Worried About the Price Cap?

[Foreverly Claret]

EVERYBODY should be worried about it whether you can afford it or not !!! For two reasons.

Firstly , there are going to be millions who can't afford it if there is no help. Aren't you worried about them ?

Secondly , even if you can afford it you can't spend the money twice so paying the increase to your energy provider deprives somebody else of that cash and consider the effect that will have on the economy...no income equals no tax...reduced income equals reduced tax...no tax / reduced tax leads to what ? For the economy to function people have to spend on a range of goods / products...not just energy.

The knock on effect on prices could be devastating .Inflation soaring ; interest rates inevitably rising .

I'm not a pessimist by nature but I'd feel a lot better if I thought somebody had the grey matter to put a decent , coherent plan together.

[BigGaz]

The second point is seemingly not on everyone's lips as much as the price cap, but it should be front and center.

There are so many interwoven aspects and it will effect everyone, As Foreverly says.

People will have less money to spend due to gas and electric. The average mortgage variable rate is around 4.5%. It could easily double, meaning even less in the kitty for those with variable rates.

As a consequence;

A lot of independent businesses are going to suffer and close.

A lot of decent sized and chain stores that rely on customer footfall will close.

A lot of pubs, clubs, and microbreweries will close.

You're likely going to see the government have to step in to save at least one big bank or Building Society that have low liquidity, as people will not be able to pay their mortgages, and less people will purchase houses.

You are going to see, or know at least person that will experience "organisational restructures" in their workplace.

At the time of the last crash, i believe unemployment was around 7.5%. We're at 4.5% now and rising. Will it get that high again? Unsure.

Covid hasn't helped, but in terms of the hit our economy has taken, Brexit is an absolute disaster. If you're happy that you're free from the yoke of a european state or that we can enforce more stringent policies to immigrants as part of the trade off then i really am happy for you and i hope these big wins keep your home warm and your belly full.

[ClaretLoup]

Just as an aside on solar power I am thinking about having it fitted when I have my roof done up. My neighbour up the street has just had panels fitted so I asked him about the feed in tariff and is his system generating a sizeable income for him.

To be able to tap in to the feed in tariff I believe you need the second generation Smart meter SMETS 2. He hasn’t got one and can’t get one as there is a shortage and a massive waiting list for them. So if you are thinking about this make sure to check this issue out with any potential installer. The world economy has gone haywire with all kinds of shortages and this is one example.

One knock on effect of increased energy prices was highlighted in the paper recently and it’s the impact it will have on companies that consume large amounts such as brickworks roof tile manufacturers and glass makers. Some of them are saying they may well have to shut down as their operation will be uneconomic. Material prices could go sky high or they will simply not be available.

Also there could be a big increase in unemployment both in those industries and the building trade especially.

[dsr]

Covid hasn't helped, but in terms of the hit our economy has taken, Brexit is an absolute disaster. If you're happy that you're free from the yoke of a european state or that we can enforce more stringent policies to immigrants as part of the trade off then i really am happy for you and i hope these big wins keep your home warm and your belly full.

I would have thought that the war in Ukraine and the cutting off of Russian gas might have had something to do with the fuel price increases. Presumably not the impact Brexit has had, but surely worth a mention?

[Devils_Advocate]

I would have thought that the war in Ukraine and the cutting off of Russian gas might have had something to do with the fuel price increases. Presumably not the impact Brexit has had, but surely worth a mention?

The bit you quoted was him talking about the hit to the economy not the increase in fuel prices. Covid, Brexit and the Ukraine war have all negatively contributed to the cost of living crisis we are facing as a country.

[MalaysiaMo]

It's great that everyone is now coming round to the realisation that if you effectively take money out of the economy (whether it be to pay for the spiralling cost of energy, or because of politically-driven "austerity measures" or whatever) the economy quickly slows down, with all the consequences that has for livelihoods, welfare, investment in schools and hospitals etc - and indeed a Government's ability to properly fund those responsibilities that are still considered public goods, such as health, education, policing, defence etc. Hopefully everyone will remember this next time there's a General Election ....

