Weghorst miss

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dandeclaret
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by dandeclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 10:22 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:07 am
Pretty clear that Weghorst game isn't running into channels, so criticising him for not doing something he doesn't do is a tad harsh

Jay does, and is faster and a lot better than Barnes, so like you, I hope he's fit for Sunday as it would give us that option

But if he's not fit, and we have to choose between Barnes and Weghorst in a game we have to set out to win, I think I'd start with Weghorst
But his game is ball into feet and hold it up, and he doesn't do that often enough either. He gets outmuscled too regularly.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by martin_p » Fri May 20, 2022 10:22 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:11 am
But I am very worried by the Barnes elbow after five minutes. I worry that his desire to be combative might go too far in a game we absolutely cannot afford to go down to ten men
I know what you mean, but he does seem to know how to stay just the right side of the line. Has he ever been sent off for us?

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Steve1956 » Fri May 20, 2022 10:23 am

SalisburyClaret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 9:19 am
Tarka makes blocks like that every game.
Not a miss, just class defending against an excellent move
Exactly!

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by AlargeClaret » Fri May 20, 2022 10:23 am

Barnes is hopeless and miles past his best . Though with no Vydra and Jay options were tight . WW could yet come good and once we have a quality striker here (if we stay up) it should allow him to settle more , not to mention decent service from Cornet and a new quality mid .

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri May 20, 2022 10:27 am

Steve1956 wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:21 am
Where have you been I missed you,where ever you where was Ralphcoatescomb in the same cell? :lol:
:D

I got a months ban for calling a racist thick and wishing him well re-sitting his GCSE's then a holiday. Racist and homophobic comments are ok on here but describing someone as thick is classed as over stepping the mark.

My visits to this site are a lot less now. Tolerating those kind of comments isn't my kind of thing
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Steve1956 » Fri May 20, 2022 10:29 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:27 am
:D

I got a months ban for calling a racist thick and wishing him well re-sitting his GCSE's then a holiday. Racist and homophobic comments are ok on here but describing someone as thick is classed as over stepping the mark.

My visits to this site are a lot less now. Tolerating those kind of comments isn't my kind of thing
Just cocked you up for the prediction league and it was going so well,maybe you can get a full house this weekend and still win it...never give in ! ;)

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 10:34 am

martin_p wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:22 am
I know what you mean, but he does seem to know how to stay just the right side of the line. Has he ever been sent off for us?
Everton (A) in a game we had to win to stay up

Was a few years ago though in this defence

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 10:36 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:22 am
But his game is ball into feet and hold it up, and he doesn't do that often enough either. He gets outmuscled too regularly.
He has done it for us though (though not often enough since he signed for us)

I'm torn to be honest, and I wish we had some more options up front for this crucial game

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri May 20, 2022 10:44 am

I worry about Cornet’s old mate Guimares who plays, well, everywhere, but especially in that zone where Wout drops back into. The Barnes combative style may be more suited to what is needed here. However Weghorst is a better poacher, it is whether his lack of confidence becomes the issue.

Basically, if Jackson gets this right, the man will be a hero and rightly so.

Hopefully it will all be moot if Frank’s boys get their own back on Leeds. If it were me that happened to I’d have a very long memory and would be determined to teach them some respect. Some people need to be taught it the hard way.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by TsarBomba » Fri May 20, 2022 10:56 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:44 am
I worry about Cornet’s old mate Guimares who plays, well, everywhere, but especially in that zone where Wout drops back into. The Barnes combative style may be more suited to what is needed here. However Weghorst is a better poacher, it is whether his lack of confidence becomes the issue.

Basically, if Jackson gets this right, the man will be a hero and rightly so.

