Burnley possession ranking
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Burnley possession ranking
That's abysmal reading
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
Small margins.
Re: Burnley possession ranking
We're still learning.
Re: Burnley possession ranking
Hearts and minds
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
Definition of consistency
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
Playing as though football hasn't evolved the last thirty years. We've been doing that since Dyche arrived, to be honest, but at least the $hithouse 'get stuck in' attitude borrowed from the 80's helped us produce results because we were usually the cheeky b@stards who were murder to play against and who found a way to win. That mindset seems to have disappeared for more than a season now. Afraid to even attempt to take any initiative in most games. We sit and wait for the inevitable, and heads drop too easily. I'm dreading Everton, honestly.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
Are they some of the ‘details’ that Sean refers to that we need to iron out?
Re: Burnley possession ranking
Wow,consistent stats like that deserve a massive contract for the manager and a long term deal. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
People say you can make stats look however you want.....I challenge anyone to put a good spin on that one.
Pretty startling that one.
Pretty startling that one.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
Must be Garlicks fault obviously
Re: Burnley possession ranking
Spijed willalboclaret wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:33 amPeople say you can make stats look however you want.....I challenge anyone to put a good spin on that one.
Pretty startling that one.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
And people wonder why a promising young player like McNeil is going backwards.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
The fact that no investment into the playing squad left Dyche with the same players who are incapable of playing any other way and now have aged. That of course has nothing to do with Garlck. The buyout which has left the club in financial dire straits has nothing to do with Garliick. Mike Garliick has put a high explosive time bomg under the club and got out of the way
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
This is why we need relegation to happen. If we stay up by some miracle then nothing will change.
We need a complete overhaul in terms of squad, style and management for the long term benefit of the club.
We need a complete overhaul in terms of squad, style and management for the long term benefit of the club.
Re: Burnley possession ranking
you are seriously blaming Mike Garlick for us playing like a non-league team?gtclaret wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:29 amThe fact that no investment into the playing squad left Dyche with the same players who are incapable of playing any other way and now have aged. That of course has nothing to do with Garlck. The buyout which has left the club in financial dire straits has nothing to do with Garliick. Mike Garliick has put a high explosive time bomg under the club and got out of the way
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
The fact we are 98th in each category is highly suspect
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
Huge indictment.
It’s was stale, now just a downward trajectory.
Dyche’s time is up- it’s been 10 years and he hasn’t evolved in the slightest.
Fantastic man manager but extremely questionable tactically; both in setting the team up and in game changes.
I’d probably keep him if we went down but the premier league is a different kettle of fish these days - we need a more progressive manager
It’s was stale, now just a downward trajectory.
Dyche’s time is up- it’s been 10 years and he hasn’t evolved in the slightest.
Fantastic man manager but extremely questionable tactically; both in setting the team up and in game changes.
I’d probably keep him if we went down but the premier league is a different kettle of fish these days - we need a more progressive manager
Re: Burnley possession ranking
The only way is up those tables. Surely that's a positive!alboclaret wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:33 amPeople say you can make stats look however you want.....I challenge anyone to put a good spin on that one.
Pretty startling that one.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
Maybe now we know why a top club, or even lower, has never come in for him. He also knows if he goes to another club and hits a bad run he will be out instantly
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
https://www.whoscored.com/Statistics
All the stats are available here, the above snapshop is very selective to push an agenda.
All the stats are available here, the above snapshop is very selective to push an agenda.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
We've belied those figures on occasions this season, but not in the fixtures that matter.
I think the Newcastle and Leeds performances were pitiful, under the circumstances, and after Brentford I think the players know the game is up.
Everton only 6 points away all season, but I'm expecting to get beat tonight, sadly.
If relegation is inevitable, then we have to make the most of it to rebuild the squad. We carry too many players whose best years are behind them, they will always be legends for what they've done for us, but it's time to move on. We need to blood the youngsters who are up for the fight, and find the one or two nuggets that we can rebuild the team around.
I think the Newcastle and Leeds performances were pitiful, under the circumstances, and after Brentford I think the players know the game is up.
Everton only 6 points away all season, but I'm expecting to get beat tonight, sadly.
If relegation is inevitable, then we have to make the most of it to rebuild the squad. We carry too many players whose best years are behind them, they will always be legends for what they've done for us, but it's time to move on. We need to blood the youngsters who are up for the fight, and find the one or two nuggets that we can rebuild the team around.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
We’ve won under 10 league games in 15 months.
There aren’t going to be many statistical records that we stack up positively against.
There aren’t going to be many statistical records that we stack up positively against.
Re: Burnley possession ranking
That’s unbelievable.
I knew the way we play was absolutely horrific but even I didn’t think it was that bad. There is no defending that.
I knew the way we play was absolutely horrific but even I didn’t think it was that bad. There is no defending that.
Re: Burnley possession ranking
But apparently there are no other managers around who’d be able to do a better job…
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
It's really poor reading - there's been a very clear regression in our play over the last couple of seasons or so and it needs sorting whatever league we're in.
