The Jack Cork mystery...

[Mala591]

Plays three full games, we play well, win two and draw one, gets dropped, we lose three games.

He (Jack Cork) must be confused and a little bit furious (I would be in his position).

What’s going on Sean?

[BERNIEU]

Dyche thought Ben Mee was a left-back and only put him central when I think it was Duff who got injured. He needs time to spot the obvious but he'll get there.

[TheFamilyCat]

Plays three full games, we play well, win two and draw one, gets dropped, we lose three games.

He (Jack Cork) must be confused and a little bit furious (I would be in his position).

What’s going on Sean?

I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this.

[jdrobbo]

[ClaretTony]

Dyche thought Ben Mee was a left-back and only put him central when I think it was Duff who got injured. He needs time to spot the obvious but he'll get there.

FYI - Dyche inherited a team for whom Ben Mee played left back. It was the previous manager who moved him there.

[ClaretTony]

He (Jack Cork) must be confused and a little bit furious

Apart from coming up with bizarre formations each week, you can now tell us how players feel.

[BERNIEU]

FYI - Dyche inherited a team for whom Ben Mee played left back. It was the previous manager who moved him there.

He played Ben Mee at left back and was forced to play him central, and then it clicked. Just for your information.

And I'm a fan of Dyche, and hope he stays - but he got it wrong with Mee. And he's getting it wrong with Cork. He was also about to send McNeil down to Cheltenham but was forced into playing him.

[Devils_Advocate]

A lot of young centre backs have to start out a full back and it was completely the right decision for Howe and then Dyche to play him there especially with Shackell playing the left centre half role.

It became an issue in that second promotion season because we had Ward who was a better left back than Mee not playing and Mee playing left back when he was a better centre back than Duff.

I think Factual Franks is going way over the top about it but it is fair to say that Dyche was a little slow in moving things around and the eventual move to put Ward in at left back and move Mee into the centre was (along with Lawton replacing Darwika) pivotal in the run we went on in the second half of the season to win the league

[ClaretTony]

He played Ben Mee at left back and was forced to play him central, and then it clicked. Just for your information.

And I'm a fan of Dyche, and hope he stays - but he got it wrong with Mee. And he's getting it wrong with Cork. He was also about to send McNeil down to Cheltenham but was forced into playing him.

I'll repeated, he inherited a team for whom Ben Mee played left back with Michael Duff & Jason Shackell playing in the centre of defence. It was that line up that won the first promotion with Kieran Trippier completing the back four.

And I can assure you he was not sending McNeil down to Cheltenham. Duff tried to get him, Barton tried to get him to Fleetwood too when Duff was still at Burnley. Both were turned down.

[claretonthecoast1882]

He played Ben Mee at left back and was forced to play him central, and then it clicked. Just for your information.

And I'm a fan of Dyche, and hope he stays - but he got it wrong with Mee. And he's getting it wrong with Cork. He was also about to send McNeil down to Cheltenham but was forced into playing him.

Does make you wonder someone who works with the players day in day out yet we have posters who know a lot more than him about them by watching them for 90 minutes a week and sometimes just on a tv screen.

[Bosscat]

Spoiler alert ...

The Butler did it

[Paddy1882]

Dyche is big on stats and numbers. Brownhill has better stats when it comes to pressing, turnovers and interceptions and Westwood has better stats when it comes to putting the ball at risk and balls into the final third as well as both having better goal involvement stats so I’d say that’s why he opts for those two when all available. For what it’s worth Iv never been a huge cork fan but I was surprised that he was dropped for Westwood and felt it was harsh on him as he performed very well and allowed Brownhill to operate further forward, but then again I’m not the manager.

[warksclaret]

Dyche is big on stats and numbers. Brownhill has better stats when it comes to pressing, turnovers and interceptions and Westwood has better stats when it comes to putting the ball at risk and balls into the final third as well as both having better goal involvement stats so I’d say that’s why he opts for those two when all available. For what it’s worth Iv never been a huge cork fan but I was surprised that he was dropped for Westwood and felt it was harsh on him as he performed very well and allowed Brownhill to operate further forward, but then again I’m not the manager.

