Alan Pace

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

People have been saying the same thing for months and they have been spot on all way through it. I trust them over the likes of rumours that we have magically found investment from Vietnam

You should ask them for the lottery numbers as well.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Talksport love kicking clubs when they are down. It’s what drives their headlines and gets attention -> viewers/listeners. I personally don’t buy into the doomsday scenarios but do eagerly await the managerial appointment - I think that will be telling as to what the ambition is from here.

I don’t think it’s doomsday scenarios it’s just the realities of our position.

It’s not the end of the club it’s probably just the end of us competing at the top table.

Probably find ourselves in a similar position as Swansea, minimal transfers, plenty of youth players living within our means. Low to mid table finishes.

[NewClaret]

People have been saying the same thing for months and they have been spot on all way through it. I trust them over the likes of rumours that we have magically found investment from Vietnam

Nobody said we’d “magically found” investment in Vietnam. They said Pace had been trying but everyone agreed that was unlikely to be successful following relegation.

[Newcastleclaret93]

You should ask them for the lottery numbers as well.

Yes because Talksport reporting a financial situation accurately is the same as them giving lottery numbers.

Just be realistic.

[RVclaret]

I don’t think it’s doomsday scenarios it’s just the realities of our position.

It’s not the end of the club it’s probably just the end of us competing at the top table.

Probably find ourselves in a similar position as Swansea, minimal transfers, plenty of youth players living within our means. Low to mid table finishes.

We don’t know yet what approach they will take. They will know that with parachute payments you statistically have a better chance (33%) of promotion. My hunch is that they will want an immediate return, won’t be overly aggressive but will try to be push for it in this first season or two. And yes we probably would end up like Swansea but don’t forget they had a play off final the season before this.

[agreenwood]

Newcastleclaret is in his element when things aren’t going great. He really is.

Prophet of doom.

[Newcastleclaret93]

We don’t know yet what approach they will take. They will know that with parachute payments you statistically have a better chance (33%) of promotion. My hunch is that they will want an immediate return, won’t be overly aggressive but will try to be push for it in this first season or two. And yes we probably would end up like Swansea but don’t forget they had a play off final the season before this.

You are correct that clubs that come down often do better, but I would argue they are in a completely different situation.

Realistically with our rebuild and the massive sums we have to turn over to MSD what do you think should be a realistic target this next season?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Newcastleclaret is in his element when things aren’t going great. He really is.

Prophet of doom.

Again I am not being a prophet of doom, I just think there needs to be a case for realism. Not fantasy land that we are going to find investors and everything is going to be ok.

[RVclaret]

Again I am not being a prophet of doom, I just think there needs to be a case for realism. Not fantasy land that we are going to find investors and everything is going to be ok.

You do enjoy the negative vibes though. You post a lot lot more.

[Newcastleclaret93]

You do enjoy the negative vibes though. You post a lot lot more.

I really don’t. It’s more because I’m just ****** off that we find ourselves in this situation after years as being ran as one of the best clubs in the country.

[helmclaret]

I’m just glad none of you lot are near the operations side of the club.

[NewClaret]

I really don’t. It’s more because I’m just ****** off that we find ourselves in this situation after years as being ran as one of the best clubs in the country.

I think we all are mate.

So why heap gloom on fellow clarets at such a crappy time for us all?

Your arguments seem to stem from the fact you want to put cold water over others “unrealistic positivity”. I don’t see anyone jumping for joy or being particularly optimistic this morning or last night, so we don’t need to be doused with the doom thanks.

[Top Claret]

Alan Pace using the club's money to buy the club and putting the club into debt is nothing to do with Alan Pace???

The problem stems from the fact that Garlick a self professed benefactor/ super fan of the club sold out to a fella who as little money, knowing that it could put the club in a perilous position

You can't blame Pace who is a business man looking for an opportunity to make himself a few bob

[Murger]

The problem stems from the fact that Garlick a self professed benefactor/ super fan of the club sold out to a fella who as little money, knowing that it could put the club in a perilous position

You can't blame Pace who is a business man looking for an opportunity to make himself a few bob

Don't waste your breath.

[joey13]

I’m just glad none of you lot are near the operations side of the club.

But you are ok with Pace being charge ,amazing

[daveisaclaret]

The problem stems from the fact that Garlick a self professed benefactor/ super fan of the club sold out to a fella who as little money, knowing that it could put the club in a perilous position

You can't blame Pace who is a business man looking for an opportunity to make himself a few bob

You can't blame Pace for his actions because he's greedy for money. Incredible line of thought really.

