Russia Invades

[Lancasterclaret]

Worth mentioning I think that we've been absolutely shameful in our attitude to Ukrainian refugees

I hope this changes

[Cubanforever]

Worth mentioning I think that we've been absolutely shameful in our attitude to Ukrainian refugees

I hope this changes

Just seen that, shameful.....we've only allowed 50 in through the new measures

[Lowbankclaret]

Imagine living in Russia right now - disconnected from the flab all internet, social media blocked, cards not working…

The older Russians may accept it but I very much doubt the young will - they’ll be off.

Be off where???

No airlines flying anywhere.

You can catch a train to Finland but only if you were working in the EU before.

They are trapped in a Russia for the time being.

[Cirrus_Minor]

Worth mentioning I think that we've been absolutely shameful in our attitude to Ukrainian refugees

I hope this changes

Agreed, absolutely dreadful. EU let’s in over one million and we let in 50. Embarrassing.

[elwaclaret]

Imagine living in Russia right now - disconnected from the flab all internet, social media blocked, cards not working…

The older Russians may accept it but I very much doubt the young will - they’ll be off.

Coca-Cola pulling out - as someone mentioned earlier, they just need to get rid of McDonalds now and they’ll be the healthiest nation on earth.

But jokes aside - There has not been one spare seat on a Finish bound train since the war began, as Russians vote with their feet. The FSB guy I’ve been quoting (as has Jarrow) came from a higher decorated former soldier turned university lecturer and the translation given by the American Racing driver - Came via a retweet by Dr. Peter Caddick-Adams. The main Jen is that Russia is completely screwed, none is talking to their own logistic dept and the plan he drew up had a mythical domination of Ukraine by June…. He ends by saying the war will have to end by June, as by then Russia will be pot-less in every conceivable way.

[Vegas Claret]

Think that’s the plan

absolutely it is but that might make him worse !

[RingoMcCartney]

Worth mentioning I think that we've been absolutely shameful in our attitude to Ukrainian refugees

I hope this changes

Maybe because the public have had their empathy tested seeing the 85% men aged 18 - 30 turning up at Dover giving it the thumbs up as they flee "war torn France" at a cost to the taxpayer of £5 million per week .


Then you see REAL refugees , mainly elderly, women , children and babes in arms , crying heartbroken and saying goodbye to their fathers , husbands and brothers. So it's understandable that the gear change required to adjust to GENUINE evacuees is taking a little adjustment.

So instead of trying to score cheap political points in a time of a global crisis, accept that Great Britain and its people , will do what's its always done and welcome and provide shelter to those needing it most and show little regard to chancers , and freeloaders attempting to take advantage of this country's natural humanity.

[Vegas Claret]

Coca-Cola pulling out - as someone mentioned earlier, they just need to get rid of McDonalds now and they’ll be the healthiest nation on earth.

But jokes aside - There has not been one spare seat on a Finish bound train since the war began, as Russians vote with their feet. The FSB guy I’ve been quoting (as has Jarrow) came from a higher decorated former soldier turned university lecturer and the translation given by the American Racing driver - Came via a retweet by Dr. Peter Caddick-Adams. The main Jen is that Russia is completely screwed, none is talking to their own logistic dept and the plan he drew up had a mythical domination of Ukraine by June…. He ends by saying the war will have to end by June, as by then Russia will be pot-less in every conceivable way.

do you have a link to the FSB guy please ?

[elwaclaret]

This is a long one… analysis of the Russia by a serving FSB analyst, Igor Sushko

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1 ... 99937?s=21

Hear you go Vegas.. its 2000 words long but unless some pretty clever people have been taken in… seems legitimate.

[Hibsclaret]

It’s also worth noting the French giving it to us about the refugees whilst their leader is having regular 90 minute chats with the psychopath and coming out and shrugging his shoulders saying it will get worse….thanks Macron great job. I think the French were a bit slower out of the blocks in terms of agreeing the sanctions and providing ammo etc than us too but they just love a chance to stick the knife in.

[RingoMcCartney]

Agreed, absolutely dreadful. EU let’s in over one million and we let in 50. Embarrassing.

A couple of weeks ago Germany refused to give permission to allow, potentially, life saving flights through its air space, to the Ukraine, to the RAF.

[Vegas Claret]

Hear you go Vegas.. its 2000 words long but unless some pretty clever people have been taken in… seems legitimate.

very damning for sure (hopefully it's accurate)

[elwaclaret]

A couple of weeks ago Germany refused to give permission to allow, potentially, life saving flights through its air space, to the Ukraine, to the RAF.

