Plane/Banner over Etihad

[Sproggy]

Haven't seen this mentioned and it seems to be fairly low key in the mainstream media - at least compared to the similar incident when we were involved.

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/man-city-li ... paign=feed

[2 Bee Holed]

I am not sure what it meant, but quite a precise date! Especially for something that is already true and has been for a long time, is it 56million Brits to 7 billion?

[Jamesy]

I think it was created by someone of little intelligence. However he/she/they probably got the projected numbers re population/ethnicity from somewhere? Perhaps they should have said “indigenous population of Britain in the minority by 2066”?
That maybe is too long for a streamer for a plane or maybe they couldn’t spell indigenous? Either way they have wasted their money on a meaningless statement.

[claret2018]

Strange that plane banner has become the go-to method of communication for daft racists

[TheFamilyCat]

A similarly ill-informed leaflet campaign is being run in the build up to the local elections (not sure of the "party" and don't really care to be honest).

Plenty of idiots will fall for it, sadly. I can think of a few on this board for starters.

[TheFamilyCat]

Just to add, in response to the OP, I think the difference in media attention is that yesterday's plane wasn't done 'in the name of' one of the teams involved.

[elwaclaret]

Why are we assuming it is a ‘British’ plane, from a British airfield? It would play well on Russian state media for example for the West to be embroiled in divisive racist incident at the Premier Leagues biggest game of the season, so far.

I suggest we wait for he investigations findings

[Devils_Advocate]

Why are we assuming it is a ‘British’ plane, from a British airfield? It would play well on Russian state media for example for the West to be embroiled in divisive racist incident at the Premier Leagues biggest game of the season, so far.

I suggest we wait for he investigations findings

Considering the racist political group who call themselves Patriotic Alternative have claimed responsibility for the distribution of 1000's of leaflets in the North West stating the same message Id say its pretty safe to assume it is them who have organised this plane and its banner

[groove]

If the forecast is correct, and the indigenous people of the British Isles do become a minority, do we think that will be a good thing? Or a bad thing? Or does it not matter?

[Jakubclaret]

It’s hardly surprising divisions are there, from day 1 if we would have all stood behind the United front - all lives matter the message would have been neutral, impartial & represented fairness regardless of any particular skin colour.

[aggi]

Good old jakub. The man who, if his neighbour's house was on fire, would be complaining that the fire brigade weren't using half of the hoses on his house.

[elwaclaret]

If the forecast is correct, and the indigenous people of the British Isles do become a minority, do we think that will be a good thing? Or a bad thing? Or does it not matter?

Depends where you come from… has the imported French (Norman) class system ever been great for the native Brythonic population west of the Penines? Or have we been manipulated into buying into the middle class ‘British’ system that has repressed the ‘other’, despite the North West being a melting pot of cultures dating back to pre-history?

[TheFamilyCat]

Good old jakub. The man who, if his neighbour's house was on fire, would be complaining that the fire brigade weren't using half of the hoses on his house.

The messageboard equivalent of white noise

[Billy Balfour]

Good old jakub. The man who, if his neighbour's house was on fire, would be complaining that the fire brigade weren't using half of the hoses on his house.

I think he'd be ranting about the fire engines not being horse-drawn, while also cursing the internal-combustion engine as clearly some form of witchery.

[Rowls]

You'd have to be barmy to think that any human life "didn't matter" but that has never been the point of either the BLM movement or the 'White LIves Matter' banner flown over the Etihad. Both were (and remain) political statements rather than any simple affirmation of the sacred nature of human life.

Both invite you to dare to disagree and both seek to sow division and diversiveness to further their political message.

But it all happened in a bubble of hysteria and the vast majority of people got caught up in it when the previous banner was flown.

[claret2018]

You'd have to be barmy to think that any human life "didn't matter" but that has never been the point of either the BLM movement or the 'White LIves Matter' banner flown over the Etihad. Both were (and remain) political statements rather than any simple affirmation of the sacred nature of human life.

Both invite you to dare to disagree and both seek to sow division and diversiveness to further their political message.

But it all happened in a bubble of hysteria and the vast majority of people got caught up in it when the previous banner was flown.

Your analysis doesn’t make you appear as clever as you think it does.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Good old jakub. The man who, if his neighbour's house was on fire, would be complaining that the fire brigade weren't using half of the hoses on his house.

He'd be spinning a wheel to determine who gets which hoses etc

[Jakubclaret]

Good old jakub. The man who, if his neighbour's house was on fire, would be complaining that the fire brigade weren't using half of the hoses on his house.