[RVclaret]

I feel like Pace needs to step up now and address the fans.

Needs to do a full interview or whatever, preferably today or tomorrow, outlining the clubs plan.

This involves: a date for when they want to announce a new manager, a date when they announce the retained list, reassurance over the transfer strategy / finances, likely approach they will take this season - how ambitious are they to bounce back immediately.

[bobinho]

Pace isn't the main reason we've gone down but he's very much the main reason going down is going to be a total disaster for this club.

Don’t forget garlicks role in all this. He sold out and walked away with his millions knowing full well how the takeover was to be funded.

Garlicks the man to blame for the situation we find ourselves in. He’s the one who agreed to the deal.

[Top Claret]

You can't blame Pace for his actions because he's greedy for money. Incredible line of thought really.

That's business you speculate to accumulate and cover your arse from any loss

[CrosspoolClarets]

Levelling up is about putting more money into deprived towns - not taking it out.

Apart from the disabled sections that were mandatory PL requirements we have the same crumbling infrastructure as 10 years ago. The newish Burnley College campus cost £110m apparently, That shows what can be done with the kind of dosh that the club bought itself with.

These things matter. Poor facilities means we go elsewhere - I won’t take young family on because the concourses are so packed and the queues too big with poor food and drink. That just takes more and more money out of the town.

That’s the degree to which I feel badly let down - and I don't blame ALK for that, even though they may ultimately offer us nowt either.

[NewClaret]

I feel like Pace needs to step up now and address the fans.

Needs to do a full interview or whatever, preferably today or tomorrow, outlining the clubs plan.

This involves: a date for when they want to announce a new manager, a date when they announce the retained list, reassurance over the transfer strategy / finances, likely approach they will take this season - how ambitious are they to bounce back immediately.

Agreed. Need leadership now.

[ClaretAL]

I think everyone needs to take a breath and let the dust settle, and get a clearer view. I am sure contingency plans are already in place and it is just about initiating them.

[dandeclaret]

I feel like Pace needs to step up now and address the fans.

Needs to do a full interview or whatever, preferably today or tomorrow, outlining the clubs plan.

This involves: a date for when they want to announce a new manager, a date when they announce the retained list, reassurance over the transfer strategy / finances, likely approach they will take this season - how ambitious are they to bounce back immediately.

Any interview, will surely be like all the others he's done, full of bluster, hyperbole and jargon on the latest fads, interspersed with loads of "MMM kay's" (as an aside, he always makes me think I'm listening to the teacher from southpark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbIpgHVHLL4)

Remember, all we've really heard so far is how amazing a deal this is for the football club (Trumpism at it's finest) yet many in the fan base, and more worryingly, most with detailed understanding of football and business finance externally think different. I'm afraid, it will be a bit more cosmetic stuff (oh look, the ladies team are sleeve sponsored by Tik Tok) and much less on the core capabilities and stabilities of the club.

[RVclaret]

What I find interesting amongst all the finances negativity and the need to firesale etc, is the alleged £40m price tag we’ve put on Pope. While I don’t believe someone will pay that, it’s interesting to see that’s what we want to aim for, hardly stinks of being absolutely desperate for cash.

[RVclaret]

Any interview, will surely be like all the others he's done, full of bluster, hyperbole and jargon on the latest fads, interspersed with loads of "MMM kay's" (as an aside, he always makes me think I'm listening to the teacher from southpark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbIpgHVHLL4)

Remember, all we've really heard so far is how amazing a deal this is for the football club (Trumpism at it's finest) yet many in the fan base, and more worryingly, most with detailed understanding of football and business finance externally think different. I'm afraid, it will be a bit more cosmetic stuff (oh look, the ladies team are sleeve sponsored by Tik Tok) and much less on the core capabilities and stabilities of the club.

Possibly but I don’t think there has been as much worry amongst fans / negativity in the media as there is now. If he is a leader then he’ll step up and address the several key questions fans have front on.

[jedi_master]

What I find interesting amongst all the finances negativity and the need to firesale etc, is the alleged £40m price tag we’ve put on Pope. While I don’t believe someone will pay that, it’s interesting to see that’s what we want to aim for, hardly stinks of being absolutely desperate for cash.

Or it suggests we are very desperate for cash, depending on how you read it!

[NewClaret]

It basically involves you believing a word that comes out of Nixons mouth. He was quoting £20m a few weeks ago. So we doubled our valuation over a couple of months. Okay, Alan.

