How did we manage to be relegated?

9thMay1987 · Post by **9thMay1987** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:05 am

With our 2 best goalkeepers. 3 best central defenders, 2 best forwards. All gone because they are genuine PL class players wanted by PL clubs.

Plus Cornet certainly and Roberts potentially added to that list

How were we always in the bottom 3 and ended up in the Championship?

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:07 am

We scored 34 goals in 38 games.

Shaggy · Post by **Shaggy** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:08 am

9thMay1987 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:05 am
With our 2 best goalkeepers. 3 best central defenders, 2 best forwards. All gone because they are genuine PL class players wanted by PL clubs.

Plus Cornet certainly and Roberts potentially added to that list

How were we always in the bottom 3 and ended up in the Championship?

Because we deserved to be. Our squad was old and stale. Our ex-manager didn’t have a plan b.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:08 am

We kept letting leads slip away that in other seasons we’d been resolutely hanging on to.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:10 am

Its a good point. In my opinion, a combination of poor management by Dyche, an unwillingness to buy a new central midfielder and failings in previous transfer windows to refresh the squad. But also don’t forget we were one game away from staying up, and the points total we did achieve was quite high compared to the recent average required.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:11 am

3 go down,law of averages said we would eventually. Authorities helping a rival out as well, Brentford on the beach.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:12 am

Because despite all those players mentioned in the OP, we simply didn't have the strikers to bag enough goals. We hadn't upgraded in that department and when we were drawing 0-0 against both Norwich and Watford on The Turf it was crystal clear.

Clarky · Post by **Clarky** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:13 am

Too many draws!!

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:15 am

We didn't sack Dyche last summer.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:18 am

Our strikers couldn't hit a barn door even if they were nailed to it...

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:19 am

The biggest frustration I have is not that we went down, but that we were actually a pretty good team last year. Competitive in every game, we just lacked creativity and cutting edge.

Following years of under investment in key positions, particularly midfield, that’s to be expected. Yet I still think if we’d played Cork more we’d still be there.

Anyway, it’s over now and I think we’re doing a pretty good job of the rebuild; a new style and many new, young, more technical players than we’ve come to expect. A bit of pace up front and we could be in for a good season.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:19 am

Our players aren't as good as a lot of our fans think or make out.

Pope, Tarks and Collins are the only 3 players who could get into what Id call the tier 2 teams like Leicester and West Ham and McNeil and Cornet could probably get in most bottom half teams.

Players like Mee, Roberts, Taylor and Brownhill could make it as squad players but then that left us with Westwood, Cork, Barnes, Jay-Rod and Vydra who are just not Premier League standard and the lack of quality in the middle of the park and upfront really showed last season and ultimately cost us.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:20 am

Because we just were not up to PL standard in so many areas in the last 18 months -coaching, tactics,player selection, player quality throughout the team, sufficient sized squad, and the failure to bring in younger quality players, an inadequate scouting and recruitment team, and a distinct lack of planning. I personally think that with more planning we would still be there.Having had "the business model" all promoted teams aspired to, we threw all the planning away.

Belgianclaret · Post by **Belgianclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:22 am

Lack of influx new players, team gone stale, predictable tactics sussed out by opponents

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:24 am

I said before the season started we would more than likely get relegated with our midfield options and the tactics we used under Dyche. I wasnt surprised when we went down.

Big Vinny K · Post by **Big Vinny K** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:25 am

We only just got relegated on the final day remember.

But to be honest it just felt like one of those seasons to me where we were destined to finally get relegated (like 95% of all teams who have ever played in that league eventually do)

Personally I just thought we seemed to have quite a lot of bad luck combined with loss of form from key players at key times….and on top of that some big key moments in games that went wrong for us (either due to our own mistakes or VAR etc)

Too many to mention - but a few massive ones below (a couple of these go the other way and we stay up)

Cornet missed pen at West Ham
Cornet open net at Norwich
Collins hand ball Newcastle
Cornet being injured for Norwich home game at a period he was playing really well.
Horrendous referee decision denying clear penalty against Norwich at home
Covid abuse of rules for our home games v Watford and Everton when both teams had injuries and poor form (especially Watford who only got game called off due to a ridiculous ruling around non vaccination of their players)
Rearranged Watford home game in February in virtually unplayable conditions
Rarely having 2 fit strikers at the same time.

