Just lacking something

[claretonthecoast1882]

Worth saying that if every team we play away from home adopts the Preston tactic of essentially sitting on the edge of their box, then we are not going to lose many away from home

I was quite surprised by their approach to the game, knowing how big this game is to Preston fans I didn't expect them to play a back 8 or 9

[Lancasterclaret]

I was quite surprised by their approach to the game, knowing how big this game is to Preston fans I didn't expect them to play a back 8 or 9

Gone down like a bucket of sick with the PNE fans

I thought they would at least have a go, and if it wasn't for our defensive mistake I suspect we'd have heard the dissatisfaction from them as the game went on

[claretonthecoast1882]

Gone down like a bucket of sick with the PNE fans

I thought they would at least have a go, and if it wasn't for our defensive mistake I suspect we'd have heard the dissatisfaction from them as the game went on

I can imagine so, it is nigh on impossible to win games playing that way

[RVclaret]

I was quite surprised by their approach to the game, knowing how big this game is to Preston fans I didn't expect them to play a back 8 or 9

The most defensive home side in a Lancs derby I’ve ever seen. It’s not like they couldn’t have a go at us either as we’ve shown to be fragile at times.

[summitclaret]

Worth saying that if every team we play away from home adopts the Preston tactic of essentially sitting on the edge of their box, then we are not going to lose many away from home

Or at home, but can we turn draws into wins? After almost a fifth of the season, patterns are emerging and every team seems to be setting up to defend against us now. I still think Twine will be the key, but it needs to happen soon. With hindsight its obvious that Maatson should have come on earlier. Indeed he should he started.

[Ric_C]

The thing with Twine is that he's a specialist at scoring from outside the box, which will be a potent weapon against low block teams. Thought Brownhill had a really poor game last night.

[Hipper]

Two things stood out from our attacking last night.

1. By our movement and passing around the penalty area we were able to create space for good opportunities to score but either there wasn't a player in the right place or the pass to that player never came. I was quite impressed with that part of our play against a very organised defence.

2. Brownhill is poor at free kicks. This has been pointed out before. I'm not sure he's got the ability so we need someone who has. Clearly Twine has as we saw at Huddersfield but we need someone else.

3. A real negative was that our crosses were generally poor and only once did we put in one of those low hard crosses that just need a knock in, like the goal Jay score against Hull. With shooting there were a couple of good efforts (on or very near the target) but there was also some poor tries (step forward Mr Cullen).

So I can't count.

We were unlucky though not to win 1-0 as the goal was unfortunate - Muric slipping and only just over the line. I never felt comfortable when they got a corner but overall their forwards were poor and I can see how they have only scored three goals (so I can count!).

[Cirrus_Minor]

If we are going to tap it backwards and forwards, sideways and sideways again, teams are just going to dig in and frustrate us. We need players to run at them and have players with good movement in the box to take their defenders out of position. I am sure this is the plan.

I am also concerned that we seem vulnerable to sustained attacks since not all teams will allow us to hog the ball as long as Preston did. An example of this was at West Brom.

Until we solve these we will not make progress.

[Marney&Mee]

Great to watch the passing. Plenty of possession. Just wish we'd start whipping in some crosses rather than back, back, across, across, back...

[RVclaret]

Great to watch the passing. Plenty of possession. Just wish we'd start whipping in some crosses rather than back, back, across, across, back...

As VK said post game, PNE have defended crosses well all season so pumping crosses into the box becomes rather pointless, it was no surprise that when Roberts / Benson tried crossing several times to one player (Jay Rod), that he had 5 players around him and they were easily able to clear the ball.

As Mattster said on another thread, we got into some better crossing positions near the byline / penalty area with Maatsen / Zaroury but the formers crossing was too floaty, when it needed to be flatter.

[Marney&Mee]

As VK said post game, PNE have defended crosses well all season so pumping crosses into the box becomes rather pointless, it was no surprise that when Roberts / Benson tried crossing several times to one player (Jay Rod), that he had 5 players around him and they were easily able to clear the ball.

As Mattster said on another thread, we got into some better crossing positions near the byline / penalty area with Maatsen / Zaroury but the formers crossing was too floaty, when it needed to be flatter.

exactly. Hard and low crosses pulled back from the bye line. Also for Benson et al to whip some crosses in from out wide. Not every time, but whip some into the danger area. There may be 5 defenders on one attacker..but it creates uncertainty and danger

[burnleymik]

Against teams that set up like that we need more bodies in the box. Lots of times last night Jay dropped deep to pick up the ball, we moved it to the wingers and we quite literally had no one in the box. What can the wingers do with that? They simply have to just recycle the ball.

Other times we only had Jay alone in the box Vs 4- defenders, he never had a chance to get on the end of things.

People around us getting frustrated and shouting to get it in the box, but to who?

The difference was how Tella played, he was a lot less effective out wide than when he was making runs in behind, which in turn made more space for Jay in the other games we have played.