[RVclaret]

It basically involves you believing a word that comes out of Nixons mouth. He was quoting £20m a few weeks ago. So we doubled our valuation over a couple of months. Okay, Alan.

I’ve been following his new patreon site and he’s been getting a lot right recently. In fact, Villa have just completed the signing of Boubacar Kamara, which he wrote about a week or so ago.

[spt_claret]

The relegation is a great many peoples ‘fault’ (The players have been absolute gash to a man, bar about 4 of them, Sean Dyche hugely underachieved this season, VAR has not been kind to us ever and likewise neither have referees and the media) rather than one individual. The problem is whilst Pace didn’t ‘cause’ the relegation (per se), he will oversee and be responsible for the upheaval we are about to embark on.

He is responsible for making Sean Dyche one of the best paid managers in this league on a four year deal, then sacking him a couple of months later and being liable for the staggering cost that will entail. A sacking he made far too late in the day to get us over the line, even if he actually had an immediate plan to replace him in place.

He is responsible for ‘buying’ our club using none of his own money. He effectively purchased Burnley Football Club in the same manner Gloria from Number 9 on that council estate ‘bought’ a top of the range 4K TV from Brighthouse. We have a £65m loan to pay off, a ‘significant proportion’ of which is payable right NOW due to relegation.

He is responsible for ensuring that the sales we are about to have to make of Nick Pope, Maxwel Cornet, Dwight McNeil (maybe more) will be used to pay debt off rather than to allow us to re-invest in our team and attempt to bounce back at the first attempt.

He is responsible for (apparently) our clubs Academy being downgraded, if it happens as reported. Something he used as a reason for ‘purchasing’ the club a mere 18 months ago. Bizarre.

He is responsible for attracting investment and has seemingly failed to do so bar a nebulous agreement with an NFL player that I doubt we’ll ever hear of again. He spent (I think it was quoted as) £2.5m on LED advertising hoardings to cover every inch of the ground that seem to barely have advertising on them (bar the usual names who have advertised at Burnley for years), instead just saying ‘Come on you Clarets’ etc to fill up space. Will they even be in use in the Championship?

People are either so laser-focused on the fact he sacked Sean Dyche (a man they seem to detest, despite what he achieved. Amazing!) so will overlook all of the absolute **** that Pace has dumped on our club, or are genuinely unaware of these issue due to not researching things sufficiently.

Very accurate. On the underachieving point I do think it's still worth noting that our gross (nevermind net) spend since the takeover talks began has been a pittance- we spent almost nothing in 2020-21, then spent less in summer 2021 than summer 2019 ie Garlicks final spending summer. And this 2021 spending was seemingly at odds with Dyche's plan.
It was understood we underspent under Garlick and often reported that Garlick was unwilling to use the overseas market, while Dyche was unwilling to use loans or allow sales. Chester has also made it clear with his accounts breakdowns that the club didn't have the money to spend more without sales or becoming unsustainable in part due to the European qualification hiking our wage bill. So it's not necessarily Garlicks fault he underspent given these factors.
All that changed under ALK was the overseas market being used and the gross spend was less than 2019, nevermind less than needed, certainly less than needed to recover from the previous season's lack of investment. So it's hard to really say that's underperforming when the already limited resources got cut even further and didnt recover to where they were 2 years before, coupled with the new debt burden, and claims these signings didn't fit Dyche's plans. The blame you can unequivocally place on Dyche is failure to adapt especially when we stumbled upon successful changes (433 with Jay/Vyds/Max Vs Chelsea, Cork (and Pieters) coming in, his choice to push Jay into the Wood role for Wout instead of using Wout in a 4321, etc.), And on not using the loan market or being willing to sell to buy- hindsight being what it is we should have sold Tarkowski last summer.
Final paragraph is spot on. So much of this messageboard, coupled with some of the ugly scenes from a few isolated individuals over the last couple of seasons, really does make it hard to shake the feeling that when it comes to having an unpleasant/delusional/entitled fanbase, we aren't far behind Leeds and Newcastle in the stakes. Our support right now is incredibly divided and toxic.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think we all are mate.

So why heap gloom on fellow clarets at such a crappy time for us all?

Your arguments seem to stem from the fact you want to put cold water over others “unrealistic positivity”. I don’t see anyone jumping for joy or being particularly optimistic this morning or last night, so we don’t need to be doused with the doom thanks.

Fair comment

[spt_claret]

Do you not realise the significant lack of investment in the transfer window prior to Pace acquiring the club was because Pace needed the cash as part of how his takeover had to be structured?

