Alan Pace

[ralph8]

I really do hope that Garlick takes a massive financial hit on the deal he engineered to the detriment of our club.

[elwaclaret]

Which is on Garlick

I think the fallout between Garlick and Dyche had major consequences in all aspects of the club. He was a businessman selling when the asset was at its zenith. Who knows he may be back through the door, yet… to do it again.

[NewClaret]

I really do hope that Garlick takes a massive financial hit on the deal he engineered to the detriment of our club.

I have to say, as I was walking away from the Turf today, the hit I’d have liked to have given Garlick was not the financial kind!!!

[AotearoaClaret]

We won't get £77.5m for Pope, Cornet and McNeil and I wouldn't be assuming we have £50m in the bank.

Absolutely. Can you imagine clubs paying that sort of money to us knowing we have quite obvious cash flow issues? All the power will be in the buyers hands. E.g as good as Pope is, we all know you can get more bang for your buck with a proper scouting network overseas, rather than being held to ransom domestically.

[SkiptonClaret]

We might get 20-25m for Pope but doubt very much we'd get much more than 10m for McNeil.
His value has decreased significantly this season.
I think we might find it difficult off loading more than 2 players for any significant amount.
Albeit we could lose a few more who are past their sell by date off the wage bill.

I just hope that we can get a young progressive and dynamic young manager in
who will relish rebuilding the team and has an eye for bringing in and developing young talent.
But that could take time, at least a couple of seasons, possibly longer.

Absolutely this, it’s the only forward. Extending the contract of Jay Rod is emphatically not a good start.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I have to say, as I was walking away from the Turf today, the hit I’d have liked to have given Garlick was not the financial kind!!!

What about Pace? No grief for him?

[NewClaret]

I think the fallout between Garlick and Dyche had major consequences in all aspects of the club. He was a businessman selling when the asset was at its zenith. Who knows he may be back through the door, yet… to do it again.

As much as I disliked the lack of investment, I’d probably take it if it meant we were put back in a more stable financial position.

[AotearoaClaret]

Yank venture capitalists are exactly what they say on the tin.

Mike Garlick claims to be a supporter but sold the club to the highest bidder to line his own pockets, despite knowing what it means to the town, community and surrounding areas, and knew exactly how risky the buyout was.

[ralph8]

No grief for Pace - he was just the fall guy who could not believe his luck in getting a Premier league club with very minimum outlay.

[Jamesy]

Mr Pace’s biggest mistake was giving Dyche a new four year contract. No business man in his right mind would make such a ridiculous decision.

Pace was naive at best when he did this.

[AotearoaClaret]

As much as I disliked the lack of investment, I’d probably take it if it meant we were put back in a more stable financial position.

It would mean there would be guaranteed money to have another sustainable go at getting back up again to the top table. Not a further roll of the dice.

[Duffer_]

We had to do things differently to survive at this level. SD did that with his stubborn insistence on character and framework. I suspect the rot set in when others, less qualified than him, started to dictate what players we needed.

We had to do things differently in terms of the sale of the club and subsequent ownership but too many that mattered didn't have the imagination or probably the motivation to take a different path. Right now I feel alienated from the Club. A feeling that has grown since the sale and not helped by the Club's response to away fans in corporate hospitality that sprung up around me. The response makes it clear that they value quick money more than support.

I will continue to support the team and attend games but I will think carefully about any other expenditure until I can see that it will be invested for the good of BFC, rather than wealthy individuals.

[joey13]

No grief for Pace - he was just the fall guy who could not believe his luck in getting a Premier league club with very minimum outlay.

Well he hasn’t got a Premier league club now

[NewClaret]

What about Pace? No grief for him?

I agree with your point that he’s been pretty ineffective in the transfer market. 3 windows, one shocker, one good, one poor (albeit I did sense he worked very hard to make that a good one). But I think the rot set in from the year that we finished in Europe - not sure how many windows ago that was, so for me it’s less on Pace.

I do not like the ALK financial model but there’s only one person that allowed that.

