personally be in harm's way.

There is nothing funny in any of this. Do you take out Hitler in 1939 of offer “peace in our time”… that worked well last time.

[Dy1geo]

Just read that BP that makes up around a 5% weight in the FTSE 100 and will be in many pension schemes especially passively run ones has a large stake in Rosneft and will be affected in Russia retaliates back with sanctions.

This is one example and just shows the complexity of globalisation and that any sanctions will hit both sides

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Can someone with a deeper understanding of Russias population explain to me how it’s allowed to happen?

Just, hypothetically (forget about us being a part of NATO, forget anything sensible), imagine you awoke to find out that Boris had decided we were invading Iceland as we did not see them as a real country, what would the population in this country (in my ridiculous scenario) do at that moment?

Protesting is one thing, but the more likely occurrence would be outright rioting with people toppling the government by force and probably killing the Prime Minister - such is the insanity of the decision he made.

I realise my comparison is not apples for apples and that the historical significance of the former USSR is clearly part of Putins overall thinking/perhaps an ambition to return to pre-1991 - my point, simply, is why are the people of Russia allowing this to happen?

They’re as culpable as the man making the decision if they do not rise up as a people to topple his dictatorship and stop him. Weapons are one thing, but this is the biggest country in Europe we’re talking about - a government can be brought down by the people if the appetite is there. It clearly isn’t, which is both insane and scary.

Just a reminder that the majority of the UK population did absolutely nothing over Iraq and then Afghanistan when we joined the USA in their invasion under false pretences.

If the Russian population are being fed lies by their government and media then they'll swallow it.

There are reports if various civilian officials calling Putin out over this, but the general population has been fed a narrative for years.

[SammyBoy]

Can someone with a deeper understanding of Russias population explain to me how it’s allowed to happen?

Just, hypothetically (forget about us being a part of NATO, forget anything sensible), imagine you awoke to find out that Boris had decided we were invading Iceland as we did not see them as a real country, what would the population in this country (in my ridiculous scenario) do at that moment?

Protesting is one thing, but the more likely occurrence would be outright rioting with people toppling the government by force and probably killing the Prime Minister - such is the insanity of the decision he made.

I realise my comparison is not apples for apples and that the historical significance of the former USSR is clearly part of Putins overall thinking/perhaps an ambition to return to pre-1991 - my point, simply, is why are the people of Russia allowing this to happen?

They’re as culpable as the man making the decision if they do not rise up as a people to topple his dictatorship and stop him. Weapons are one thing, but this is the biggest country in Europe we’re talking about - a government can be brought down by the people if the appetite is there. It clearly isn’t, which is both insane and scary.

There's no real democratic tradition in Russia is there, plus the media is entirely state ran so I imagine a sizeable number of ordinary Russians probably swallow the narrative - I find people largely believe what they're told to believe. I can see people being pro-war initially until the grinding reality of occupying a hostile territory sets in (peoples kids coming home in body bags etc). That said, I'm no expert, but that's what I'm guessing.

[elwaclaret]

Can someone with a deeper understanding of Russias population explain to me how it’s allowed to happen?

Just, hypothetically (forget about us being a part of NATO, forget anything sensible), imagine you awoke to find out that Boris had decided we were invading Iceland as we did not see them as a real country, what would the population in this country (in my ridiculous scenario) do at that moment?

Protesting is one thing, but the more likely occurrence would be outright rioting with people toppling the government by force and probably killing the Prime Minister - such is the insanity of the decision he made.

I realise my comparison is not apples for apples and that the historical significance of the former USSR is clearly part of Putins overall thinking/perhaps an ambition to return to pre-1991 - my point, simply, is why are the people of Russia allowing this to happen?

They’re as culpable as the man making the decision if they do not rise up as a people to topple his dictatorship and stop him. Weapons are one thing, but this is the biggest country in Europe we’re talking about - a government can be brought down by the people if the appetite is there. It clearly isn’t, which is both insane and scary.

Russian Parliament are able to stop Putin in theory… but none of them are willing to seek support as to do so leaves them at the mercy of Putin’s support. The Russian economy is on its knees and Putin needs to portray himself as Russia’s defender to handle his own people from revolting. It is similar to the Trump rallying the grunts to try and overturn public opinion… unfortunately there are likely enough chest beaters willing to believe national propaganda for Putin to think it’s worth a go. The average Russian I suspect is a bit non plussed that Russia would turn on ‘their own’

[PeterWilton]

Can someone with a deeper understanding of Russias population explain to me how it’s allowed to happen?

Just, hypothetically (forget about us being a part of NATO, forget anything sensible), imagine you awoke to find out that Boris had decided we were invading Iceland as we did not see them as a real country, what would the population in this country (in my ridiculous scenario) do at that moment?

