I appreciate that no-one is meant to stand, but it's typical that the voicings of a minority, some who no doubt only ever attend TM once, can affect a pretty substantial block of the home support.

Is that how 'Levelling up' works?

I blame human evolution and prawn sandwiches.

If only we were still chimps with a sole taste for pies, then we'd have no dickheads in boxes looking through a window and drinking shite champagne.

The problem here is that the club are IGNORING other areas of the ground. If they actually said WHY and HONESTLY, then there could be progress. When over a thousand fans are stood, not 20m away, and none of them getting letters, it makes our club look REALLY, REALLY BAD!

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:36 pm

I appreciate that no-one is meant to stand, but it's typical that the voicings of a minority, some who no doubt only ever attend TM once, can affect a pretty substantial block of the home support.

Is that how 'Levelling up' works?

That minority spend a lot of money to watch a game of football. I’m not saying that the communication is perfect, but the request for supporters to sit down is perfectly reasonable. And if those requests are ignored the only realistic sanction is a ban.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:09 pm

That minority spend a lot of money to watch a game of football. I’m not saying that the communication is perfect, but the request for supporters to sit down is perfectly reasonable. And if those requests are ignored the only realistic sanction is a ban.

The request to sit down would have been perfectly reasonable had they all not been advised that was the area of the ground where they could stand. Unofficially.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:13 pm

The request to sit down would have been perfectly reasonable had they all not been advised that was the area of the ground where they could stand. Unofficially.

Advising fans unofficially that they can stand in an all seated stadium is a problem right. Who in their right mind thought that would happen!

If that genuinely occurred someone needs dealing with. The facts are that it’s an all seater stadium and fans are being asked to stay seated. The additional fact that in the CFS fans are not being asked to sit is where the issue lies for me.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:13 pm

The request to sit down would have been perfectly reasonable had they all not been advised that was the area of the ground where they could stand. Unofficially.

I’m not being flippant here, but how and when were fans in that stand advised that they could stand?

Refer in this very thread to the post by Claret Tony, Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:22 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:20 pm

I’m not being flippant here, but how and when were fans in that stand advised that they could stand?

Long before we were back in the Cricketfield, it was our "end", and nearly since the stands (there's that word again) were built.

We hardly ever sell out, and there's normally plenty of room in the Jimmy Mc, so get the crying prawn sandwich-ers moved. The bunch of twa-ts.

Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:38 pm

Long before we were back in the Cricketfield, it was our "end", and nearly since the stands (there's that word again) were built.

We hardly ever sell out, and there's normally plenty of room in the Jimmy Mc, so get the crying prawn sandwich-ers moved. The bunch of twa-ts.

I like to see a well- balanced poster.
One with a chip on either shoulder.

Middle-agedClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:42 pm

I like to see a well- balanced poster.
One with a chip on either shoulder.

I don't bother with chips much these days as the taties nowadays are crap. But when I do they have to have plenty of vinegar on them.

And salty beggar-ness obviously.

Has anyone ever paid fair money for a cineman ticket and been annoyed when there's been a set of bellends that have sat and talked all the way through it?

You'd probably want a refund wouldn't you? You'd want the management of the cinema to act upon it wouldn't you?

Yes. Yes you would. No, you absolutely wouldn't be fine with it.

All the best.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:32 pm

Refer in this very thread to the post by Claret Tony, Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:22 pm

Doesn’t really answer my question of how and when fans were told they could stand in the JML.

Absolute dipsticks on here.

If they stand in that area, respect it. If you think you're better, tell someone who gives a shite.

Up the Clarets

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:55 pm

Doesn’t really answer my question of how and when fans were told they could stand in the JML.

I don't frequent that area, neither I believe does Tony - but perhaps you could ask him to expand on his post.

Just to add, it is consistent with what I've heard from people who have ST's in that block.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:37 pm

I don't frequent that area, neither I believe does Tony - but perhaps you could ask him to expand on his post.

Just to add, it is consistent with what I've heard from people who have ST's in that block.