[ralph8]

Apparently he wanted a championship club but could bot believe he got a Premier league one and yes he has now got a Championship club

[Newcastleclaret93]

I agree with your point that he’s been pretty ineffective in the transfer market. 3 windows, one shocker, one good, one poor (albeit I did sense he worked very hard to make that a good one). But I think the rot set in from the year that we finished in Europe - not sure how many windows ago that was, so for me it’s less on Pace.

I do not like the ALK financial model but there’s only one person that allowed that.

The transfer windows is a long time in football. He got it all wrong and as a result we are down.

Still waiting for all this extra finances he was on about when he came in. 5m net spend in 3 windows including making a profit during our most important window.

[NewClaret]

Pace was naive at best when he did this.

To be fair here, none of us know the terms he signed up to. It’s quite likely he will have protected the club/ALK by inserting clauses minimising the impact if we were in the relegation zone for X period for example, or that any pay off is paid as salary until he finds a new role (meaning we might not pay much out if he got a job this summer).

If we’ve had to pay out the whole lot in one go, I’d agree it was naïve.

[Stayingup]

Dyche got us relegated not Pace

Hes not here, he wasnt there today so I dont know how he managed that. Lack of investment over the last few years is what got us relegated. Most of Dyches signings have been superb.

[NewClaret]

The transfer windows is a long time in football. He got it all wrong and as a result we are down.

Still waiting for all this extra finances he was on about when he came in. 5m net spend in 3 windows including making a profit during our most important window.

I agree with that. And I hope he reflects on his own performance in that respect and also acknowledges it to the fans.

[SkiptonClaret]

Hes not here, he wasnt there today so I dont know how he managed that. Lack of investment over the last few years is what got us relegated. Most of Dyches signings have been superb.

Crouch, Walters, Taylor, Reid, Lennon et al.
Yeah, superb. Jobs for the lads. Superb.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Pace isn't the main reason we've gone down but he's very much the main reason going down is going to be a total disaster for this club.

Businesses work on cash flow, money flows in and money flows out. Hopefully we all agree.

The “total disaster” you refer to is due to all that money flowing out? Agreed?

So who is it that is receiving all that money flowing out? Not Dell - they have put cash in, will be getting it paid back, plus some interest. ALK - not as far as I can see, yet, though they would hope to be bought out in the future no doubt if the club does well. It seems that the old owners are receiving the money, entirely legally, in several stages. That was their choice to choose a deal that did that in the manner it did. Their right and their perfectly legal choice. But it does mean the club has assets of a lot less than it did before.

So who is to blame for relegation being a total disaster - it doesn’t seem to be Pace, so we should lay off him, he will be hurting tonight. Like us, he is one of the losers.

[CrosspoolClarets]

We had to do things differently to survive at this level. SD did that with his stubborn insistence on character and framework. I suspect the rot set in when others, less qualified than him, started to dictate what players we needed.

Not disagreeing with the rest of your post but worth pointing out that the two signings that Dyche allegedly didn’t want were the last two off the pitch today. Much of the problem with attitude this season has been Dyche stalwarts, Wood etc.

[AotearoaClaret]

Crouch, Walters, Taylor, Reid, Lennon et al.
Yeah, superb. Jobs for the lads. Superb.

Not saying that all his signings were fantastic, but he got as many right as wrong.

Heaton, Tarkowski, Barton, gray, Arfield, pope, taylor, wood (arguably given goals scored), Jack cork, Steven defour, Steven Ward, plus 6 years in the prem and 2 promotions.

So let’s give it a bit of balance.

I’m not in any way trying to get into an argument about dyche as his time had come to an end, but I don’t think you can call jobs for the boyos only. UTC

[ClaretLoup]

Right now my guess would be that Alan and his crew will be looking for the exit doors. They took over a Premier League club and have turned into a Championship one in their first full season. The issues over the Academy are worrying as it might be a good source of potential Championship players.

Just to get some perspective on how naive they have been they bought the club for £200 million, according to the BBC in today’s match report Newcastle cost £300 million. Additionally in the six years Burnley have been in the Prem the net spend on players was £100 million.

Garlick and Co have had their trousers down big time the numbers simply don’t add up and probably everyone in the financial world knows it.

[SkiptonClaret]

Not saying that all his signings were fantastic, but he got as many right as wrong.

