Victor Moses

[dsr]

Of course it's factual

It absolutley benefits teams that failed to strengthen. How does it not?

The ability to sign free agents benefits (or could benefit) any team that has a squad which is not 100% the best it could possibly be. Not just the ones that had poor windows, but all teams.

[JohnMcGreal]

I'm surprised a club like Bournemouth haven't gone in for him. He'd be a good addition for them to help get promotion over the line and it seems the Football League would be ok with it. If he wants to return to England it doesn't have to be in the PL.

[Jakubclaret]

But everyone’s got that fair equal chance if a war wasn’t going on Russian club player targets wouldn’t be a problem, it’s quite a unique incident which has been allowed to spill over into football but with BLM & taking the knee it’s hardly surprising more & more non football related issues are being permitted to take centre stage.

[daveisaclaret]

Please remember that when you argue with/reply to racists you make the board worse for everyone who uses it.

[Roosterbooster]

It’s possible by different means ancestral lines, country of birth etc to qualify for different countries in this particular case VM himself has decided to represent Nigeria on the international front everything else is secondary, he’s been chosen & he’s made that choice, it’s not uncommon if any said player if they think they’ve got better prospects enhancing a club career or themselves feel stronger allegiances to that chosen country.

Indeed. But just because someone chooses to play for a country doesn't define them as being that nationality. It's much more complicated than that. And so just because Moses was born in Nigeria, and plays for their senior team, doesn't mean he sees himself necessarily as primarily Nigerian

[Jakubclaret]

Indeed. But just because someone chooses to play for a country doesn't define them as being that nationality. It's much more complicated than that. And so just because Moses was born in Nigeria, and plays for their senior team, doesn't mean he sees himself necessarily as primarily Nigerian

That’s what I’ve been banging on about all along whilst some posters on this thread have been labelling him this that & the other, only 1 person can say where he feels he belongs & that’s victor himself.

[boyyanno]

The ability to sign free agents benefits (or could benefit) any team that has a squad which is not 100% the best it could possibly be. Not just the ones that had poor windows, but all teams.

Like I say though, what if a team has filled their squad positions already because they followed the rules as they were understood at the time? They would be disadvantaged as they would be unable to sign these players, through no fault of thier own. As it stands that is a fact.

Yes rules could be introduced to try and limit any advantage but I stand by what I said that allowing these transfers to just happen is detrimental to the integrity of the league as it stands.

[dsr]

Like I say though, what if a team has filled their squad positions already because they followed the rules as they were understood at the time? They would be disadvantaged as they would be unable to sign these players, through no fault of thier own. As it stands that is a fact.

Yes rules could be introduced to try and limit any advantage but I stand by what I said that allowing these transfers to just happen is detrimental to the integrity of the league as it stands.

I'm sure the PL could work around it. Most teams will have a vacancy in the squad, if only because of injury.

[2 Bee Holed]

Indeed. But just because someone chooses to play for a country doesn't define them as being that nationality. It's much more complicated than that. And so just because Moses was born in Nigeria, and plays for their senior team, doesn't mean he sees himself necessarily as primarily Nigerian

Oh I don't know, Ashley Barnes is definitely Austrian.



Ps I haven't read all the thread.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Please remember that when you argue with/reply to racists you make the board worse for everyone who uses it.

I just don’t understand your logic, Maxwell cornet emigrated to France at roughly the same age that Moses did, he represented France from u16-21.

So by your logic Cornet must be from France?

[daveisaclaret]

I just don’t understand your logic, Maxwell cornet emigrated to France at roughly the same age that Moses did, he represented France from u16-21.

So by your logic Cornet must be from France?

I'm not saying you're a racist and don't think you are fwiw. Aimed very much at others (who I have on ignore) who only seem to discuss football when race is involved.

I think Cornet could legitimately call France home although to be honest with you I didn't know what age he'd moved there until this exact moment.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Of course he would call France home, he lived there for most of his life.

[boyyanno]

I'm sure the PL could work around it. Most teams will have a vacancy in the squad, if only because of injury.

I'm sure they could introduce a number of rules to limit any unfairness but in some instances it still wouldn't work. You've just said "most teams", that in itself shows that you accept there is the possibility it would disproportionately effect some clubs and not others. That is compromising the integrity of the league. There are a number of factors such as squad positions being available, budgets that may have been spent (as teams undertook their transfer activity in-line with the rules at the start of the season). You can do your best to limit these as much as you want but the only way to keep the integrity of the league (as intact as it can be after all the delayed games etc) is to say a blanket no to this happening across the league. That's why I understand and agree with the Premier league on this, I don't think that's unfair do you?

