Today's footie 21/8

[Hipper]

I enjoyed that game although I only watched it to see how Pope and Trips were doing but also saw a bit of Wood - he was surprisingly energetic!

Two takes from this:

1. I'm glad we got relegated. This years Prem looks to have stepped up again. It may be that I've seen a lot of The Championship and just a few Prem games but we'd stand no chance against these two teams.

2. Player of the Match was Saint Maximum for me. He was unplayable when he had the ball. Without him Newcastle would be pretty limited.

[quoonbeatz]

Not quite, a shirt pull is common.

Yep, and you get booked for it every time.

[taio]

Under the rules this isn't serious foul play or violent conduct

Pulling a shirt is not even close to what we saw today or yesterday

We see deliberate fouls and physical contact without an attempt to play the ball all the time to stop dangerous attacks - it's commonplace and yellow cards follow.

[quoonbeatz]

Todays wasn’t a red though? As the ref and VAR ref agreed in addition to every person commentating on the game. Only a few armchair softies think it should be.

It was a red. He then changed his mind, incorrectly. Most people I've seen talking about it agree it was a red.

[Roosterbooster]

I think the trips are fine, the reds are the studs down the back of the ankle or high lunging with the studs up. This one was a kick (with the top of the foot) on the knee, minimal force.

If it was a genuine attempt to get the ball then I'd agree

It wasn't. It was an off the ball lunge

[Silkyskills1]

It was a wild lunge by Trippier who was way out of position. He 'took De Bruyne out' with no intention of trying to win the ball. Both Trippoer's feet were off the ground and the ball was in a different half of the pitch to where Trippoer was. The game is unhealthy as it is but for that not to be given a red is disgraceful. I don't hang around for pundits views but of course they would say 'only a yellow'. Their team wasn't involved and this was a showcase game between two teams with high profiles. They don't want it spoiled as it comes to the boil. Corruption on view for all to see this afternoon.

[taio]

It was a red. He then changed his mind, incorrectly. Most people I've seen talking about it agree it was a red.

Most of the people I've heard say it was correct to overturn. One thing's for sure is that it has divided option so certainly not clear cut.

[taio]

It was a wild lunge by Trippier who was way out of position. He 'took De Bruyne out' with no intention of trying to win the ball. Both Trippoer's feet were off the ground and the ball was in a different half of the pitch to where Trippoer was. The game is unhealthy as it is but for that not to be given a red is disgraceful. I don't hang around for pundits views but of course they would say 'only a yellow'. Their team wasn't involved and this was a showcase game between two teams with high profiles. They don't want it spoiled as it comes to the boil. Corruption on view for all to see this afternoon.

Richards (former City player) and Given (former City and Newcastle player) both agreed without hesitation it was correct to change the decision to a booking.

[Silkyskills1]

Richards (former City player) and Given (former City and Newcastle player) both agreed without hesitation it was correct to change the decision to a booking.

I take your point but they are not supporters as you or I . They are former employees but a heated exchange or disagreement wouldn't be part of the agenda for the programme.

[Hipper]

More to the point they are not referees.

[Roosterbooster]

Micah Richards is a proper supporter. And a very entertaining pundit. Just not a very good one...

What the pundits think is largely irrelevant anyway because most don't seem to actually know the rules, or have the intelligence to evaluate the situation and come to a sensible conclusion

[taio]

I take your point but they are not supporters as you or I . They are former employees but a heated exchange or disagreement wouldn't be part of the agenda for the programme.

Pundits disagree all the time on Sky Sports including Richards in particular. They didn't on this occasion because they didn't see any controversy with the decision to overturn. I don't understand your inference that their opion isn't really valid. I think the view of former top professionals is very relevant, especially when a former player and current ambassador of one of the teams playing is able to put club loyalties and bias to one side and support a view that doesn't favour his club.

[taio]

More to the point they are not referees.

No, but the referees involved determined it was correct to give a yellow card.

[Silkyskills1]

Pundits disagree all the time on Sky Sports including Richards in particular. They didn't on this occasion because they didn't see any controversy with the decision to overturn. I don't understand your inference that their opion isn't really valid. I think the view of former top professionals is very relevant, especially when a former player and current ambassador of one of the teams playing is able to put club loyalties and bias to one side and support a view that doesn't favour his club.

