What changed?

[Steddyman]

We have been a million miles away from the team we were last season, despite adding a couple of strong players.

One thing that has changed in the contractual state of the Burnley manager. Prior to September 2021, Sean was on a 1 year rolling deal. In September he signed a 4 year long term deal. Does anyone think this could affect his and the teams mentality.

On a one year deal he is incentivised to do well every season in the hope of attracting a bigger club or a new lucrative deal.

On a four year deal is he incentivised to do poorly so he is sacked and gets a 4 year pay-off at 100k per week?

[Newcastleclaret93]

I will probably get slated for this but I genuinely believe we now have an owner and a manager pulling the club in opposite directions.

We have an owner that is purchasing players that are young and relatively exciting but clearly do not fit into our system.

We have a fantastic manager that is very good at getting hard working players to pool there combined talents together to be a decent team. None of the players brought in over the past 18 months fit Dyches mould at all.

Hence we seem to be getting worst even though we have spent more than we usually do.

[daveisaclaret]

The league changed, we didn't. That's the problem.

[NickBFC]

We were poor for chunks of last season too. What's changed? Old legs got older, manager refuses to adapt, lack of transfer activity under previous owners biting hard, other sides have improved, we aren't very good at nicking 1-0s here and there and we certainly haven't taken enough points from those around us.

[1989_claret]

Football playing styles have evolved and ours hasn’t.

Successful teams or even just decent teams play possession based, passing football as well as using space really well and we don’t. We try to go across the back and then forward as soon as we can with a direct ball.

Our style is out dated and we play to the strengths of our current side however, without trying to evolve our style of play we won’t know if the current group can actually play like that.

[Steddyman]

Yes I think I agree with this. One of the reasons ALK wanted a Premier League team was to develop their Ai Scout system and demonstrate to other clubs the value it could bring in sourcing new talent.

I think the value of the investments ALK have made in the U23's could serve us well in the Championship when a lot of our more talented players leave for other pastures and older players leave when their contracts end.

I do have a love / hate relationship with Sean though. When he gets them all singing from the same sheet, he is a joy to behold. But I am bored stupid with him most of the time. He doesn't seem to have a tactical brain in his head and only knows how to play one way.

[gawthorpe_view]

Our luck ran out.

As it was bound to do.

Eventually.

[dandeclaret]

You can't punch above your weight forever.

[Spiral]

I'm one of those Dyche forever types, but I can't help but notice the fight in this team has completely gone. We have these (usually unproductive) little ten-minute spells in games, which is to say, in most games we have a single ten minute spell where we look like a team, where we take the initiative and play with a bit of intensity as though to prove the fight it still there, but even the worst team on the planet can have a good ten-minute spell in a game. It seems as though every single player on the pitch, to a man, is waiting for someone else to create a spark. How many times have we come out in the second half and looked like we're up for a fight? I'd say quite a few times this season, to be honest. So why are we not starting games like this? Aside from the first bit of the second half today, the players looked totally unmotivated. It's not the first time this has happened.

Distance stats (data accurate of Feb 23rd, latest I could find), top ten in the league this season

10th place - Aarons - Norwich
9th - Romeu - Southampton
Bowen - West Ham
Jansson - Brentford
Fernandes - UTD
JWP - Southampton
Rice - WHU
Soucek - WHU
Bernardo Silva - City
Norgaard - Brentford

Not a single Burnley player in the top 10 for distance covered, for a team that has a supposed reputation of being hard working. Where has this mythical 'Dyche fitness' disappeared to?

[Jakubs Tash]

We have been a million miles away from the team we were last season, despite adding a couple of strong players.

One thing that has changed in the contractual state of the Burnley manager. Prior to September 2021, Sean was on a 1 year rolling deal. In September he signed a 4 year long term deal. Does anyone think this could affect his and the teams mentality.

On a one year deal he is incentivised to do well every season in the hope of attracting a bigger club or a new lucrative deal.

On a four year deal is he incentivised to do poorly so he is sacked and gets a 4 year pay-off at 100k per week?

Dyche hasn’t been on a one year rolling contract since about 2018/2019. He signed a 3 year contract around then, did he not?

What’s changed is that nearly every club in this league is now bank rolled by multi million or billion pound owners. The ones that aren’t will inevitably drop as the numbers become bigger and bigger.

[Goody1975]

Is that total distance covered or average?

If it's total distance, then surely the players from teams with games in hand will be at a disadvantage?

[Steddyman]

Not a single Burnley player in the top 10 for distance covered, for a team that has a supposed reputation of being hard working. Where has this mythical 'Dyche fitness' disappeared to?

