Alan….? Alan….? Are you there, Alan?

[agreenwood]

Didn’t even think that was a possibility. This might be a stupid question but wouldn’t any compensation be shared with the other two relegated clubs?

I guess the first job is being confident that Everton breached PL rules. Then you’d need to make a claim and have a good argument that that breach had a damaging impact on your club.

In theory I guess anyone finishing below Everton in the league could consider a claim. Even Norwich & Watford could possibly say they might have received more in merit payments if Everton had finished below them.

[CrosspoolClarets]

We can only speculate of course but it would seem to me that even if the PL told a club they weren’t in breach, there could still be a claim if legally they were and the PL had acted unwisely.

Then we come to the size of the claim. A few things spring to mind.

1. Loss of TV money, not just next season, but also seasons beyond that (the odds of winning promotion are longer than the odds of staying up so it becomes a year after year headwind on income)

2. Loss of commercial and ticket income (BFC will now have a far lower profile, this also affects them for many years potentially)

3. Reduced sale prices for players (e.g. Cornet’s clause which wouldn't have applied had we stayed up).

The clubs income from the PL could have exceeded £1 billion in the 8 years we have been up (I haven’t added that up). That, and the above points, show how the numbers can add up to a huge figure very quickly. We aren’t talking the £20m the Blades got for Tevez any more, numbers must now be much higher.

Just speculating though, but wish the club luck.

[ClaretPete001]

There's some real proper half-wits out there demanding he speaks and talking about their "rights" to know the financial position etc.

We're about to go into a firesale. The last thing we need right now is other clubs knowing the finer details on our financial position. We need to max our revenue and there are going to be some hard bargains that have to happen in various areas.

I hope we don't hear from Pace for a few days. I hope he's taking a breath and planning the next steps carefully and without worrying about some of our armchair business experts who wouldn't know one end of a balance sheet from the other.

As I've said before, we know the financial situation to such an extent that someone on here accurately predicted the accounts before publication.

It's not hard 70-80 per cent of the accounts consists of broadcast revenue and players wages. This is not a hard business for most to understand albeit clearly not all.

The "armchair experts" have been pretty reliable as proven by the last set of accounts.

On the other hand, the general complaint from the media is that the club has been somewhat less than reliable.

Of course, I would expect any Chief Executive to respond to persistent negative media coverage, particularly, if I was looking for investment.

And finally, I am reliably informed by the association for half-wits, the representative body for half-wits nationwide, that the best place to find one, for those who are looking, is in a mirror.

[NewClaret]

We can only speculate of course but it would seem to me that even if the PL told a club they weren’t in breach, there could still be a claim if legally they were and the PL had acted unwisely.

Then we come to the size of the claim. A few things spring to mind.

1. Loss of TV money, not just next season, but also seasons beyond that (the odds of winning promotion are longer than the odds of staying up so it becomes a year after year headwind on income)

2. Loss of commercial and ticket income (BFC will now have a far lower profile, this also affects them for many years potentially)

3. Reduced sale prices for players (e.g. Cornet’s clause which wouldn't have applied had we stayed up).

The clubs income from the PL could have exceeded £1 billion in the 8 years we have been up (I haven’t added that up). That, and the above points, show how the numbers can add up to a huge figure very quickly. We aren’t talking the £20m the Blades got for Tevez any more, numbers must now be much higher.

Just speculating though, but wish the club luck.

The way I see it, is Everton have been financially doping. Not the first by the way, but if there’s rules, and evidence they have been broken (at face value there is but I’m no forensic accountant), then we should deserve financial compensation.

The issue here I imagine is that the PL will argue they’d have been fined rather than points deduction, or a warning for first offence. Will be a first offence, blah blah blah.

I also think the Richarlison flare throwing incident was suspicious and ultimately he kept them up, so inaction there might be a further basis for a claim.

As a BFC fan and given our financial situation, you have to hope something comes of it, anyway.

