Weghorst

[arise_sir_charge]

I’ll bet that Wout will finish this season with more goals than Chris Wood.

He’s excellent when he gets the ball into his feet and whilst he may never be prolific, if we can get the right players in and around him he could be outstanding for us and change the dynamic of the team completely. The only issue is we don’t necessarily have those players right now.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I’ll bet that Wout will finish this season with more goals than Chris Wood.

He’s excellent when he gets the ball into his feet and whilst he may never be prolific, if we can get the right players in and around him he could be outstanding for us and change the dynamic of the team completely. The only issue is we don’t necessarily have those players right now.

He’s clearly got some technical ability, but I don’t think he gets in our most effective 11. Time for him to be benched and get back to what makes us effective. I would start either Barnes or Vydra until the end of the season.

[arise_sir_charge]

Barnes is way past it.

A combination of 2 from WW, JR and MV is the way to go between now and May.

[shanghaiclaret]

I don't understand why our coach brought him in, if he isn't going to play the ball to his strengths.

For me we play WW and Vydra and play the ball on the floor

[Newcastleclaret93]

Barnes is way past it.

A combination of 2 from WW, JR and MV is the way to go between now and May.

Barnes can still act as a focal point. Let’s be realistic we haven’t got the ability to play the ball to feet on regular basis as some want us to. So the majority of our balls into the forwards will be long balls, Weghorst has proven this just isn’t his game. Barnes could still act as the target man.

However I agree, my personal choice would Vydra and Jay up top.

[RVclaret]

I don't understand why our coach brought him in, if he isn't going to play the ball to his strengths.

For me we play WW and Vydra and play the ball on the floor

I think you’ve got to remember we’d just lost our main striker, with seemingly very few targets lined up, and faced challenges finding anyone at all. Weghorst has been prolific in Germany, playing Champions League this year and gets called up by Holland. Add to that he was available at £12m and it seems a no brainer. Obviously he’s a different type of player than we are used to, let’s just hope we somehow manage to stop up and sign some ball playing midfielders. He’ll benefit from a full pre season, as will Cornet.

[Burnley Ace]

He’s not the man to just jump up and flick the ball on in the hope his partner will get on to it. He tries to control the ball and pass or lay it off. It’s a change from what we are used to.

[DanH90]

Yes one player can score goals in this league and the other is yet to be seen.

Weghorst is far too slow he’s never going to score regularly in this league.

Don’t know where you’ve got this slow thing from, but you keep banging on about it.
A couple of occasions I saw him closing a defender or the keeper down and he looked definitely faster than Wood.
Certainly not quick (which he doesn’t need to be) but not slow.

Also, I posted a thread on Saturday about Wout, and it’s so nice to see there are actually some Burnley fans out there who have some semblance of footballing understanding as they can see what a good player he is. We just don’t utilise him well at the moment as our midfield can’t pass a football.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Don’t know where you’ve got this slow thing from, but you keep banging on about it.
A couple of occasions I saw him closing a defender or the keeper down and he looked definitely faster than Wood.
Certainly not quick (which he doesn’t need to be) but not slow.

Also, I posted a thread on Saturday about Wout, and it’s so nice to see there are actually some Burnley fans out there who have some semblance of footballing understanding as they can see what a good player he is. We just don’t utilise him well at the moment as our midfield can’t pass a football.

I think everyone understands what he is good at, unfortunately it’s the one thing we are bad at as a squad.

I believe the point is more that he is not effective for us.

He is by far the slowest striker I have ever seen. Genuinely think Peter crouch was quicker.

[dandeclaret]

Ever ever?

Or ever in the last 6 years in the premier league?

[Hipper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L0eaSXsq4c

He took two players to the near post so giving space for Jay to score that second. Good work!

[Jakubclaret]

Barnes can still act as a focal point. Let’s be realistic we haven’t got the ability to play the ball to feet on regular basis as some want us to. So the majority of our balls into the forwards will be long balls, Weghorst has proven this just isn’t his game. Barnes could still act as the target man.

However I agree, my personal choice would Vydra and Jay up top.

Jay & vydra are our most effective 2, there’s nothing with benching WW just because he’s arrived here with a reputation & a sizeable fee shouldn’t make him an automatic starter, I’d let him sit a few games out to see if he bucks his ideas up.

[Colburn_Claret]

I think everyone understands what he is good at, unfortunately it’s the one thing we are bad at as a squad.

I believe the point is more that he is not effective for us.

He is by far the slowest striker I have ever seen. Genuinely think Peter crouch was quicker.

No need to change Wout, change the team, or rather change the tactics. Why pump it in the air, when he wants it to feet. When he gets it to feet he had no one close enough to play off.
We showed at Brighton, when we do get it right we can beat most teams in this league, but hoofball, and failing to get numbers in the box have really hurt us this season.
If we are going to stay up then we have to ditch the negative football and play a hell of a lot more proactive.