Not trying to make excuses as we also just did not make enough chances on goal and key players like Dwight and Wood really struggled with form.
But personally I don’t think we were were the 3rd worst team in the division and not surprised that so many of our players have gone to other premier league clubs - they were / are very good players who have proven themselves in the league over a few years or in terms of Collins look like outstanding talents

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:25 am

A toxic combination of daft goals conceded and easy chances missed.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:28 am

Our manager wasn’t backed in the previous transfer windows, team got too old. The final throw of the dice was when he needed proper reinvestment in the squad and all we got was a Chris Wood replacement.

Venkys4eva · Post by **Venkys4eva** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:29 am

Not investing in the squad two years ago

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:30 am

If you saw us at Leeds and Norwich you could easily ask how we even took it to the last day.

Deservedly relegated over 38 games.

cj_lotte · Post by **cj_lotte** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:37 am

Bad Tactics, trying to nick a goal and defend the lead hoping it was enough
Conceeding stupid goals when we did have the lead
Strikers being unable to find the Net,
Lack of creativity accross the squad
Lack of investment meaning, players not having to playing for their shirt
Player Selection
Some big VAR decisions.

was saw under Jackson, that if given a little more freedom (breaking from the rigid 4-4-2) we could play and had we have had a few more games, we may have survived. It would have only taken 1 more win.

But I honestly think that re needed Relegation, its given us the oppertunity to freshen the squad and rebuild, something that is deffinately more comfortable to do in the Championship, than in the Prem.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:37 am

No excuse for any team that gets relegated we had plenty of chances and blew it.

Captain hindsight would say Dyche should never have been given a new contract. I personally think he should have been sacked around Xmas 2018 when Moyes was sniffing around the Turf for his job.
Dyche showed far to much loyalty to his back room staff and should have shuffled the pack like Ferguson did at United

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:38 am

Lack of investment stretching back 2/3 seasons and other clubs investing and therefore improving. Thats what did us. I dont know what Dyche coukd have done. I do know that we should have attacked flat out against Newcastle from the off. That we didn't was a tactical error.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:40 am

Stayingup wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:38 am
Lack of investment stretching back 2/3 seasons and other clubs investing and therefore improving. Thats what did us. I dont know what Dyche coukd have done. I do know that we should have attacked flat out against Newcastle from the off. That we didn't was a tactical error.

You should maybe change your user name.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:43 am

A woeful forward line bereft of form, in addition to a huge lack of creativity.

We'd had our shot across the bow in 20/21, where thankfully Chris Wood's form burst into life in March and just about kept us up. We failed to address it and paid the price accordingly.

Bigvince · Post by **Bigvince** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:51 am

We got fewer points than 17 other teams!

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:00 am

Centre midfield was the reason we got relegated.

It needed changing yonks ago but the powers that be seemingly didn’t see the need to.

Zlatan · Post by **Zlatan** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:01 am

At the time the covid rescheduled games felt like other teams were taking advantage of poorly thought out rules, which felt like cheating to me. That said, the table never lies does it, and we didn’t have enough points.

The causes are many including for me lack of forward planning and getting the right signings in 2-3 seasons back when the focus of the board changed from remaining in the league to getting shot of their cash cow before it died.

ArthurShelby · Post by **ArthurShelby** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:03 am

What is the 9th May 1987 about seems a very odd username to have your username as your birthday

The Enclosure · Post by **The Enclosure** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:05 am

Simply not good enough.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:08 am

ArthurShelby wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:03 am
What is the 9th May 1987 about...

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:19 am

Dyche himself admitted we’d started to lose that edge.

Unfortunately a lack of investment over a number of years helped bring that one.
I’m convinced we’d have continued to stay up under Dyche had he been able to evolve the squad.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:22 am

We started poorly and couldn't recover

Saying that, we should really have stayed up when we had that incredible run, but the players and the coaching staff got a bit carried away and we blew it

But the table doesn't lie and we deserved to go down

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:23 am

Variance. The luck ran out.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:40 am

You need more than 4 or 5 players of genuine PL quality to survive unfortunately.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:47 am

Poor start where we throw daft points away late in games.
Lack of goals.
Not enough creativity or poise in CM (this did improve slightly when Cork came back)
Ageing squad which wasn't overhauled quickly enough, evolution not revolution should have been the mantra, not handing out extensions to over the hill players.
Cornet missed some key games, and when he returned from the AFCON he took a while to regain his early season form.
We held onto Dyche for too long, and when we made the change it was sadly too late.
Daft defensive mistakes which we'd never had made in previous seasons, Collins handball, Pope dropping a simple cross, both ironically against Newcastle.
Failing to adequately replace Wood in the Jan window.
And the most crucial one failing to win the ley games against our fellow relegation rivals, this is what killed us in the end.

