Talk BFC

[Herts Clarets]

https://youtu.be/pVKYqUnagn0

Never seen or heard of this You Tube channel before but i had a link sent to me of this clip. Not sure who the caller is - says he will remain anonymous, but is an American who seems to have knowledge of how Pace and ALK could have structured the borrowing to avoid paying tax in the States and could be at a much more favourable interest rate that has been reported previously.

Anyone with more financial knowledge than me listen to this and add any thoughts or detail?

[Andingle]

Blakesboots ?

[Woody9229]

No one is more cynical than me about Mr Pace and ALK and certainly it is strange that a US based Burnley fan calls a 1k subscriber You Tube channel to put in his fourpenneth in. However a lot of what he says is interesting and credible. If he is an ALK stooge its not a particularly effective forum to disseminate an alternative narrative. Its not even gaining traction on here. Paces reaction to the latest Athletic article on our financials hints that what this caller has a point. This seems to be along he lines of "how stupid do you think we are?" "we know what we are doing" "in fact what we are doing is real smart" but in essence doesn't tell us anything remotely constructive about what the actual situation is. Certainly though if they have borrowed so much money at such stupidly high interest rates the ALK business model doesn't work in the Championship and would not work well in the Premier League. Kieran Maguire says The Glazers have paid £870 million in interest since they bought UTD!!! Ultimately though his conclusion is that we could be in a much better situation than what the media are saying OR absolutely F****d. No middle ground. Most of us feel this to be the case which is why many of us are so worried and desperate to hear some transparent and coherent communication from Pace that directly addresses these concerns and even better give us hope that we will set up to be competitive in the championship. Actions speak louder than words though and a positive and promising Managerial appointment will go a long way to pointing the way this is likely to go. Nervous doesn't even cover how I feel at the moment.

[bumba]

Thing is tho if Pace comes out and says we've this much in the kitty we've sorted this deal and that deal which leaves us 12 months to get promoted and X amount of money then every transfer we go for gets inflated.
We're not entitled to know the ins and outs and sometimes it's best not to know because of the negativity it can carry through the club and fanbase.
Let's judge this season, it certainly wasn't Pace's fault we got relegated and he made some big calls to give us a shot on the last day.

[Herts Clarets]

The call was strange to say the least. Clearly an American, clearly has an insight into how the financial side of things work and how interest rates are pegged dependent on how the borrowing is arranged, constantly referred to BFC as "we" and mentioned the likes of Pope and Cornet as saleable assets (from memory, i listened at 5:30 this morning in the car).

It suggests to me that he is either one of the ALK team, or a stooge who has been put up to get information across and try to allay fan's fears without anything official being released and revealing that we are not as screwed as the media reports claim.

[Chester Perry]

https://youtu.be/pVKYqUnagn0

Never seen or heard of this You Tube channel before but i had a link sent to me of this clip. Not sure who the caller is - says he will remain anonymous, but is an American who seems to have knowledge of how Pace and ALK could have structured the borrowing to avoid paying tax in the States and could be at a much more favourable interest rate that has been reported previously.

Anyone with more financial knowledge than me listen to this and add any thoughts or detail?

it's total crap

Burnley FC Holdings Limited Notes to the Financial Statements for the year ended July 31 2021

18. Loans and overdrafts

Included within other loans is an amount of £65,000,000 which arose following transactions linked to the acquisition of the group during the year.

This balance bears interest of LIBOR + 8% per annum and is secured by way of fixed and floating charges over the assets of the company and its fellow group undertakings The Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited and Longside Properties Limited. The interest payments on the loan have been made by the company’s subsidiary, The Burnley Football & Athletic Club Limited. It is anticipated that future interest payments are likely to be made by the company’s subsidiary, The Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited and that it will remain involved in the financing of future capital repayments on behalf of Burnley FC Holdings Limited.

The capital element of the loan is due for repayment in December 2025, with interest only payments being required up to that point, providing the club remains in the Premier League. In the event of the club’s relegation from the Premier League, the repayment schedule for the capital elementof the loan is brought forward, with significantproportionfalling due for repayment shortly after the end of the football season in which the relegation takes place. This repayment would, therefore, be expected to fall due within less than one year from the balance sheet date in these circumstances. In a continuing relegation scenario, a further significant reduction of the loan balance would also take place in the following season. These amounts are subject to agreement between the parties.

........................................................................

Spezia was bought by Robert Piatek's family not ALK (ALK were never in the picture) - Robert Piatek is the key figure behind MSD UK Holdings Limited.

[Sleeping Cat]

The idea that ALK have a big stash of cash behind the scenes and have only done a leveraged buyout for tax purposes doesn't explain how they continuously miss the payments to buy the club.

[NewClaret]

The idea that ALK have a big stash of cash behind the scenes and have only done a leveraged buyout for tax purposes doesn't explain how they continuously miss the payments to buy the club.