[RVclaret]

No need to change Wout, change the team, or rather change the tactics. Why pump it in the air, when he wants it to feet. When he gets it to feet he had no one close enough to play off.
We showed at Brighton, when we do get it right we can beat most teams in this league, but hoofball, and failing to get numbers in the box have really hurt us this season.
If we are going to stay up then we have to ditch the negative football and play a hell of a lot more proactive.

I think Cork improves our ball retention, particularly passing it on the floor. The current midfield two aren’t good enough to do it, that’s why we resort to going direct. No chance Dyche changes it though.

[Newcastleclaret93]

No need to change Wout, change the team, or rather change the tactics. Why pump it in the air, when he wants it to feet. When he gets it to feet he had no one close enough to play off.
We showed at Brighton, when we do get it right we can beat most teams in this league, but hoofball, and failing to get numbers in the box have really hurt us this season.
If we are going to stay up then we have to ditch the negative football and play a hell of a lot more proactive.

That’s the point I’m making though, yes we can play football on the deck once in a while but we can’t do it consistently to make Weghorst effective. Right now we need to work with what we have and play the most effective football we can until the end of the season.

I think the team that finished the game gives us that best shot. Jay is relatively handy in the air and Vydra can stretch the defence to allow Cornet so space.

[Colburn_Claret]

That’s the point I’m making though, yes we can play football on the deck once in a while but we can’t do it consistently to make Weghorst effective. Right now we need to work with what we have and play the most effective football we can until the end of the season.

I think the team that finished the game gives us that best shot. Jay is relatively handy in the air and Vydra can stretch the defence to allow Cornet so space.

I understand your reasoning, but none of our players are consistent enough to justify a solid starting spot. Dropping Wout, and playing the way we've always played, would just lead us to the same vulnerability we've been showing most of the season. Creating very little, then conceding late when there's no time to do anything about it.
We are far better on the front foot, and if that leaves us slightly more open in defence well this season has shown its a chance worth taking.

[boyyanno]

I think everyone understands what he is good at, unfortunately it’s the one thing we are bad at as a squad.

I believe the point is more that he is not effective for us.

He is by far the slowest striker I have ever seen. Genuinely think Peter crouch was quicker.

Did you ever have the pleasure of watching Chris Iwelumo? Or before that Gifton Noel Williams?

[Elizabeth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L0eaSXsq4c

He took two players to the near post so giving space for Jay to score that second. Good work!

Those drives into the box by Taylor and Collins will encourage Weghorst that there will be goals to come for him.

Cornet and Lennon's great defensive work should be acknowledged here as it allows defenders that bit more freedom and belief to create chances for the strikers.

[Colburn_Claret]

I think Cork improves our ball retention, particularly passing it on the floor. The current midfield two aren’t good enough to do it, that’s why we resort to going direct. No chance Dyche changes it though.

Jack has been impressive recently, certainly the pick of the midfield, a bigger shock is how far off Westy is. Westwood has been our main man for the last few years, but for whatever reason it's been a poor season, by his own standards.
We've known for a long time that Midfield is our weak spot, but whoever we pick we have to get the ball on the deck, wide men going for the byline, and bodies in the box.
If we return to type against Norwich we'll get beat. We'll be the wrong side of those fine margins yet again.

[jos]

He reminds me of Peter Crouch the way he looks ungainly on the ball, but usually comes away from tackles with the ball.

[jojomk1]

I don't understand why our coach brought him in, if he isn't going to play the ball to his strengths.

For me we play WW and Vydra and play the ball on the floor

1. Not sure WW or Cornet were brought in by our "Coach" - more likely a recruitment team where Dyche does not have as much control

2. Hoofball will continue whilst we have such a weak central midfield

[Newcastleclaret93]

Jack has been impressive recently, certainly the pick of the midfield, a bigger shock is how far off Westy is. Westwood has been our main man for the last few years, but for whatever reason it's been a poor season, by his own standards.
We've known for a long time that Midfield is our weak spot, but whoever we pick we have to get the ball on the deck, wide men going for the byline, and bodies in the box.
If we return to type against Norwich we'll get beat. We'll be the wrong side of those fine margins yet again.

I just don’t get why Westy is getting slated again after last nights game.

Look at the stats between him and Brownhill and tell me who had the better game. If you went off player ratings you would think Brownhill played well.

59% pass completion at this level is absolutely dire.

[arise_sir_charge]

It is but Westwood was terrible regardless of his stats.

[Nipples]

We need to play to his strengths, i.e to his feet so he can link up play. And we haven't created a single good cance for him since Palace. Was a moemnt last night when Collins should've cut it back and he had a tap in. He'll come good.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It is but Westwood was terrible regardless of his stats.