Heaton, Tarkowski, Barton, gray, Arfield, pope, taylor, wood (arguably given goals scored), Jack cork, Steven defour, Steven Ward, plus 6 years in the prem and 2 promotions.

So let’s give it a bit of balance.

I’m not in any way trying to get into an argument about dyche as his time had come to an end, but I don’t think you can call jobs for the boyos only. UTC

Taylor is in the “plus” column, seriously ? The dinosaur is gone, good riddance.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Taylor is in the “plus” column, seriously ? The dinosaur is gone, good riddance.

If you think Dyche was bad, I suggest you buckle in for the next few years

[AotearoaClaret]

Taylor is in the “plus” column, seriously ? The dinosaur is gone, good riddance.

Slow down on the beers tonight mate, you are gonna give yourself a coronary. Christ alive you are all over every thread trying to have an argument. Weird.

[JimmyRobbo]

Garlick must have Tony over a barrel, 2 threads of mine deleted calling the previous owner out.

Iv no doubt ill receive a ban but thus forum is in the pits if fans can't speak openly.

You just need to tone it down a bit. You were making scandalous accusations. You'd leave the mods with no alternative.

We're all hurting.

[warksclaret]

I wonder if he knows how much we are hurting. Lets hope he has the balls to tell us what the club is planning and to thank Mike Jackson in public for giving us all renewed belief right to the end

[dsr]

Businesses work on cash flow, money flows in and money flows out. Hopefully we all agree.

The “total disaster” you refer to is due to all that money flowing out? Agreed?

So who is it that is receiving all that money flowing out? Not Dell - they have put cash in, will be getting it paid back, plus some interest. ALK - not as far as I can see, yet, though they would hope to be bought out in the future no doubt if the club does well. It seems that the old owners are receiving the money, entirely legally, in several stages. That was their choice to choose a deal that did that in the manner it did. Their right and their perfectly legal choice. But it does mean the club has assets of a lot less than it did before.

So who is to blame for relegation being a total disaster - it doesn’t seem to be Pace, so we should lay off him, he will be hurting tonight. Like us, he is one of the losers.

Describe it how you want, turn the cash flow inside out and upside down, argue it in all directions. But the fact, as per the Burnley FC accounts, is that Alan Pace's company has taken £102m out of the club and Alan Pace's company now owes the club that money. To argue that that is nothing to do with Alan Pace, is nonsense.

[daveisaclaret]

This casting of Pace as an innocent businessman who just happened to stumble across a good deal is absolutely bizarre.

[dsr]

No-one (so far as I can see) has yet mentioned the other big potential liability. Pace hasn't paid for the shares in full. By most accounts, he owes £50m+ to the former majority shareholders, and probably £10m more in "club credit" to the minority shareholders. He hasn't got the money.

What are the plans? To borrow another £60m from the club? To arrange with Garlick and others to defer payment? Or to scrap the payment, write off the investment, and ride off into the sunset leaving Garlick back in ownership?

My gut feeling is the middle one. His investment is totally lost, unless we get promotion again, because (although he has only spent £15m to buy the club) the first £150m or so of the sale proceeds would have to go to Garlick and back to BFC, and there isn't a cat in hell's chance of him get £150m for a skint Championship club. So he has nothing to lose by deferring the share payments if he can, and going for broke (or broker, or brokest) by borrowing more on a this-or-bust attempt to get back up. With "bust" being a very definite possibility.

[FCBurnley]

65 million loan to be repaid According to BBC. Wonder where that’s coming from ?

[ksrclaret]

We’re in huge trouble .

[AotearoaClaret]

This casting of Pace as an innocent businessman who just happened to stumble across a good deal is absolutely bizarre.

Completely agree with what you are saying, but he has no ties to the club or area and saw an opportunity. It’s a risk/gamble that he is more than happy to take considering the cash and security was not his to loose. Worse case scenario he walks away the same as he came in when he cuts ties and the club holds the debt.

If the gamble pays off, he gets himself and the investment fund a huge amount of money. It’s only upside for him.

It’s the people closer to home who allowed it to happen that are the real villains imho. The deal shouldn’t have been on the table for him to take.

