P and O

[conyoviejo]

WTF.. ..Is that legal?

[DCWat]

A bizarre approach - I can’t understand what outcome they were expecting, other than what they have got… Uproar (quite rightly) amongst those being let go and a huge pile of bad will from customers and the public at large.

[TheFamilyCat]

WTF.. ..Is that legal?

That was my first thought when I read it. Seems unlikely but surely a business of that size has taken appropriate legal advice and believe that it is.

[rufus lumley]

Arabs own it.

[Leisure]

Arabs own it.

But surely they have to comply with British employment law!

[Cirrus_Minor]

I think maritime law applies to these workers of which is notoriously poor. This is an outrage and the government should now be asking for any covid payments back.

[Boss Hogg]

Not the best way to treat staff but legal. The company could go bust otherwise so urgency was needed.

[elwaclaret]

I think maritime law applies to these workers of which is notoriously poor. This is an outrage and the government should now be asking for any* covid payments back.

*Any, being multi-million pounds of.

[Inchy]

I have used p and o a few times in the past but I won’t be using them again. I hope others follow suit

[elwaclaret]

I have used p and o a few times in the past but I won’t be using them again. I hope others follow suit

Not a regular enough traveller by ferry, but certainly share your sentiment. Disgusting way to behave.

[Bosscat]

P&O cruise lines have been very quick to distance themselves from P&O ferries as being a completely different company to avoid any backlash.

[Top Claret]

Not the best way to treat staff but legal. The company could go bust otherwise so urgency was needed.

Exactly. If the company went bust whoever picks up the slack will more than likely hire far Eastern labour

[Top Claret]

P&O cruise lines have been very quick to distance themselves from P&O ferries as being a completely different company to avoid any backlash.

The old P&O was split up years ago with P&O cruises owned by Carnival whose only British crewe will be officers and entertainment staff

[jrgbfc]

P&O cruise lines have been very quick to distance themselves from P&O ferries as being a completely different company to avoid any backlash.

My parents are due to go on a cruise with them in June but they've been assured there won't be an issue as like you say they're a completely different company.

[ksrclaret]

Absolutely appalling.

I hope they lose out on a shedload of customers now. Toxic brand.

[Leisure]

Not the best way to treat staff but legal. The company could go bust otherwise so urgency was needed.

Urgency! So Shi**ing on the staff is ok then?

[Boss Hogg]

I didn’t say that but then you know that.

[Bosscat]

Should we offer PPP as a legal council to the 800

[ŽižkovClaret]

Not the best way to treat staff but legal. The company could go bust otherwise so urgency was needed.

No-one is saying redundancy isn't a necessary evil sometimes, but to have done it in this manner, is indefensible

[Boss Hogg]

I have used p and o a few times in the past but I won’t be using them again. I hope others follow suit

You’d have had no choice if they hadn’t laid these people off.

[Tricky Trevor]

This from Sky about workers rights.

5B2CF4D7-145E-46FA-916B-AE0EECADDC57.jpeg (282.93 KiB) Viewed 2489 times

[Leisure]

I didn’t say that but then you know that.

But does 'urgency' mean anything is ok?

[dougcollins]

Could be the tip of the iceberg, if you pardon the pun. Perhaps P &O have gambled that EU employment law no longer applies.

Apparently, we're no longer in the EU.

[Lancasterclaret]

If this is remotely legal, then its got to be made illegal asap

[CombatClaret]

“There are two busloads at King George Dock in Hull of cheap agency workers from eastern Europe who are hoping to be boarding the vessel to sail the ferry this evening,”

Labour laws, gig economy loopholes, etc all of which we had & have control over before and after we removed our own freedom of movement across Europe.

[Boss Hogg]

But does 'urgency' mean anything is ok?

No. It’s not good at all but it’s not illegal. They could have gone a better way about it and provided more notice but then the company might have gone bust. Not sure the latter option helps anyone including customers. Some of the staff will have been there some time and I can’t imagine the quality of service will be that great with agency workers. ( BTW I know what you are trying to do here in pointing a finger in case I actually thought it was an acceptable way to treat employees). I’m just highlighting that if the alternative is going bust then the company won’t take the alternative. You’d have to question the running of the company though that it’s got to this.

[Carport]

Just back last week from a brilliant two week Cruise on P&O Azura in the Caribbean. I’m glad they are nothing to do with P&O Ferries

[bobinho]

It's a shocker, and no mistake. If P&O have taken furlough money, and any other assistance to help businesses through the recent hard times they should be made to pay it all back.

P&O won't be the last to do this if they get away with it. You can see why they are giving it a go though... we have politicians doing whatever they want when they want, and treating people with utter contempt and getting away with it, so we should be expecting more of it.

As an aside, isn't EU employment law still viable here, until it's replaced? I was under the impression that everything stayed in place until re-written and officially adopted.

So all the sacked staff are to be replaced by third party managed `owned` staff... anyone want to hazard a guess where these replacements will be brought in from?