I would say Westwood was ok. Terrible is a bit harsh, he had a good pass completion rate, got around the pitch well, had a few shots and created the second most chances from open play.

If anything Brownhills game should be criticised

[Billy Balfour]

On a night that we get a real shot in the arm for our survival chances, some people need to find some negatives

Aye, and some of them don't go anywhere near Turf Moor. Armchair angry shut-ins - who view the world through a football forum. Still, I suppose it stops them from shouting at random folk in the street.

[Colburn_Claret]

I just don’t get why Westy is getting slated again after last nights game.

Look at the stats between him and Brownhill and tell me who had the better game. If you went off player ratings you would think Brownhill played well.

59% pass completion at this level is absolutely dire.

It isn't a case of just last night, it's the season, and we had our best run when Brownhill and Cork were in the middle. It isn't just about individuals either, it's about partnerships, and Brownhill and Westwood who I both like, don't seem to click together.
I don't mind who plays there, so long as they try and keep the ball down and pass to feet. Westy is the far more likely to hoof it imo.

[Guller Bull]

If we continue to play like we did with Goal 2 and 3 last night i.e down the flank with a ball back in then Weghorst will score a hatful. This is when we are at our best and always has been.

It's also where Dwight is at his best when him and Taylor overlap and deliver quality balls in. It was good for Wood and it will likewise be good for Wout.

Unfortunately we seem to rely on Franz Tarkowski playing that long diagonal which hardly ever sticks.

[KRBFC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L0eaSXsq4c

He took two players to the near post so giving space for Jay to score that second. Good work!

He’s a 6 yard fox in the box but absolutely nothing is falling to him. He’s come off there again for what? The third game In a row without a sniff at goal not even an angry swing of the boot

[Newcastleclaret93]

He’s a 6 yard fox in the box but absolutely nothing is falling to him. He’s come off there again for what? The third game In a row without a sniff at goal not even an angry swing of the boot

Isn’t the stat something like in the last 6 games Weghorst has managed 4 shots with none on target.

To me that says he’s not getting into the right positions as our other forwards are at least having shots. Westwood had 3 alone in the game last night.

[RVclaret]

Isn’t the stat something like in the last 6 games Weghorst has managed 4 shots with none on target.

To me that says he’s not getting into the right positions as our other forwards are at least having shots. Westwood had 3 alone in the game last night.

Tbf he dragged a few players towards the front post for Jays goal, that created the small space to pick him out. Then if Collins squares that chance when he shot he’s free for a tap in.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Tbf he dragged a few players towards the front post for Jays goal, that created the small space to pick him out. Then if Collins squares that chance when he shot he’s free for a tap in.

Think your clutching at straws there if I’m honest. Clearly a good footballer but doesn’t suit us at all. Maybe next year if we stay up and get a Defour Type in.

[dibraidio]

Struck me that there were a lot of hopeful balls up to Wout and there was rarely anyone up there with him particularly in the first half. A bit of a thankless task and definitely not playing to his strengths. When there were players around him he did ok bringing balls down with his back to goal and laying it off with simple passes to players moving forward.

Instrumental in taking two defenders towards the front post leaving the space for Jay to score. Could easily have had an assist for the chance that he created for Cornet on 78 minutes.

There were a lot of people criticising Vydra last season because he stretches the team into more advances positions, it doesn't match our framework, playing Wout does. As always there are plenty of people who think that we'd be better off playing the players who aren't on the pitch but I'm sure Sean will look at the stats and see that Wout put a real shift in. I'm sure that he will get goals if he gets the right service.

[KRBFC]

Isn’t the stat something like in the last 6 games Weghorst has managed 4 shots with none on target.

To me that says he’s not getting into the right positions as our other forwards are at least having shots. Westwood had 3 alone in the game last night.

Jay Rod didn't have a shot yday aside from the goal, 3 times Weghorst was alive in the box for a cutback and the ball never came. Strikers need service, he's getting non. At the minute he's working his absolute arse off for the team and the ball just isn't falling to him in the box.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Jay Rod didn't have a shot yday aside from the goal, 3 times Weghorst was alive in the box for a cutback and the ball never came. Strikers need service, he's getting non. At the minute he's working his absolute arse off for the team and the ball just isn't falling to him in the box.

He was going mad at Collins when he got subbed for not cutting the ball back to him.

[RVclaret]

He was going mad at Collins when he got subbed for not cutting the ball back to him.

Didn’t see that but wouldn’t surprise me. It was such an easy cut back. Shows how eager he is to be scoring though.

[KRBFC]

He was going mad at Collins when he got subbed for not cutting the ball back to him.