Wow, I didn't know that. We've been known to have two in the top 5 before, always from midfield.

[ClaretLoup]

More like what hasn’t changed. Since McNeil emerged about three years ago now, apart from Cornet, we haven’t added any creativity or goal threat to our front six. In the meantime decline set in to our front four options, Wood, Rodrigues Vydra and Barnes. Wout has only scored once and the EPL looks too quick for him.

Next season whatever division the club is in there will have to be a complete rebuild of this whole area of the team.

[Chester Perry]

Yes I think I agree with this. One of the reasons ALK wanted a Premier League team was to develop their Ai Scout system and demonstrate to other clubs the value it could bring in sourcing new talent.

I think the value of the investments ALK have made in the U23's could serve us well in the Championship when a lot of our more talented players leave for other pastures and older players leave when their contracts end.

I do have a love / hate relationship with Sean though. When he gets them all singing from the same sheet, he is a joy to behold. But I am bored stupid with him most of the time. He doesn't seem to have a tactical brain in his head and only knows how to play one way.

is that the AiScout system they own a confirmed 7,816 Class B non voting rights shares out of 1,185,451 - there are also 1,185,451 Class A voting rights shares in distribution

I am interested for you to name their investment in the U23's particularly those that will make a difference in the Championship next season - was Helm one of their signings or was he in the long term thinking already at the club

[KRBFC]

We were shite last year too tbh, very fortunate the 3 who went down couldn't pick up points at all.

The players are older, the management has been incredibly poor this season imo, picking players out of form, persisting with the exact same system regardless of what happens, not reacting in games.

Brighton home, Leeds home, Leicester away, Everton away. There's 10 points thrown away off the top of my head by Dyche not being proactive in games, Potters subs changed the game and we didn't even react, nevermind be proactive in trying to see the game out.

Is there a reason we have to play 442 when we're winning a game with 5-10 mins to go?

Tarkowski and Taylor have been dreadful all season long, leaking goals down Taylors side all day long.

We keep whacking it long to a striker who can't header a ball, go figure

[daveisaclaret]

Yes I think I agree with this. One of the reasons ALK wanted a Premier League team was to develop their Ai Scout system and demonstrate to other clubs the value it could bring in sourcing new talent.

I think the value of the investments ALK have made in the U23's could serve us well in the Championship when a lot of our more talented players leave for other pastures and older players leave when their contracts end.

I do have a love / hate relationship with Sean though. When he gets them all singing from the same sheet, he is a joy to behold. But I am bored stupid with him most of the time. He doesn't seem to have a tactical brain in his head and only knows how to play one way.

AIScout is very clearly a grift. I hope the future of our club is in no way tied to it.

[Spiral]

Is that total distance covered or average?

If it's total distance, then surely the players from teams with games in hand will be at a disadvantage?

Total. Struggling to find a reliable source for that. The official PL site doesn't appear to track those stats, and as I said, the data was as of Feb, so I'll stand to be corrected.

[ksrclaret]

1. Loughlan’s departure and the promotion of Stone
2. Recruitment of players who don’t suit the way Dyche wants Burnley to play
3. The collective drop off in motivation in having so many players knowing they’re moving on whatever happens this summer
4. Our regulars all a year older (they were already the oldest squad)
5. The lack of an additional shite team down there (we’re one of three this season)

All of these are things that have changed between last season and this season. They’ll all be affecting things, but not sure on the proportion of each one.

[CombatClaret]

Mentality and physicality sees to have dropped a level. We've lost far too many points from winning positions, I think for a lot of our squad the game is 15minutes too long.

Either through supply or individual quality, we don't have a 10+ goal striker this season, so often this has been the difference. You get some exceptions like Pukki & Mirtrovic, but it's a fair gauge that if you have a striker getting 10+ goals, you're staying up.

It's a league of Billionaires now, not multi-millionaires. It's probably going to be the fate of a dozen teams just to bounce back and forth between leagues with varying 1-5 year stays in the top flight. I don't see how you come up and stay up now unless you do a Newcastle and get nation-state-level backing.

[CombatClaret]

Not a single Burnley player in the top 10 for distance covered, for a team that has a supposed reputation of being hard working. Where has this mythical 'Dyche fitness' disappeared to?

Am I the only person who might list George Boyd as their favorite player? And not just for his beautiful hair.

[Chester Perry]

It's a league of Billionaires now, not multi-millionaires. It's probably going to be the fate of a dozen teams just to bounce back and forth between leagues with varying 1-5 year stays in the top flight. I don't see how you come up and stay up now unless you do a Newcastle and get nation-state-level backing.

