Burnley fans being over-optimistic?

[LoveCurryPies]

I see a lot of Burnley fans on social media (and this forum) making really positive forecasts re the new season. That’s not a bad thing but I can’t see much evidence for this positivity.

Is there not a danger that having such high hopes they might quickly turn to disappointment and then anger? Will this forum become a list of threads attacking owner, manager and individual players?

[LordBob]

I'm not going to change a habit of a lifetime I'll stay pessimistic as usual UTC

[Top Claret]

I have always been a person of pessimism that way when things go ti*ts up you aren't to disappointed

Wouldn't like to make any predictions at this stage until the transfer window closes as there will be plenty of moves and shakes by the end of August

[eastcoastclaret]

It's a year of transition. Suspect a slow start and then begin to put a few results together after World Cup. We may make play offs, we may not.

[claptrappers_union]

I don't think we have sold the quality of players to get us promoted this time. Not that I'm begin pessimistic, but we are starting the foundations to get promoted maybe in two years time.

[Tall Paul]

I see a lot of Burnley fans on social media (and this forum) making really positive forecasts re the new season. That’s not a bad thing but I can’t see much evidence for this positivity.

Is there not a danger that having such high hopes they might quickly turn to disappointment and then anger? Will this forum become a list of threads attacking owner, manager and individual players?

Become?

[claretbob]

The reason for the positivity is VK himself. It was a great lift after relegation that he still wanted to join us and he impresses more and more whenever he is interviewed. The signings look really sensible and there is an excitement around the club we haven’t had for years. Lapsed season ticket holders I know have renewed and the uncertainty as to exactly how we will play adds to the mix. Feel genuinely sorry for the more pessimistic members on this MB who are missing out on the positive vibes. There again what do I know I felt the same way about Bond, Buchan and Waddle!

[cj_lotte]

I think with the sheer turnover of players it will be hard to hit the ground running this season and we may fall short come the end of the season. With the news of Collins leaving I dont think we sould be selling any more players (Cornet's release clause aside - nothing we can do if it is met) having said that, I am fully expecting some more ins and outs before the end of August.

I think it's easy to forget you can buy as many players as you want, that are exciting prospects but they need time to bed in and gel together. Not forgetting with a new manager comes new ideas/formations/tactics so we have to be patient.

I genuinely beleive it is an exciting time to be a claret but as mentioned above - it may be too early for this year to be our season.

[jedi_master]

Impossible to be overly optimistic or overly negative currently.

We need to see how the money we are bringing in is re-invested, and what the the teamsheet is at Huddersfield. We all know the gaping holes in our team if Hennessey, Cornet and Collins go (Striker, Winger, Goalkeeper - possibly Centre Back now, in my opinion. Let's see how they are filled. Kompany has made some imaginative signings thus far, and we need a minimum of three more, possibly four. I'd like to see another centre back coming in now personally - possibly an experienced head on a free like Cahill to provide some nous in there (or, you know, Ben Mee..).

[Woody9229]

I've been thinking this myself. Yes we are in unknown territory by actually signing some players but some folks are reacting as if we are paying tens of millions of pounds and getting these guys in from massive European clubs. I don't get it. Of course I hope they turn out to be absolute gems and this "blind" optimism is rewarded. However its not inconceivable that our starting line up against Huddersfield could be unrecognisable especially if Taylor and Roberts go as well as Collins, Cornet and Mc Neil. Regardless our back 5 is likely to be very inexperienced at this level and combine this with an ageing, injury prone set of strikers who have barely scored 10 goals between them in the least two years then surely it should be cautious optimism and even that tinged with deep concern that such low value signings are gambles and the sales of so many players misguided. I get the excitement of course I do after a dire couple of seasons generally and watching dull uninspired football. Its great that we have a high profile new manager who exudes positivity and confidence but that will fade if the season takes ages to start for us and we lose several derby games especially Rovers. I understand the re-set bit but it feels like its a re-set on speed and this suits the owners agenda of getting money in to pay debt and generally get wages down even more than is sensible. Pace might be a Financier but he is also a gambler as evidenced by sacking Dyche with no replacement and this is starting to feel like an experiment rather then a well thought out plan/strategy. The Happy Clappers will tell me to watch this space before the transfer window closes but hey I've heard that before and as I say I'm just advising caution in terms of expectations.