Like you not Cork's biggest fan of late, but we are desperate, and the smell of points earned in those three games that Jack played, for me should have heralded a further appearance. Just shows you how stubborn the manager is, and who his favorites are. 9 out of 10 claret fans if asked in the second half of the Brentford game who should be subbed, would probably have said Westwood. However if SD had subbed him it would have been an admission his starting line up was wrong. You would also think his two coaches, if they had any spine would have asked SD to give JC another go

[Mala591]

Apart from coming up with bizarre formations each week, you can now tell us how players feel.

Never having played football at any ‘reasonable’ level Tony, you wouldn’t understand

[arise_sir_charge]

I’m big on stats as well.

We’d won once all season with Dyche’s preferred formation, it changed because it had to and we got 7 points from an available 9 scored 5 goals and conceded just 1. We changed back and we’ve not taken a point, not scored a goal and conceded 8. Alarming stats them.

Also on the Ben Mee to centre half discussion, fans were crying out for it on here but we were reassured that the gaffer knew best. As soon as he changed it we went undefeated.

Sometimes just looking with your eyes is better than whatever some stats can tell you.

[alboclaret]

Dyche is big on stats and numbers. Brownhill has better stats when it comes to pressing, turnovers and interceptions and Westwood has better stats when it comes to putting the ball at risk and balls into the final third as well as both having better goal involvement stats so I’d say that’s why he opts for those two when all available. For what it’s worth Iv never been a huge cork fan but I was surprised that he was dropped for Westwood and felt it was harsh on him as he performed very well and allowed Brownhill to operate further forward, but then again I’m not the manager.

I agree with what your saying. If the team is picked on stats alone though anyone can manage these players and its a waste of money having a gaffa on a massive wage. Obviously there is more to it but it can't be about stats that much surely

[ClaretTony]

Never having played football at any ‘reasonable’ level Tony, you wouldn’t understand

[Goddy]

Thread title does sound like a Half Man Half Biscuit song, though.......

[jojomk1]

I’m big on stats as well.

We’d won once all season with Dyche’s preferred formation, it changed because it had to and we got 7 points from an available 9 scored 5 goals and conceded just 1. We changed back and we’ve not taken a point, not scored a goal and conceded 8. Alarming stats them.

Sometimes just looking with your eyes is better than whatever some stats can tell you.

The formation has, AND WILL, always be the same under Dyche (4-4-2 is the one and only future in his eyes)

Even just one win couldn't get him to change his mind on formation or personnel (blinkered, one trick pony and other sayings come to mind)

The Cork/Brownhill pairing was forced upon him with the suspension/injury to Westwood - Dyche just reverted back to type as soon as he could despite the excellent results showing some real progress

Will Cork be p1ssed off - I would think so

Will other squad players be p1ssed off - I would think so

[bfcjg]

It was Mr Cork, in the conservatory with the candlestick.

[Vegas Claret]

The biggest thing about playing Cork was it brought the best out of Brownhill and the midfield looked more connected to the front players. Dyche has completely lost the plot imho, the pressure has got to him.

[Ric_C]

The biggest thing about playing Cork was it brought the best out of Brownhill and the midfield looked more connected to the front players. Dyche has completely lost the plot imho, the pressure has got to him.

It also seemed to get us to play more football in general which in turn suited Weghorst and Lennon

[SalisburyClaret]

This Cork chap must be some player

[RVclaret]

This Cork chap must be some player

Comments like this are so pathetic. No one is saying he is prime Kante or Zidane. People are simply stating both stats in terms of when our wins and good form came, plus the fact we did play the best football of the season in recent times, when Cork was playing. Dyche has also had the ‘earn the shirt’ mantra, which is fair enough, yet Cork had surely earned the shirt during this period and didn’t warrant sitting on the bench for the next 3, which inevitably we lost and conceded 8, scoring 0. Now bore off with your snarky comments.