In my experience no, they don't realise that and no amount of spelling out the dates and numbers will make them realise it.
Same as no amount of pointing at the wage bill and wages to turnover following our European qualification will make them realise this meant we simply didn't have the money available that we had been planning for under our long term budget going forwards, and lost money and got set back long term. People just hear "you're saying we shouldn't finish 7th where's your ambition" instead of the reality that by finishing 7th then it made it harder for us to maintain that success and grow going forwards, as all kinds of financials were impacted by assumptions that we wouldn't hit those bonus levels yet. If we had finished 15-16th then we would probably have been set up better going forwards and healthier the last 2 seasons, and better able to battle for a (later) surprise 7th/better able to afford it.
People just won't accept it because it isn't what they like, means there's no easy answer, and means they have to change their view.

[CrosspoolClarets]

It will be interesting to see what happens with this alleged £200m claim relating to Everton.

I would expect our club to go into a meeting with the PL fully tooled up with a barrister and / or a football finance expert. They should know after that if they have a case. We haven’t the foggiest of course.

If it turns out they don’t, we have been stuffed by two main macro financial events - the pandemic with resulting loosening of FFP rules that Everton used, and the purchase of Newcastle by a sovereign wealth fund which the Mail on Sunday alleges yesterday may have gone through with government intervention after Saudi pressure. Aside from the Wood issue (ironically signed due to Wilson being injured who then comes back to hurt us), their other big signings Trippier with the corner for the pen and Targett heading Cork’s shot off the line. I feel sure NUFC were down without that takeover.

So I have to say ALK have been very unlucky, but money talks and we were always swimming against that tide.

[dsr]

We don’t know yet what approach they will take. They will know that with parachute payments you statistically have a better chance (33%) of promotion. My hunch is that they will want an immediate return, won’t be overly aggressive but will try to be push for it in this first season or two. And yes we probably would end up like Swansea but don’t forget they had a play off final the season before this.

That's the crucial factor.

What I reckon is that the owners know their investment is currenty, to them, worthless. They owe £60m to former shareholders and £110m to Burnley FC, so the first £170m of anything they get for selling Burnley FC is already spoken for. They won't sell BFC for £170m so their investment is worth zilch.

The only possible way they can make their investment worth anything is by getting back to the PL. So my gut feeling is that they will spend all they can, defer the loans, and go all out for promotion in year 1. If it works, they have a chance of profit. If it doesn't work, their investment is still worth zilch. All to gain, nothing to lose.

The only reason they wouldn't do this is if they have benevolent feelings for the club and its fans and feel a moral duty not to risk it all. I suspect they don't have those feelings. And if it doesn't work, then we really are following Bolton, or even Bury.

[spt_claret]

Which is on Garlick

Garlick didn't force Pace to make a leveraged takeover offer. Pace wanted in but didn't have the money to buy in.

A lot of fans wanted Garlick out. Garlick wanted out. Dyche probably wanted Garlick out. Yes it's on Garlick for agreeing to the first offer that came along regardless of how it hit the club but Pace still made that offer which exposed the club, not him. You cannot blame Garlick for taking the irresponsible deal and not Pace for making it. I do blame Garlick but I also blame Pace because Pace did it. The problem is nobody else was making an offer that wasn't equally exposing.

[NottsClaret]

NewcastleClaret is probably going to be closer to the truth of where we're headed. I said a few weeks ago, the most likely scenario is we're another Swansea. Gradually downgrading each season as we ease back into where our non-Premier League funds naturally take us, mid to lower Championship.

That's hardly a doomsday picture he's painting, it's where we should normally expect to end up. Dyche was the X-factor that got us into a position which to be fair was always unsustainable and those 18-24 months of underinvestment were where the damage was done.

Pace coming in with his deal and saddling us with this debt - and for all his PR a fair bit of naivety - has come at just the wrong time. If he didn't know what the Prem involved, I imagine he's clueless about the Championship just as the majority of experienced staff have left or been pushed out the building.

Pretty much every leveraged buyout has gone this way. Each step along the path we'll have a bit of blind optimism trying to rationalise why things are actually better now. And they may be for a match attending fan - I'm certainly looking forward to the Championship. But it is a time of decline now, the only thing up for debate is the speed of it - which we'll find out more about this summer.

[Goddy]

Fair comment

...and fair play to you Newacstle93 for taking that on the chin and accepting the criticism.

Would be nice if we all behaved more like that on this board, at times.....