[claret2018]

It's great that everyone is now coming round to the realisation that if you effectively take money out of the economy (whether it be to pay for the spiralling cost of energy, or because of politically-driven "austerity measures" or whatever) the economy quickly slows down, with all the consequences that has for livelihoods, welfare, investment in schools and hospitals etc - and indeed a Government's ability to properly fund those responsibilities that are still considered public goods, such as health, education, policing, defence etc. Hopefully everyone will remember this next time there's a General Election ....

Next time there’s a general election people will vote how the Mail and the Sun tell them to

[Bangers&Mash]

Next time there’s a general election people will vote how the Mail and the Sun tell them to

You can add the BBC to that.

The problem is that the majority of folks political knowledge (myself included) isn't very deep. This along with nowhere at all presenting news in a factual way with zero bias leads to the media having a ridiculous influence over elections

[fatboy47]

You can add the BBC to that.

The problem is that the majority of folks political knowledge (myself included) isn't very deep. This along with nowhere at all presenting news in a factual way with zero bias leads to the media having a ridiculous influence over elections

All TV companies...not just the BBC.

Media, as you say, holds the key. For well over a century they've persuaded the weak-minded non-thinkers to keep their wealthy upper-class masters in charge. To see the Johnsons and Sunaks as their saviours...and anyone who wants to shift the balance towards ordinary folk as dangerous maniacs. T'was ever thus.

[Zlatan]

Saw this on Twitter. The message about governments needing to incentivise a carbon tax is valid

https://youtu.be/xKCuDxpccYM

The problem is, the people will be taxed and not the carbon producers which is how governments usually go

[RighteousClaret]

Dictated by the Greens lol!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Screenshot_20220826-071136.png (239.69 KiB) Viewed 1492 times

[Lancasterclaret]

There should be government ministers on the air waves right now, reassuring everyone that they will do everything they can this winter

The fact that there isn't is really, really, really, really, really worrying

[JohnMcGreal]

We don't have a government.

[AlargeClaret]

Channeling my inner Jacobclaret

Perhaps people could just work an extra few hours each week ? cut back the odd takeaway , pointless subscriptions?
Surely anyone could save 20% on their energy usage almost overnight?

Surely paying a higher monthly DD leading up to the “ 2 huge quarters “ not to mention the govt handout would considerably lesson the burden .

The left will have a field day with their “ millions will die of cold “ /old people ,children dead in the streets nonsense . And it’s a given there will be some more govt handout type assistance

[taio]

There should be sufficient time for the government to act on appointment of a new prime minister to support people with their energy bills. Surely it will be the number one priority of the new prime minister with a new support package announced almost immediately. I just hope they put in place the right mechanisms which includes extra targeted support for the most vulnerable. It's not the right time for general cuts to income tax or national insurance.

[CoolClaret]

Channeling my inner Jacobclaret

Perhaps people could just work an extra few hours each week ? cut back the odd takeaway , pointless subscriptions?
Surely anyone could save 20% on their energy usage almost overnight?

Surely paying a higher monthly DD leading up to the “ 2 huge quarters “ not to mention the govt handout would considerably lesson the burden .

The left will have a field day with their “ millions will die of cold “ /old people ,children dead in the streets nonsense . And it’s a given there will be some more govt handout type assistance

Are we trying to drive into the future and improve quality of life for people or not?

It is hard to get a leg up in the world and stuff like this can set people back big time.

I mean look at house prices relative to wages since the 80s - looking at 5x the price

Modern day Britain is crap, we get ripped off and underfunded whilst still having naff all purchase power

[JohnMcGreal]

Surely it will be the number one priority of the new prime minister with a new support package announced almost immediately.

You'd hope so, wouldn't you. I do wonder whether the support packages will be announced before or after they've passed the Northern Ireland Bill into law and thus provoking a trade war with Europe, in the middle of an already devastating economic crisis.