[dsr]

I'm sure they could introduce a number of rules to limit any unfairness but in some instances it still wouldn't work. You've just said "most teams", that in itself shows that you accept there is the possibility it would disproportionately effect some clubs and not others. That is compromising the integrity of the league. There are a number of factors such as squad positions being available, budgets that may have been spent (as teams undertook their transfer activity in-line with the rules at the start of the season). You can do your best to limit these as much as you want but the only way to keep the integrity of the league (as intact as it can be after all the delayed games etc) is to say a blanket no to this happening across the league. That's why I understand and agree with the Premier league on this, I don't think that's unfair do you?

There are many, many ways in which the "integrity of the league" is compromised more than by a limited ban on signing free agents. Look at the fixture postponements for covid, look at the regular rearrangements fo fixtures from Saturday to Sunday to Monday, look at teams that have to play extra games because of success in other competitions, look at teams that have a more favourable fixture list and play opponents when their stars are injured, look at the vast disparity in wealth provided by rich owners, look at VAR stupidities and the way some players get a 3 match ban for offences that others get just a booking, look at the way the best refs get the "top" matches and the lesser teams get lesser referees. The PL takes no action on those things. If you were talking about the league going from 100% fair to 99.99% fair you might (I only day might) have a point. If the availability of free agents for all to sign made a significant difference, then you would have a point. But if you're objecting because the league's integrity quotient has gone from say 80.43% to 80.42%, then that isn't worth bothering with bearing in mind that what they are doing involves severe restraint of trade.

They do not ban the signing of free agents. They only ban the signing of some free agents. That is not "integrity of the league".

[Lancasterclaret]

Please remember that when you argue with/reply to racists you make the board worse for everyone who uses it.

Or don't block them in the first place

[boyyanno]

There are many, many ways in which the "integrity of the league" is compromised more than by a limited ban on signing free agents. Look at the fixture postponements for covid, look at the regular rearrangements fo fixtures from Saturday to Sunday to Monday, look at teams that have to play extra games because of success in other competitions, look at teams that have a more favourable fixture list and play opponents when their stars are injured, look at the vast disparity in wealth provided by rich owners, look at VAR stupidities and the way some players get a 3 match ban for offences that others get just a booking, look at the way the best refs get the "top" matches and the lesser teams get lesser referees. The PL takes no action on those things. If you were talking about the league going from 100% fair to 99.99% fair you might (I only day might) have a point. If the availability of free agents for all to sign made a significant difference, then you would have a point. But if you're objecting because the league's integrity quotient has gone from say 80.43% to 80.42%, then that isn't worth bothering with bearing in mind that what they are doing involves severe restraint of trade.

They do not ban the signing of free agents. They only ban the signing of some free agents. That is not "integrity of the league".

I agree that there are a lot of things that have compromised the integrity of the league, especially this season with regards to the postponed fixtures etc. But that doesn't mean that anything that further compromises it should just be accepted.

They also haven't banned "some" free agents. The players that were considered free agents under the rules that existed at the start of the season are still allowed to sign for clubs as far as I'm aware, it's the ones that were not considered free agents under the rules at the start of the season that PL clubs cannot sign.

Keeping the rules consistent for the season as a whole and not changing them part way through a season is a rational decision.

[Jakubclaret]

I find it extremely baffling the posters who say they’ve blocked/ignored other posters but seem to be aware of what the other posters are discussing, I’ve blocked a couple of posters & I don’t have a clue because no content shows so something isn’t right.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I find it extremely baffling the posters who say they’ve blocked/ignored other posters but seem to be aware of what the other posters are discussing, I’ve blocked a couple of posters & I don’t have a clue because no content shows so something isn’t right.

You can still see what a blocked user is saying if you click on their comment

[Jakubclaret]

You can still see what a blocked user is saying if you click on their comment

You can but isn’t the whole idea of blocking them not wanting to see what the poster posts, maybe it’s just me & I’m strange.

[IanMcL]

Andy Townsend pretends he's Irish.
And Danny Higginbotham played for Gibraltar....

I'm not sure this method really works

Jack Charlton's Ireland had an array of accents - mostly English. They all sang the Irish songs with real fervour and all played their hearts out. Jack was made an honorary Irishman.

He remained an English World Cup winner, all his life.

[Marney&Mee]

Jack Charlton's Ireland had an array of accents - mostly English. They all sang the Irish songs with real fervour and all played their hearts out. Jack was made an honorary Irishman.

He remained an English World Cup winner, all his life.

They even tried to claim Packie Bonner was Irish...

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Tony Cascarino the fake Irishman

[IanMcL]

They even tried to claim Packie Bonner was Irish...