[It Is What It Is]

Pace will be working hard behind the scenes.
Nobody seems to have confidence in him at all which is really unfair.
Dyche had to go. Tick.
Brought in Cornet. Tick
Brought in Weghorst. Tick..ish
Nearly got Orsic. Great effort but no cigar.
Kompany as manager. Massive Tick.
Kompany will attract good pedigree players.
We are Burnley FC, East Lancashire town which rarely sees the sun. We are ok. A great chance to rebuild a new ish squad.
Have faith in Alan...he will deliver.

[aggi]

Snippet from the Athletic just now which suggests a few options the board are looking at re. finances:

‘There is a perception among some outside the club that Burnley will be forced to generate whatever funds they can through player sales, but the club are determined not to be lowballed or taken advantage of by clubs trying to sign players for cut-price fees. While there is an acceptance that some players will not want or deserve to play in the Championship, the club still hope to get what they view to be value for their players.

The reason for talk of a “fire sale” is the alarming revelation in Burnley’s latest accounts that a “significant portion” of the £65 million that ALK Capital loaned from MSH Holdings as part of its leveraged buyout of the club in December 2020 would be due for repayment if the club was relegated from the Premier League.

As that came to pass, the feeling is Burnley need to secure a quick return to the Premier League before their finances become more problematic as parachute payments, paid over three years, reduce and eventually cease.

The “significant portion” of the MSD loan will be paid over the next two months with the amount known to only those inside the deal. It is understood that could be paid off via two options: using the parachute payments Burnley will receive, believed to be around £45 million for the first season, or by refinancing the loan, which The Athletic understands the club have been exploring.

One option they have through refinancing would be to borrow further to try and maintain an operational budget similar that in the Premier League, so a fire sale would not be required. However, that means further debt added and if the gamble is unsuccessful — then bringing bigger problems.

However, Burnley could also look to refinance the current loan they have by exploring changes to the terms of the interest rate or repayments, thereby not adding any further significant debt. Should one of those solutions be found then Burnley’s immediate financial situation would not require a sale of their assets. Which is not to say they will retain their best players.’

This strikes me as pretty unlikely. The majority of that budget was used for wages and, like most, I'd expect those to drop by 50% or so.

[aggi]

We can only speculate of course but it would seem to me that even if the PL told a club they weren’t in breach, there could still be a claim if legally they were and the PL had acted unwisely.

Then we come to the size of the claim. A few things spring to mind.

1. Loss of TV money, not just next season, but also seasons beyond that (the odds of winning promotion are longer than the odds of staying up so it becomes a year after year headwind on income)

2. Loss of commercial and ticket income (BFC will now have a far lower profile, this also affects them for many years potentially)

3. Reduced sale prices for players (e.g. Cornet’s clause which wouldn't have applied had we stayed up).

The clubs income from the PL could have exceeded £1 billion in the 8 years we have been up (I haven’t added that up). That, and the above points, show how the numbers can add up to a huge figure very quickly. We aren’t talking the £20m the Blades got for Tevez any more, numbers must now be much higher.

Just speculating though, but wish the club luck.

I do quite a lot of work on this kind of thing (not football clubs but the same principle of consequential loss due to things like missold interest rate swaps).

Generally the predictions of lost revenue are pretty wild so I'd fully expect Burnley to claim that if not for Everton's financial doping we would have stayed up and then got into Europe next year.

However, it's pretty clear that Everton are prepared for this. They got someone in to produce a report quantifying those COVID losses and so they're starting on the front foot. We'd need to prove those losses had been exaggerated.

[dsr]

Pace will be working hard behind the scenes.
Nobody seems to have confidence in him at all which is really unfair.
Dyche had to go. Tick.
Brought in Cornet. Tick
Brought in Weghorst. Tick..ish
Nearly got Orsic. Great effort but no cigar.
Kompany as manager. Massive Tick.
Kompany will attract good pedigree players.
We are Burnley FC, East Lancashire town which rarely sees the sun. We are ok. A great chance to rebuild a new ish squad.
Have faith in Alan...he will deliver.