Protesting is one thing, but the more likely occurrence would be outright rioting with people toppling the government by force and probably killing the Prime Minister - such is the insanity of the decision he made.

I realise my comparison is not apples for apples and that the historical significance of the former USSR is clearly part of Putins overall thinking/perhaps an ambition to return to pre-1991 - my point, simply, is why are the people of Russia allowing this to happen?

They’re as culpable as the man making the decision if they do not rise up as a people to topple his dictatorship and stop him. Weapons are one thing, but this is the biggest country in Europe we’re talking about - a government can be brought down by the people if the appetite is there. It clearly isn’t, which is both insane and scary.

The thing to remember is that Putin doesn't answer to the Russian people. They don't get a say on who their leader is the way we do. The Russian people might or might not support this. We'll never know because there isn't freedom or speech or freedom of expression in Russia. No opinion polls will be reliable and no one will speak out because vocal opposition will be seen as treason.

I think it's extremely harsh, and unreasonable, to think that just because the Russian people don't overtly oppose his actions that they are just as culpable as Putin himself.

[Hipper]

Any real opposition is killed or poisoned:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning ... ei_Navalny

[Vegas Claret]

NATO and USAF aircraft not far away from Ukraine at all. Surveillance and refuel capabilities meaning the fighters are up for certain

[PeterWilton]

There is nothing funny in any of this. Do you take out Hitler in 1939 of offer “peace in our time”… that worked well last time.

In 1939 Hitler's successor wouldn't have the ability to wipe every major European and American city from the face of the globe inside 30 minutes.

[Dixie Normous]

What happened to no politics on here ? Once again I see only one view is allowed Tony .

[PeterWilton]

Any real opposition is killed or poisoned:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning ... ei_Navalny

I'll be amazed if Navalny is alive at the end of the year. There's no reason for Putin to let him continue to be a thorn in his side. No need for deniability any more.

[Vegas Claret]

Day one

[RalphCoatesComb]

The parallels to this and WW2 are scary.
Putin just comes across as a mad dictator.

Very scary. The West don't have many options, just as we didn't have with Adolf in WWII

[KRBFC]

Can someone with a deeper understanding of Russias population explain to me how it’s allowed to happen?

Just, hypothetically (forget about us being a part of NATO, forget anything sensible), imagine you awoke to find out that Boris had decided we were invading Iceland as we did not see them as a real country, what would the population in this country (in my ridiculous scenario) do at that moment?

Protesting is one thing, but the more likely occurrence would be outright rioting with people toppling the government by force and probably killing the Prime Minister - such is the insanity of the decision he made.

I realise my comparison is not apples for apples and that the historical significance of the former USSR is clearly part of Putins overall thinking/perhaps an ambition to return to pre-1991 - my point, simply, is why are the people of Russia allowing this to happen?

They’re as culpable as the man making the decision if they do not rise up as a people to topple his dictatorship and stop him. Weapons are one thing, but this is the biggest country in Europe we’re talking about - a government can be brought down by the people if the appetite is there. It clearly isn’t, which is both insane and scary.

According to Putin, this is self defence, Russia cannot feel safe with modern day Ukraine

You only need to look at what's happened to Navalny for speaking out against the regime, watch a video from Yesterday when a spy chief stumbles his words live at council, he's visibly terrified of Putin.

The media is dangerous, drum up racial tension and other things to escalate situations. The Russian media will be ramming down the necks of Russians that it's all self defence, poor old Russia etc. Look on this topic to see how powerful media is, PeterWilton can't give Trump credit for anything, he's brainwashed into believing Trump did nothing good, just bad. We are in sheep times.

[RVclaret]

Day one

Oligarchs keep their cash in US dollars, they will now buy up the stock market at a huge discount and own more of Russian companies

[PeterWilton]

Very scary. The West don't have many options, just as we didn't have with Adolf in WWII

We had more in 1939, i think. I wonder how things would've gone back then if the Allies and Germany each had a nuclear deterrent, and Germany still invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland anyway.

[KRBFC]

I truly wonder what would happen if targeted drone strikes wiped out Putin and a few of his side kicks, including the Belarus president.

[Vegas Claret]

Oligarchs keep their cash in US dollars, they will now buy up the stock market at a huge discount and own more of Russian companies

which is why pulling Swift from Russia is key

[jedi_master]

The thing to remember is that Putin doesn't answer to the Russian people. They don't get a say on who their leader is the way we do. The Russian people might or might not support this. We'll never know because there isn't freedom or speech or freedom of expression in Russia. No opinion polls will be reliable and no one will speak out because vocal opposition will be seen as treason.