And that Roy Keane!

[RingoMcCartney]

Well them Townsend is English and Higginbotham is English.
The point is it's not just as simple as where you were born or who you played for

Terry Butcher, Raheem Sterling, John Barnes, Marc Guehi, Owen Hargreaves... all born outside of England

All the above players you've mentioned were born outside the country for which they played international football. Unlike VM . So you're comparing apples with pears.

Andy Townsend tenuous claim to be Irish was that he'd once had a pint of Guinness!

Moses was born in Nigeria. To Nigerian parents. He played senior level international football for Nigeria.

If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck , it's a duck.

He's Nigerian.

[TheFamilyCat]

But everyone’s got that fair equal chance if a war wasn’t going on Russian club player targets wouldn’t be a problem, it’s quite a unique incident which has been allowed to spill over into football but with BLM & taking the knee it’s hardly surprising more & more non football related issues are being permitted to take centre stage.

A 5-second gesture before the game has started is "taking centre stage"? Really?

[KRBFC]

Moses was born in Nigeria. To Nigerian parents. He played senior level international football for Nigeria.

If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck , it's a duck.

He's Nigerian.

So Sterling is Jamaican then? so why did he chose to represent England?

[Spiral]

I'm not going to be dragged into an argument nor engage with this asinine litigation on a person's nationality (I only regrettably made a comment on the subject in response to a racist dog-whistle), and daveisaclaret is right in that we need to ignore these people, but I can't understand why the small handful of racists on here aren't permanently banned from this forum. It's always the same people. We all know RingoMcCartney drags threads through the mud with what appears to be, in my opinion, his petty fixation on race. Permanently ban him. People have been banned for less. This thread is about transfer business and the PL's decision not to allow free agents from UKR/RUS to sign. We can't really self-moderate threads (for example, as we do on the invasion thread) when offending contributors are beyond reason.

[Spiral]

I feel as though I'm a bit responsible for the direction this thread has took by being the one initially to respond to the original racist dog-whistle. I'm sorry for that, folks.

[Jakubclaret]

I'm not going to be dragged into an argument nor engage with this asinine litigation on a person's nationality (I only regrettably made a comment on the subject in response to a racist dog-whistle), and daveisaclaret is right in that we need to ignore these people, but I can't understand why the small handful of racists on here aren't permanently banned from this forum. It's always the same people. We all know RingoMcCartney drags threads through the mud with what appears to be, in my opinion, his petty fixation on race. Permanently ban him. People have been banned for less. This thread is about transfer business and the PL's decision not to allow free agents from UKR/RUS to sign. We can't really self-moderate threads (for example, as we do on the invasion thread) when offending contributors are beyond reason.

“I’m not going to get dragged into an argument nor engage” I think it’s abit late in the day for that.

[elwaclaret]

I'm not going to be dragged into an argument nor engage with this asinine litigation on a person's nationality (I only regrettably made a comment on the subject in response to a racist dog-whistle), and daveisaclaret is right in that we need to ignore these people, but I can't understand why the small handful of racists on here aren't permanently banned from this forum. It's always the same people. We all know RingoMcCartney drags threads through the mud with what appears to be, in my opinion, his petty fixation on race. Permanently ban him. People have been banned for less. This thread is about transfer business and the PL's decision not to allow free agents from UKR/RUS to sign. We can't really self-moderate threads (for example, as we do on the invasion thread) when offending contributors are beyond reason.

To be fair - we can nip most things on the invasion thread in the bud because nonsense and unsourced opinion can be quickly flagged up and removed. Racism/offensive stereotyping can be more ambiguous; for example if a poster used a racist term in the context of being a stock phrase spoken by a black comedian - does it become racist in the repeating? It is a tough call I looked at last night on a thread, fortunately the mods removed it even as I debated it in my own mind. It can be a really tough call at times. But yes there are repeat offenders who seem to glorify in causing outrage.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So Sterling is Jamaican then? so why did he chose to represent England?

Easy, he doesn't walk, talk or sound like a duck.

He does run like a Goose though
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... goose.html

[Jakubclaret]

A 5-second gesture before the game has started is "taking centre stage"? Really?

With the length somethings go on for yes, we all know about what happened with floyd & the police it can’t be reversed & this 5 second gesture isn’t making a difference, it’s run it’s course now every man & his dog are aware of the racism issues, it’s mindful to remember before the BLM bandwagon other successful anti racism initiatives were implemented & established & generally racism was minimal & isolated.