I find it hard to believe that the club would tell fans that they can stand in the JML and then renege on that. Interested to hear whether fans who have tickets in that stand have been as advised as such.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:49 pm

I find it hard to believe that the club would tell fans that they can stand in the JML and then renege on that. Interested to hear whether fans who have tickets in that stand have been as advised as such.

Different regime.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:49 pm

I find it hard to believe that the club would tell fans that they can stand in the JML and then renege on that. Interested to hear whether fans who have tickets in that stand have been as advised as such.

That was then, this is now. We all know that standing in the Cricket Field Stand, just like in every other stand, is illegal, and we all know that the club has made it as clear as possible (without saying so because that would land them in dead trouble) is a "standing permitted", or at least "standing turned-a-blind-eye-to" stand. And the Longside, now, is a stand where it will be enforced.

Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:51 pm

I blame human evolution and prawn sandwiches.

If only we were still chimps with a sole taste for pies, then we'd have no [deleted] in boxes looking through a window and drinking [deleted] champagne.

Quite right. My mother is using her share bonus to sit in the corporate section because she is 90 years old this year and can't sit outside in the cold for that long. Perhaps you could come and block her view for the 90 minutes just to prove how inconsiderate a chimp can be?

dsr wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:42 am

Quite right. My mother is using her share bonus to sit in the corporate section because she is 90 years old this year and can't sit outside in the cold for that long. Perhaps you could come and block her view for the 90 minutes just to prove how inconsiderate a chimp can be?

If I’m reading this correctly, your mother will be sat inside? Therefore people stood up in the stand won’t be blocking her view, unless they’re all 7 foot plus or stood in the hospitality’s designated outside seating area…

Everyone who goes on the turf, knows that area of the longside and the likelihood of having to stand to watch the game. Providing no one’s getting hurt, I don’t have an issue with it.

claptrappers_union wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:53 pm

You can’t argue with that really

Looks heavy handed and looks like it was written by a 13 year old.

What did the club expect the lad to do? Sit when everyone else is standing so they see none of the game? That’s before you get to the point they aren’t being consistent as no one in the CFS are getting similar letters.

I suppose the club should persue a safe standing area or the ground and communicate that to the supporters

Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:38 pm

We hardly ever sell out, and there's normally plenty of room in the Jimmy Mc, so get the crying prawn sandwich-ers moved. The bunch of twa-ts.

It's posts like this that makes me think the summer break is way too long for some kids. I mean, I hope it is a kid and not some middle-aged bloke trying to big himself up, but failing miserably while looking sad and pathetic.

CryerBFC wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:11 am

If I’m reading this correctly, your mother will be sat inside? Therefore people stood up in the stand won’t be blocking her view, unless they’re all 7 foot plus or stood in the hospitality’s designated outside seating area…

Everyone who goes on the turf, knows that area of the longside and the likelihood of having to stand to watch the game. Providing no one’s getting hurt, I don’t have an issue with it.

On warm days she will sit outside because the view is better and who wouldn't like to sit in the sun on a nice day? The question is whether one person has the right to do exactly what they want even if it spoils the day for another person. I don't have the right to claim that I am important and can do what I want, and if someone else suffers by it, it's tough luck, they aren't as important as me. And I don't think anyone else has the right to do that to me and mine, either.

As far as I know, Turf Moor has no officially designated standing area.
If you buy a ticket for a game, you are allocated a specific seat.
That is what you are contracting for with the Club. It seems quite simple to me. If you don’t want to honour your part of the contract - don’t go.

Sorry, but I have had to remove the letter. We have not been given permission to publish such by either the sender or the recipient and therefore cannot do so.

Middle-agedClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:56 am

As far as I know, Turf Moor has no officially designated standing area.
If you buy a ticket for a game, you are allocated a specific seat.
That is what you are contracting for with the Club. It seems quite simple to me. If you don’t want to honour your part of the contract - don’t go.

There isn't a designated standing area but in this particular area an agreement was made a few years ago between club and the fans in there to allow it. Has that agreement now been withdrawn? Were the people in that area informed as such? And, have all those in the cricket field end been dealt with in the same way?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:01 pm

Sorry, but I have had to remove the letter. We have not been given permission to publish such by either the sender or the recipient and therefore cannot do so.