[Duffer_]

Not disagreeing with the rest of your post but worth pointing out that the two signings that Dyche allegedly didn’t want were the last two off the pitch today. Much of the problem with attitude this season has been Dyche stalwarts, Wood etc.

I'm not sure being last off the pitch is a measure of success. I'm not saying that SD didn't make mistakes this season or that things hadn't become stale but my point is that the minute we started to compromise our point of difference and tried to compete on PL mainstream terms, we were likely doomed. The level of control SD had did feel uncomfortable at times but we had to go all in on that. To undermine him from within, if that's what happened, diluted what made us special.

MJ and co had us playing a more "mixed" brand of football in that 4 game streak and perhaps it was a better adaptation to the resources we had at this time. However, if SD had been backed and we had recruited the players he wanted, instead of Cornet and Weghorst, would it have made a difference? We'll never know but given that most recognised Pace's big advantage over Garlick was his ability to re-set the relationship with SD, then it seems crazy to be buying anything other than SD's primary targets.

I know the reasons for our relegation are many and complex. I also know that SD, just like our PL survival, wasn't going to last forever. The thing that disappoints me is the lack of strategic thinking over SD. The four year contract, the apparent unwanted signings, and ultimately the lack of a successor when Pace did push the panic button. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but most of us recognised that the wisdom of potting SD would ultimately be judged by if we survived the season. We didn't and it feels like more financial irresponsibility at a time when we can least afford it.

[Long Time Lurker]

Right, so, we owe £65m. Let’s just stick to that sum because we don’t know what “significant” means. And let’s assume the £12.5m from the Wood sale went towards paying off Dyche, otherwise it might’ve gone to reducing debt already.

Let’s assume we get offered £40m for Pope, £17.5m for Max & £20m for Dwight. We factor the future fees, pay off the debt (+Max’s o/s sums) and we’re debt free. Plus we have the £50m or so left in the bank (assuming that’s not reduced). Assuming we then cut our wage bill in line with our income, there’s no storage of any problem.

I’m not saying I like any of this by the way. It’s an outrageous position to be in from where we were. As it happens, I have heard the debt has already been reduced but I don’t know if that’s true.

I think that analysis contains a few possible mistakes.

Firstly, we don't know where the mystery 10m went. It could have gone to pay back the ALK investors so they won't lose anything if it all goes tits up. If I was investing my money in a risky endeavour my first move would be to absolve myself of the financial risk I was taking.

Secondly, we don't have 50m cash in hand. The accounts represent a snapshot in time. Immediately below the figure of 50m is a negative figure of over £71m next to Note 16. If we look at note 16 we see Accruals and Deferred Income of nearly £55m.

Deferred income is money that the club has received in advance for goods or services that they have agreed to provide in the future.

If you go into a shop and buy a cake most time you pay for it there and then. A transaction of this nature would be recorded as revenue. The customer has paid for a cake and they have received a cake.

Alternatively, if you go into a shop and order a cake for a future event and pay for it immediately that transaction would be recorded in the accruals and deferred income section of the balance sheet. In this instance the customer has paid for the cake, but they haven't received it.

The reason that it is recorded differently is because the cake seller owes the customer a cake and they could default on the provision of that cake. In which case the owner of the cake shop would have to pay the customer back their money.

Another example would be season tickets. The fans pay for a ticket that will permit them to watch every home game over the course of the season. They don't receive every match day experience as soon as they hand over their money. A payment has be made on the understanding that a season of matches will take place over a future period and the customer will be allowed to watch them.

The same is true for broadcast revenue. Burnley FC Holdings are paid the TV money in advance of the matches being played on the understanding that they will be played. That is why a number of questions arose in relation to Covid. Had the games in a season not been played out in full then the football clubs would have been paid money by the broadcasting companies for something that they didn't receive, entitling them to a refund.

So I'm confidently guessing that a huge chunk of the Accruals and Deferred Income figure of £55m is a pre=payment of the broadcast revenue.

I suspect that all of the £50m has been spent already, covering the overheads of running the club and team in the period after the accounts were filed. Confirmation of this assessment is the Creditor Amounts falling within one year figure of over £71m. Think of that as the bills expected to be paid in the time period following the filing of the accounts.

The other cause for concern in that section of the accounts is the Debtors figure of £113.5m. Normally debtors are good, because they are people that owe you money.