Fair enough. All about opinions. Never inferred anything regarding the legitimacy of pundits' views because rarely, if ever, do I take in that part of the programme. And I don't subscribe to the notion that anyone who has 'played the game' knows more about it than the punter who pays his/her money week in week out to watch a game.

[Silkyskills1]

No, but the referees involved determined it was correct to give a yellow card.

He sent him off initially.

[The Enclosure]

when i saw the slow mo replay that confirmed to me it was a straight red.
Ref bottled it.

[PremierLeagueClass]

Micah Richards is a proper supporter. And a very entertaining pundit. Just not a very good one...

What the pundits think is largely irrelevant anyway because most don't seem to actually know the rules, or have the intelligence to evaluate the situation and come to a sensible conclusion

There’s very little to debate on this one, it’s a yellow. Always has been and (unless the game goes completely to pot) always will be.

On another note, these guys wouldn’t have reached the levels they did in their careers without having elite footballing intelligence. I’m sure it’s not the case but you come across as someone that has never played the game.

[Silkyskills1]

What is elite footballing intelligence? I hazard a guess at an oxymoron.

[jos]

A. I’m right, you’re wrong.

B. NO, I’m right, you’re really wrong.

A. You must be BLIND, I’m really right.

B. BUT they said ….. so I’m obviously right.

Etc…….

We don’t care,the decision has been made, we aren’t even in this league.

[Roosterbooster]

There’s very little to debate on this one, it’s a yellow. Always has been and (unless the game goes completely to pot) always will be.

On another note, these guys wouldn’t have reached the levels they did in their careers without having elite footballing intelligence. I’m sure it’s not the case but you come across as someone that has never played the game.

How you come to that conclusion, I have no idea!

Not only have I played the game, I've played for decades, at a pretty decent level, and also with an England international. I've also been coached by Premier League managers. And I can say with absolute certainty that most professional footballers do not have football intelligence. They follow structure, and take lead from certain commanders on the pitch. Many of the intelligent ones go on to become managers. Some of the stupid ones do too, but alot of these become pundits.

To suggest there is very little debate is ignoring most of this thread. I don't like the way alot of the modern game is becoming, but to think you can just hack a player down when the ball isn't there to be won is ludicrous. Its not a shirt pull, or a simple trip, or obstruction. It's a blatant disregard for the game.

If you have no chance of winning the ball (and Trippier didn't even try), then it's an off the ball incident. The position of the ball becomes irrelevant in this circumstance. Seeing someone doing what Trippier did today 40 yards off the ball and this debate wouldn't even exist. But this is worse. He not only took a player out on purpose, but he stopped (given how City were attacking at the time) a potential goal scoring opportunity.

If this is a yellow, you're gonna see this every game. You don't even have to be close enough to get a hand on the shirt, you can just slide and hack. And if that's the case, then the game really has gone to pot.

I know this argument won't convince you. But I'm happy giving it a try...

[PremierLeagueClass]

What is elite footballing intelligence? I hazard a guess at an oxymoron.

You ask a daft question then follow it up by suggesting all footballers are thick

know when to stop digging.

[taio]

He sent him off initially.

He did but that's pretty irrelevant once he decided - based on better information - that a red card was an incorrect decision. The additional information aspect being a key point as recognised by Keith Hackett:

"Gillett watched several reruns which, vitally, offered him a different viewing angle to that which he had determined his original decision .

He was satisfied that the challenge, though reckless, did not endanger the safety of the opponent and the official returned to the field of play to rescind his red RAG and show to a relieved Trippier a yellow. A correct call."

[Silkyskills1]

You ask a daft question then follow it up by suggesting all footballers are thick

know when to stop digging.

This from the person who is adamant that Trippiers lunge was as deserving a punishment as someone wasting time. The game has 'gone to pot' if you sincerely believe that.
Where did I say all footballers are thick? I've looked but can't find it.

[taio]

How you come to that conclusion, I have no idea!

Not only have I played the game, I've played for decades, at a pretty decent level, and also with an England international. I've also been coached by Premier League managers. And I can say with absolute certainty that most professional footballers do not have football intelligence. They follow structure, and take lead from certain commanders on the pitch. Many of the intelligent ones go on to become managers. Some of the stupid ones do too, but alot of these become pundits.

To suggest there is very little debate is ignoring most of this thread. I don't like the way alot of the modern game is becoming, but to think you can just hack a player down when the ball isn't there to be won is ludicrous. Its not a shirt pull, or a simple trip, or obstruction. It's a blatant disregard for the game.