[RVclaret]

Garlick didn't force Pace to make a leveraged takeover offer. Pace wanted in but didn't have the money to buy in.

A lot of fans wanted Garlick out. Garlick wanted out. Dyche probably wanted Garlick out. Yes it's on Garlick for agreeing to the first offer that came along regardless of how it hit the club but Pace still made that offer which exposed the club, not him. You cannot blame Garlick for taking the irresponsible deal and not Pace for making it. I do blame Garlick but I also blame Pace because Pace did it. The problem is nobody else was making an offer that wasn't equally exposing.

Pace is perfectly entitled to make the offer. Garlick is perfectly entitled to decline the offer. Therefore, without shunning Pace from any blame, there is more towards the latter, for me.

The question also arises to me, why were LBO’s the only interested parties? The Egyptian would have been the same. Did Garlick overvalue the club for his own benefit? We had been the most profitable club in the league, a league full of billionaire owners. Where were the buyers?

[dsr]

Garlick didn't force Pace to make a leveraged takeover offer. Pace wanted in but didn't have the money to buy in.

A lot of fans wanted Garlick out. Garlick wanted out. Dyche probably wanted Garlick out. Yes it's on Garlick for agreeing to the first offer that came along regardless of how it hit the club but Pace still made that offer which exposed the club, not him. You cannot blame Garlick for taking the irresponsible deal and not Pace for making it. I do blame Garlick but I also blame Pace because Pace did it. The problem is nobody else was making an offer that wasn't equally exposing.

Perhaps you can't blame Garlick, but what we can do is accept that Garlick (for whatever reason) wanted to make tens of millions profit and didn't object to putting the club at risk of bankruptcy to do it. We can blame him for it, or we can accept it as a no-blame way of doing business, but that's what he did.

How much of the reason for Dyche wanting Garlick out, was that Garlick was hoarding the money and not releasing it for transfers? If the cash had been spent on players rather than being ultimately paid to Garlick, then their relationship might not have been so strained.

[Newcastleclaret93]

NewcastleClaret is probably going to be closer to the truth of where we're headed. I said a few weeks ago, the most likely scenario is we're another Swansea. Gradually downgrading each season as we ease back into where our non-Premier League funds naturally take us, mid to lower Championship.

That's hardly a doomsday picture he's painting, it's where we should normally expect to end up. Dyche was the X-factor that got us into a position which to be fair was always unsustainable and those 18-24 months of underinvestment were where the damage was done.

Pace coming in with his deal and saddling us with this debt - and for all his PR a fair bit of naivety - has come at just the wrong time. If he didn't know what the Prem involved, I imagine he's clueless about the Championship just as the majority of experienced staff have left or been pushed out the building.

Pretty much every leveraged buyout has gone this way. Each step along the path we'll have a bit of blind optimism trying to rationalise why things are actually better now. And they may be for a match attending fan - I'm certainly looking forward to the Championship. But it is a time of decline now, the only thing up for debate is the speed of it - which we'll find out more about this summer.

Yep I don’t think the club is doomed by any stretch, I just suspect it’s highly likely we end up like Swansea. Purely down to the fact there finances line up with where I suspect ours will.

[spt_claret]

I'm not sure being last off the pitch is a measure of success. I'm not saying that SD didn't make mistakes this season or that things hadn't become stale but my point is that the minute we started to compromise our point of difference and tried to compete on PL mainstream terms, we were likely doomed. The level of control SD had did feel uncomfortable at times but we had to go all in on that. To undermine him from within, if that's what happened, diluted what made us special.

MJ and co had us playing a more "mixed" brand of football in that 4 game streak and perhaps it was a better adaptation to the resources we had at this time. However, if SD had been backed and we had recruited the players he wanted, instead of Cornet and Weghorst, would it have made a difference? We'll never know but given that most recognised Pace's big advantage over Garlick was his ability to re-set the relationship with SD, then it seems crazy to be buying anything other than SD's primary targets.

I know the reasons for our relegation are many and complex. I also know that SD, just like our PL survival, wasn't going to last forever. The thing that disappoints me is the lack of strategic thinking over SD. The four year contract, the apparent unwanted signings, and ultimately the lack of a successor when Pace did push the panic button. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but most of us recognised that the wisdom of potting SD would ultimately be judged by if we survived the season. We didn't and it feels like more financial irresponsibility at a time when we can least afford it.

100% spot on with everything. Nails the complexities and nuances that people can't or won't engage with perfectly, whole forum should read this.