It’s a simple concept where everybody feels equal, I applaud whoever flew the banner over the Etihad apart from the message should have said - all lives matter & not white lives matter, no race should feel alienated the central message to stamp out racism should be completely inclusive & cover all skin colours, it isn’t hence the problems.

[TheFamilyCat]

It’s a simple concept where everybody feels equal, I applaud whoever flew the banner over the Etihad apart from the message should have said - all lives matter & not white lives matter, no race should feel alienated the central message to stamp out racism should be completely inclusive & cover all skin colours, it isn’t hence the problems.

You're missing the point that the people who flew the banner (the white lives one) did not believe that all lives mattered. It was a racist moron and you are trying to defend a racist moron, not for the first time.

[Rowls]

Your analysis doesn’t make you appear as clever as you think it does.

Do you imagie I post in an attempt to make myself sound clever?

Do you think I' insecure about my intelligence or care if people think I'm stupid?

[Devils_Advocate]

It’s a simple concept where everybody feels equal, I applaud whoever flew the banner over the Etihad apart from the message should have said - all lives matter & not white lives matter, no race should feel alienated the central message to stamp out racism should be completely inclusive & cover all skin colours, it isn’t hence the problems.

So let me get this straight, here you are applauding someone for flying a banner with a message that you have just stated was wrong and that you dont agree with.

Do you ever read back your posts and realise how daft you sound?

[Jakubclaret]

So let me get this straight, here you are applauding someone for flying a banner with a message that you have just stated was wrong and that you dont agree with.

Do you ever read back your posts and realise how daft you sound?

The act not the message 2 different things the message should have said - all lives matter & not white lives matter, you need to include everybody in the central message, I’m against BLM so I can’t be in favour of WLM that would be hypocritical.

[Devils_Advocate]

The act not the message 2 different things the message should have said - all lives matter & not white lives matter, you need to include everybody in the central message, I’m against BLM so I can’t be in favour of WLM that would be hypocritical.

What was the act without the message? Were you just impressed that someone flew a plane?

[Jakubclaret]

What was the act without the message? Were you just impressed that someone flew a plane?

The act was right the message was wrong, the act opposed BLM but wasn’t onboard with the ALM message.

[Rileybobs]

Does this guy ever take a day off? This is a real person, just think about that for a minute. Imagine actually knowing him.

[claret2018]

Do you imagie I post in an attempt to make myself sound clever?

Do you think I' insecure about my intelligence or care if people think I'm stupid?

Yes, yes, clearly not.

[Devils_Advocate]

The act was right the message was wrong, the act opposed BLM but wasn’t onboard with the ALM message.

So I assume you applaud the act of football players taking the knee because after all its only the message you disagree with and not the act itself? Unless of course you dont support the act of trying to rid football of racism?

[JohnMcGreal]

I applaud whoever flew the banner over the Etihad apart from the message should have said - all lives matter & not white lives matter, no race should feel alienated the central message to stamp out racism should be completely inclusive & cover all skin colours, it isn’t hence the problems.

That would be a bloody big banner. You'd have to hire a 747!

[Jakubclaret]

So I assume you applaud the act of football players taking the knee because after all its only the message you disagree with and not the act itself? Unless of course you dont support the act of trying to rid football of racism?

Taking the knee is irrefutably symbolic to the BLM movement if we had WLM doing neo nazi heil hitler salutes I’d find the thing similarly off putting, if people don’t support ALM in my view they are either racist towards black people or white people, all lives matters does not discriminate from either everybody’s onboard.

[Spiral]

"Similarly" lol.

[Devils_Advocate]

Taking the knee is irrefutably symbolic to the BLM movement if we had WLM doing neo nazi heil hitler salutes I’d find the thing similarly off putting, if people don’t support ALM in my view they are either racist towards black people or white people, all lives matters does not discriminate from either everybody’s onboard.

If taking the knee is symbolic of the BLM movement is flying a plane with a WLM message not a literal representation of the WLM movement?

[elwaclaret]

Taking the knee is irrefutably symbolic to the BLM movement if we had WLM doing neo nazi heil hitler salutes I’d find the thing similarly off putting, if people don’t support ALM in my view they are either racist towards black people or white people, all lives matters does not discriminate from either everybody’s onboard.

If all lives matter, then surely you believe in equality. If you believe in equality then ‘taking the knee’ is universal - or it would be based on the ‘northern soul’ black fist salute, wouldn’t it? Black and white footballers taking the knee purely expresses the balance is yet been reached.