[Venkys4eva]

I expect us to finish in the top 1... glass overflowing!

[Milltown1882]

Optimism with a dose of realism for me. I believe that World Cup break could be the blessing in disguise for us allowing the squad to gel even further in that break and smash the second half of the season. Time will tell.

[Rileybobs]

I don't think we have sold the quality of players to get us promoted this time. Not that I'm begin pessimistic, but we are starting the foundations to get promoted maybe in two years time.

I don’t really get this idea that we are setting up for promotion in a couple of years time though. Our current advantage over the rest of the division is the quality of the retained squad from last season, and parachute payments. When both of those disappear, why would we have any better chance of promotion than the other 23 clubs in the Championship?

BTW, I’ve been called a happy clapper many times on here. But I just like to be honest, realistic and call things as I see then. I guess given how the last decade has panned out the happy clapping has been justified too.

[GDK]

I'm sure most fans are more realistic than the extremes of opinion we see on here. I'll be happy if we stay clear of relegation and show signs of the new team moulding together.

If VK achieves more than this in his first season as a championship manager, despite the total rebuild he is having to oversee, he'll quickly become a very sought after manager.

[DukeOfBar]

virtually a re-build from the manager throughout most of the team/squad. Fully expecting a season of transistion - neither optimistic nor pessimistic here, just a dose of realism. Fully behind VK and team and hoping that the new era will bring success, but will take time, not expecting promotion next season.

[KRBFC]

As the 3rd relegated PL side, we should be bang on favourites to lift the title. The fact we're like 6th favourites in the betting and some fans seem happy with mid table suggests something has gone seriously wrong somewhere. With the business model under Garlick, there would have been 0 pressure to sell anyone year 1.

[forzagranata]

As it stands, with no experience in the centre of defence, a big question mark over the goalkeeper situation and most of our experience being in the form of two older forwards, we are looking at mid table at best.

But its the 12th of July and the window doesn't close until Sept 1.

If we lose Collins and Cornet and then perhaps McNeil and/or Taylor then we will be downgrading further and could be drawn into the battle at the bottom end.

But if we can keep most of those players and we bring in some quality - including some experience where it is needed most - then those concerns would ease.

But at the moment we simply don't know what kind of team we will have out against Huddersfield.

[gawthorpe_view]

I'm a Burnley supporter therefore, by default, my glass is always half-empty.




With a hole in the bottom.

[Hipper]

As the 3rd relegated PL side, we should be bang on favourites to lift the title. The fact we're like 6th favourites in the betting and some fans seem happy with mid table suggests something has gone seriously wrong somewhere. With the business model under Garlick, there would have been 0 pressure to sell anyone year 1.

The business model under Garlic that you refer to has gone, ended by Garlic himself in order to find new owners for the club. Perhaps the window last season where Collins, Roberts and, maybe, Cornet, were brought in was how it could have been, and perhaps would have been this year had we not been relegated. Clearly the gamble Garlic and especially Pace took failed - we are relegated.

It is though an interesting question. Could a Garlic owned club with no need to pay off debts or investors have a budget that would get us promoted back immediately - perhaps with Dyche still in charge? I would say 'only if the business model had allowed Dyche to strengthen the team in the previous seasons'. Had we got relegated with the existing squad I think 'no'. It is just not good enough and needs too many replacements. We would still have to deal with the losses of Tarkowski, Mee, Weghorst, and probably Pope, Collins and Cornet, just as now.

[Jamesy]

I will be happy if we finish above Rovers, Preston and Blackpool. If we do we should be on the fringe or in the play offs. It will be a tall order though in Kompany’s first season.