[spt_claret]

Pace is perfectly entitled to make the offer. Garlick is perfectly entitled to decline the offer. Therefore, without shunning Pace from any blame, there is more towards the latter, for me.

The question also arises to me, why were LBO’s the only interested parties? The Egyptian would have been the same. Did Garlick overvalue the club for his own benefit? We had been the most profitable club in the league, a league full of billionaire owners. Where were the buyers?

I'm not removing Garlick from blame, he took the offer and as you say possibly overvalued to get maximum profit, rather than sold up at an already healthy profit to a more responsible offer.

The lack of reported bids really was baffling, I can only assume too many bought into the negative media perceptions around the town or playing style.

[dandeclaret]

Pace is perfectly entitled to make the offer. Garlick is perfectly entitled to decline the offer. Therefore, without shunning Pace from any blame, there is more towards the latter, for me.

The question also arises to me, why were LBO’s the only interested parties? The Egyptian would have been the same. Did Garlick overvalue the club for his own benefit? We had been the most profitable club in the league, a league full of billionaire owners. Where were the buyers?

Where are the buyers? I'd ask where did you see the growth potential in the club? What do you think the max fan base is - locally and internationally? There's no "Recent" history for the club to be marketed on, other than the current era. There's limited commercial growth opportunities - a 10% growth per annum in tickets, merchandise, marketing would be a brilliant result. And, there's a 25-40% chance of losing 90% of your income every year at this level. It's a lot to risk, with no real parachute if you fail.

A local fan based billionaire is the only realistic hope..... and the one that's around has seen his personal wealth dramatically hit during Covid.... and there's conflicting view of if he's even a Burnley / Football fan.

[spt_claret]

You can't blame Pace who is a business man looking for an opportunity to make himself a few bob

You can absolutely blame Pace for making a predatory offer structured in a way which exposes him to minimal risk for maximum reward, business also comes with business ethics. Good business dealing also comes with, or used to come with, understandings that you incur your own risks and are responsible for your own money. This mentality of "it's okay for him to do it because his motivation was always for himself" is really baffling.
It's the same mentality that leads to people blaming the people taking risky mortgages, or people with savings accounts, for the 2008 Recession ahead of the banks who kept making unsustainable offers, and playing with other people's money to fund it, chasing pure profit even as people like Michael Burry kept warning of the collapse. And then when it happened somehow it wasn't Wall Street's fault and nobody could have seen it coming.
Awfully familiar.

[spt_claret]

Where are the buyers? I'd ask where did you see the growth potential in the club? What do you think the max fan base is - locally and internationally? There's no "Recent" history for the club to be marketed on, other than the current era. There's limited commercial growth opportunities - a 10% growth per annum in tickets, merchandise, marketing would be a brilliant result. And, there's a 25-40% chance of losing 90% of your income every year at this level. It's a lot to risk, with no real parachute if you fail.

A local fan based billionaire is the only realistic hope..... and the one that's around has seen his personal wealth dramatically hit during Covid.... and there's conflicting view of if he's even a Burnley / Football fan.

You're looking at the marketing wrong. Stoke became internationally known- the cold wet day at Stoke meme still endures- because they were cut differently and traditionally and hardly a powerhouse club.

Everything about Burnley was brimming with a distinctive but alternative marketing opportunity- the last holdout of football of a bygone era. No diving, hard but fair tackles, 442 with classic wide men, defenders who are hard as nails, cobbled streets and terraces directly besides the ground overlooking Lancashire hills with the chimneys and terraces visible from the JH, a British isles core to the team with a smattering of continental flair, no overpaid divas just all good lads, a proper community club amongst the big cities run by overseas oligarchs. Doesn't matter how much of this is accurate, this perception was there.

Our perceived old fashionedness could have been turned into a gift rather than a curse- there is a huge appetite globally for a revival of tradition and dislike of distant millionaires with no sense of attachment to their community, a dislike of diving, gamesmanship, prima donna players, sportswashing, and football will always hold appeal with substance over style, relatable likeable players, and graft.

This brand was there, distinct from any others, couldn't be replicated by others due to unique factors even around the ground itself- the vista from the JH tells you everything in a glimpse. "Anti football" was a gift from the press, fans chanting ironically was one thing but the club should have embraced it fully. First thing should have been to print up Anti Football shirts for the club shop.

Dyche partly understood this brand- him walking about in the snow was part of it. Hell Bob Mortimer on his Athletico Mince comedy podcast understood this, he had recurring bits on The Burnley Way, it was not an insult at all unless you're obsessed with pats on the head from BBC Sport pundits. Need to lose the chip on the shoulder about these things.