The big minus about Alan Pace is that he (or his investment companies) owe Burnley FC £112m at the last count, and they aren't paying any interest on that loan. Do you have faith that he will pay it back?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I do quite a lot of work on this kind of thing (not football clubs but the same principle of consequential loss due to things like missold interest rate swaps).

Generally the predictions of lost revenue are pretty wild so I'd fully expect Burnley to claim that if not for Everton's financial doping we would have stayed up and then got into Europe next year.

However, it's pretty clear that Everton are prepared for this. They got someone in to produce a report quantifying those COVID losses and so they're starting on the front foot. We'd need to prove those losses had been exaggerated.

Weren't their reported losses 2-3 times higher than clubs of a similar size?

[agreenwood]

Weren't their reported losses 2-3 times higher than clubs of a similar size?

There’s a good Swiss Ramble Twitter thread on it. Some of Everton’s argument appears to be around how Covid significantly depreciated their player value and prevented them from selling assets for the kind of fees that they would otherwise have expected to receive and could have offset their loses/reduced their wage bill.
It looks like they are the only PL club to put so much stock in that argument.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Pace will be working hard behind the scenes.
Nobody seems to have confidence in him at all which is really unfair.
Dyche had to go. Tick.
Brought in Cornet. Tick
Brought in Weghorst. Tick..ish
Nearly got Orsic. Great effort but no cigar.
Kompany as manager. Massive Tick.
Kompany will attract good pedigree players.
We are Burnley FC, East Lancashire town which rarely sees the sun. We are ok. A great chance to rebuild a new ish squad.
Have faith in Alan...he will deliver.

Now this is true optimism. Be blind to everything apart from the positives.

[NewClaret]

This strikes me as pretty unlikely. The majority of that budget was used for wages and, like most, I'd expect those to drop by 50% or so.

The debt as I understand it runs to 2025. There is a term requiring early repayment in relegation. It would seem a simple case of deferring or amending that term vs. adding any new debt, although I’d expect a fee of some description.

Pace inferred in a recent interview that the club were addressing the debt but it would take time, so it’s potentially already reduced to a level MSD feel comfortable with to amend the relegation clause. And if they wish to be longer term financing partners there’s clearly more scope for that in supporting a speedy return to the top flight.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I do quite a lot of work on this kind of thing (not football clubs but the same principle of consequential loss due to things like missold interest rate swaps).

Generally the predictions of lost revenue are pretty wild so I'd fully expect Burnley to claim that if not for Everton's financial doping we would have stayed up and then got into Europe next year.

However, it's pretty clear that Everton are prepared for this. They got someone in to produce a report quantifying those COVID losses and so they're starting on the front foot. We'd need to prove those losses had been exaggerated.

Indeed. It is easy to build arguments towards a huge number but just from lost profits alone based on the last 2-3 years of pre Covid accounts it would be substantial. Relegation odds are always odds against so the likelihood would have been for at least 2 more seasons.

But a court would rule on balance of probabilities with both sides having built a good legal argument so to avoid this risk it is easy to imagine a settlement that doesn’t prove disastrous to any one party, including the PL whose brand they won’t want affecting by a very public legal case.

Instinctively doesn’t feel like something that should be ignored by our club even though we don’t have the facts to gauge chances of success.

[aggi]

Weren't their reported losses 2-3 times higher than clubs of a similar size?

Yes, other clubs were much lower. In addition to lost matchday revenue, TV rebates, etc. Everton made an "interesting" argument that the pandemic meant that they couldn't sell out of favour players so the loss of transfer fees, amortisation and wages on those players was a COVID loss.

[Lancasterclaret]

Did they include the Sigurdsson losses in the COVID loss?

Or had they already accounted for it?