[bobinho]

Listen to yourselves.... So desperate are you to try to find a racist, even when someone condemns the statement, you hang on to something else that isn't really there. He clearly stated he is supportive of fairness for all, regardless of skin colour. You lot are the modern equivalents of the witchfinders of years ago.
"Are you a witch?"
"No!"
"See, she's a witch!!! Burn her!!!"

[Spiral]

If we are to take seriously the notion put forward by a small handful of dim folk on here and elsewhere that anti-racism messages are "discriminatory" for advancing the cause of one group, then it follows that Save the Children is a discriminatory organisation for advancing the cause of one group. But this would clearly be a ridiculous statement.

[elwaclaret]

Listen to yourselves.... So desperate are you to try to find a racist, even when someone condemns the statement, you hang on to something else that isn't really there. He clearly stated he is supportive of fairness for all, regardless of skin colour. You lot are the modern equivalents of the witchfinders of years ago.
"Are you a witch?"
"No!"
"See, she's a witch!!! Burn her!!!"

You lot? I think you protest too much. There are many differing views being expressed. I pity anyone who believes being asked to open their minds to alternative thought process represents a problem, never mind it being a witch-hunt.

[Jamesy]

Never mind trying to tie Jakubclaret in knots then, to make him fit your perception of being a racist?

[Stayingup]

Racism is not just applicable to skin colour. Its about races. At the moment I dont feel.good about Russians.

[claret2018]

Never mind trying to tie Jakubclaret in knots then, to make him fit your perception of being a racist?

He does a perfectly good job of that himself. He’s the self-lacing Back to the Future Nike trainers of tying himself up in knots to appear racist.

[Jamesy]

Racism is not just applicable to skin colour. Its about races. At the moment I dont feel.good about Russians.

Not all Russians surely? What about the young conscripted Russian soldiers? Many of them are losing their lives in a conflict that they have no appetite for and no choice but to do what Putin’s Generals order them to do. Not sure it is about races, it’s more like bad horrible people inflicting hatred, pain and misery on others.

[Spiral]

What about if it was Save the white children? Or save the black children?

Those organisations don't exist — at least that I'm aware of. I don't expect you to care for what I'm about to say, nor do I believe you'll even read it. I'll give people the benefit of the doubt and for the sake of argument assume (though I don't believe them) that they genuinely believe BLM (or any other organisation/cause/cultural force that advances black people's rights and dignity) to be racist, and I'll argue why it is not. So this is for anyone who might be interested. Take it or leave it

People exist as a collection of 'antagonisms' such as their class, nationality, regional identity, race, ethnicity, religion, sex, physical/mental ability etc. Don't think of antagonism meaning 'hostility' to another. It just means how one group (defined by their antagonism) struggles or thrives in relation to another. Each definable antagonism provides a way of conceptualising, organising, and importantly, demarcating the varying characteristics belonging to all people which affect their lives; the defining of those antagonisms being not only useful in conceptualising a personal existence, but vitally important when the political rights and place in society of those belonging to any combination of antagonisms is affected by their antagonism/s. 'Working-class white male' consists of three separate antagonisms: a specific class, race, and gender. You define antagonisms with the aim of using them to advance rights and respect for people belonging to those antagonisms where necessary or desirable.

However, an antagonism by definition always exists in opposition to another, (the concept — the antagonism — of the gender 'male' doesn't exist without the concept — the antagonism — of the genders 'not-male', 'whiteness' doesn't exist as a racial concept without 'not-white', 'heterosexuality' doesn't exist as a definable concept without the existence of the sexualities 'not-heterosexual',' working-class' as a definable class doesn't exist without the other socioeconomic classes etc etc etc), and so, crucially, the question becomes, "is it the case, and if so to what extent, does belonging to any given antagonism, deprive, oppress (for lack of a better word; call it "cause one to be unfairly $hat on" if you prefer), incur disrespect, deny political rights, freedoms and opportunities, and otherwise cause struggle, to a degree different to its opposite antagonism?" In this country it is preposterous to say about the antagonisms 'white' and 'male' that their opposed antagonisms 'non-white' and 'female' enjoy greater political rights, freedoms, respect, dignity, and opportunities. This simply contradicts our reality. It might not contradict a person's imagination or beliefs, which they're entitled to hold however erroneous, skewed or insane they may be, but it contradicts reality, which is what matters. A very convincing argument can be made (as long as you're willing to listen in good-faith) that not even parity exists, that 'male' and 'white' enjoy demonstrable privileges (material, social) over their counter-antagonisms.