ALK wanting to rebrand us as the biggest/favourite underdog football is a little off as we already were we just never exploited it,under Garlick or otherwise. We should have been doing stuff from the off to make our players more accessible in training/behind the scenes-an excellent and obvious call from ALK and pity if Dyche resisted. We should have promoted our club and player charity and community work more to the media both to drive charity funding and because cynically that is marketing now- Rashford has a far bigger charitable reputation than Danny Ings despite big questions over his involvement and renumeration. Because his charity is promoted better. Jay and co helping out at places barely cracked local media. We should have fully embraced the Ashley Barnes grime single and got Ash in to do a music video with the lad,play it at games. It wouldn't just be promoting him it promotes our community, rootsy image.

ALK may have yet to grow commercial revenue but they can't do much worse as we wasted our marketing potential all the premier league years.

[ClaretLoup]

The club have to fund the circa £200 Million to pay off Garlic and co, they have no team manager, assistants or physio. The future of the majority of the playing squad is in doubt and the Academy might lose their Cat 1 status. The season starts again just over two months.

Apart from that ALK and Alan are doing a great job.

[dandeclaret]

You're looking at the marketing wrong. Stoke became internationally known- the cold wet day at Stoke meme still endures- because they were cut differently and traditionally and hardly a powerhouse club.

Everything about Burnley was brimming with a distinctive but alternative marketing opportunity- the last holdout of football of a bygone era. No diving, hard but fair tackles, 442 with classic wide men, defenders who are hard as nails, cobbled streets and terraces directly besides the ground overlooking Lancashire hills with the chimneys and terraces visible from the JH, a British isles core to the team with a smattering of continental flair, no overpaid divas just all good lads, a proper community club amongst the big cities run by overseas oligarchs. Doesn't matter how much of this is accurate, this perception was there.

Our perceived old fashionedness could have been turned into a gift rather than a curse- there is a huge appetite globally for a revival of tradition and dislike of distant millionaires with no sense of attachment to their community, a dislike of diving, gamesmanship, prima donna players, sportswashing, and football will always hold appeal with substance over style, relatable likeable players, and graft.

This brand was there, distinct from any others, couldn't be replicated by others due to unique factors even around the ground itself- the vista from the JH tells you everything in a glimpse. "Anti football" was a gift from the press, fans chanting ironically was one thing but the club should have embraced it fully. First thing should have been to print up Anti Football shirts for the club shop.

Dyche partly understood this brand- him walking about in the snow was part of it. Hell Bob Mortimer on his Athletico Mince comedy podcast understood this, he had recurring bits on The Burnley Way, it was not an insult at all unless you're obsessed with pats on the head from BBC Sport pundits. Need to lose the chip on the shoulder about these things.

ALK wanting to rebrand us as the biggest/favourite underdog football is a little off as we already were we just never exploited it,under Garlick or otherwise. We should have been doing stuff from the off to make our players more accessible in training/behind the scenes-an excellent and obvious call from ALK and pity if Dyche resisted. We should have promoted our club and player charity and community work more to the media both to drive charity funding and because cynically that is marketing now- Rashford has a far bigger charitable reputation than Danny Ings despite big questions over his involvement and renumeration. Because his charity is promoted better. Jay and co helping out at places barely cracked local media. We should have fully embraced the Ashley Barnes grime single and got Ash in to do a music video with the lad,play it at games. It wouldn't just be promoting him it promotes our community, rootsy image.

ALK may have yet to grow commercial revenue but they can't do much worse as we wasted our marketing potential all the premier league years.

Do you really think enough people in Asia / America are following Stoke because of a wet Tuesday night in Stoke meme?

Your marketing is for stuff that the mass market don’t want. They don’t want firm, hard fair tackles, they want stepovers, signing announce videos, YouTube fan accounts, TikTok’s etc….. but I do agree that the output, both for engaged local fans and potential far and wide fans has fallen over the last year since they removed many of the media people from the business.

[Gordaleman]

Why is it always about blame on this board? BFC have punched above their weight for years and what happened yesterday was inevitable at some stage.

Garlick did wonders for Burnley for many years, but about four years ago, he said that we had reached a 'Glass ceiling' for investment (He's not a Saudi billionaire.) and if fans wanted more, then the club would have to be sold. From that moment, it was just a matter of time. Clearly, finding a buyer wasn't easy and no-one was going to turn up at Burnley with hundreds of millions in pound notes stuffed in suitcases. Hence we ended up with the ALK deal. Not the best we could have hoped for, but a chance to improve, none the less.