That is a £50 million loss right there

[dushanbe]

Pace will be working hard behind the scenes.
Nobody seems to have confidence in him at all which is really unfair.
Dyche had to go. Tick.
Brought in Cornet. Tick
Brought in Weghorst. Tick..ish
Nearly got Orsic. Great effort but no cigar.
Kompany as manager. Massive Tick.
Kompany will attract good pedigree players.
We are Burnley FC, East Lancashire town which rarely sees the sun. We are ok. A great chance to rebuild a new ish squad.
Have faith in Alan...he will deliver.

Thanks for the update Al.

[Quickenthetempo]

If I was a judge I would rule, all the Everton over spending is what got them in a relegation fight in the first place.

[ClaretPete001]

Snippet from the Athletic just now which suggests a few options the board are looking at re. finances:

‘There is a perception among some outside the club that Burnley will be forced to generate whatever funds they can through player sales, but the club are determined not to be lowballed or taken advantage of by clubs trying to sign players for cut-price fees. While there is an acceptance that some players will not want or deserve to play in the Championship, the club still hope to get what they view to be value for their players.

The reason for talk of a “fire sale” is the alarming revelation in Burnley’s latest accounts that a “significant portion” of the £65 million that ALK Capital loaned from MSH Holdings as part of its leveraged buyout of the club in December 2020 would be due for repayment if the club was relegated from the Premier League.

As that came to pass, the feeling is Burnley need to secure a quick return to the Premier League before their finances become more problematic as parachute payments, paid over three years, reduce and eventually cease.

The “significant portion” of the MSD loan will be paid over the next two months with the amount known to only those inside the deal. It is understood that could be paid off via two options: using the parachute payments Burnley will receive, believed to be around £45 million for the first season, or by refinancing the loan, which The Athletic understands the club have been exploring.

One option they have through refinancing would be to borrow further to try and maintain an operational budget similar that in the Premier League, so a fire sale would not be required. However, that means further debt added and if the gamble is unsuccessful — then bringing bigger problems.

However, Burnley could also look to refinance the current loan they have by exploring changes to the terms of the interest rate or repayments, thereby not adding any further significant debt. Should one of those solutions be found then Burnley’s immediate financial situation would not require a sale of their assets. Which is not to say they will retain their best players.’

Fundamentally wrong - the parachute payments are not additional revenue they reflect a loss of revenue of up to £50 million.

If, as most suspect, wages reduce by half they will still be in the region of £40 - £50 million pounds. The parachute payments will largely be consumed paying for those wages. The matchday revenue will be less than £20 million and will account for non-wage expenditure, which is currently around £16 million.

On top of that there is the issue of MSDs capital repayments and the related interest. In addition, the £68 million owed to former owners.

Of course, ALK can kick the various cans down the road but awaiting the club in years 2 and 3 is the loss of a further £50 - £60 million worth of broadcast income.

If the board kicks the can down the road they will end up in Yr 3 with large capital and interest payments on a turnover of less than £20 million.

[RVclaret]

Fundamentally wrong - the parachute payments are not additional revenue they reflect a loss of revenue of up to £50 million.

If, as most suspect, wages reduce by half they will still be in the region of £40 - £50 million pounds. The parachute payments will largely be consumed paying for those wages. The matchday revenue will be less than £20 million and will account for non-wage expenditure, which is currently around £16 million.

On top of that there is the issue of MSDs capital repayments and the related interest. In addition, the £68 million owed to former owners.

Of course, ALK can kick the various cans down the road but awaiting the club in years 2 and 3 is the loss of a further £50 - £60 million worth of broadcast income.

If the board kicks the can down the road they will end up in Yr 3 with large capital and interest payments on a turnover of less than £20 million.

Agree Pete - I keep seeing parachute payments will pay off the debt but I don’t see how that is possible. Year 1 they will absolutely be needed for the wage bill. My forecast for that is around £40m given the supposed 40/50% cut, big earners leaving and many OOC’s leaving.

[ClaretTony]

Pace will be working hard behind the scenes.
Nobody seems to have confidence in him at all which is really unfair.
Dyche had to go. Tick.
Brought in Cornet. Tick
Brought in Weghorst. Tick..ish
Nearly got Orsic. Great effort but no cigar.
Kompany as manager. Massive Tick.
Kompany will attract good pedigree players.
We are Burnley FC, East Lancashire town which rarely sees the sun. We are ok. A great chance to rebuild a new ish squad.
Have faith in Alan...he will deliver.