[fatboy47]

As the 3rd relegated PL side, we should be bang on favourites to lift the title. The fact we're like 6th favourites in the betting and some fans seem happy with mid table suggests something has gone seriously wrong somewhere. .

Bang on the money.


Operation "lower /eradicate expectations" is on track.

[eastcoastclaret]

As the 3rd relegated PL side, we should be bang on favourites to lift the title. The fact we're like 6th favourites in the betting and some fans seem happy with mid table suggests something has gone seriously wrong somewhere. With the business model under Garlick, there would have been 0 pressure to sell anyone year 1.

Or the majority are just being realistic and know that we had an old squad that needs replacing, and a new manager who plays a completely new style of football.

Let's face it, Collins didn't even return to training with the rest of the international players. He didn't want to play for the club, it wouldn't matter who the chairman was.

[fatboy47]

Or the majority are just being realistic and know that we had an old squad that needs replacing,

Wow!! Really? Mee.. Tarks.. Pope.. Collins.....thats who's left us so far.... They needed replacing? Really?

The ones in need of replacing will be the ones we're left with...trust me.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Will this forum become a list of threads attacking owner, manager and individual players?

It was pretty normal for this place to turn into a vitriolic mess after a strong of bad results under Dyche, with players, manager and owners targeted with some really stupid over reactions

There were several posters on here that only popped up during a transfer window or after a run of poor results and they were negative in everything they posted 99% of the time.

The optimism is welcome after seeing the misery enjoyed by some.

[RVclaret]

Wow!! Really? Mee.. Tarks.. Pope.. Collins.....thats who's left us so far.... They needed replacing? Really?

The ones in need of replacing will be the ones we're left with...trust me.

Trust me bro.

Btw what on earth are you talking about?

[eastcoastclaret]

Wow!! Really? Mee.. Tarks.. Pope.. Collins.....thats who's left us so far.... They needed replacing? Really?

The ones in need of replacing will be the ones we're left with...trust me.

If a player wants to leave, they leave.

It's the reality of modern football.

[fatboy47]

If a player wants to leave, they leave.

It's the reality of modern football.

Agreed.... But you said they "needed replacing"

[Newcastleclaret93]

It’s certainly an interesting one.

I was feeling very optimistic but the loss of Collins has completely knocked the stuffing out of me.

It would be an interesting scenario if we got to the last ten games and were mid table. Would Kompanys head be on the chopping board (I think it could be).

[tiger76]

Wow!! Really? Mee.. Tarks.. Pope.. Collins.....thats who's left us so far.... They needed replacing? Really?

The ones in need of replacing will be the ones we're left with...trust me.

Not really we've got Bardsley, Lennon, Pieters and Stephens off the wage bill, and all 4 were squad players at best, so those 4 alone going should save us a fair wedge in salaries, plus free up places for new signings to take, who will hopefully bring more to the table in terms of 1st team contributions.

Mee and Tarks were both OOC, so there was little we could do to keep them alas, Collins and Pope are both going out the door for a combined £30m minimum, and apart from Collins all those mentioned are 30+, so people who wished for us to bring the average age of the squad down should be happy that we're now clearing out the deadwood and replacing them with promising youth, yes there's an element of risk attached to this policy, but equally we could reap huge rewards if it works as we hope it will.

[Vegas Claret]

I'm expecting nothing

[Terrier]

I think we will finish 21st, just above blackburn.

[KRBFC]

Wow!! Really? Mee.. Tarks.. Pope.. Collins.....thats who's left us so far.... They needed replacing? Really?

The ones in need of replacing will be the ones we're left with...trust me.

Agree with this, the ones who needed replacing were given new deals or will remain here. Gudmundsson Westwood Cork Rodriguez Barnes were the ones who needed replacing, ones who played regularly and ones who were key in our teams decline. Bardsley, Stephens barely featured at all.