I get not having the senders permission
The recipient posted it on twitter, surely that puts it in the public domain?

Nori1958 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:12 pm

I get not having the senders permission
The recipient posted it on twitter, surely that puts it in the public domain?

I think the recipient was very keen to share the letter…

Nori1958 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:12 pm

I get not having the senders permission
The recipient posted it on twitter, surely that puts it in the public domain?

He placed it on Twitter - whether he had the right to do that I don't know because usually there is a warning of such on a letter from the club. A third party placed it on this message board with is very definitely not permitted.

Are there any seats left in the CFS? Thinking of asking to swap seats to where they don't enforce the same rules.

Middle-agedClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:56 am

As far as I know, Turf Moor has no officially designated standing area.
If you buy a ticket for a game, you are allocated a specific seat.
That is what you are contracting for with the Club. It seems quite simple to me. If you don’t want to honour your part of the contract - don’t go.

This.

You buy a ticket, in an all-seater stadium, which has a designated seat number on it.

If we implement a safe-standing area in the future, and you want to stand, go in there.

I have zero sympathy.

I sit in one of the wings in the Hargreaves Upper, on the end of a row. The amount of times people stand in front of me, in the aisle, to watch a chance rather than carry on to their seat, or because they’re disappearing for a pint after 20 minutes, I wish they’d get banned as well.

You’re buying a seat. Sit in the damn thing or expect the consequences from the establishment you’re going into

Simps wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:47 pm

This.

You buy a ticket, in an all-seater stadium, which has a designated seat number on it.

If we implement a safe-standing area in the future, and you want to stand, go in there.

I have zero sympathy.

I sit in one of the wings in the Hargreaves Upper, on the end of a row. The amount of times people stand in front of me, in the aisle, to watch a chance rather than carry on to their seat, or because they’re disappearing for a pint after 20 minutes, I wish they’d get banned as well.

You’re buying a seat. Sit in the damn thing or expect the consequences from the establishment you’re going into

He’s on row J, what do you expect him to do? Watch the back of someone’s head for 90 minutes?

Maybe you could be the new head of safety and security, at least your letters might be written properly.

deanothedino wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:52 pm

He’s on row J, what do you expect him to do? Watch the back of someone’s head for 90 minutes?

Maybe you could be the new head of safety and security, at least your letters might be written properly.

I'll definitely agree with you on how badly that letter has been written. It's pretty embarrassing.

On the actual subject matter - I don't know what's been said previously, what, if any, warnings they've had in there, whether they've ever been informed that the relaxing on standing in that area has been removed and whether the same restrictions in an all seater stadium have been applied throughout.

I don't know the person who has posted the letter on Twitter, I don't have a clue who he is and whether he comes on here or not, but there are always two sides to a story so difficult for me to comment shortly.

A couple of things though, the letter refers to the SAG who I know had a meeting last week. I'll ask the question whether this was brought up and, if so, what was decided. I've also contacted the FSA to ask for some advice.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:05 pm

Absolute dipsticks on here.

If they stand in that area, respect it. If you think you're better, tell someone who gives a shite.

Up the Clarets

I see we’ve got the intellectuals out on this one.

I’ve read the thread on Twitter and on here and see it’s all about “those in corporate not being able to see” or “don’t buy tickets in that block if you want any to sit” however if all those in block 3 are stood up then those in the middle to back rows of block 4 can’t see any action at the CFS end of the pitch so they stand, creating a domino effect.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:12 pm

There isn't a designated standing area but in this particular area an agreement was made a few years ago between club and the fans in there to allow it. Has that agreement now been withdrawn? Were the people in that area informed as such? And, have all those in the cricket field end been dealt with in the same way?

Hi Tony
All reasonable questions.
I don’t know the answers. What I do know is that “arrangements “, “agreements “ and “understandings” tend to have little or no effect when faced with contract or other types of law. I think you mentioned earlier that this “agreement “ had been reached with or through a previous (key word, that) ground safety officer. I suspect that when he left, so did the appetite for this informal deviation from the official contract.
Don’t forget, - if an “agreement “ had the same status as a contractual commitment, Harry Kane might now be a Man City player.
UTC.