Very good

[Sleeping Cat]

Pace will be working hard behind the scenes.
Nobody seems to have confidence in him at all which is really unfair.
Dyche had to go. Tick.
Brought in Cornet. Tick
Brought in Weghorst. Tick..ish
Nearly got Orsic. Great effort but no cigar.
Kompany as manager. Massive Tick.
Kompany will attract good pedigree players.
We are Burnley FC, East Lancashire town which rarely sees the sun. We are ok. A great chance to rebuild a new ish squad.
Have faith in Alan...he will deliver.

Relegation. Tick. Forces us to pay back half the MSD loan and therefore reduce the debt

[CleggHall]

It is What it Is - a new poster with a particular insight into the club’s new owners, chairman of Alan’s fanclub!?

[lrac]

Pace will be working hard behind the scenes.
Nobody seems to have confidence in him at all which is really unfair.
Dyche had to go. Tick.
Brought in Cornet. Tick
Brought in Weghorst. Tick..ish
Nearly got Orsic. Great effort but no cigar.
Kompany as manager. Massive Tick.
Kompany will attract good pedigree players.
We are Burnley FC, East Lancashire town which rarely sees the sun. We are ok. A great chance to rebuild a new ish squad.
Have faith in Alan...he will deliver.

Well said Alan

[FCBurnley]

Appalling lack of contact from Pace. Treating the fans with contempt in my opinion.

[Chester Perry]

On the subject of refinancing the debt - which is a sound idea IF you can bring down the overall costs specifically interest charges plus capital and not forgetting the cost of the penalties for exiting the current deal

Manchester United did this when they PROVED their financial model and managed to escape the clutches of the Payment in Kind notes and their eye watering interest rates. In that example rates were reduced by around 50%-60%,

For a newly relegated club with a far from proven model it is difficult to imagine how they will reduce the rates significantly. Add the fact that MSD have a very clear policy on penalties for early repayment - I estimate they will be asking for at least £20m for lost interest at NPV

so a refinance may be of £65m but the club will (as the 'obligor') have to stump up the penalty fee from it's cash flow or wrap it up into the new loan

There will be a fee for the setting up of any new loan also - I strongly believe the fee for setting up the MSD loan was rolled into that sum (based on the information from MSD's accounts about the amount of money, in USD, they brought into the UK and the exchange rates at the time of the loans to Southampton, Derby and ourselves - and yes that would mean the club is paying £200k - £300k interest on the loan fee) so see no reason why VSL would not follow the same plan in a refinance,

Would anyone loan our club even greater sums to cover all the above costs and/or the remaining sums to the sellers (I am still concerned about that payment that is scheduled for next month) it is not impossible but it is unlikely. Of course what VSL now are close to having is complete ownership over the total equity of the club (if we include the ringfence on the remaining shares of the previous administration. This I imagine is worth something to a lender (given the parachute payments currently inflate the value of the club)

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Appalling lack of contact from Pace. Treating the fans with contempt in my opinion.

He's kind of busy, but I'm struggling to understand what exactly it is certain fans are expecting to hear from Pace.

He's in the process of hiring a new manager and coaching staff.
He's in the process of appealing to the PL about Everton.
He's in the process of sorting out the club's finances.

Please feel free to tell me what exactly you want to hear from him and why you feel so entitled to hear anything.

[Vegas Claret]

Yes, other clubs were much lower. In addition to lost matchday revenue, TV rebates, etc. Everton made an "interesting" argument that the pandemic meant that they couldn't sell out of favour players so the loss of transfer fees, amortisation and wages on those players was a COVID loss.

they are arguing the transfer market depreciated - CIty just paid 150 million for Haaland, there's the proof it hasn't depreciated !!