Hopefully it will all be moot if Frank’s boys get their own back on Leeds. If it were me that happened to I’d have a very long memory and would be determined to teach them some respect. Some people need to be taught it the hard way.
Brentford will be more than up for sending Leeds down after their classless celebrations 2 years ago.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by boatshed bill » Fri May 20, 2022 11:08 am

Picking one player out as "poor" is a bit silly.
We are 17th for a reason, and that reason is not Wout Weghorst.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by warksclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 11:29 am

Was at the game and when it happened I thought what a sitter he has missed. Then saw it and what a block. I think those moments tell you who is a good striker (for being there), and who is a great striker by converting it. IN the last few games both Weghorst and Cornet seem to be devoid of confidence and when the moments come they just seem to freeze

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by KRBFC » Fri May 20, 2022 11:36 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:09 am
If this miss was a one off, I’d have loads of sympathy, but it isn’t. He probably continues a reasonable long list of players who score in the German league, but can’t convert it with any sort of similar regularity to the premier league. We need to hope that Jay is fit for Sunday.
The hugely prolific Rodriguez who Weghorst needs to go another 45 games without scoring to match Rodriguez' goal output.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by SouthLondonexile » Fri May 20, 2022 11:46 am

It was a golden opportunity to score , but it was a brilliant bit of defending to stop a certain goal.
I would have loved the three points it might have given us.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by KRBFC » Fri May 20, 2022 11:47 am

THIS SEASON STATS:

Barnes: 1 goal in 22 apps.
Jay Rodriguez: 2 goals in 29 apps.
Vydra: 2 goals in 22 apps.
Weghorst: 2 goals in 19 apps.
Wood (for Burnley): 3 goals in 17 apps.

5 strikers, non of them can put the ball in the net with any regularity for us this season. Ben Mee is our 2nd top goalscorer. This is a team problem, not just a striker problem.
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Jambo » Fri May 20, 2022 11:58 am

It's both a terrible, terrible miss and a brilliant block. Things can be both!

Firstly, Weghorst is unbelievably slow for a professional footballer - like, historically slow. The time it takes him to get to the ball, which is perfectly placed by Roberts by the way, opens the door for Mings to get across.

He's not just very very very slow, he never attacks the ball with any conviction. That's more time for Mings.

The finish is then not "doing everything right" - that would be doing his job and scoring a goal.

He should be anticipating Mings throwing his body in the way. The only place Mings can block that ball is exactly where Weghorst puts it. If he slides the ball on the ground, it is a goal. If he lifts it, it is a goal. If he pauses, Mings flies past him and it's an open net. It is a shocking, shocking miss.

Credit Mings for getting there, but Weghorst should never have given him the chance to block a shot from that situation. Literally just kick it in the net.

I'm with dandeclaret. The lad is a trier, but that's it. He's absolutely nowhere near the standard needed. No idea how he scored so many in Germany.

It's not scapegoating, it's just stating what's obvious. He isn't good.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by jedi_master » Fri May 20, 2022 12:06 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:07 am
But if he's not fit, and we have to choose between Barnes and Weghorst in a game we have to set out to win, I think I'd start with Weghorst
The sheer fact that we’re having to debate whether to pick Weghorst or Barnes, when he was supposed to replace the regular source of goals which was Chris Wood, is the problem.

Whether it was Dyche, Pace or whoever, they got the wrong man in for what the core piece of the puzzle we needed was in January - a man who can score goals in the system that we play. That’s not Weghorst’s fault, but it’s the hand we are dealt.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by KRBFC » Fri May 20, 2022 12:11 pm

jedi_master wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 12:06 pm
The sheer fact that we’re having to debate whether to pick Weghorst or Barnes, when he was supposed to replace the regular source of goals which was Chris Wood, is the problem.

Whether it was Dyche, Pace or whoever, they got the wrong man in for what the core piece of the puzzle we needed was in January - a man who can score goals in the system that we play. That’s not Weghorst’s fault, but it’s the hand we are dealt.
Playing in the exact same Burnley team...

Weghorst: 2 goals in 19 apps, 3 assists.
Wood (for Burnley): 3 goals in 17 apps, 0 assists.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by martin_p » Fri May 20, 2022 12:12 pm

Jambo wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:58 am
It's both a terrible, terrible miss and a brilliant block. Things can be both!

Firstly, Weghorst is unbelievably slow for a professional footballer - like, historically slow. The time it takes him to get to the ball, which is perfectly placed by Roberts by the way, opens the door for Mings to get across.

He's not just very very very slow, he never attacks the ball with any conviction. That's more time for Mings.
The ball isn’t perfectly placed by Roberts, it’s too slow. I think this is what people are missing. Weghorst is in position waiting for the ball, the reason he doesn’t get the shot away quicker is that the ball is played in too slowly.
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by jedi_master » Fri May 20, 2022 12:16 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 12:11 pm
Playing in the exact same Burnley team...