Save the Children operates theoretically indifferent to race because the uplift of those belonging to the antagonism 'child' happens to be why the charity exists. Were an organisation to work in support of children belonging to the antagonism of a specific race, it might be legitimate but would only be so without drawing accusations of racism if the 'race' antagonism it fights for is underprivileged compared to its opposite, hence why in the UK "save the white children" would be ridiculous, drawing accusations of advancing the antagonism 'white' to racist ends where the antagonism 'white' already experiences political and social dominance. However, advancing the cause for 'working class' children is uncontroversial because 'working class' is accepted to be a socioeconomically underprivileged antagonism. In the case of 'working class' this state of being underprivileged is inherent.

However, antagonisms need not always contradict one another; it would be practical to advance the cause of the antagonism of 'race' independent of 'age' as advancing the cause for 'race' would implicitly advance the status of children belonging to that race. And also, as it happens, the practical implications on an individual of their race as antagonism usually (but not always) becomes far more visible in adulthood, by which time a children's charity is of no use to that individual.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Listen to yourselves.... So desperate are you to try to find a racist, even when someone condemns the statement, you hang on to something else that isn't really there. He clearly stated he is supportive of fairness for all, regardless of skin colour. You lot are the modern equivalents of the witchfinders of years ago.
"Are you a witch?"
"No!"
"See, she's a witch!!! Burn her!!!"

Absolutely rammed with acid tongued nasty sandal wearers is this country these days.

Unforgiving zealots who want blood.

[Burnley1989]

Absolutely rammed with acid tongued nasty sandal wearers is this country these days.

Unforgiving zealots who want blood.

But only behind a computer screen, they’re generally the quietest people in a room

[RMutt]

Absolutely rammed with acid tongued nasty sandal wearers is this country these days.

Unforgiving zealots who want blood.

Sandal wearers don’t usually bother me, it’s brogue wearers that I usually find more troubling.

[Boss Hogg]

The banner doesn’t really make sense. Minority in relation to what ? Other populations ? Which ones ? We already are compared to some.

[thelaughingclaret]

Liverpool and City are both massive clubs with lots of greedy money the media like. So their fans can do as they please! The media won’t say out against them. Yet when 1 Burnley fan does something it is “All Burnley fans are racist” as Burnley are a small club with less then no money, who they don’t want anywhere near the premier league, so the media will do everything and anything to discredit Burnley the town and the club. Simple really. That is why this has been swept under the rug.

[Hipper]

1066 - we became Norman/French.

Before that the Normans were Vikings from Scandinavia. We too already had Scandinavian blood, and no doubt Roman blood too.

And so it goes on....

[TheFamilyCat]

Liverpool and City are both massive clubs with lots of greedy money the media like. So their fans can do as they please! The media won’t say out against them. Yet when 1 Burnley fan does something it is “All Burnley fans are racist” as Burnley are a small club with less then no money, who they don’t want anywhere near the premier league, so the media will do everything and anything to discredit Burnley the town and the club. Simple really. That is why this has been swept under the rug.

You could be right.

Or it may just be that those responsible were not connecting themselves to either club.

[Billy Balfour]

Aye, the banner on Sunday did not mention Manchester or Liverpool, or indeed MCFC/LFC. The 'White Lives Matter Burnley' banner didn't require a Sherlock Holmes. Mentioning Burnley is a bit of a giveaway. Also, a quick glance at social media or football message boards is all that was required in order to find all the info you needed as to its origins. We can't cry 'poor ickle Burnley' with this one.

[pushpinpussy]

both banners had racist tones. why a discussion about this?

[elwaclaret]

1066 - we became Norman/French.

Before that the Normans were Vikings from Scandinavia. We too already had Scandinavian blood, and no doubt Roman blood too.

And so it goes on....

Really interesting and History changing new research headed up by UCL on that - Lancashire remained Brythonic throughout the Roman invasion - East Lancashire was home to the Satanti Celtic tribe, aligned to the Brigantes but not part of it, they seemingly never fell under direct Roman rule. Further it has revealed that King Elmet was still King of the area until roughly 700AD (it had been thought his Kingdom was in West Yorkshire previously to genetic research), so the Anglo-Saxons didn’t subdue it either; the time of Bede wrote we were “Welsh” (Saxon for stranger), the English border was at the Mersey) so Alfred was never ‘our’ king. Lancaster became central to Norman attempts to pacify the North once they nabbed the Saxon throne of England… so racists from the area should remember they are more ‘Celt’ than your average Welshman or Scot…. And like them we all hail from Iberian migration after the Ice age.