How do you know this? That is publicly denied by Pace, Garlick and JB.

[NewClaret]

it's total crap

Pretty much my thoughts.

Wasn’t really sure what he was on about, sensed he was suggesting our debt is secured against other assets (debt books) thus attracting a lower interest rate. Which would be an interesting thought were it not clearly stated in the accounts - which he obviously didn’t know.

It’s not infeasible that there’s more money behind ALK than we know about, or that the complex debt/corporate structure is set up to provide tax advantages though. And I do think the share repurchase and ALK’s hinting that they were/are considering a foreign team purchase are reasons for some optimism.

Pretty sure he wasn’t an ALK voice though - he wasn’t very reassuring if he was

[Sleeping Cat]

How do you know this? That is publicly denied by Pace, Garlick and JB.

I remember Pace saying something like "all payments have been made in the agreed timeframes" which is technically true as every for every instalment the timeframe to pay it was extended by request of ALK. I haven't seen any comment from Garlic or John B on the matter.

[NewClaret]

I remember Pace saying something like "all payments have been made in the agreed timeframes" which is technically true as every for every instalment the timeframe to pay it was extended by request of ALK. I haven't seen any comment from Garlic or John B on the matter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlanPaceBFC/ ... bX45gpAAAA

To summarise:

- reports of delays inaccurate
- payments made on time
- in full
- future schedule in good order
- signed by all three of them

Basically rumours not fact according to them.

[Vegas Claret]

even Simon Jordan in his scathing attacks on Pace and Co has said all payments have been made

[Chester Perry]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlanPaceBFC/ ... bX45gpAAAA

To summarise:

- reports of delays inaccurate
- payments made on time
- in full
- future schedule in good order
- signed by all three of them

Basically rumours not fact according to them.

As far as I am aware there has been no formal default on the payments - payments due late last summer and again in March were overdue - so late last summer that there was a reschedule from the original agreement - which made sense because there was still optimism about the season and opportunity to bring on board the much sough after new investors - which the sellers had been told were likely to join when they sold the club in December 2020.

I believe that in March there was much less tolerance of the delay and if payments were not made in a defined period then contractual clauses would have been used to enact legal proceedings - then we had the news of the extra £10m taken out of the club in the accounts and the factoring of the outstanding balance for Chris Wood - the last two items could be co-incidence but the timing was interesting to me at least

[Elbarad]

So first off, I fully accept that posters like CP are giving their best and honest opinions when they point to their concerns about the finances of the club. But I have to say I fall into the camp of ‘surely they’re not idiots’ regarding the team who negotiated and bought the club. Clearly we’d be better off if we had stayed up but it can’t have been considered to be impossible that we would go down and I believe they will have planned for such an occurrence.

We shall see I suppose, but there’s f### all we can do about at this point. Or at any point for that matter.

[Sleeping Cat]

As far as I am aware there has been no formal default on the payments - payments due late last summer and again in March were overdue - so late last summer that there was a reschedule from the original agreement - which made sense because there was still optimism about the season and opportunity to bring on board the much sough after new investors - which the sellers had been told were likely to join when they sold the club in December 2020.

I believe that in March there was much less tolerance of the delay and if payments were not made in a defined period then contractual clauses would have been used to enact legal proceedings - then we had the news of the extra £10m taken out of the club in the accounts and the factoring of the outstanding balance for Chris Wood - the last two items could be co-incidence but the timing was interesting to me at least

This part. Payment have been made, but they were not made according to the timings in the original payment schedule. Of course they will come out and dismiss talk of missed payments as "rumours" because in the end they were paid, but only after ALK requested extension to pay them. It's in Garlic & John B's interest to agree and permit more time to allow the payments to be fulfilled so they get the money they are owed.

Incidentally, I know the next instalment was due in April and I believe this has also currently not been paid.

[Vegas Claret]

Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 6:47 am
I remember Pace saying something like "all payments have been made in the agreed timeframes" which is technically true as every for every instalment the timeframe to pay it was extended by request of ALK. I haven't seen any comment from Garlic or John B on the matter.

then

"Sleeping Cat" post_id=1822367 time=1653489931 user_id=396]
Payment have been made, but they were not made according to the timings in the original payment schedule

make your mind up

[Sleeping Cat]

Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 6:47 am
I remember Pace saying something like "all payments have been made in the agreed timeframes" which is technically true as every for every instalment the timeframe to pay it was extended by request of ALK. I haven't seen any comment from Garlic or John B on the matter.

then

"Sleeping Cat" post_id=1822367 time=1653489931 user_id=396]
Payment have been made, but they were not made according to the timings in the original payment schedule

make your mind up

I'm saying the same thing in both posts. Payments have so far been made, but each one was late as ALK requested more time to pay it, henceforth they were not made according to the timings in the original payment schedule