[Mala591]

Pace will be working hard behind the scenes.
Nobody seems to have confidence in him at all which is really unfair.
Dyche had to go. Tick.
Brought in Cornet. Tick
Brought in Weghorst. Tick..ish
Nearly got Orsic. Great effort but no cigar.
Kompany as manager. Massive Tick.
Kompany will attract good pedigree players.
We are Burnley FC, East Lancashire town which rarely sees the sun. We are ok. A great chance to rebuild a new ish squad.
Have faith in Alan...he will deliver.

Exciting times. Tick

[Vegas Claret]

Appalling lack of contact from Pace. Treating the fans with contempt in my opinion.

we are dissapointed to be relegated, it isn't what we wanted
Here's the new manager, there will be some money to spend to help us get back to the Premier League

Doubt you'll hear anything other than that and nor should you

[Newcastleclaret93]

they are arguing the transfer market depreciated - CIty just paid 150 million for Haaland, there's the proof it hasn't depreciated !!

City paid 50m for Haaland

[Chester Perry]

He's kind of busy, but I'm struggling to understand what exactly it is certain fans are expecting to hear from Pace.

He's in the process of hiring a new manager and coaching staff.
He's in the process of appealing to the PL about Everton.
He's in the process of sorting out the club's finances.

Please feel free to tell me what exactly you want to hear from him and why you feel so entitled to hear anything.

The one thing I have noticed about our Chairman is that he appears to be or likes to appear to be (to be honest I hope it is the latter) into the detail of everything - to me that is poor management, where is his time to think and make rational decisions, where is the delegation to and trust of his team - he has brought an awful lot of people through the door on the administration/business side. Such a hands on (with everything, all the time) approach does not bode well for any business of this size.

[NRC]

they are arguing the transfer market depreciated - CIty just paid 150 million for Haaland, there's the proof it hasn't depreciated !!

surely, transfer market depreciation is quantifiable. Any decent brief would be pulling that data out. If proven to be false, then they haven't a leg. If proven to be true, then we can still go at it in terms of depth of depreciation and apply it in the argument

[Vegas Claret]

City paid 50m for Haaland

did they not bother with a huge signing fee and 350K wage then ? I must have missed that

[Chester Perry]

did they not bother with a huge signing fee and 350K wage then ? I must have missed that

They did benefit from a fixed price deal that ensured that Haaland's agent and management were very well remunerated (certainly much more than the rules FIFA are trying to impose would allow) but then had to agree to a similar structure for the next sale in a few years put in place for the same reasons - I am hoping that the system will have collapsed by then but do not have much expectation that it will

[agreenwood]

Haaland’s agent reportedly received £40m or E40m as part of the deal.

[Paul Waine]

On the subject of refinancing the debt - which is a sound idea IF you can bring down the overall costs specifically interest charges plus capital and not forgetting the cost of the penalties for exiting the current deal

Manchester United did this when they PROVED their financial model and managed to escape the clutches of the Payment in Kind notes and their eye watering interest rates. In that example rates were reduced by around 50%-60%,

For a newly relegated club with a far from proven model it is difficult to imagine how they will reduce the rates significantly. Add the fact that MSD have a very clear policy on penalties for early repayment - I estimate they will be asking for at least £20m for lost interest at NPV

so a refinance may be of £65m but the club will (as the 'obligor') have to stump up the penalty fee from it's cash flow or wrap it up into the new loan

There will be a fee for the setting up of any new loan also - I strongly believe the fee for setting up the MSD loan was rolled into that sum (based on the information from MSD's accounts about the amount of money, in USD, they brought into the UK and the exchange rates at the time of the loans to Southampton, Derby and ourselves - and yes that would mean the club is paying £200k - £300k interest on the loan fee) so see no reason why VSL would not follow the same plan in a refinance,

Would anyone loan our club even greater sums to cover all the above costs and/or the remaining sums to the sellers (I am still concerned about that payment that is scheduled for next month) it is not impossible but it is unlikely. Of course what VSL now are close to having is complete ownership over the total equity of the club (if we include the ringfence on the remaining shares of the previous administration. This I imagine is worth something to a lender (given the parachute payments currently inflate the value of the club)