Not often this happens, but quite right regarding pre-war, however to balance since then they have ALL put us to shame. There is no harm in offering temporary residencies due to the emergency.

However it also has to noted that the Conservatives are between a rock and aa hard place. Open up to Ukrainians they immediately face charges of double-standards and racism. Keep them closed they look cold and uncaring.

Best to speed up the pain of increasing sanctions… even with all the potential skeletons it uncovers, and the potential meltdown of London’s gravy train.

[NewClaret]

Hear you go Vegas.. its 2000 words long but unless some pretty clever people have been taken in… seems legitimate.

I read all of that. Hard for me to believe it’s real, but if it is it sounds like an absolute farce of a situation.

[NewClaret]

Be off where???

No airlines flying anywhere.

You can catch a train to Finland but only if you were working in the EU before.

They are trapped in a Russia for the time being.

Presumably you can get to Finland and then out?

My point was more that they’ll be applying for visas and seeking work abroad. In many respects the EU should allow it - seeing his citizens deserting his country would be the ultimate humiliation.

[Vegas Claret]

I read all of that. Hard for me to believe it’s real, but if it is it sounds like an absolute farce of a situation.

when you see some of the people who have re-tweeted it it would make no sense for them to do so if they didn't think it was for the most part accurate.

[elwaclaret]

I read all of that. Hard for me to believe it’s real, but if it is it sounds like an absolute farce of a situation.

Like I said, it came from a decent source to me, that is why I was confident about relaying it. Whatever I post is from careful sources (even when they don’t show… its because I’ve read into the full document before posting). For example, my other half loves Tony Robinson - i read him but he demonstrates his ‘amateur historian’ enthusiasm far to often for me to risk retweeting any of his sources. I only quote news agencies (mostly Reuters, and things tweeted by Drs. Of related subjects. So though it sounds fantastic… too good to be true. On balance, due to the level of source (into me) I put it up.

[Spiral]

You've been on-point with the sourcing, elwa, it's much appreciated! I'd never have stumbled on these accounts.

[RingoMcCartney]

Not often this happens, but quite right regarding pre-war, however to balance since then they have ALL put us to shame. There is no harm in offering temporary residencies due to the emergency.

However it also has to noted that the Conservatives are between a rock and aa hard place. Open up to Ukrainians they immediately face charges of double-standards and racism. Keep them closed they look cold and uncaring.

Best to speed up the pain of increasing sanctions… even with all the potential skeletons it uncovers, and the potential meltdown of London’s gravy train.

Sod the skeletons !

Fair enough I agree with the general point you're making to be honest. The only point I'd differ on in is the potential accusation of "double-standards and racism.".

Surely , if the UK Government fast tracked Ukrainian evacuees, could anybody, hand on heart , argue that these majority, frightened, terrified elderly, infirm, women , mothers babies and children. As opposed to stopping what appear to be vast vast majority of healthy, mainly men, aged 18 = 30, of fighting age arriving at Dover on a daily basis fleeing "war, famine and persecution" in Calais . There'd be very few complaints from most right minded people?

Doubt it.

[Spiral]

Give it a f.ucking rest before the thread gets pulled. Using this thread to make a point about channel crossings. Bloody joke. Keep it to yourself.

[elwaclaret]

You've been on-point with the sourcing, elwa, it's much appreciated! I'd never have stumbled on these accounts.

Thank you Spiral, appreciate that, its the depth of the war on this thread that is awesome - we have the Arms experts, and you can always spot the historians for their raft of seemingly side events that all knit into the bigger web of what’s going on; each strand playing a part.

What a resource this thread is going to be as well… this should be (hopefully) a day by day, blow by blow largely well sourced record of events of a major European conflict. There’s a good BA’s worth on here for any future historians.

[RingoMcCartney]

Give it a f.ucking rest before the thread gets pulled.

Why? For simply saying what the vast vast vast majority of fair and right minded people with eyes in their head are seeing, saying and thinking?

Why don't you wind your neck in and "Give it a f.ucking rest" and let the grown ups have an adult conversation.

Anyway.....

[RingoMcCartney]

Give it a f.ucking rest before the thread gets pulled. Using this thread to make a point about channel crossings. Bloody joke. Keep it to yourself.