This lot are completely deranged. If Truss is to survive longer than 18 months she'll have to bend to the will of the extremist members her party. Don't expect anything rational.

[RicardoMontalban]

There should be government ministers on the air waves right now, reassuring everyone that they will do everything they can this winter

The fact that there isn't is really, really, really, really, really worrying

It speaks volumes of our current predicament and today’s front page of the express should be taken as the warning it is. I really fear for this winter.

[davideyresleftear]

Channeling my inner Jacobclaret

Perhaps people could just work an extra few hours each week ? cut back the odd takeaway , pointless subscriptions?
Surely anyone could save 20% on their energy usage almost overnight?

Surely paying a higher monthly DD leading up to the “ 2 huge quarters “ not to mention the govt handout would considerably lesson the burden .

The left will have a field day with their “ millions will die of cold “ /old people ,children dead in the streets nonsense . And it’s a given there will be some more govt handout type assistance

I would love to work more hours and cut out the little comforts in exchange for an equivalent or slightly worse quality of life than before. Sign me up

[Hipper]

There should be government ministers on the air waves right now, reassuring everyone that they will do everything they can this winter

The fact that there isn't is really, really, really, really, really worrying

Who would believe them?

[bfcjg]

Problem we have had is for the last 40 years at least we have had governments ran by and for lawyers,barristers and journalists, no industrialists who understand what the country actually needs to build a solid energy resiliant economy, we are copping for it now.

[Venkys4eva]

Growing up on a 80s council estate we didn't have central heating or double glazing. Instead I used to write my name on the INSIDE of the window in the frost when I woke up. I survived and was never that cold - hot water bottles, heat one room and lots of blankets, thats how we lived.

[Lancasterclaret]

Growing up on a 80s council estate we didn't have central heating or double glazing. Instead I used to write my name on the INSIDE of the window in the frost when I woke up. I survived and was never that cold - hot water bottles, heat one room and lots of blankets, thats how we lived.

Fantastic mate, I did exactly the same as a student in my house in the 90s

Was it nice?

No

Should it be happening in the 5th richest economy in the world?

No

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status ... 0593101824

Price cap calculator from Martin Lewis

(Gulp)

[claret2018]

Growing up on a 80s council estate we didn't have central heating or double glazing. Instead I used to write my name on the INSIDE of the window in the frost when I woke up. I survived and was never that cold - hot water bottles, heat one room and lots of blankets, thats how we lived.

Life in 21st century Britain - like living in an 80s council estate.

[Boss Hogg]

Think this is a potential time bomb that has been swept under the carpet by many. Variable rate mortgage increases, fuel bills doubling, people making cutbacks on spending, businesses are going to go under…. Batten down the hatches. Some good tips on here on how to reduce usage but there are a lot of households stretched to the limit who fund everything by borrowing and living beyond their means. Some will not come out if this well.

[Jakubclaret]

Jacub does have some good points, if not always put accross well

Worrying about it will probably make more people ill, or worse, than the actual event

It will go full circle, and prices will drop, I think the reported worse scenario is 12 months

I would be asstounded if any energy company cut off supplies to anyone who was genuinely struggling

Thanks I'll try to present better, you cannot control people worrying & it gives people something to do, offers some sort of macabre fulfilment to their incomplete life's, things will level off it'll have to when it starts costing the higher powers more in terms of bailing people out with grants & the NHS with treating people affected by the weather. It'll get to the stage where it'll make no sense & the prices will regulate themselves.

[Venkys4eva]

Fantastic mate, I did exactly the same as a student in my house in the 90s

Was it nice?

No

Should it be happening in the 5th richest economy in the world?

No

It wasn't hell, I didn't know any better - mate

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/robertcuffe/status/ ... 2858376192

The wholesale costs are what is driving this

For example, one of the solutions is "cutting green taxes" and its clear that will make next to no difference

Proper solutions needed, rather than pandering to a very small minority opinion

[Lancasterclaret]

It wasn't hell, I didn't know any better - mate

Would you be happy having that again now mate?