Had it not been for the injury to Taylor I think we may have seen our new attacker introduced.

Glad I wasn't a Preston fan last night, they were lucky to get their goal and under pressure the vast vast majority of the game, at home , Vs a local rival.

[Hipper]

If we are going to tap it backwards and forwards, sideways and sideways again, teams are just going to dig in and frustrate us. We need players to run at them and have players with good movement in the box to take their defenders out of position. I am sure this is the plan.

I am also concerned that we seem vulnerable to sustained attacks since not all teams will allow us to hog the ball as long as Preston did. An example of this was at West Brom.

Until we solve these we will not make progress.

I didn't feel we were especially vulnerable against WBA despite their possession. We defended pretty well and it was only that unfortunate late goal that cost us the two points.

What we seem unable to do in these games is get that second goal.

[bfcjg]

I think the theory we have the ball they cannot hurt us is excellent and we do it so well, when we get better peneratiion in the box the possession will pay dividends, shame we didn't get the Swansea player as he would have fit the bill.

[Colburn_Claret]

Jay doesn't work in this system, he's running his socks off but creating nothing. It's not all his fault, he's playing a lone figure when we need 2 people there. The same way Salah needed Mane, Jay needs someone alongside him. Tella could do the job, but I'd prefer to see Tella and Bastien the 2 up top.
Benson is another Terry Cochrane, loads of skill, but no idea what to do with it. He looks exciting, but he's not worth his place at the moment. He needs to learn how to use the ball first.
Cullen is great when the balls in front of him, but ties himself in knots if he gets pressed, and tries to do a 180 with the ball.
Taylor still isn't convincing, and his long passing, especially the cross field balls are awful. Beyer looked more than useful in his cameo, and I'd like to see him start.
Zaroury looked useful on the left, and if Tella goes central he'd be ideal to replace him.
Brownhill has been excellent, but again needs to know his role. I see him as the cog in the middle of the wheel. Playing in the area between Cork and Cullen, and the strikers Tella and Bastien/Twine. Last night he was drifting, and PNE had too much space there when we lost the ball.
Right wing is more of a problem, a shame Churlinov has got injured, but in his absence its JBG or Vitinho.

My team for Bristol would be

,.................Muric...............
.......THB......Beyer.........
Roberts...................Taylor
......Cork...........Cullen.....
..............Brownhill.........
Vitinho.................Zaroury
..............Tella...........


Depending which wing we are attacking from Vitinho or Zaroury, need to come more central to support Tella, with Roberts and Taylor covering their spot out wide.


It would still leave a hell of a bench, when all are fit.

[RVclaret]

Jay doesn't work in this system

Jay has 4 goals and 1 assist in 6 starts.

[dougcollins]

Some of the goals we've conceded have been worryingly poor.

[Colburn_Claret]

Jay has 4 goals and 1 assist in 6 starts.

I'm not ignorant of the fact, but the point is, with all our possession we should be scoring a lot more. A different striker could have had more. It's not about not taking his opportunities, rather that he doesn't help create a lot more of them.

[tiger76]

One thing we're lacking is patience amongst our fan base, was last night great, no but it was a local derby, and PNE sat deep, so that's going to prove difficult for any team to break down, as has been shown by their results this season, plus the low amount of goals they've shipped.

Frustrating is again the word that springs to mind, however but for the unfortunate slip by Muric, and the ball only just crossing the line we'd have likely taken all 3 points, similarly at West Brom we were moments away from a great away win.

Worth looking at the bigger picture 8 points from 5 away trips isn't too shabby, and despite a few annoying draws we are also still unbeaten at TM, though that might well be severely tested when Bristol City visit on Saturday, though I'd hope they'll at least attempt to make a proper game of it.

[scouseclaret]

The thing I don’t understand is that we have signed a load of wingers but there seems to be a real reluctance to get the ball out wide. Benson in particularly hugs the touchline, but I don’t think the other players trust him – possibly due to his lack of end product – and the play always turns infield instead. Later on, we had a bit of joy down the left, especially after Zaroury came on, but we weren’t getting enough players in the box on the rare occasions when a cross was delivered.

If we continue to play so narrow, we make it easy for teams like Preston to defend against us.

[Belgianclaret]

In my opinion, we most of all missed playing vertical balls through the lines in the second half. These have brought us so many success in the previous games, and were causing PNE lots of problems in the first half.
Second half, we were too stationary and by passing back and wide all the time at a tempo which was not quick enough, we closed play for ourselves.
Only at the end, when Maatsen en Zaroury combined, we got the ball back in the danger area

[IanMcL]

I found it very boring apart from the last knockings with 2 subs down the left.

We should have taken them apart. Sadly, when the space has been made for a ball in, nothing happens.