If you have no chance of winning the ball (and Trippier didn't even try), then it's an off the ball incident. The position of the ball becomes irrelevant in this circumstance. Seeing someone doing what Trippier did today 40 yards off the ball and this debate wouldn't even exist. But this is worse. He not only took a player out on purpose, but he stopped (given how City were attacking at the time) a potential goal scoring opportunity.

If this is a yellow, you're gonna see this every game. You don't even have to be close enough to get a hand on the shirt, you can just slide and hack. And if that's the case, then the game really has gone to pot.

I know this argument won't convince you. But I'm happy giving it a try...

While you may view it as a potential goal scoring opportunity, it's not relevant for the decision because it would not be considered that under the Laws of the Game - it was on the half way line with a few Newcastle players deeper than De Bruyne.

[PremierLeagueClass]

To suggest there is very little debate is ignoring most of this thread. I don't like the way alot of the modern game is becoming, but to think you can just hack a player down when the ball isn't there to be won is ludicrous. Its not a shirt pull, or a simple trip, or obstruction. It's a blatant disregard for the game.

If you have no chance of winning the ball (and Trippier didn't even try), then it's an off the ball incident. The position of the ball becomes irrelevant in this circumstance. Seeing someone doing what Trippier did today 40 yards off the ball and this debate wouldn't even exist. But this is worse. He not only took a player out on purpose, but he stopped (given how City were attacking at the time) a potential goal scoring opportunity.

If this is a yellow, you're gonna see this every game. You don't even have to be close enough to get a hand on the shirt, you can just slide and hack. And if that's the case, then the game really has gone to pot.

I know this argument won't convince you. But I'm happy giving it a try...

Happy to accept a difference of opinion but i’m completely perplexed by a couple of things you’ve said there.

“but to think you can just hack a player down when the ball isn't there to be won is ludicrous.”

You get a yellow card for it, happens in most games up and down the country every week.

“If this is a yellow, you're gonna see this every game. You don't even have to be close enough to get a hand on the shirt, you can just slide and hack”.

It is a yellow, you see it most games.

One of our midfielders tried it yesterday, Cork was it? Didn’t quite make enough contact to bring him down but the intent was there and it would have a been a yellow (still probably was regardless, thought he was lucky to get away with it).

[PremierLeagueClass]

This from the person who is adamant that Trippiers lunge was as deserving a punishment as someone wasting time. The game has 'gone to pot' if you sincerely believe that.
Where did I say all footballers are thick? I've looked but can't find it.

Your previous post…

“What is elite footballing intelligence? I hazard a guess at an oxymoron”.

Oxymoron - a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction.

I’m not sure what else you were trying to infer with that statement?

[Silkyskills1]

While you may view it as a potential goal scoring opportunity, it's not relevant for the decision because it would not be considered that under the Laws of the Game - it was on the half way line with a few Newcastle players deeper than De Bruyne.

You are correct that it was on the half way line. The ball, however, was in the other half of the pitch opposite to the one that Trippoer was out of position in.

[Silkyskills1]

Keep reading about 'shirt pulls' and 'trips' being seen as equivalent( punishable wise) to the late, high lunge from one of our former favourites. Shirt pulling, trips, speaking out of turn, tbrowing/ kicking the ball away are the indiscretions that see a player being banned around the new year. Irritating, especially if you are on the wrong end of one but Trippier today was enough d irritating. Very lucky that a weak-willed referee gave in to those sat in a cabin drinking tea and eating cake ....... and of course getting paid for the privilege.

[taio]

You are correct that it was on the half way line. The ball, however, was in the other half of the pitch opposite to the one that Trippoer was out of position in.

Still not a goal scoring opportunity according to the laws of the game which is what I was posting about. I'm not even sure what you've said is correct because it all happened on the half way line. It would be split second stuff to determine such very fine margins.

[Roosterbooster]

While you may view it as a potential goal scoring opportunity, it's not relevant for the decision because it would not be considered that under the Laws of the Game - it was on the half way line with a few Newcastle players deeper than De Bruyne.

I agree it's not relevant for the decision. I was just highlighting the situation here

[Vegas Claret]

I enjoyed that game although I only watched it to see how Pope and Trips were doing but also saw a bit of Wood - he was surprisingly energetic!