That is going to be the reality for millions, and its not about old people telling us all how hard they were when they were younger mate, its about the reality for far too many people now mate

Do you understand that mate?

[Granny WeatherWax]

The predicted cap prices for January and April 2023 are even more concerning.

People are going to be throwing themselves off bridges unless the government act, small businesses are just not going to be able to survive.

[claretonthecoast1882]

It will get to a point where there is widespread disorder if nobody does anything.

This is the issue when there isn't 1 half decent option as a political party to lead, they are all the same and in it for whatever they can take.

[Lancasterclaret]

It will get to a point where there is widespread disorder if nobody does anything.

This is the issue when there isn't 1 half decent option as a political party to lead, they are all the same and in it for whatever they can take.

I think that is a far too cynical

There are lots of good politicians, in ALL parties, its just that because of the situations over the past few years, a lot of really bad ones have risen to the top

[Swizzlestick]

It wasn't hell, I didn't know any better - mate

But you know better now. And you’re advocating that it’s ok for people to live like that, through no direct fault of their own. It’s crazy.

[Venkys4eva]

Would you be happy having that again now mate?

That is going to be the reality for millions, and its not about old people telling us all how hard they were when they were younger mate, its about the reality for far too many people now mate

Do you understand that mate?

They will have to adapt mate! Thankfully it doesn't effect me that much but on the other hand during the winter we only use our central heating for 2 hours in the evening and one hour in the morning.

Damp will be the big problem, especially for people in poor housing/council properties but opening windows during the day helps.

I feel for the old and disabled as they have no choice but to be at home all day. Any help should be specifically targeted at these groups while the rest of us manage.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I think that is a far too cynical

There are lots of good politicians, in ALL parties, its just that because of the situations over the past few years, a lot of really bad ones have risen to the top

Cynical possibly but also fair at the same time.

There could be the odd decent 1 here and there but they will be about as relevant to the running of this country as me or you. We have a system where we have 2 parties that can win an election and both are different cheeks of the same arse and a few parties that make up the numbers. It is a sad state but it is how it has been allowed to be for decades and decades.

[Swizzlestick]

Nah, the ‘they’re all the same’ line is just a tacit justification of Tory party policy. Criticise Labour/Starmer all you like but at least they’ve actually bothered their arse to come up with a plan to freeze bills this winter via a windfall tax.

[Jakubclaret]

Growing up on a 80s council estate we didn't have central heating or double glazing. Instead I used to write my name on the INSIDE of the window in the frost when I woke up. I survived and was never that cold - hot water bottles, heat one room and lots of blankets, thats how we lived.

I agree 100% people always got by & managed, a 4 season sleeping bag I'll use designed for sub zero temperatures if things get that bad. If people managed then without problems what's so different now.

[Lancasterclaret]

They will have to adapt mate! Thankfully it doesn't effect me that much but on the other hand during the winter we only use our central heating for 2 hours in the evening and one hour in the morning.

Damp will be the big problem, especially for people in poor housing/council properties but opening windows during the day helps.

I feel for the old and disabled as they have no choice but to be at home all day. Any help should be specifically targeted at these groups while the rest of us manage.

But it is going to affect half the country

Stick your details in that price cap calculator I've posted above

We are alright, but that is going to put a huge strain on us, and we are going to have to cut out stuff, and that will be the same for millions, and that is before you factor in the millions who just can't afford it

I apologise for being a bit off with your earlier post, but it did give the impression that just because you went through it decades ago (like I did, and when you could deal with it a lot better) then everyone should go through it now

[evensteadiereddie]

Growing up on a 80s council estate we didn't have central heating or double glazing. Instead I used to write my name on the INSIDE of the window in the frost when I woke up. I survived and was never that cold - hot water bottles, heat one room and lots of blankets, thats how we lived.