[TheFamilyCat]

With the length somethings go on for yes, we all know about what happened with floyd & the police it can’t be reversed & this 5 second gesture isn’t making a difference, it’s run it’s course now every man & his dog are aware of the racism issues, it’s mindful to remember before the BLM bandwagon other successful anti racism initiatives were implemented & established & generally racism was minimal & isolated.

But does it take centre stage on a match day over the actual match? A simple yes or no will suffice; don't need your usual, poorly punctuated ramble.

[Jakubclaret]

But does it take centre stage on a match day over the actual match? A simple yes or no will suffice; don't need your usual, poorly punctuated ramble.

It does to me because it doesn’t make sense, I could say things but I’d be straying into BLM territory & going off topic & I don’t wish to do that, so can we just respectfully agree to disagree please & stay on topic with victor Moses?

[TheFamilyCat]

It does to me because it doesn’t make sense, I could say things but I’d be straying into BLM territory & going off topic & I don’t wish to do that, so can we just respectfully agree to disagree please & stay on topic with victor Moses?

I'll take that as a no then and get back on topic.

[Jakubclaret]

I'll take that as a no then and get back on topic.

That wasn’t my answer, “it does to me because it doesn’t make any sense” that short statement doesn’t constitute a no in any shape or form or from any logical perspective!

[RingoMcCartney]

I'm not going to be dragged into an argument nor engage with this asinine litigation on a person's nationality (I only regrettably made a comment on the subject in response to a racist dog-whistle), and daveisaclaret is right in that we need to ignore these people, but I can't understand why the small handful of racists on here aren't permanently banned from this forum. It's always the same people. We all know RingoMcCartney drags threads through the mud with what appears to be, in my opinion, his petty fixation on race. Permanently ban him. People have been banned for less. This thread is about transfer business and the PL's decision not to allow free agents from UKR/RUS to sign. We can't really self-moderate threads (for example, as we do on the invasion thread) when offending contributors are beyond reason.

On this thread quote one post where I've mentioned MV's race. Just one. Stop lying.

I've simply pointed out the facts.

His parentage and their origins, where he was born and for which national team he chose to play for at senior level. He's Nigerian.

You've previously claimed that "Not a single person on this thread has suggested he is not Nigerian. Another lie that was so so easily disproved.


Instead of making groundless false accusations and calling for people to be permanently banned . Maybe you should concentrate more effort into resisting the urge to lie.

In the meantime please quote where I've mentioned the race or skin colour of MV, Alternatively, carry on displaying you inability to handle the truth.

[DCWat]

Answered this type of comparison previously. However out of courtesy....


Sterling was born in Jamaica but chose to play senior level football for England. He didn't play for the country of his birth. He clearly sees himself as English

Moses was born in Nigeria and chose to play senior level football for Nigeria. He did play for the country of his birth. He clearly sees himself as Nigerian.

Which is all I've been simply saying in this thread. There is nothing in what I've said that should offend anybody who's fair minded.

Did he clearly see himself as Nigerian or did he think that he would have more opportunities to play for Nigeria? It would seem he answered that question previously:

“I waited for the opportunity to be invited to play for the national team of Nigeria and immediately they found me worthy, I did not waste time to honour the call.

“Nigeria has always been my choice if called up and when they did I was happy.

[RingoMcCartney]

Did he clearly see himself as Nigerian or did he think that he would have more opportunities to play for Nigeria? It would seem he answered that question previously:

“I waited for the opportunity to be invited to play for the national team of Nigeria and immediately they found me worthy, I did not waste time to honour the call.

“Nigeria has always been my choice if called up and when they did I was happy.

"Always"........

[RingoMcCartney]

Only when he was overlooked for England's senior team after nearly 30 appearances & 11 goals for the England youth teams

article-2061753-0ECEF2A300000578-309_468x482.jpg

Overlooked?

Or when later considered again by England, had he already chosen to play for his "home country", the country of his birth at senior level? .....

“I waited for the opportunity to be invited to play for the national team of Nigeria and immediately they found me worthy, I did not waste time to honour the call.

“Nigeria has always been my choice if called up and when they did I was happy."

Sounds like it's entirely possible that if England , at senior level , did take a look at him, after his earlier stint in the youth set up. He'd already made his mind up to play for his home country with England , finding out that boat had already sailed.

The lad sees himself as Nigerian.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So we agree then, England overlooked him at senior level and he took the chance with Nigeria when they came.
Glad we finally got there even if it felt like wading through mud with you.

[gawthorpe_view]

So is he still not coming?
Too much bile to wade through to check back above.

[Newcastleclaret93]

So is he still not coming?
Too much bile to wade through to check back above.

No he’s not. Unless the prem completely change there stance

[Guller Bull]

Got headache.

[ClaretTony]

Nothing in according to Dyche