[thelaughingclaret]

Dyche dropped Cork for Westwood for the same reason he dropped Jay Rod who was also playing well for a winger.
Same reason he doesn’t make subs.
There are two key things pretty much all other mangers do that Dyche doesn’t. They rarely drop players who are playing well and secondly if during a game things aren’t going to plan, they make tactical substitutions.

[SalisburyClaret]

Comments like this are so pathetic. No one is saying he is prime Kante or Zidane. People are simply stating both stats in terms of when our wins and good form came, plus the fact we did play the best football of the season in recent times, when Cork was playing. Dyche has also had the ‘earn the shirt’ mantra, which is fair enough, yet Cork had surely earned the shirt during this period and didn’t warrant sitting on the bench for the next 3, which inevitably we lost and conceded 8, scoring 0. Now bore off with your snarky comments.

Perhaps you might consider that it’s pretty boring to be endlessly going on about how useless one of our players is and how wonderful his replacement will be. You may also like to consider that only selecting stats that support your point of view just invalidates those stats. If you don’t like other people’s comments I’d like to gently suggest that a message forum is really not the right place for you.

[arise_sir_charge]

Perhaps you might consider that it’s pretty boring to be endlessly going on about how useless one of our players is and how wonderful his replacement will be. You may also like to consider that only selecting stats that support your point of view just invalidates those stats. If you don’t like other people’s comments I’d like to gently suggest that a message forum is really not the right place for you.

So do you think Westwood should be starting then?

[SalisburyClaret]

So do you think Westwood should be starting then?

Yes I’d start Westwood and Cork and Brownhill.

[boatshed bill]

Yes I’d start Westwood and Cork and Brownhill.

Yes, well we know that isn't going to happen.

[warksclaret]

Yes, well we know that isn't going to happen.

It might happen as we play City, and SD has run 5 in midfield before, particularly against the big four. VW as the loan striker. I too would favour this-we simply need to try something different. Its also likely Long plays so all the more need to fill the midfield.Would play Cornet & McNeil as the two wide men, but SD needs to talk to McNeil to see he is up to facing the home fans again.If not Lennon to start

[boatshed bill]

It might happen as we play City, and SD has run 5 in midfield before, particularly against the big four. VW as the loan striker. I too would favour this-we simply need to try something different. Its also likely Long plays so all the more need to fill the midfield.Would play Cornet & McNeil as the two wide men, but SD needs to talk to McNeil to see he is up to facing the home fans again.If not Lennon to start

can't see it meself.
Regarding McNeil, the crowd needs to behave. This young man has carried the bulk of our attacking threat for about 3 years and has been worked far too hard (in my opinion), he has a dip in form and people are on his back.
one thing I have noticed though is how many of his "whipped" crosses are being blocked for corners: clubs do their research.

[ksrclaret]

Didn't Dyche play Ben Mee at left back for 3 years before switching him to his best position?

He's certainly a stubborn old goat at times. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry can see Jack Cork should be played. Maybe we'll see it next year or summat.

[Jakubclaret]

can't see it meself.
Regarding McNeil, the crowd needs to behave. This young man has carried the bulk of our attacking threat for about 3 years and has been worked far too hard (in my opinion), he has a dip in form and people are on his back.
one thing I have noticed though is how many of his "whipped" crosses are being blocked for corners: clubs do their research.

A dip in form is a odd 1 or 2 games going awry not posters struggling to remember when he last did something useful or had a good game, a dip in form is not somebody permanently seemingly going to sh1t.

[Elizabeth]

If Cork has been on the bench then there is no mystery. I look at the recent points haul when he played

[KRBFC]

Dyche thought Ben Mee was a left-back and only put him central when I think it was Duff who got injured. He needs time to spot the obvious but he'll get there.

What was your previous username? Are you FactualFrank? I thought that was someone else

[KRBFC]

Are banned posters allowed to create new accounts?

[boatshed bill]

A dip in form is a odd 1 or 2 games going awry not posters struggling to remember when he last did something useful or had a good game, a dip in form is not somebody permanently seemingly going to sh1t.

A dip in form could be a lot more than a couple of games, and sometimes it brings with it a loss of confidence.
We have a manager and coaching staff who seem happy to play Dwight McNeil just about every game, his work-rate and stats are still quite impressive.
But his creative play is suffering.