Weghorst: 2 goals in 19 apps, 3 assists.
Wood (for Burnley): 3 goals in 17 apps, 0 assists.
Yeah, he’d been gash this season - still offered more. As you (correctly) stated above, all our strikers have been rubbish this season on a pure goals/game ratio, it cannot be disputed and won’t be by anyone.

The fact remains, we signed Wout Weghorst to score more goals than 2 in 18 or whatever it is. His style of play didn’t and does not suit what we are (currently), as I say - not his fault. I firmly believe we signed him due to his goals record and the fact he is 6’6, hence why we were being linked with Andy Carroll and Kiefer Moore at the same time. We wanted a target man to slot in there, and ended up with someone who cannot win a header. The club got it wrong for what we needed at the time we got him.

Now, it may well be a more expansive manager in the summer (should we stay up) can extract more of him by evolving the style of player and signing players to suit his game, but that’s (as I’ve said), hypothetical and of no help to us right now.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Boss Hogg » Fri May 20, 2022 12:24 pm

For me he needs far more time than he gets. The PL is too fast for him. He has a nice touch and does good lay offs but he has no pace and can’t head. I think he’s looking a bit frustrated and is lacking confidence when he gets a chance. He’s been rightly dropped and you wouldn’t put your money on him scoring if we needed a goal. Hopefully he’ll prove many wrong and bag on Sunday and look sharp and clinical. A new manager may well get more out of him but I’m not confident he’ll ever score many in the Premier League.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by KRBFC » Fri May 20, 2022 12:25 pm

jedi_master wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 12:16 pm
Yeah, he’d been gash this season - still offered more. As you (correctly) stated above, all our strikers have been rubbish this season on a pure goals/game ratio, it cannot be disputed and won’t be by anyone.

The fact remains, we signed Wout Weghorst to score more goals than 2 in 18 or whatever it is. His style of play didn’t and does not suit what we are (currently), as I say - not his fault. I firmly believe we signed him due to his goals record and the fact he is 6’6, hence why we were being linked with Andy Carroll and Kiefer Moore at the same time. We wanted a target man to slot in there, and ended up with someone who cannot win a header. The club got it wrong for what we needed at the time we got him.

Now, it may well be a more expansive manager in the summer (should we stay up) can extract more of him by evolving the style of player and signing players to suit his game, but that’s (as I’ve said), hypothetical and of no help to us right now.
Agree completely, doesn't suit the long ball at all, that was evident from game 1.
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Jambo » Fri May 20, 2022 12:32 pm

Nah, the pass from Roberts is on a plate. Any striker capable of running will get to it fast enough to score easily.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by beddie » Fri May 20, 2022 12:41 pm

Far too light weight for me, I’d start with Barnes and let him get stuck into them. I’m also hoping Jay might be fit.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Elizabeth » Fri May 20, 2022 12:46 pm

Jambo wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:58 am
It's both a terrible, terrible miss and a brilliant block. Things can be both!

Firstly, Weghorst is unbelievably slow for a professional footballer - like, historically slow. The time it takes him to get to the ball, which is perfectly placed by Roberts by the way, opens the door for Mings to get across.

He's not just very very very slow, he never attacks the ball with any conviction. That's more time for Mings.

The finish is then not "doing everything right" - that would be doing his job and scoring a goal.

He should be anticipating Mings throwing his body in the way. The only place Mings can block that ball is exactly where Weghorst puts it. If he slides the ball on the ground, it is a goal. If he lifts it, it is a goal. If he pauses, Mings flies past him and it's an open net. It is a shocking, shocking miss.

Credit Mings for getting there, but Weghorst should never have given him the chance to block a shot from that situation. Literally just kick it in the net.

I'm with dandeclaret. The lad is a trier, but that's it. He's absolutely nowhere near the standard needed. No idea how he scored so many in Germany.

It's not scapegoating, it's just stating what's obvious. He isn't good.
There’s very little I disagree with there Jambo other than it’s a little bit overstated. A harsh assessment maybe because of what the importance of him scoring would have been.