[Cubanforever]

Think the timing with other things going on is mercenary aswell, disgusting behaviour.....I'm sure some of their top bosses who orcastrated it will be on big bonuses for carrying it out.....there is so much wrong with the world but the bullies seem to get away with it

[Herts Clarets]

Company stating they are losing 100m a year and these losses are not sustainable. By the way it is reported the parent company paid a 270m dividend to shareholders last year....

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Could be the tip of the iceberg, if you pardon the pun. Perhaps P &O have gambled that EU employment law no longer applies.

Apparently, we're no longer in the EU.

Wouldn't make a difference from what I've heard on the radio today, our laws are better than the EU's in this respect.

[ClaretDiver]

No. It’s not good at all but it’s not illegal. They could have gone a better way about it and provided more notice but then the company might have gone bust. Not sure the latter option helps anyone including customers. Some of the staff will have been there some time and I can’t imagine the quality of service will be that great with agency workers. ( BTW I know what you are trying to do here in pointing a finger in case I actually thought it was an acceptable way to treat employees). I’m just highlighting that if the alternative is going bust then the company won’t take the alternative. You’d have to question the running of the company though that it’s got to this.

Genuine question, are you an employment lawyer, because all of the ones I have heard commentating on this today have suggested what they have done is tantamount to illegal......could be massive repercussions on this one....

[kendalianclaret]

Not the best way to treat staff but legal. The company could go bust otherwise so urgency was needed.

NOT Legal at all, you can not make someone redundant then employ someone else to do that job, which is what they are doing.

[dougcollins]

Wouldn't make a difference from what I've heard on the radio today, our laws are better than the EU's in this respect.

That's not been tested yet.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

That's not been tested yet.

The claim is even if we were in the EU they could do this and our employment laws, like many others, are better than the EU's.

The only way to test is for a company within the EU to do the same.

Interestingly the ships are flagged to Cyprus for tax reasons, so I wonder if there is the potential for the EU to get involved.

[dougcollins]

The claim is even if we were in the EU they could do this and our employment laws, like many others, are better than the EU's.

The only way to test is for a company within the EU to do the same.

Interestingly the ships are flagged to Cyprus for tax reasons, so I wonder if there is the potential for the EU to get involved.

Yes, that part could become interesting.

[Herts Clarets]

In any dealings I have had with redundancies, it is the job that is made redundant and not the individual. Not sure how legal it is to make 800 redundant then bring in agency workers to do the same job.

[dsr]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is some scope for the union to get an injunction to sequester the ships pending a massive unfair dismissal case. Even if the ships are registered abroad, they could surely be seized when in British waters to repay debts owed by the company.

[duncandisorderly]

I may be wrong, and apropos of nothing, but don't P&O own Nelson Arndale (Admiral?) centre and a few other land banks like Colne Blockbusters (as was) or the CoOp building or something?

[Clarets4me]

The claim is even if we were in the EU they could do this and our employment laws, like many others, are better than the EU's.The only way to test is for a company within the EU to do the same.
Interestingly the ships are flagged to Cyprus for tax reasons, so I wonder if there is the potential for the EU to get involved.

ICG, who own Irish Ferries and based in Dublin, did much the same in 2006 ...

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2006/0907/80078-icg/

[Wokingclaret]

P&O used to be great when they bought out TT
So sad, no respect for customers today either.

[Lancasterclaret]

ICG, who own Irish Ferries and based in Dublin, did much the same in 2006 ...

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2006/0907/80078-icg/

Fire and rehire was made illegal in Ireland after that

Not sure if its EU wide

Has to be made illegal here asap btw

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/15 ... 1414890504

Oh, could have been made into law, but was regarding as having "unreasonable consequences for business"

Not good is it?

[Lancasterclaret]

BBC article on it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916

Appears that its not affecting French workers for P & O though, who are all being kept on

Something different between French and Uk employment law at a guess

[Andreshotboots]

Just ban their boats from British ports..

[GodIsADeeJay81]

BBC article on it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916

Appears that its not affecting French workers for P & O though, who are all being kept on

Something different between French and Uk employment law at a guess

I had a quick look, fire and rehire is illegal in France.

[TheFamilyCat]

I may be wrong, and apropos of nothing, but don't P&O own Nelson Arndale (Admiral?) centre and a few other land banks like Colne Blockbusters (as was) or the CoOp building or something?

They did own the Arndale years ago but not sure if they still do. If they are losing £100m a year then surely selling that piece of prime real estate will balance the books.

[martin_p]

I had a quick look, fire and rehire is illegal in France.

Which is as good a demonstration at any that people have been gunning for the wrong target over jobs.

Appalling behaviour from P&O Ferries, I’ll certainly be avoiding them in future.

[Hipper]

How have P&O's competitors coped with labour costs?

[Hipper]

I always thought that it was the job that is redundant, so if a job is made redundant you cannot replace someone who has been sacked from it.