I think it's extremely harsh, and unreasonable, to think that just because the Russian people don't overtly oppose his actions that they are just as culpable as Putin himself.

As I said Peter in my post, I confess to not knowing a lot about Russia’s populace.

Culpable is perhaps the wrong word, I just find the idea that someone could attempt to take over another country without any large scale uprising occurring insane in any kind of civilised society.

When Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, we declared war a few days later (if memory serves). I only remember hearing of limited German resistance within the country to Hitler’s plans - with small, isolated resistance groups (and some assassination attempts) rather than one large public outcry and effort to pull down the government. I always remember asking these questions when doing my GCSE’s, why was it allowed to happen? Why did the country, by and large, sit, accept and think ‘oh, this is fine’. It’s just the same feeling I have right now, is all. I find it incredible.

It’s a different age, different players involved but history teaches us that if we sit idly by whilst Putin takes Ukraine - that might be it for 2022, but he will be emboldened by NATO’s lack of response (bar sanctions) and will ‘go again’ to the likes of Belarus etc. Where does it end?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I truly wonder what would happen if targeted drone strikes wiped out Putin and a few of his side kicks, including the Belarus president.

That could potentially make Putin a martyr to his people, especially as he's only at war with Ukraine and they don't have the drones.

If the US, or the UK, went and dropped a drone on his head then we're effectively entering into a war with Russia.
I don't think the UK/USA are ready or willing for that just yet.

[elwaclaret]

In 1939 Hitler's successor wouldn't have the ability to wipe every major European and American city from the face of the globe inside 30 minutes.

Quite right, let’s all turn the other cheek and hope for the best, I cannot see how that won’t work.

[Vegas Claret]

Needless to say UEFA have pulled the Champion League Final from Russia and Poland, Sweden, and Czech Republic have said they will not travel to Russia to play in World Cup qualifiers in March.

[Vegas Claret]

I truly wonder what would happen if targeted drone strikes wiped out Putin and a few of his side kicks, including the Belarus president.

never going to happen, Russia have good defensive capability

[PeterWilton]

There are anti-war protests in St. Petersburg and Novosibirisk.

[elwaclaret]

never going to happen, Russia have good defensive capability

That remains to be seen… the West massively overestimated Russian capability throughout the Cold War. The more ‘success’ Putin is seen as in Russia the more dangerous he becomes. Had the west jumped on him over Crimea this would not be happening… it is the result of appeasement.

[KRBFC]

never going to happen, Russia have good defensive capability

I wonder the response of the Russian people more than anything, I've no idea how he's really viewed by the majority of Russians, who likely daren't speak out while he's still breathing.

[KRBFC]

Does the death of Putin, end all of this? I'm not sure

[PeterWilton]

Protesters in Moscow are being arrested
https://twitter.com/ASLuhn/status/14968 ... -ZSt4cHpsQ

[jedi_master]

Protesters in Moscow are being arrested
https://twitter.com/ASLuhn/status/14968 ... -ZSt4cHpsQ

Why are the Police not the ones protesting alongside the rest of Moscow?

[Vegas Claret]

That remains to be seen… the West massively overestimated Russian capability throughout the Cold War. The more ‘success’ Putin is seen as in Russia the more dangerous he becomes. Had the west jumped on him over Crimea this would not be happening… it is the result of appeasement.

Russia has better defensive capability than it does offensive - but you are a trillion percent spot on about it being the result of appeasement

[PeterWilton]

Does the death of Putin, end all of this? I'm not sure

It'd be a disaster. He could keel over of natural causes and his successor would say he was assassinated by either the west, or by western-backed enemies, and use that to justify just about anything he wants to do.

[elwaclaret]

I wonder the response of the Russian people more than anything, I've no idea how he's really viewed by the majority of Russians, who likely daren't speak out while he's still breathing.

According to academics (admittedly not the oracle) that the nation will be split pretty much like the west… the flag kissers are all for anything Putin says, the intellectuals are horrified. But we are dealing with a nation that has been used to repression… it took horrific loss to trigger the 2nd Russian Revolution… and they’ve been brainwashed ever since. Just to point out how what utter nonsense Putin’s history is… Britain has throughout history been one of Russia’s biggest allies… but that didn’t stop the Prussians for the World Wars either ( in that case the Germans wrongly expected Britain would side with them).

I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin is severely Ill and is now in a rush to leave a legacy for history, he’s certainly not the reformed KGB man the west hoped. He saw an opportunity and made himself and his mates billionaires, now he wants to protect the corruption he created and the best way to avert Russians attention is to create a common cause… war.