The lad looked gutted and knows it was a big miss , if he needs any more motivation for Sunday it is this miss.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by AwayClaret » Fri May 20, 2022 1:08 pm

One thing about this thread it shows the people who know about football to those who don't. It wasn't a miss it was a brilliant block. WW didn't exactly have a great deal of goal to aim at.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by ecc » Fri May 20, 2022 1:17 pm

I've watched it five times and I every time I think it's more a case of Mings making an outstanding block and not WW missing (as per you AwayClaret).

Tremendous play by CR in this action.
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri May 20, 2022 1:37 pm

Jambo wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:58 am
It's both a terrible, terrible miss and a brilliant block. Things can be both!

Firstly, Weghorst is unbelievably slow for a professional footballer - like, historically slow. The time it takes him to get to the ball, which is perfectly placed by Roberts by the way, opens the door for Mings to get across.

He's not just very very very slow, he never attacks the ball with any conviction. That's more time for Mings.

The finish is then not "doing everything right" - that would be doing his job and scoring a goal.

He should be anticipating Mings throwing his body in the way. The only place Mings can block that ball is exactly where Weghorst puts it. If he slides the ball on the ground, it is a goal. If he lifts it, it is a goal. If he pauses, Mings flies past him and it's an open net. It is a shocking, shocking miss.

Credit Mings for getting there, but Weghorst should never have given him the chance to block a shot from that situation. Literally just kick it in the net.

I'm with dandeclaret. The lad is a trier, but that's it. He's absolutely nowhere near the standard needed. No idea how he scored so many in Germany.

It's not scapegoating, it's just stating what's obvious. He isn't good.
Very well put

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Wokingclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 2:02 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 1:37 pm
Very well put
So, all the last gasp blocks Tarky has made is due to poor strikers.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by JohnDearyMe » Fri May 20, 2022 3:23 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:47 am
THIS SEASON STATS:

Barnes: 1 goal in 22 apps.
Jay Rodriguez: 2 goals in 29 apps.
Vydra: 2 goals in 22 apps.
Weghorst: 2 goals in 19 apps.
Wood (for Burnley): 3 goals in 17 apps.

5 strikers, non of them can put the ball in the net with any regularity for us this season. Ben Mee is our 2nd top goalscorer. This is a team problem, not just a striker problem.
Good point. I think all of them having been guilty of missing some real gilt-edged scoring opportunities over the season

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by RVclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 3:28 pm

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59618476

Interesting that BBC’s match report by Simon Stone described it as a miss, saying that Mings shouldn’t have had a chance of getting there.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by BleedingClaret » Fri May 20, 2022 4:09 pm

If you’ve ever played footy then you’ve miss sitters
Proper forward ignores the noise and moves on
Hope he bags on Sunday

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Culmclaret » Fri May 20, 2022 7:27 pm

As a former striker, other than lifting the shot and thus risking ballooning it over the bar I am really not sure what else Wout could have done. Just great defending
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Elizabeth » Fri May 20, 2022 7:36 pm

Great defending because he was given the chance to get in the way. I'm not a former striker by the way .

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by AwayClaret » Fri May 20, 2022 7:38 pm

Hindsight. WW takes a touch/stops it dead then let's Mings dive then lifts it over him or there's a a gap between Mings and Matinez to slot it in. But we don't play in hindsight and WW did what 99% of strikers would do. Unfortunately Mings manages to get a block. It isn't a miss. It's brilliant defending no matter how much it pains me to praise Mings because he's a dick.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Elizabeth » Fri May 20, 2022 7:49 pm

I think I've counted 3 or 4 reasons given to excuse him the miss , someone even blaming Roberts for not passing it properly .
I get the support but he owes us one on Sunday

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by boatshed bill » Fri May 20, 2022 7:52 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:49 pm
I think I've counted 3 or 4 reasons given to excuse him the miss , someone even blaming Roberts for not passing it properly .
I get the support but he owes us one on Sunday
He doesn't need an excuse from anyone on here.
Strikers miss chances, that's how it goes.
How often have you heard "at least he's getting in the right positions to miss chances, goals will come"?