However, nobody owes us that money in this case, it is simply an example of some very creative accounting linked to grouped undertakings which give the appearance of artificially inflated current assets. I've no doubt that everything is above board in accounting terms and not fraudulent in any way. However, it has been done in this way to hide the true state of the clubs finances, shuffling the full explanation of what this figure entails off to a private company in Jersey that doesn't have to publish its accounts for us to see.

Make not mistake, we are cash poor. The only reason that a club takes out a payday loan on the back of a player transfer is if it is having cash flow problems and companies with £50m in hand don't have cash flow problems. Normally an advance of this nature would be taken if a club had some immediate bills to pay, like funding for a new stadium as some clubs have done. In our case we don't have bills of that nature, only financial debts that need to be serviced and paid off.

[IanMcL]

He could just sell all the assets, not renew any contracts, play the U23s , use the parachute to pay off the debt.

Clear off.

[AotearoaClaret]

He could just sell all the assets, not renew any contracts, play the U23s , use the parachute to pay off the debt.

Clear off.

I feel you Ian

[Jamesy]

Someone supposedly in the know in the BL lounges yesterday said Pace had been in Vietnam for most of last week trying to secure investment into BFC.

[Row Z]

He could just sell all the assets, not renew any contracts, play the U23s , use the parachute to pay off the debt.

Clear off.

Could… but that wouldn’t fit his or his investment partners model now would it. It would also likely result in him not being backed to invest in any future football clubs, so would ruin his business model. Whilst it’s natural to be downbeat, this irrational negativity does nobody any good.

[NewClaret]

Someone supposedly in the know in the BL lounges yesterday said Pace had been in Vietnam for most of last week trying to secure investment into BFC.

Reassuring to hear he’s making such efforts (if true) but like the supposed Chinese investment, I’d imagine that will have been contingent on survival.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Someone supposedly in the know in the BL lounges yesterday said Pace had been in Vietnam for most of last week trying to secure investment into BFC.

Had to be in the case of staying in the premier league. No chance we get investment whilst a championship club

[BurnleyBob]

It would be a refreshing surprise if there was a shareholders meeting in the immediate future - minor shareholders have been disenfranchised for
years. Surely we have a legal right to have an EGM given the change in the club's financial position following relegation?

[RVclaret]

Had to be in the case of staying in the premier league. No chance we get investment whilst a championship club

Id actually heard a rumour, which I don’t believe, that investment has been secured regardless of what division we are in.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Id actually heard a rumour, which I don’t believe, that investment has been secured regardless of what division we are in.

Yes most likely rubbish. Who in there right mind would invest in a debt ridden championship club with no saleable assets after this summer.

Talksport and 5 live both saying this morning that Burnley is a ticking time bomb and league 1 is more likely than promotion.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Yes most likely rubbish. Who in there right mind would invest in a debt ridden championship club with no saleable assets after this summer.

Talksport and 5 live both saying this morning that Burnley is a ticking time bomb and league 1 is more likely than promotion.

Well if talksport and radio 5 are saying that it must be true and not some sensationalist nonsense less than 24 hours after relegation.

[Row Z]

People do invest in sides outside the premier league… given our recent history you’d argue we are likely a more attractive proposition than a large percentage of championship clubs.

People also forget that many premier league teams are owned by billionaires who likely wouldn’t be interested in the size of investment we are looking for.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Well if talksport and radio 5 are saying that it must be true and not some sensationalist nonsense less than 24 hours after relegation.

People have been saying the same thing for months and they have been spot on all way through it. I trust them over the likes of rumours that we have magically found investment from Vietnam

[RVclaret]

Yes most likely rubbish. Who in there right mind would invest in a debt ridden championship club with no saleable assets after this summer.

Talksport and 5 live both saying this morning that Burnley is a ticking time bomb and league 1 is more likely than promotion.

Talksport love kicking clubs when they are down. It’s what drives their headlines and gets attention -> viewers/listeners. I personally don’t buy into the doomsday scenarios but do eagerly await the managerial appointment - I think that will be telling as to what the ambition is from here.

Also - Sheff Utd, with large debts, are on the verge of being bought for 115m.