Why? For simply saying what the vast vast vast majority of fair and right minded people with eyes in their head are seeing, saying and thinking?

Why don't you wind your neck in and "Give it a f.ucking rest" and let the grown ups have an adult conversation.

Anyway.....

[Spiral]

Thank you Spiral, appreciate that, its the depth of the war on this thread that is awesome - we have the Arms experts, and you can always spot the historians for their raft of seemingly side events that all knit into the bigger web of what’s going on; each strand playing a part.

What a resource this thread is going to be as well… this should be (hopefully) a day by day, blow by blow largely well sourced record of events of a major European conflict. There’s a good BA’s worth on here for any future historians.

You think of Thucydides travelling around Greece interviewing as many people as he can to create an account of history. Now with social media we're all Thucydides!!!

[Spiral]

Just go away Ringo. You're one-note. Nobody appreciates you posting on this thread.

[Spiral]

Sorry for engaging, everyone. I'm going to ignore him.

[elwaclaret]

Sod the skeletons !

Fair enough I agree with the general point you're making to be honest. The only point I'd differ on in is the potential accusation of "double-standards and racism.".

Surely , if the UK Government fast tracked Ukrainian evacuees, could anybody, hand on heart , argue that these majority, frightened, terrified elderly, infirm, women , mothers babies and children. As opposed to stopping what appear to be vast vast majority of healthy, mainly men, aged 18 = 30, of fighting age arriving at Dover on a daily basis fleeing "war, famine and persecution" in Calais . There'd be very few complaints from most right minded people?

Doubt it.

Not my accusation against them - but we’ve paid millions keeping evacuees out, from various war-zones but the Ukrainians are just like us…. I can hear the criticism as I type. On the other hand; there’s even an argument why would anyone want to travel across Europe rather than stay close to relations still in Ukraine. But I think we have to be seen to be offering more, in fact we have to be doing more asap on a lot of fronts. The speeding up of legislation on Sanctions has come only just in time - the permanent change they were going for would be a major re-drafting of legislation, and at least four readings before it became law (2 houses - Law lords - crown) - what we need is an emergency act with a handshake between Johnson and Starmer.

[RingoMcCartney]

Just go away Ringo. You're one-note. Nobody appreciates you posting on this thread.

The temptation , that I'll resist, would be to say "just go away Spiral" . However, I'll just let you waffle on and see if you can do what you managed to do previously.

Which was. Attempt to lecture me on spelling and grammar. Then come out with the memorable classic " Ringo reads the Sun's colon"

Then, when I point our the glaring error , you're feeble attempt at writing it off as an "artful pun" was a hilariously pitiful laugh out loud moment.

So you stick around Spiral. Please.

[RingoMcCartney]

Not my accusation against them - but we’ve paid millions keeping evacuees out, from various war-zones but the Ukrainians are just like us…. I can hear the criticism as I type. On the other hand; there’s even an argument why would anyone want to travel across Europe rather than stay close to relations still in Ukraine. But I think we have to be seen to be offering more, in fact we have to be doing more asap on a lot of fronts. The speeding up of legislation on Sanctions has come only just in time - the permanent change they were going for would be a major re-drafting of legislation, and at least four readings before it became law (2 houses - Law lords - crown) - what we need is an emergency act with a handshake between Johnson and Starmer.

Honestly , don't disagree with a word you've said.

The Government brought in emergency legislation, virtually overnight, to curfew this country , (lockdown)based on what has been admitted to have been no more than guess work. So why can't the same Government circumvent the usual processes and simply do the right thing for those GENUINELY fleeing carnage?

[RingoMcCartney]

Some people simply cannot handle The Truth.

Good night y"all

[elwaclaret]

Finally tonight. Please lets not bicker, we have plenty of threads for that. I and have noticed others are willing to discuss more or less anything but wind ups really does everyone with a genuine interest a disturbance. I will finish this by saying I’ve been very impressed by both our political leaderships, so far as this it concerned… long may it continue that they listen to each other. Let’s do the same… keep it clean. Please.

[RingoMcCartney]

Finally tonight. Please lets not bicker, we have plenty of threads for that. I and have noticed others are willing to discuss more or less anything but wind ups really does everyone with a genuine interest a disturbance. I will finish this by saying I’ve been very impressed by both our political leaderships, so far as this it concerned… long may it continue that they listen to each other. Let’s do the same… keep it clean. Please.