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by CnBtruntru » Fri May 20, 2022 7:56 pm

Excellent block by Mings and to think he probably won't be at Villa next year as not considered good enough, came from Villa supporting colleague, or McGinn and Ings.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Elizabeth » Fri May 20, 2022 8:19 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 7:52 pm

How often have you heard "at least he's getting in the right positions to miss chances, goals will come"?
Usually when strikers are not scoring.

I'd love to hear' he knows where the back of the net is'

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by boatshed bill » Fri May 20, 2022 8:27 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:19 pm
Usually when strikers are not scoring.

I'd love to hear' he knows where the back of the net is'
It's what managers say in support of their (chosen) forwards.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Elizabeth » Fri May 20, 2022 8:40 pm

Will Weghorst be the chosen forward on Sunday ?

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by bfcjg » Fri May 20, 2022 9:01 pm

Hope Jay is fit, he would have buried that chance so would Barnes.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by boatshed bill » Fri May 20, 2022 9:10 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 9:01 pm
Hope Jay is fit, he would have buried that chance so would Barnes.
Massive assumptions there.
We will never know.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by bfcjg » Fri May 20, 2022 9:17 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 9:10 pm
Massive assumptions there.
We will never know.
True, I reckon though from what I have seen at the moment they are both better at finishing.

beeholeclaret
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by beeholeclaret » Sat May 21, 2022 12:18 am

Big fan of what Jay and Barnes have done for Burnley but to be fair they’ve both missed some sitters in last year or so. Get off Weghorst’s back. He’s battling hard for the team and whilst he’s not been on top form in recent weeks his arrival has seen an improvement in results compared to pre Christmas. We would’ve been down weeks ago if he hadn’t been here to assist. UTC

dsr
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by dsr » Sat May 21, 2022 12:28 am

Jambo wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:58 am
It's both a terrible, terrible miss and a brilliant block. Things can be both!

Firstly, Weghorst is unbelievably slow for a professional footballer - like, historically slow. The time it takes him to get to the ball, which is perfectly placed by Roberts by the way, opens the door for Mings to get across.

He's not just very very very slow, he never attacks the ball with any conviction. That's more time for Mings.

The finish is then not "doing everything right" - that would be doing his job and scoring a goal.

He should be anticipating Mings throwing his body in the way. The only place Mings can block that ball is exactly where Weghorst puts it. If he slides the ball on the ground, it is a goal. If he lifts it, it is a goal. If he pauses, Mings flies past him and it's an open net. It is a shocking, shocking miss.

Credit Mings for getting there, but Weghorst should never have given him the chance to block a shot from that situation. Literally just kick it in the net.

I'm with dandeclaret. The lad is a trier, but that's it. He's absolutely nowhere near the standard needed. No idea how he scored so many in Germany.

It's not scapegoating, it's just stating what's obvious. He isn't good.
I bet you were the only one shouting "don't shoot" at the TV!

I don't agree that the only place Mings could block it is if Weghorst put it inside the far post. If he could reach it at the far post, then surely he would have had a chance of Wehgorst had aimed for the near post? I reckon more goals are lost by centre forwards with an open goal, taking a touch to try and make sure, than by centre forwards with an open goal hitting it into that open goal and taking the chance that there won't be a brilliant block.

What might the other two defenders and the goalkeeper have been doing while Weghorst hesitated? At least one of the defenders would certainly have been in blocking distance, and the keeper was heading back to the middle of the goal.

Newcastleclaret93
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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat May 21, 2022 7:21 am

dsr wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 12:28 am
I bet you were the only one shouting "don't shoot" at the TV!

I don't agree that the only place Mings could block it is if Weghorst put it inside the far post. If he could reach it at the far post, then surely he would have had a chance of Wehgorst had aimed for the near post? I reckon more goals are lost by centre forwards with an open goal, taking a touch to try and make sure, than by centre forwards with an open goal hitting it into that open goal and taking the chance that there won't be a brilliant block.

What might the other two defenders and the goalkeeper have been doing while Weghorst hesitated? At least one of the defenders would certainly have been in blocking distance, and the keeper was heading back to the middle of the goal.
At the point of contact from weghorsts shot the other defender was outside the left post and the keeper was in line with it.

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Re: Weghorst miss

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat May 21, 2022 8:22 am

Elizabeth wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:40 pm
Will Weghorst be the chosen forward on Sunday ?
I think we’ll start with the same line up tbh

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