The reality is we're in the worst of both worlds, not quite good enough to stay up as a collective, but having several players who other PL clubs feel can still offer them something at that level, hence why Collins, Mee, Pope and Tarks have already garnered PL moves, likely to also be followed by Cornet and McNeil, and in the extreme worse case scenario, Brownhill, Roberts and Taylor.

We weren't a terrible team last season, but we weren't quite good enough to finish above the trap door, only 7 wins, but 14 draws, and only 17 defeats, many by the odd goal, shows how close to actually surviving we were in the final analysis.

lakedistrictclaret · Post by **lakedistrictclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:54 am

I think we went into that last Newcastle game with the wrong mindset, knowing that we only had to match Leeds's result.
If we knew that we HAD to beat Newcastle to stay up, it might have been different.

Wembley09 · Post by **Wembley09** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:11 am

Not getting enough points against the teams down with us.

Leeds took 12 points from Watford and Norwich (4 wins)
We took an underwhelming 5 points from them, and 3 of those came thanks to the late turn around at Watford under Mike Jackson.

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:38 am

A simple start-of-season-analysis of the number of goals our squad were likely to produce ..based on all of their individual histories....would tell anyone tat we did not have enough goals in the team to stay up. I mean we had a virtually non-scoring bunch of midfielders and an ageing strike force. Frustrating because it was so obvious from the very start of the season.
As it turned out Cornet added his 9 but Wood/Weghorst, McNeil and Jay all under-performed critically.
So yes....just not enough goals in the team.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:56 am

You can't keep picking the same players year after year and expect to stay in the Premier League. We did well to last 6 seasons to be honest, a testament to the strength of our defence and keepers.

That said don't concede the late goal at home to Leeds and all other things equal we stay up.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:01 pm

lakedistrictclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:54 am
I think we went into that last Newcastle game with the wrong mindset, knowing that we only had to match Leeds's result.
If we knew that we HAD to beat Newcastle to stay up, it might have been different.

Tactics and team on the final day were the one thing Jackson got wrong during his tenure of games, but sadly it was crucial.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:24 pm

A wretched combination it’s pointless going over it & it’s far too late in the day for the inquest, every season 3 teams go down & we happened to be 1 of them, I wouldn’t say 1 single thing or factor was to blame, it had to happen 1 season we did well riding it out season after season & preserving the status for as long as we did.

giveusaB · Post by **giveusaB** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:26 pm

The scrappy Bamford equaliser for Leeds.We would have had an extra 2 points with them -1.Just that scenario would have had us level on points at the end of the season with a better goal difference.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:41 pm

Because we were one of the three lowest scoring teams in the PL for the past 2 seasons.

First time around 2 of those 3 clubs were relegated and second time around all 3 of the lowest scoring teams were relegated.

Not that difficult to understand really.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:44 pm

Our infamous "framework "

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:57 pm

I haven't read all the thread, but in answer to the OP, we weren't good enough.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:59 pm

Simply put most other teams have progressed in the last few seasons (players and tactics) whereas we regressed, and we were easy to figure out. Look at the way Norwich stopped us at home by anticipating our only form of attack (hoof towards the penalty box) by putting tall defenders around the box. We'd never been a team to create tons of chances but we used to be clinical with them - last season we weren't.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:00 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:40 am
You should maybe change your user name.

Ah well it could apply to this season!!!

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:01 pm

Stayingup wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:00 pm
Ah well it could apply to this season!!!

I bloody hope so, imagine the meltdown on here

Swizzlestick · Post by **Swizzlestick** » Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:07 pm

Chronic lack of investment allied with a regression in Dyche's tactics (imo due to a downgrade of the quality of his coaching staff) that teams worked out - basically. Also two big signings that were either not suited to Dyche (WW) or he didn't really know what to do with (Cornet). It's beggars belief we took it to the final day tbh.