[claptrappers_union]

I don’t really get this idea that we are setting up for promotion in a couple of years time though. Our current advantage over the rest of the division is the quality of the retained squad from last season, and parachute payments. When both of those disappear, why would we have any better chance of promotion than the other 23 clubs in the Championship?

BTW, I’ve been called a happy clapper many times on here. But I just like to be honest, realistic and call things as I see then. I guess given how the last decade has panned out the happy clapping has been justified too.

I've just realised that auto-correct changed signed to sold, anyway, I'm not optimistic about getting promoted this season.

[Rileybobs]

I've just realised that auto-correct changed signed to sold, anyway, I'm not optimistic about getting promoted this season.

Thought it was a typo. I don’t think it’s pessimistic to think we’ll struggle to win promotion this season. I think we’ll have some entertainment though and hopefully that reinvigorates the fans.

[RVclaret]

Thought it was a typo. I don’t think it’s pessimistic to think we’ll struggle to win promotion this season. I think we’ll have some entertainment though and hopefully that reinvigorates the fans.

Neither is it optimistic to think we’ll win promotion then.

[Rileybobs]

Neither is it optimistic to think we’ll win promotion then.

I think it is, based on the circumstances.

[RVclaret]

I think it is, based on the circumstances.

Fair enough, that’s your opinion.

I will judge us by the end of the window better but right now I believe we are a few good signings away from having a squad that can challenge for the top 2.

[Rileybobs]

Fair enough, that’s your opinion.

I will judge us by the end of the window better but right now I believe we are a few good signings away from having a squad that can challenge for the top 2.

So even you think it’s optimistic that we will win promotion - because in your words we will need a few good signings to challenge for the top 2. Presumably this requirement will increase for every good player we sell.

I’ll judge us by the end of the window too. No harm in looking at where we stand now though, 10 days before our opening fixture. I think with our current transfer activity it’s reasonable to predict the level of player we will be selling vs the level of player we will be signing.

I’m just trying to be realistic, I may be entirely wrong and hope I am. I was wrong to think that we’d get more than £20m from Collins this summer so don’t mind being proven to be incorrect.

[RVclaret]

So even you think it’s optimistic that we will win promotion - because in your words we will need a few good signings to challenge for the top 2. Presumably this requirement will increase for every good player we sell.

I’ll judge us by the end of the window too. No harm in looking at where we stand now though, 10 days before our opening fixture. I think with our current transfer activity it’s reasonable to predict the level of player we will be selling vs the level of player we will be signing.

I’m just trying to be realistic, I may be entirely wrong and hope I am. I was wrong to think that we’d get more than £20m from Collins this summer so don’t mind being proven to be incorrect.

Your view is that the level of player we are signing is not really that great, my view is that the level of player we are signing is just fine. I was also glad to see us target one of the leagues best attackers in O’Hare recently, whether that comes off yet or not I don’t know, but that’s the kind of quality we need to keep going for.

Again you are using the realistic line - no need to use it, what you are doing is offering your view and opinion, much like I am, but I don’t keep banging the ‘being realistic’ line.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Your view is that the level of player we are signing is not really that great, my view is that the level of player we are signing is just fine. I was also glad to see us target one of the leagues best attackers in O’Hare recently, whether that comes off yet or not I don’t know, but that’s the kind of quality we need to keep going for.

Again you are using the realistic line - no need to use it, what you are doing is offering your view and opinion, much like I am, but I don’t keep banging the ‘being realistic’ line.

But he is being realistic? Everything he has said there is perfectly realistic of our situation

[RVclaret]

But he is being realistic? Everything he has said there is perfectly realistic of our situation

I could argue I’m being realistic by suggesting we almost have a squad capable of challenging for the top 2.

[Milltown1882]

I could argue I’m being realistic by suggesting we almost have a squad capable of challenging for the top 2.

Luton got the playoffs with Lansbury, Snodgrass and Jerome in their team. That league is bad it’s just about finding ways to win. We’re a goalscorer and a keeper away from being in very good shape.