Pace unfortunately had to sack Dyche, and the improvements on the pitch since his sacking have shown it to be the right decision. (In my opinion.) Unfortunately, the players didn't turn up yesterday until it was far too late. Had they done so, all this blame could have been erased and we would still have our PL status.

Now, we fans have to really get behind the club. It has never needed us more. So let's stop the whinging and look forward to three Lancashire derby's next season and hopefully an innediate return to the PL.

[randomclaret2]

You're looking at the marketing wrong. Stoke became internationally known- the cold wet day at Stoke meme still endures- because they were cut differently and traditionally and hardly a powerhouse club.

Everything about Burnley was brimming with a distinctive but alternative marketing opportunity- the last holdout of football of a bygone era. No diving, hard but fair tackles, 442 with classic wide men, defenders who are hard as nails, cobbled streets and terraces directly besides the ground overlooking Lancashire hills with the chimneys and terraces visible from the JH, a British isles core to the team with a smattering of continental flair, no overpaid divas just all good lads, a proper community club amongst the big cities run by overseas oligarchs. Doesn't matter how much of this is accurate, this perception was there.

Our perceived old fashionedness could have been turned into a gift rather than a curse- there is a huge appetite globally for a revival of tradition and dislike of distant millionaires with no sense of attachment to their community, a dislike of diving, gamesmanship, prima donna players, sportswashing, and football will always hold appeal with substance over style, relatable likeable players, and graft.

This brand was there, distinct from any others, couldn't be replicated by others due to unique factors even around the ground itself- the vista from the JH tells you everything in a glimpse. "Anti football" was a gift from the press, fans chanting ironically was one thing but the club should have embraced it fully. First thing should have been to print up Anti Football shirts for the club shop.

Dyche partly understood this brand- him walking about in the snow was part of it. Hell Bob Mortimer on his Athletico Mince comedy podcast understood this, he had recurring bits on The Burnley Way, it was not an insult at all unless you're obsessed with pats on the head from BBC Sport pundits. Need to lose the chip on the shoulder about these things.

ALK wanting to rebrand us as the biggest/favourite underdog football is a little off as we already were we just never exploited it,under Garlick or otherwise. We should have been doing stuff from the off to make our players more accessible in training/behind the scenes-an excellent and obvious call from ALK and pity if Dyche resisted. We should have promoted our club and player charity and community work more to the media both to drive charity funding and because cynically that is marketing now- Rashford has a far bigger charitable reputation than Danny Ings despite big questions over his involvement and renumeration. Because his charity is promoted better. Jay and co helping out at places barely cracked local media. We should have fully embraced the Ashley Barnes grime single and got Ash in to do a music video with the lad,play it at games. It wouldn't just be promoting him it promotes our community, rootsy image.

ALK may have yet to grow commercial revenue but they can't do much worse as we wasted our marketing potential all the premier league years.

Stoke's owners being worth £Billions helped a wee bit too...

[ClaretPete001]

Why is it always about blame on this board? BFC have punched above their weight for years and what happened yesterday was inevitable at some stage.

Garlick did wonders for Burnley for many years, but about four years ago, he said that we had reached a 'Glass ceiling' for investment (He's not a Saudi billionaire.) and if fans wanted more, then the club would have to be sold. From that moment, it was just a matter of time. Clearly, finding a buyer wasn't easy and no-one was going to turn up at Burnley with hundreds of millions in pound notes stuffed in suitcases. Hence we ended up with the ALK deal. Not the best we could have hoped for, but a chance to improve, none the less.

Pace unfortunately had to sack Dyche, and the improvements on the pitch since his sacking have shown it to be the right decision. (In my opinion.) Unfortunately, the players didn't turn up yesterday until it was far too late. Had they done so, all this blame could have been erased and we would still have our PL status.

Now, we fans have to really get behind the club. It has never needed us more. So let's stop the whinging and look forward to three Lancashire derby's next season and hopefully an innediate return to the PL.

He reached a glass ceiling so he sold it to a group with no money who bought the club using it's own cash, and lumbered the club with at least £102 million worth of debt?

What kind of logic is that?

[Gordaleman]

He reached a glass ceiling so he sold it to a group with no money who bought the club using it's own cash, and lumbered the club with at least £102 million worth of debt?

What kind of logic is that?

Because the fans, many on this board, probably including you, demanded change.