Fair enough

[Lowbankclaret]

Honestly , don't disagree with a word you've said.

The Government brought in emergency legislation, virtually overnight, to curfew this country , (lockdown)based on what has been admitted to have been no more than guess work. So why can't the same Government circumvent the usual processes and simply do the right thing for those GENUINELY fleeing carnage?

Just stop trying to get this thread closed.

[RingoMcCartney]

Just stop trying to get this thread closed.

Apologies. Forgot. That's your job.

[Lowbankclaret]

Apologies. Forgot. That's your job.

Yep and I apologised and pleaded for the others not to be punished because I am an idiot. Which thankfully was I guess accepted and it was reopened.
Not sure you would do the same.

[Boss Hogg]

This is a good thread with some quite informed posters on. Let’s keep it open.

[Spiral]

Chief economist of the Institute of International Finance, the trade group/association of the global financial services industry, predicts a 15% contraction of Russian's economy in 2022, twice what Russia experienced during the 08/09 global financial crisis.

https://twitter.com/RobinBrooksIIF/stat ... 9573498884

There's no way this doesn't have severe political ramifications in Russia.

[Vegas Claret]

I can't possibly imagine this at all

[Vegas Claret]

as Michael says, watch the whole thing. If that is scripted he deserves an Oscar
https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/statu ... 2da3qFIOaQ

[Vegas Claret]

Interesting thread, worth the read imho
https://twitter.com/maxbergmann/status/ ... RFwlACjQ5g

[Lancasterclaret]

You think of Thucydides travelling around Greece interviewing as many people as he can to create an account of history. Now with social media we're all Thucydides!!!

What a line this is

Fantastic work Spiral

[The Enclosure]

Anyone know if there is anywhere locally or online where you can give a cash donation to give a little help to the Ukranian people.
Its heartbreaking to see these women and kids fleeing there country and having to leave loved ones behind.

[walter the softy]

Anyone know if there is anywhere locally or online where you can give a cash donation to give a little help to the Ukranian people.
Its heartbreaking to see these women and kids fleeing there country and having to leave loved ones behind.

Yes, it really is heartbreaking.

I asked a Ukrainian friend of mine who is in the west of the country what people need and how people can help from outside. He wrote to me that he would recommend money going here.

https://www.comebackalive.in.ua/

Since then, I have heard the same thing from other people with family ties to Ukraine and I am minded to listen to people who are directly affected by this awful attack.

[Hipper]

500lb bombs dropped on residential area. One that failed to explode…

https://twitter.com/piperdewn/status/15 ... 95681?s=21

The Starfighter - shown in the link. Reminds me of a German joke.

What's the best way to acquire a Starfighter? Buy a small plot of land.

(This is because the Luftwaffe's Starfighters had a reputation for falling out of the sky.)

[Top Claret]

Some excellent posts from Ringo with the usual response from the wets who make up the majority on this board.

Well done Ringo

[Willieonthewing]

Some excellent posts from Ringo with the usual response from the wets who make up the majority on this board.

Well done Ringo

I get the impression that some people just look at the username, and take offence, without actually reading what has been said

[bfcjg]

BBC News - Ukraine conflict: Oil price soars to highest level since 2008
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60642786
The phrase exploring regarding a ban on Russian oil is either a discreet threat to pressurise Russia more or dithering.

[Top Claret]

BBC News - Ukraine conflict: Oil price soars to highest level since 2008
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60642786
The phrase exploring regarding a ban on Russian oil is either a discreet threat to pressurise Russia more or dithering.

The reason we have this conflict is because of the EUs reliance on Russian energy and a weak POTUS

[aggi]

Worth mentioning I think that we've been absolutely shameful in our attitude to Ukrainian refugees

I hope this changes

I said it a week ago or so that they've really failed to read the room on this one. With the exception of a few xenophobes it's hard to imagine people having an issue with a more open policy for Ukrainian refugees. Some of the comments from MPs on the issue have been disgraceful showing an absolute lack of empathy. The constant questions around it and slow revisions just seems a pointless thing to waste time on at the moment.

[bfcjg]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/de ... d=msedgdhp
Will these be deployed or is it another bit of pressure being put on Russia. Not sure how the details of wars work but I am sure NATO military have contact with Russian military by passing politicians especially in Russia and they will be worried that they will have no armour left if these planes join the conflict, perhaps they will be reassuring the Russian generals that if they withdraw and overthrow Putin they will be supported by the West, who knows.