I have been saying this for what feels an awful long time now - the decisions of the impending football regulator may ensure it and that may come down to club size in the medium term which will be awful for us

[California Colner]

We were spineless
I don’t mind getting beat but please put up a fight

[RVclaret]

I have been saying this for what feels an awful long time now - the decisions of the impending football regulator may ensure it and that may come down to club size in the medium term which will be awful for us

Surely an independent regulator would be wanting to avoid a situation where it’s all about who have the richest billionaire? Surely they would want to create a more level playing field and competition.

As for the OP, a few things, Dyche isn’t blameless, that’s for sure. KRBFC highlighted quite a few games this season that we dropped points from winning positions due to poor tactical choices / inept ability to change things. For example, Brighton at home, Potter changes formation with 2 new subs, they start controlling midfield, Dyche’s sub? Bring on Ashley Barnes and continue to lump it.

In the main though, a lack of signing a central midfielder in the window has been a big factor. Look at Brentford’s Eriksen signing, he has completely transformed them, just shows how important that position is in this league.

[Loyal Supporter]

More like what hasn’t changed. Since McNeil emerged about three years ago now, apart from Cornet, we haven’t added any creativity or goal threat to our front six. In the meantime decline set in to our front four options, Wood, Rodrigues Vydra and Barnes. Wout has only scored once and the EPL looks too quick for him.

Next season whatever division the club is in there will have to be a complete rebuild of this whole area of the team.

Cornet and creativity seems to be an oxymoron at the moment. As does Weghorst and close control and heading ability. Its difficult setting into a relegation battling team looking for instant results.

[Awayfromburnley]

Coaching - something is fundamentally wrong.

We have several key players who have got worse
Taylor - he is getting caught out time and time again defensively. We can see it, why can't the coaching team

McNeill- as above but also he has lost his ability to take a man on and cross

Weghorst - started brilliantly but faded as he tries to adapt to our game

Cornet - as per Weghorst.

Tarkowski- lost some of his confidence and swagger

I think those 5 are quality players and I don't want to be appearing to criticise them, but when 5 (or more) players become worse players that isn't a form thing, it's a state of mind and coaching thing that simply hasn't been addressed and is amateurish and shameful.

[Les Lawrence]

Nothing, playing hoofball still.Stubborness not to change a system during a game when it's not working.No leadership in the team,and a few who don't seem to give a **** anymore

[beddie]

It’s the middle of the pitch that’s concerned me. We’ve somehow lost the balance, add to that a loss of confidence, injuries at key times, the failure to recruit and of course older legs are all contributors.

[Spijed]

You can't punch above your weight forever.

That's exactly it.

Next season three clubs will be relegated, like wise the the season after and the one after that and so on. Teams bigger than us WILL get relegated.

Will every single one of those teams be accused of not moving with the times?

There is also the nonsensical belief by some on here that the teams above us are too good to go down.

Trouble is with that is there is only room for 17 teams to survive each season so some of them have to drop if any teams coming up stays up.

[Stayingup]

We were spineless
I don’t mind getting beat but please put up a fight

Absolutely. With th exception of Mee and Tarkowski gone are the days of Marney and Barton punching holes in their midfield.

[Jakubclaret]

That's exactly it.

Next season three clubs will be relegated, like wise the the season after and the one after that and so on. Teams bigger than us WILL get relegated.

Will every single one of those teams be accused of not moving with the times?

There is also the nonsensical belief by some on here that the teams above us are too good to go down.

Trouble is with that is there is only room for 17 teams to survive each season so some of them have to drop if any teams coming up stays up.

You keep talking about some of the established teams gradually falling through the trapdoor like I think the way we are heading but that’s completely untrue, some of the teams you’ve mentioned previously are actually trying to break into the top half top 10 & stay there & rid themselves of mid-lower position, you seem to focus on other teams as a comfort blanket some sort of a distraction away from the basket case here. Apart from a handful of clubs everybody else are going about their business successfully with plans in place & a structured evolvement light years away from us.

[BOYSIE31]

Simple - recruitment has been awful for too long
And the most stubborn manager who has ran his coarse

[Targetman]

You keep talking about some of the established teams gradually falling through the trapdoor like I think the way we are heading but that’s completely untrue, some of the teams you’ve mentioned previously are actually trying to break into the top half top 10 & stay there & rid themselves of mid-lower position, you seem to focus on other teams as a comfort blanket some sort of a distraction away from the basket case here. Apart from a handful of clubs everybody else are going about their business successfully with plans in place & a structured evolvement light years away from us.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

You can't punch above your weight forever.