[Jakubclaret]

A dip in form could be a lot more than a couple of games, and sometimes it brings with it a loss of confidence.
We have a manager and coaching staff who seem happy to play Dwight McNeil just about every game, his work-rate and stats are still quite impressive.
But his creative play is suffering.

You are right we do have a manager & coaching staff who play him most games we are hardly blessed with any other options other than playing him. We’ve seen the best of Dwight I think he’s peaked & now on a slope here anyway.

[Elizabeth]

A dip in form could be a lot more than a couple of games, and sometimes it brings with it a loss of confidence.
We have a manager and coaching staff who seem happy to play Dwight McNeil just about every game, his work-rate and stats are still quite impressive.
But his creative play is suffering.

To be honest Bill there has been nothing impressive about McNeil for some time now but he surely is hoping that Dyche gives him the chance to sit out the next game or two while he gets his confidence back. I re- iterate , McNeil can still play a part in turning this season around

[boatshed bill]

You are right we do have a manager & coaching staff who play him most games we are hardly blessed with any other options other than playing him. We’ve seen the best of Dwight I think he’s peaked & now on a slope here anyway.

So tell me why we are not playing Cornet there.

[Jakubclaret]

So tell me why we are not playing Cornet there.

We are playing both in separate roles, SD must think both can add together in their own ways for attacking impetus which to a certain degree is possible when on form but not very often he is, he’s peaked & won't surpass that he’s still an average player in a low ranking PL side so can more than justify the inclusion nobody better on standby to replace him.

[Paddy1882]

I agree with what your saying. If the team is picked on stats alone though anyone can manage these players and its a waste of money having a gaffa on a massive wage. Obviously there is more to it but it can't be about stats that much surely

There must be more to it but I’d say 90% of Burnley fans would have had Cork keeping the shirt despite Westwood being back so for me I’d say maybe the stats play a part in what players he picks to start, the only other thing I can think is he knows Cork isn’t staying and he feels that unlike the Tarky situation, he can afford not to pick someone who’s not staying without it effecting the side to much

[boatshed bill]

We are playing both in separate roles, SD must think both can add together in their own ways for attacking impetus which to a certain degree is possible when on form but not very often he is, he’s peaked & won't surpass that he’s still an average player in a low ranking PL side so can more than justify the inclusion nobody better on standby to replace him.

Cornet played left wingback in a 5, so he could do it.
Truth is McNeil's defensive stats are very good.
if there's a reason for McNeil's perceived loss of form look at the coaching staff and what D Mc is being expected to do.

[Elizabeth]

Cork for Westwood and Cornet for McNeil would make a positive difference to our ability to score I'm sure .

[Elizabeth]

Truth is McNeil's defensive stats are very good

Well that's not going to save us

[boatshed bill]

Well that's not going to save us

And neither is his heading ability

[Elizabeth]

That was like a parody , bill . I don't know about you but I'm getting fed up with the way he's being asked to play .

[boatshed bill]

That was like a parody , bill . I don't know about you but I'm getting fed up with the way he's being asked to play .

And so am I.

[alboclaret]

There must be more to it but I’d say 90% of Burnley fans would have had Cork keeping the shirt despite Westwood being back so for me I’d say maybe the stats play a part in what players he picks to start, the only other thing I can think is he knows Cork isn’t staying and he feels that unlike the Tarky situation, he can afford not to pick someone who’s not staying without it effecting the side to much

Yeah, maybe that's the case, good point.
Infuriating and for me he's got it wrong.

[tiger76]

There must be more to it but I’d say 90% of Burnley fans would have had Cork keeping the shirt despite Westwood being back so for me I’d say maybe the stats play a part in what players he picks to start, the only other thing I can think is he knows Cork isn’t staying and he feels that unlike the Tarky situation, he can afford not to pick someone who’s not staying without it effecting the side to much

We need to play our best possible XI, and if that includes Cork, which on recent form for me it should, then whether he's staying or going is irrelevant in my eyes.