Just needs the ball to drop to him off a defenders arse for him to smash it in, the rest of his game has been superb imo, running his absolute nuts off, the ball sticks to him weirdly, like he wriggles away with the ball when he shouldn't. I thought he was top draw at Palace, didn't lose the ball once, hit the target with header from a corner and stuck away his only other chance (but Jay was marginally offside).

[Newcastleclaret93]

Jay Rod didn't have a shot yday aside from the goal, 3 times Weghorst was alive in the box for a cutback and the ball never came. Strikers need service, he's getting non. At the minute he's working his absolute arse off for the team and the ball just isn't falling to him in the box.

Jay had two shots yesterday.

Strikers need service but they also need to make space and be in the right areas.

[CnBtruntru]

So why play hoofball ?

As bad a first half as seen all season from both sides

You need to ask Sean Dyche, not me.

[Hedontplayforyou]

He’s a good player , needs the ball to feet much more often and more technical ability behind him to create some chances . However he’s worked his backside off for the team since arriving and IF he can get on the scoresheet Sunday then that’s 3 of our forward players potentially with a bit of confidence/form going in to the run in.

[KRBFC]

Jay had two shots yesterday.

Strikers need service but they also need to make space and be in the right areas.

Which two shots did Jay have? was it from the great Weghorst play to win the ball back and lay it off?

Weghorst is in the right area, you can't doubt that, it's not his fault the pullbacks didn't land to him.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Which two shots did Jay have? was it from the great Weghorst play to win the ball back and lay it off?

Weghorst is in the right area, you can't doubt that, it's not his fault the pullbacks didn't land to him.

If that’s your view fair enough.

I just don’t see what you see in him. In my opinion he’s never going to score 10 goals a season in this league.

[KRBFC]

If that’s your view fair enough.

I just don’t see what you see in him. In my opinion he’s never going to score 10 goals a season in this league.

I don't think anyone will score 10 goals a season in this current Burnley side, we don't create anywhere near enough often enough. What I see is a striker offering more than Wood did this season, in the same side. Running his absolute arse off and pressing back, doesn't give the ball away often, just needs the Collins cutback to land to him, he created the space. He has obvious quality with the ball at his feet, anyone can see that, just needs us to play to his strengths more.

[KRBFC]

As for your slow comments and mentioning Peter Crouch, Crouch was a phenomenal striker, brilliant scoring record. Crouch is the one that truly got away, if only we'd have got him at the time, think he changed his mind last minute with the race riots ongoing.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I don't think anyone will score 10 goals a season in this current Burnley side, we don't create anywhere near enough often enough. What I see is a striker offering more than Wood did this season, in the same side. Running his absolute arse off and pressing back, doesn't give the ball away often, just needs the Collins cutback to land to him, he created the space. He has obvious quality with the ball at his feet, anyone can see that, just needs us to play to his strengths more.

Cornet is set to score ten goals this season. Should finish on 11 based on his goal per game ratio.

But that’s the point we are not going to play to his strengths because we haven’t got players that can. I’m not entirely sure how effective he would be even if we did. As I say his lack of physicality and speed is quite staggering.

[SalisburyClaret]

Cornet is set to score ten goals this season. Should finish on 11 based on his goal per game ratio.

But that’s the point we are not going to play to his strengths because we haven’t got players that can. I’m not entirely sure how effective he would be even if we did. As I say his lack of physicality and speed is quite staggering.

I take it you didn’t see him running nearly the length of the pitch and outpacing most of the players on both sides to cover an Everton attack. He doesn’t look fast but that stride length eats up the ground pretty quick!

[RalphCoatesComb]

What we saw last night was excellent deliveries into the box that could be attacked. Result? Three really good goals. Weghorst has been starved of that kind of service. When the ball comes across, served on a plate, Wout will score. He just needs the service.

[arise_sir_charge]

Newcastle, all these stats you refer to, what do they mean?

What’s a completed pass?

Are the ones Westy gives back to the throw in takers knee a completed pass? Is the one she shelled at Lenon’s head that was impossible to control a completed pass?

Football is played on grass, not in a spreadsheet.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Newcastle, all these stats you refer to, what do they mean?

What’s a completed pass?

Are the ones Westy gives back to the throw in takers knee a completed pass? Is the one she shelled at Lenon’s head that was impossible to control a completed pass?

Football is played on grass, not in a spreadsheet.

A completed pass is quite simple.

A pass that is successfully received from another player on the same team.

So if Westwood passes the ball to Brownhill and he controls it, that is classed as a completed pass.

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

He reminds me of Peter Crouch the way he looks ungainly on the ball, but usually comes away from tackles with the ball.

I was just saying last night that he looks nothing like Peter Crouch! He doesn't look ungainly on the ball to me. Strange how two people can see things totally differently sometimes.