Hi CP, I'm in no doubt that Alan Pace will only re-negotiate the term loan with MSD if it is in ALK's interest to do this. Any such re-negotiation, if it was done in ALK's interest would also be in BFC's interest. I mention this bit, as lawyers would say, for the avoidance of doubt. We shouldn't forget that Alan Pace and his ALK colleagues have significant experience in investment banking. They will be equal in knowledge to MSD in the terms achievable with a loan re-negotiation and the fees that may apply.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The one thing I have noticed about our Chairman is that he appears to be or likes to appear to be (to be honest I hope it is the latter) into the detail of everything - to me that is poor management, where is his time to think and make rational decisions, where is the delegation to and trust of his team - he has brought an awful lot of people through the door on the administration/business side. Such a hands on (with everything, all the time) approach does not bode well for any business of this size.

That may or may not be the case, but that's a different discussion for another day.
He's the main figurehead for ALK though so it doesn't surprise me that he appears to be involved with everything.

It could well change when things have settled down.

[ClaretTony]

Appalling lack of contact from Pace. Treating the fans with contempt in my opinion.

Don’t think anyone expected anything different sadly.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Those who are annoyed that Pace hasn't been in touch yet, what would you like him to say ?

The non stop bitching at the new owners due to not liking them is very boring

[RVclaret]

Don’t think anyone expected anything different sadly.

What would you have liked to hear?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Do others clubs owners offer constant updates to fans? I’d prefer them to communicate when they’ve got something important to say like announcing a new manager.

[Paul Waine]

The one thing I have noticed about our Chairman is that he appears to be or likes to appear to be (to be honest I hope it is the latter) into the detail of everything - to me that is poor management, where is his time to think and make rational decisions, where is the delegation to and trust of his team - he has brought an awful lot of people through the door on the administration/business side. Such a hands on (with everything, all the time) approach does not bode well for any business of this size.

It's a good thing that Alan Pace is detailed and "hands on" with all the big things for the club. He's not running the ticket office or the club shop orders system. He's not running the player training and coaching. He should be all over everything that impacts the club's finances. As a business entity, a football club, is not so large that it needs lots of executives to make the entity operate. So, Alan Pace, with his immediate colleagues, looking after the big financial items and the big budget items, including "hiring and firing" the manager/coach.

[dsr]

Hi CP, I'm in no doubt that Alan Pace will only re-negotiate the term loan with MSD if it is in ALK's interest to do this. Any such re-negotiation, if it was done in ALK's interest would also be in BFC's interest. I mention this bit, as lawyers would say, for the avoidance of doubt. We shouldn't forget that Alan Pace and his ALK colleagues have significant experience in investment banking. They will be equal in knowledge to MSD in the terms achievable with a loan re-negotiation and the fees that may apply.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Remember that ALK is basically bankrupt, because they have one asset (Burnley FC) and huge liabilities (owed to Garlick and to BFC). Unless they can sell BFC for something north of £160m, the beneficial owners of ALK get nothing. They are bust.

So ALK's best policy, if their owners want to get some money back, is to throw more money (not their own, obviously!) at getting back into the PL. If it works, then yes, it's the best policy for BFC and for ALK. If it doesn't work, it makes no difference at all to ALK but it might result in the end of BFC.

If Burnley FC lose £10m or £50m or £100m, it does not make ALK any worse off. That's the reason they are likely to try and spend their way out of trouble, because it costs them nothing if it fails - not because it's necessarily the best thing for BFC.

[FCBurnley]

He's kind of busy, but I'm struggling to understand what exactly it is certain fans are expecting to hear from Pace.

He's in the process of hiring a new manager and coaching staff.
He's in the process of appealing to the PL about Everton.
He's in the process of sorting out the club's finances.

Please feel free to tell me what exactly you want to hear from him and why you feel so entitled to hear anything.