Re: Burnley possession ranking
...and as we know, no players in the whole of world football who would improve us assuming they'd even want to come to play for us for 30k a week.
I've used the seat-swap period to move to the back of the JM Upper tier which should mean I can admire our looping defence-to-channel hopeful high balls without straining my neck too much next season.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
The problem is although Sean Dyche did well in the early day's this problem has been instilled by him, unless he goes back to the tactics he used to take us into the prem in the first place "ref Ashley barnes goal v Wigan" then he's time is up, he has talked on several occasions for quite some time about overthinking thing's, it's exactly what he's doing as far as I see it with regards to tactics etc. He himself has said only this week that he simply wants he's player's to kick the ball in the net, and has stated that it's not rocket science as such, but throughout this season at least he's tactics have been nothing else but to defend, as I have said on other threads recently, he has to allow he's strikers to strike and he's defenders to defend, in other words not coach he's strikers to defend first, their there to score goals fgs, so stop putting pressure on them to defend first, he's defender's are there to do that but are clearly not doing their job. Either way relegated /survive dyche has to change the way he's thinking.claret2018 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:34 amThis is why we need relegation to happen. If we stay up by some miracle then nothing will change.
We need a complete overhaul in terms of squad, style and management for the long term benefit of the club.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
The biggest myth regarding Burnley fans this. Along with players being too good for us, and us not being able to compete. With such defeatist attitudes among our fan base, who needs opponents?
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
I’m honestly bored of the tactics (or lack of). I’d rather we had a fresh approach. I’m going on tonight, but I’ve had to psyche myself up to go rather than itching to get on. Another inept performance and I’m done.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
My take on it is that we have let leads slip and lost or drawn. We have brought two forwards in who have sadly only briefly shone and on top of that we have a midfield who have really lost their spark.
All in all disappointing.
All in all disappointing.
Re: Burnley possession ranking
Not surprised at all
Should have gone 18 months ago
Should have gone 18 months ago
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
I reckon our fans must be some of the least ambitious in the countrygandhisflipflop wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:37 amThe biggest myth regarding Burnley fans this. Along with players being too good for us, and us not being able to compete. With such defeatist attitudes among our fan base, who needs opponents?
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
I would rather watch Burnley, always aiming for chance creation, rather than Brighton, for example, who bore the pants off you.
Yes we give the ball away too much, however. There are also times when we penetrate with excellent, swift passing.
Up the Clarets
Yes we give the ball away too much, however. There are also times when we penetrate with excellent, swift passing.
Up the Clarets
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
We’ve needed a player to carry the ball out of defence and set up passing opportunities.
Re: Burnley possession ranking
Each to their own but I’d swap Brighton’s style of football for ours tomorrow without thinking. Then again I prefer football played on the deck and seeing my team pass to each other.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
We did Ian, at times we could be devastating but those times have gone, or so it would appear. Age brings decline and we need young hearts and legs.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
As far as I can see, only 1 team in those top 5 Leagues has won less games than us this season ; Genoa in Italy with 2.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
It’s the opposite side of the same coin. But I’d take Brighton’s football over ours. I can’t think of a single attack minded player in dyches time who has improved.
Cornet - started like a train, gone backwards
Mcneil - used to take players on - gone backwards
Weghorst - don’t play to his strengths
Lennon - had a brief flurry in recent times but has he suddenly forgot how to beat a man?
Boyd - turned into a workhorse
Hendrick - likewise
You could argue that Gray was one player who flourished under Dyche but even his performances went backwards eventually.
Re: Burnley possession ranking
The only thing that would shock me about those stats is if they were much different for the season we finished 7th, for example.
As for style, I admire the way Athletico Madrid set out to p*ss off the opposition with their pragmatic way of playing.
Obviously with players technically on another level to what we have but it secured them the league title and they take no prisoners. There's always something enjoyable about being the underdog and perhaps our methods are not what they were.
As for style, I admire the way Athletico Madrid set out to p*ss off the opposition with their pragmatic way of playing.
Obviously with players technically on another level to what we have but it secured them the league title and they take no prisoners. There's always something enjoyable about being the underdog and perhaps our methods are not what they were.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
I'd expect them to be significantly different. That team had Defour and Cork (at his peak) in the centre of midfield whose ball retention was light years better than Westwood and Brownhill, and generally was technically vastly superior to the current team. This team wouldn't try to score the 23 pass goal at Everton and if it did, it wouldn't succeed.Spijed wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:37 amThe only thing that would shock me about those stats is if they were much different for the season we finished 7th, for example.
As for style, I admire the way Athletico Madrid set out to p*ss off the opposition with their pragmatic way of playing.
Obviously with players technically on another level to what we have but it secured them the league title and they take no prisoners. There's always something enjoyable about being the underdog and perhaps our methods are not what they were.