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:25 pm

I’ve read the thread on Twitter and on here and see it’s all about “those in corporate not being able to see” or “don’t buy tickets in that block if you want any to sit” however if all those in block 3 are stood up then those in the middle to back rows of block 4 can’t see any action at the CFS end of the pitch so they stand, creating a domino effect.

There is no domino effect. Not all in block 2 and 3 stand. The standing section is from approx row H to the top. This allows all of section 4 a full view of the pitch. When I purchased a st and moved to that that part of the JHL (as it was) I was advised by the club that fans in that area tended to stand throughout games This was through the club website when I selected a st in those blocks.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:49 pm

I'll definitely agree with you on how badly that letter has been written. It's pretty embarrassing.

On the actual subject matter - I don't know what's been said previously, what, if any, warnings they've had in there, whether they've ever been informed that the relaxing on standing in that area has been removed and whether the same restrictions in an all seater stadium have been applied throughout.

I don't know the person who has posted the letter on Twitter, I don't have a clue who he is and whether he comes on here or not, but there are always two sides to a story so difficult for me to comment shortly.

A couple of things though, the letter refers to the SAG who I know had a meeting last week. I'll ask the question whether this was brought up and, if so, what was decided. I've also contacted the FSA to ask for some advice.

The guy said on Twitter that he hadn’t been spoken to during the game by any stewards, so the letter doesn’t even appear to be factual if the lad is telling the truth.

They’ve regularly sent the warning letters out to people in this area of the ground but it appears this may be the first time they’ve actually banned someone for it. It seems very heavy handed and unless they’re going to get the front rows to sit I’m not sure what they expect someone in J to do.

Just noticed that you can no longer buy match tickets in that section for tomorrow’s game.

Isn't this just a case of the club has been told off from a safety committee and has to be seen to be trying to address it?

I doubt they'll be any actual consequences. It just seems like a control they can add to their risk assessment and pull it up when they're next inspected.

FeedTheArf wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:53 pm

Isn't this just a case of the club has been told off from a safety committee and has to be seen to be trying to address it?

I doubt they'll be any actual consequences. It just seems like a control they can add to their risk assessment and pull it up when they're next inspected.

well perhaps, apart from the fan with the letter being banned for 2 games

deanothedino wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:06 pm

The guy said on Twitter that he hadn’t been spoken to during the game by any stewards, so the letter doesn’t even appear to be factual if the lad is telling the truth.

They’ve regularly sent the warning letters out to people in this area of the ground but it appears this may be the first time they’ve actually banned someone for it. It seems very heavy handed and unless they’re going to get the front rows to sit I’m not sure what they expect someone in J to do.

If that’s the case, I’d be challenging this legally. I’d be asking for them to produce video evidence of him being spoken to. I sit in that block. I sit when I want to sit, stand when we have chances etc same as any supporter. If any steward tells me to sit, I will politely tell them that when those in the CFS are asked the same, I will do so. I won’t be told when I can and can’t stand at a football game in a section that had a standing agreement in place, previous regime or not.

He said no steward actually spoke to him about it,but he doesn't want to challenge the decision on twitter. Seems a bit harsh when he wasn't even asked by a steward to sit down.

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:56 pm

well perhaps, apart from the fan with the letter being banned for 2 games

Must have missed that bit!

Seems unnecessarily heavy handed

I know it’s been discussed but there’s a lot to unpack here. Don't even know where to start with that.

Was discussed over the weekend https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... 4#p1876895

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:53 pm

I know it’s been discussed but there’s a lot to unpack here. Don't even know where to start with that.

The people in them seats have no option but to stand when it is covered up like that.

RickyBobby wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:10 pm

The people in them seats have no option but to stand when it is covered up like that.

The people in those seats wouldn’t have been there as they have a 2 game “suspension” as their ST have been blocked

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:17 pm

The people in those seats wouldn’t have been there as they have a 2 game “suspension” as their ST have been blocked

I may be wrong but I believe RickyBobby was joking.