I would like to know what has happened to MJ
I would like to know why the club did not have two financial plans already in existence ( assuming that he is only just working on it as you say )
I would like to know what he hopes to achieve by appealing to PL
Let’s start with those 3

[RVclaret]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Remember that ALK is basically bankrupt, because they have one asset (Burnley FC) and huge liabilities (owed to Garlick and to BFC). Unless they can sell BFC for something north of £160m, the beneficial owners of ALK get nothing. They are bust.

So ALK's best policy, if their owners want to get some money back, is to throw more money (not their own, obviously!) at getting back into the PL. If it works, then yes, it's the best policy for BFC and for ALK. If it doesn't work, it makes no difference at all to ALK but it might result in the end of BFC.

If Burnley FC lose £10m or £50m or £100m, it does not make ALK any worse off. That's the reason they are likely to try and spend their way out of trouble, because it costs them nothing if it fails - not because it's necessarily the best thing for BFC.

You are assuming ALK and Pace want to completely destroy Burnley FC, completely and utterly ruin their reputations in the industry and never be able to continue with their ultimate goal of owning more clubs. As well as lose out on whatever funds they have put up themselves, which could be a fair whack of their own net wealth.

[FCBurnley]

In my opinion ( which is worthless) ALK gambled on not being relegated and lost As DSR says ALK are actually Bankrupt

[DCWat]

That may or may not be the case, but that's a different discussion for another day.
He's the main figurehead for ALK though so it doesn't surprise me that he appears to be involved with everything.

It could well change when things have settled down.

He shouldn’t be involved with everything though should he? Certainly not if he’s brought in adequately qualified individuals that he can trust to fulfil their duties and the expectations laid out.

If he doesn’t have people in these positions that he can delegate to, or still feels the need to be heavily involved, it doesn’t suggest he’s got a team upon which he can rely. If this is the case, considering all the changes in personnel at the club, it’s concerning on a few fronts.

The potential downgrading of the academy is a point in case. We don’t know what has gone on, or potentially not gone on, but what we do know is that it’s on Pace’s watch. The academy was, we were told, an important part of ALK’s strategy. It would be anything but a ringing endorsement if we are to be downgraded.

Dyche said as much himself - football clubs are successful when everyone, fans, team, management and board and pulling in the same direction. For me, I want Pace to be leading on that front and that probably includes addressing some of the continuing concerns. It doesn’t mean being privy to the inner workings of their financial plan.

[Nori1958]

Do others clubs owners offer constant updates to fans? I’d prefer them to communicate when they’ve got something important to say like announcing a new manager.

Just like previous burnley chairmen.....

[RVclaret]

In my opinion ( which is worthless) ALK gambled on not being relegated and lost As DSR says ALK are actually Bankrupt

ALK took over Burnley FC when we were in 17th place last season and in the midst of a horrible run of form, while no fans were in stadiums. Relegation was already a high possibility at that point. It would be incredibly naive for them to not have any 'plan B' when 4 months after their takeover, they could already be in the league below. We were lucky that season that there were 3 really bad teams below us.

[Tall Paul]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Remember that ALK is basically bankrupt, because they have one asset (Burnley FC) and huge liabilities (owed to Garlick and to BFC). Unless they can sell BFC for something north of £160m, the beneficial owners of ALK get nothing. They are bust.

So ALK's best policy, if their owners want to get some money back, is to throw more money (not their own, obviously!) at getting back into the PL. If it works, then yes, it's the best policy for BFC and for ALK. If it doesn't work, it makes no difference at all to ALK but it might result in the end of BFC.

If Burnley FC lose £10m or £50m or £100m, it does not make ALK any worse off. That's the reason they are likely to try and spend their way out of trouble, because it costs them nothing if it fails - not because it's necessarily the best thing for BFC.

The Daily Mail article linked earlier in this thread says that "ALK may be forced to use the assets of their American media and technology companies to secure another loan", so perhaps Burnley FC isn't their only asset.