Two takes from this:

1. I'm glad we got relegated. This years Prem looks to have stepped up again. It may be that I've seen a lot of The Championship and just a few Prem games but we'd stand no chance against these two teams.

2. Player of the Match was Saint Maximum for me. He was unplayable when he had the ball. Without him Newcastle would be pretty limited.

when you consider City spent 100 million on Grealish and Saint Maximin cost about 20.............

[Silkyskills1]

Your previous post…

“What is elite footballing intelligence? I hazard a guess at an oxymoron”.

Oxymoron - a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction.

I’m not sure what else you were trying to infer with that statement?

Yep, I understand what an oxymoron is. I'm not understanding your intention though.

[Roosterbooster]

Happy to accept a difference of opinion but i’m completely perplexed by a couple of things you’ve said there.

“but to think you can just hack a player down when the ball isn't there to be won is ludicrous.”

You get a yellow card for it, happens in most games up and down the country every week.

“If this is a yellow, you're gonna see this every game. You don't even have to be close enough to get a hand on the shirt, you can just slide and hack”.

It is a yellow, you see it most games.

One of our midfielders tried it yesterday, Cork was it? Didn’t quite make enough contact to bring him down but the intent was there and it would have a been a yellow (still probably was regardless, thought he was lucky to get away with it).

Fair questions

1&2) I don't think players get yellows for similar offences to these most weeks - no attempt to get the ball, and reckless "tackles". Most of the yellows are cynical with a shirt pull, nudge, little tap on the legs, not a fully fledged kick or lunge. There's definitely a difference

3) I don't recall the Cork incident. But if he made a reckless attempt to take out a player with absolutely no attempt at getting the ball, then that is a red card. It's about intent, not outcome.

I absolutely understand the other side of the argument to mine. But I wonder if that exists because we are used to seeing players get away with things like this. It's very easy for the ref to give a yellow

[Silkyskills1]

Still not a goal scoring opportunity according to the laws of the game which is what I was posting about. I'm not even sure what you've said is correct because it all happened on the half way line. It would be split second stuff to determine such very fine margins.

You've got the wrong poster. My quibble isn't about preventing a goalscoring opportunity, it's about a nasty challenge with the ball well away from the injured player. But if that is deemed acceptable now I'm surely wasting my time on a game that keeps plumbing new depths.

[Roosterbooster]

In other footballing news from today, didn't take Lewandowski long. Barça's front 6 looks very strong

Always been a fan of them, but I feel very uneasy about their recent financial behaviour

[taio]

You've got the wrong poster. My quibble isn't about preventing a goalscoring opportunity, it's about a nasty challenge with the ball well away from the injured player. But if that is deemed acceptable now I'm surely wasting my time on a game that keeps plumbing new depths.

You replied to and quoted my post which was specifically about goalscoring opportunity.

[PremierLeagueClass]

Yep, I understand what an oxymoron is. I'm not understanding your intention though.

I think it’s time to call it quits on this one!

[Silkyskills1]

You replied to and quoted my post which was specifically about goalscoring opportunity.

Wires crossed here. Not as though it's important in the grand scheme of things but I've just had a look back at various posts on this topic and it was Roosterbooster who may have inferred a goalscoring opportunity initially and then I did quote from you but as I said my argument wasn't about preventing a possible goal. Still isn't. Thanks for the exchange of views though without it descending into verbal chaos and name calling. Same goes to Premier League Class. Stay safe and have a good week.

[PremierLeagueClass]

Wires crossed here. Not as though it's important in the grand scheme of things but I've just had a look back at various posts on this topic and it was Roosterbooster who may have inferred a goalscoring opportunity initially and then I did quote from you but as I said my argument wasn't about preventing a possible goal. Still isn't. Thanks for the exchange of views though without it descending into verbal chaos and name calling. Same goes to Premier League Class. Stay safe and have a good week.

Fair play. This is how all debates should end!

[Hipper]

Interesting debate as I felt strongly about the decision. I thought red was correct.

My reasoning is:

1. He made no attempt to play the ball, just take the man out. That in itself would be a yellow if he had just tripped him with little risk of injury.

2. He failed to just trip him but caught de Bruyne on the knee with his studs. I consider this 'serious foul play' which is a red card offence.

Law 12

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... misconduct

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ0wCrXydls

It may not have really hurt de Bruyne but it could have done.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if de Bruyne had reacted like Maatsen.