[JarrowClaret]

We’re going down again aren’t we?







Nah 46 undefeated or should it be 69?

[clarethomer]

You get fans of both extremes at times.

Fans thinking VK will have us playing like Man City ( a team that has £895m spent on building it) where we will simply out class and walk the league.

We have Fans who think we are destined to be the next club to go under because of the finances and until that is sorted we have no chance of success.

Personally speaking, I am excited and of a positive opinion in terms of looking to see what happens. Time will be required though in reality as our players learn about the league and come up against better players than they may have before. There will be the usual challenge of consistency that even experienced teams have in this league. You can be beating the top of the league on Tuesday night and getting hammered by the bottom of the league on the following Saturday.

I think the foundations of a good team are there personally speaking and with more to come in. Whether it will be good enough - who knows?

[Elizabeth]

Look guys just balance out the calibre of players we have lost and will continue to lose with what’s coming through the door.
Its not a good time for me and I’m not going to kid myself it is

[RVclaret]

Luton got the playoffs with Lansbury, Snodgrass and Jerome in their team. That league is bad it’s just about finding ways to win. We’re a goalscorer and a keeper away from being in very good shape.

Precisely. They just had a sound system and team ethic. If Kompany can get that going, and the signs from what I’ve seen in interviews and videos etc seem promising, then there is a lot of talent in our squad to do very well (as long as we add the two positions you said and don’t lose many more).

[Newcastleclaret93]

I could argue I’m being realistic by suggesting we almost have a squad capable of challenging for the top 2.

That is correct. But Tbf your original post said that neither is it optimistic to suggest we could get promotion. That has now changed to we almost have a squad capable of challenging (that’s the realistic part).

[boatshed bill]

Both Optimism and Pessimism lack rationale.

[Rileybobs]

Your view is that the level of player we are signing is not really that great, my view is that the level of player we are signing is just fine. I was also glad to see us target one of the leagues best attackers in O’Hare recently, whether that comes off yet or not I don’t know, but that’s the kind of quality we need to keep going for.

Again you are using the realistic line - no need to use it, what you are doing is offering your view and opinion, much like I am, but I don’t keep banging the ‘being realistic’ line.

- We have a new inexperienced manager.
- The playing squad has been totally overhauled
- We’ve lost a number of our best players
- We are quite likely to lose more of our best players (it’s a guess, but again a realistic view)
- We have signed young and inexperienced players from lower levels
- We currently don’t have a goalkeeper of sufficient quality to win promotion
- We currently don’t have a striker of sufficient quality to win promotion
- We are likely to make a few more signings before the end of the window, but it’s reasonable to think that these signings will be in a similar mould to the ones we’ve already made.
- Only 3 teams out of 24 can get promoted

Based on all of the above, I think it’s entirely realistic to suggest that winning promotion next season is unlikely. And I would say that it is optimistic to expect us to win promotion.

A few of those factors may well change before the end of the transfer window. The situation could become more favourable, it could even become less favourable. Who knows.

[nyclaret]

- We have a new inexperienced manager.
- The playing squad has been totally overhauled
- We’ve lost a number of our best players
- We are quite likely to lose more of our best players (it’s a guess, but again a realistic view)
- We have signed young and inexperienced players from lower levels
- We currently don’t have a goalkeeper of sufficient quality to win promotion
- We currently don’t have a striker of sufficient quality to win promotion
- We are likely to make a few more signings before the end of the window, but it’s reasonable to think that these signings will be in a similar mould to the ones we’ve already made.
- Only 3 teams out of 24 can get promoted

Based on all of the above, I think it’s entirely realistic to suggest that winning promotion next season is unlikely. And I would say that it is optimistic to expect us to win promotion.

A few of those factors may well change before the end of the transfer window. The situation could become more favourable, it could even become less favourable. Who knows.

You do realise the transfer window hasn’t ended yet?