Luxury!
Living in Nelson, we used to dream of having a window....

[DCWat]

Would you be happy having that again now mate?

That is going to be the reality for millions, and its not about old people telling us all how hard they were when they were younger mate, its about the reality for far too many people now mate

Do you understand that mate?

Good point, mate

[ClaretAndJew]

My prediction is that the winner of the Tory leadership contest will magically fix this issue, allowing for a mass more to vote for the Tories in the next election.

It's very clever.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Nah, the ‘they’re all the same’ line is just a tacit justification of Tory party policy. Criticise Labour/Starmer all you like but at least they’ve actually bothered their arse to come up with a plan to freeze bills this winter via a windfall tax.

People wanted Boris out.
Now he's out/a lame duck and the government can't really put in place a long term plan, people are upset about that.

Until his successor is appointed, I wouldn't expect to see any meaningful action to happen with this issue

[Granny WeatherWax]

I agree 100% people always got by & managed, a 4 season sleeping bag I'll use designed for sub zero temperatures if things get that bad. If people managed then without problems what's so different now.

Bit if a difference though eh, this is going to impact of far wider range of people than just the less well off people of the 80s.

[Lowbankclaret]

Just as an aside on solar power I am thinking about having it fitted when I have my roof done up. My neighbour up the street has just had panels fitted so I asked him about the feed in tariff and is his system generating a sizeable income for him.

To be able to tap in to the feed in tariff I believe you need the second generation Smart meter SMETS 2. He hasn’t got one and can’t get one as there is a shortage and a massive waiting list for them. So if you are thinking about this make sure to check this issue out with any potential installer. The world economy has gone haywire with all kinds of shortages and this is one example.

One knock on effect of increased energy prices was highlighted in the paper recently and it’s the impact it will have on companies that consume large amounts such as brickworks roof tile manufacturers and glass makers. Some of them are saying they may well have to shut down as their operation will be uneconomic. Material prices could go sky high or they will simply not be available.

Also there could be a big increase in unemployment both in those industries and the building trade especially.

I had it fitted 25days ago, there is a thread on its first weeks performance. I have a series 1 smart meter and Octopus tested it remotely before install and said it would be fine.
On export tariffs Octopus do and agile tariff which yesterday tea time was paying over 70 per KWh exported. Shame after 25 days my export has not been set up, but I was told it takes about a month to get everything in place.
Websites to look at outgoing octopus.
And Energy-stars uk and look at the outgoing north west England.
Todays agile rates vary from 45p to 73p per kWh exported.

My advice fit as panels as you can afford to.

[Swizzlestick]

People wanted Boris out.
Now he's out/a lame duck and the government can't really put in place a long term plan, people are upset about that.

Until his successor is appointed, I wouldn't expect to see any meaningful action to happen with this issue

It’s just not a really good enough is it? Why on earth do they need so many hustings? Cause of some stupid rulings from 1922 or something. The country is on the precipice of a national emergency. We all know it’s going to be Thatcher 2.0 anyway.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It’s just not a really good enough is it? Why on earth do they need so many hustings? Cause of some stupid rulings from 1922 or something. The country is on the precipice of a national emergency. We all know it’s going to be Thatcher 2.0 anyway.

That's just how the process works, I don't agree with it either, but like I said, people wanted the PM gone and now he's gone the gov can't issue any long term plans until his successor is chosen.

[Lancasterclaret]

That's just how the process works, I don't agree with it either, but like I said, people wanted the PM gone and now he's gone the gov can't issue any long term plans until his successor is chosen.

Yes they can

Johnson has been on holiday or in the Ukraine more than he's been here

He's still the PM

[JohnMcGreal]

Yes they can

Johnson has been on holiday or in the Ukraine more than he's been here

He's still the PM

Was he ever the PM, really? Or just an empty suit?

Either way, the current political situation is unsustainable and there will probably have to be a general election sooner rather than later.