During our time ‘punching above our weight’ we’ve managed to scrape a 7th and 10th place finish.

[Spijed]

You keep talking about some of the established teams gradually falling through the trapdoor like I think the way we are heading but that’s completely untrue, some of the teams you’ve mentioned previously are actually trying to break into the top half top 10 & stay there & rid themselves of mid-lower position, you seem to focus on other teams as a comfort blanket some sort of a distraction away from the basket case here. Apart from a handful of clubs everybody else are going about their business successfully with plans in place & a structured evolvement light years away from us.

The point is they can't all break into the top half and stay there for many seasons. That's the point. There are only so many places up for grabs .

But regardless of whether Everton survive or not it shows that bigger clubs like them will struggle from time to time.

[warksclaret]

The Premier League has moved on and we simply have not in so many aspects. The top clubs (Man City & Liverpool at the top keep refreshing their squads). The lower end teams who we would normally be scrapping with us have got stronger-Southampton and Palace are two examples. Great recruitment from the lower leagues. But for me our coaching is poor. Dyche has been with this team for 10 years-some players have been with us that long too, with the majority have been here for at least 5 years, but we are playing the same formation of 10 years ago.. I suspect if someone like David Moyes joined us you would see him trying Collins, Tarks and Mee as a three at the back within a few weeks, and alternating it with 4 at the back against certain teams. We have had 10 pre seasons and we have now played 442 for virtually every game in that 10 year period. If 442 was the answer why are not PL and Championship clubs playing it. Added to that SD is never being challenged. Be interesting to see what happens post season end both on and off the pitch

[Jakubclaret]

The point is they can't all break into the top half and stay there for many seasons. That's the point. There are only so many places up for grabs .

But regardless of whether Everton survive or not it shows that bigger clubs like them will struggle from time to time.

Yes a odd 1 might go spanning a long period of time if well backed strong teams come up for sure, that’s no relevance to the regression that’s taking place here. The league I don’t think has got that much stronger we’ve got substantially weaker, orsic & will hughes I think would have been enough to see us over the line.

[tiger76]

Difficult to identify one single thing, but a combination of factors at play.

Our key players out of form, Sean's reluctance to shake things up especially from the bench, injuries at important stages of the season, the lack of our new arrivals to enhance the first XI, of the 5 summer arrivals, only Cornet & Lennon have played regularly, and made the desired impact we'd hope for, Collins is one for the future, and he's done well enough when called upon, Hennessey has performed solidly enough as a back up keeper, well Roberts has struggled due to illness and injury, and now he's finally getting a run he looks out of his depth at this level.

And after a promising first few games, our January capture Weghorst is looking increasingly frustrated at the lack of service, and TBH I can't say I blame him.

This allied to the fact that yet again we failed to recruit in the key CM area, plus the squad all lacking the drive and energy they once had, mainly due to many being OOC, and SD seemingly unable to motivate them as he once could, have all contributed to why we're heading to the Championship at a rate of knots.

[pushpinpussy]

i think the squad we have unfortunately has already peaked and we are now on the downward spiral. this should have been fixed earlier by investing in younger players. however, if we go down then a reset might do us good. I still trust in Dyche.

[LawsCanalJump]

As soon as Cornet/weghorst came in, the style should of changed. Getting the most out of our best players is key.
Pointless hoofs up to both of them is useless

Its either 442 or 451 against city.

We didnt sign the CM we desperately needed

To me it just looks totally bereft of any ideas of how to get into attacking positions.

[Spijed]

The Premier League has moved on and we simply have not in so many aspects. The top clubs (Man City & Liverpool at the top keep refreshing their squads). The lower end teams who we would normally be scrapping with us have got stronger-Southampton and Palace are two examples. Great recruitment from the lower leagues. But for me our coaching is poor. Dyche has been with this team for 10 years-some players have been with us that long too, with the majority have been here for at least 5 years, but we are playing the same formation of 10 years ago.. I suspect if someone like David Moyes joined us you would see him trying Collins, Tarks and Mee as a three at the back within a few weeks, and alternating it with 4 at the back against certain teams. We have had 10 pre seasons and we have now played 442 for virtually every game in that 10 year period. If 442 was the answer why are not PL and Championship clubs playing it. Added to that SD is never being challenged. Be interesting to see what happens post season end both on and off the pitch

But the point is if even if those teams above us are refreshing their squads then some of them will still get relegated in the not too distant future, simply due to the weight of numbers. We can't stay in the Prem for ever.