Gradually, in the intervening time our respect for the importance of keeping the ball and manipulating it has declined, and we've morphed into what was always the stereotype of Burnley - but which until relatively recently, wasn't a particularly fair stereotype. Now, it undoubtedly is unfortunately, and our decline in league position broadly tracks that evolution.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
According to the PL stats, more passes, more goals.claretspice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:50 amI'd expect them to be significantly different. That team had Defour and Cork (at his peak) in the centre of midfield whose ball retention was light years better than Westwood and Brownhill, and generally was technically vastly superior to the current team. This team wouldn't try to score the 23 pass goal at Everton and if it did, it wouldn't succeed.
Gradually, in the intervening time our respect for the importance of keeping the ball and manipulating it has declined, and we've morphed into what was always the stereotype of Burnley - but which until relatively recently, wasn't a particularly fair stereotype. Now, it undoubtedly is unfortunately, and our decline in league position broadly tracks that evolution.
Passing accuracy isn't massively different, nor shot accuracy.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
We've had a decline that's for sure but largely the sentiment on the thread is not supported by the evidence.claretspice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:50 amI'd expect them to be significantly different. That team had Defour and Cork (at his peak) in the centre of midfield whose ball retention was light years better than Westwood and Brownhill, and generally was technically vastly superior to the current team. This team wouldn't try to score the 23 pass goal at Everton and if it did, it wouldn't succeed.
Gradually, in the intervening time our respect for the importance of keeping the ball and manipulating it has declined, and we've morphed into what was always the stereotype of Burnley - but which until relatively recently, wasn't a particularly fair stereotype. Now, it undoubtedly is unfortunately, and our decline in league position broadly tracks that evolution.
We beat Liverpool quite comfortably with 20 per cent possession and the following midfield with Boyd, Marney Defour (Substituted for Berg Gudmundsson after 56'minutes) and Arfield.
All good quality players made very effective in a system that suited them. Quite simply they ran more and tackled harder than anyone else.
Every one is raving about Diego Simeone for being a modern smart coach when he sits in and stops City from playing but we get the type of stuff above about Sean Dyche.
The problem is, the squad is ageing and for whatever reason we haven't been able to find the players to replace the Westwood's, Corks and Barnes that have made the system work.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
A lot better possession in 17/18 which is I think a key stat that reflects the difference in both standard of football and league position from then to nowGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:07 pmAccording to the PL stats, more passes, more goals.
Passing accuracy isn't massively different, nor shot accuracy.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
My issue isn't so much that the system doesn't work, it's more that when it's clearly not working we are absolutely devoid of ideas to change it or even attempt to try something else. We must be the easiest team in the Premier to prepare to play against. You know exactly what we are going to do and you know that we won't change it up.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
That is indeed a significant part of the problem. But the fact we've become less good on the ball is demonstrable. That season we finished 7th, Jack Cork made an average of 42 passes a game, and made more than 80% of them successfully. Defour's were even better. Cork's own stats this season are that he makes 23 a game and only 74% successfully, whilst Westwood and Brownhill are in the mid-70s whilst making 31 and 40 a game respectively. So we're passing the ball through midfield less, and doing so less accurately.ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:11 pmWe've had a decline that's for sure but largely the sentiment on the thread is not supported by the evidence.
We beat Liverpool quite comfortably with 20 per cent possession and the following midfield with Boyd, Marney Defour (Substituted for Berg Gudmundsson after 56'minutes) and Arfield.
All good quality players made very effective in a system that suited them. Quite simply they ran more and tackled harder than anyone else.
Every one is raving about Diego Simeone for being a modern smart coach when he sits in and stops City from playing but we get the type of stuff above about Sean Dyche.
The problem is, the squad is ageing and for whatever reason we haven't been able to find the players to replace the Westwood's, Corks and Barnes that have made the system work.
Whilst it is true that we beat Liverpool with 20% of the ball, firstly that's to some extent an exception which proves the rule, and secondly even within that 20% it's what you do with it. With Defour in the team, we had an ability that all Dyche's best teams have had - someone in midfield who can hold the ball for a second under pressure, and find an easy pass to relieve pressure. First he had Dave Jones, then he had Barton, then he had Defour, then he had Cork. The best of his teams had 2 of them in tandem. Now we line up without a single player who can do that job (Cork's the best but he's failing). That's had a huge impact on our ability to manipulate the ball, absorb pressure and build constructive attacks.
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:35 amIt’s the opposite side of the same coin. But I’d take Brighton’s football over ours. I can’t think of a single attack minded player in dyches time who has improved.
Cornet - started like a train, gone backwards
Mcneil - used to take players on - gone backwards
Weghorst - don’t play to his strengths
Lennon - had a brief flurry in recent times but has he suddenly forgot how to beat a man?
Boyd - turned into a workhorse
Hendrick - likewise
You could argue that Gray was one player who flourished under Dyche but even his performances went backwards eventually.
Trippier? Chris Wood? Ashley Barnes pre injury?
As for Gray - all players performances go backwards eventually.... he moved to other clubs and hasn't gone forward has he?
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Re: Burnley possession ranking
What do people expect from a team of hasbeens, never hasbeens , and few makeweight champ players ? Personally I believe Dyche has worked miracles with the utter rubbish we’ve been able to bring in due to a grotesque lack of funds and inability to pay the preposterous wages good players expect .