[claretgimmer]

IMO Dyche will be judged at the end of this season when if what I feel is the inevitable relegation happens who he keeps and if he decides to give some of our better U23`s a chance to prove themselves at Championship level.He needs to revisit our coaching and tactics, we need to keep a degree of experience but if he re-signs most of our overaged, over rated, over paid has been journeymen then again IMO he would have to go.

[Elizabeth]

To deal with the question at hand you have to look at our performance on the field and why we have been in the bottom 3 all season. Focusing on other things such as the running of the PL and the cycle of relegation is totally the wrong way to look at it.

I am firmly of the opinion that with our playing resources this year we should be higher up the table.

It is how they have been used that has left us clinging on to our PL status by a thread.

I make this claim while fully of the opinion that our midfield players are arguably the poorest in the division. To play Lennon, Cork, Westwood and McNeill together is a poor managerial choice, regardless of whether it is against Man City or not. It is a combination of ageing , negative and dispirited players that is basically useless offensively.

Dyche's strengths such as loyalty and belief in a rigid team shape have become his weaknesses.

Whatever Dyche did to get the players motivated for the week we got 7 points from 9 he needs to do again for every game from now until the end of the season .

I think he has lost the faith of many Clarets fans as the season has worn on and this has been the biggest change of mood at the club from a fans prospective since that first difficult 6 months of his tenure while he was transforming the team.

[Murger]

Regardless of which division we are in, I think Dyches time is up.

[Jakubclaret]

When you’ve pretty much engineered a contract which makes you virtually unsackable due to the finances involved executing that course of action, you are left with not many choices other than persevering with the same thing & somehow hoping it comes good.

[jojomk1]

Dyche's strengths such as loyalty and belief in a rigid team shape have become his weaknesses.

Whatever Dyche did to get the players motivated for the week we got 7 points from 9 he needs to do again for every game from now until the end of the season .

A wild guess Elizabeth
He was almost forced to play Cork and Brownhill as a central midfield pair for those three games
That pairing has never been seen since
Beggars belief that you get on a decent run but don't stick with the same team

[Elizabeth]

A wild guess Elizabeth
He was almost forced to play Cork and Brownhill as a central midfield pair for those three games
That pairing has never been seen since
Beggars belief that you get on a decent run but don't stick with the same team

I hope we don't look back on those games as ' That Week'

[ClaretPete001]

I certainly do not think the team is good enough to stay in the Premiership. The midfield does not have the legs for the press and we no longer have two forwards scoring 20 or so goals a season between them.

I think that what has happened is the team has got older and we haven't been able to buy better players than the ones we have since 2017/18.
We also took the decision not to invest in 20/21, which I think was the final nail in the coffin.

A strategy of caution by the former owners is well suited to a yo yo team but after 6 years in the Premiership it starts to become a serious problem because the investment in new players is not there as the costs of being in the Premiership accrue. Had Gibson and Vydra worked out maybe things would have been different but the margins are that tight for teams who are at the bottom of the spending pile.

The new owners have only managed a net spend of £5 million since they arrived and overall we've only spent about £12 million in the last 3 years. Simply not enough.

Blaming Sean Dyche seems absurd to me when confronted with the facts. No manager could maintain a Premiership team on a spend of £12 million over 3 seasons. Kevin De Bruyne wouldn't even get out of bed for that .....!

[Quickenthetempo]

I certainly do not think the team is good enough to stay in the Premiership. The midfield does not have the legs for the press and we no longer have two forwards scoring 20 or so goals a season between them.

I think that what has happened is the team has got older and we haven't been able to buy better players than the ones we have since 2017/18.
We also took the decision not to invest in 20/21, which I think was the final nail in the coffin.

A strategy of caution by the former owners is well suited to a yo yo team but after 6 years in the Premiership it starts to become a serious problem because the investment in new players is not there as the costs of being in the Premiership accrue. Had Gibson and Vydra worked out maybe things would have been different but the margins are that tight for teams who are at the bottom of the spending pile.

The new owners have only managed a net spend of £5 million since they arrived and overall we've only spent about £12 million in the last 3 years. Simply not enough.

Blaming Sean Dyche seems absurd to me when confronted with the facts. No manager could maintain a Premiership team on a spend of £12 million over 3 seasons. Kevin De Bruyne wouldn't even get out of bed for that .....!

Pete, we have been through this.

League

[ClaretPete001]

Pete, we have been through this.

League

Apologies Quicken, I struggle to care that much but if it bothers you I will have to try much harder.

[Shaggy]

Regardless of which division we are in, I think Dyches time is up.

Hopefully he’s gone at the end of the season. His time has been up for a while now.