All the teams we play get a couple of possessions and look dangerous.
Muric slipping is just his latest calamity. One match good one match calamity is not good enough to win anything.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Pope / Heaton slip and its an accident

Muric slips and he's a calamity

[Vegas Claret]

I'd like to see us taking a few longer range shots, a bit too easy for opponents to sit in at the moment

[Pickles]

The thing I don’t understand is that we have signed a load of wingers but there seems to be a real reluctance to get the ball out wide.

Interesting. I thought the exact opposite. We went wide too often last night and it was frustrating, especially with our hesitancy to cross. There was a real lack of penetration and runners from central areas.

[northernpowerhouse]

We don't create enough chances for the amount of possession we have. It's a bit sterile at times. We need a creator further up the pitch, either Twine operating as number 10 or Dervisoglu as a striker coming deep. I think we'll come good but the setup isn't quite right yet.

[burnleymik]

Jay is having a great season, really impressed with his passion and effort, unfortunately he ends up isolated too often against the teams that sit in. VK needs to find a way for us to get more support around him when we have teams under the cosh.

[Colburn_Claret]

Jay is having a great season, really impressed with his passion and effort, unfortunately he ends up isolated too often against the teams that sit in. VK needs to find a way for us to get more support around him when we have teams under the cosh.

Agreed
As we can't play 12 players, and I can't see us playing 3 at the back, it has to be one of the wingers coming in to the middle. Then the FB pushes up to take his place.
It's all about rotating the positions, but despite lots of good play last night, nobody gave Jay a hand.

[quoonbeatz]

Muric slipping is just his latest calamity. One match good one match calamity is not good enough to win anything.

Good job he hasn't been anything like that then.

[Taffy on the wing]

We just need to move the ball quicker.

In the last 10 mins when we upped the pace a bit and actually got the byline With a low fizzing cross we caused havoc in their back line. That’s what we need to do. All it takes is one of them moments to break for us and it will and we score.

Also game management could be better, when we take the lead that should be perfect for us as the opposition have to open up a bit. Tonight’s goal we conceded was very unlucky however.

Agree with this......way too many sideways & slightly backward passes, Roberts being the worst offender. It makes it too easy to defend against.
I know i'm picking on Roberts but he can't cross a ball worth a damn.
Lowton next game please.

[Jamesy]

Running into a brick wall for 90 mins.

Never going wide, just pass pass pass pass back, run through middle, fail, retry...


Why did we not switch it up after an hour of doing that?

Oh and VK tries to play like barca or city yet he doesn't realise we don't have any skill in the team. They're being forced to making silly mistakes by playing how they're not good enough - a bit like under Dyche.

Can’t really disagree with you. Far too much tippy tappy pass pass football and no end product. I am starting to findi it tedious to watch. Some think we will just click soon and then start to give teams a pasting. I can’t see it personally.

[Swizzlestick]

We gave a team a pasting two weeks ago.

[Swizzlestick]

Just to add (as I can't edit) - that same team has drawn with Norwich, West Brom and Bristol City this season, just before anybody else who can't move on from Dyche tries to diminish that achievement.

[RVclaret]

Just to add (as I can't edit) - that same team has drawn with Norwich, West Brom and Bristol City this season, just before anybody else who can't move on from Dyche tries to diminish that achievement.

Yep it’s the only game they’ve lost all season.

[Marney&Mee]

We gave a team a pasting two weeks ago.

Battered Millwall as well to be fair

[boatshed bill]

Imagine what a £50million striker would add.

[Jakubclaret]

Imagine showing some testicular fortitude & turning away from the pound signs 1 or 2 kept would have us sitting pretty & more or less storming the league, 3rd strongest team to go down but I think Norwich & Watford will finish above us in the final reckoning.

[evensteadiereddie]

?

[boatshed bill]

Imagine showing some testicular fortitude & turning away from the pound signs 1 or 2 kept would have us sitting pretty & more or less storming the league, 3rd strongest team to go down but I think Norwich & Watford will finish above us in the final reckoning.

I think you are missing the point that the debt needs paying off.

[Jakubclaret]

The debt shouldn’t be there in the first place, yes i understand & accept it deal with it blah blah build a bridge come to terms with it etc etc, there’s no getting away from it the debt shouldn’t be there & it’s absolutely crippling the club pretending it’s not true won’t make it disappear, at some point the reality & acceptance need to meet we are where we are because of the debt & that’s completely influencing the future direction of the club, the debt won’t need paying off if it wasn’t there & it shouldn’t be there.

[quoonbeatz]

at some point the reality & acceptance need to meet

Let us know when you reach that point.

[DanH90]

I don’t think we were too far off last night. Bristol City will play in a similar way so I’d put Maatsen in for Vitinho to give us some more natural width and be tempted to bring Zaroury in for Benson.

Not sure how far Twine is off fitness but I really do think he’s a missing piece. His ability to manipulate the ball in tight areas and play incisive passes in and around the box will prove invaluable. Hope he’s back soon!

[Jakubclaret]

Let us know when you reach that point.

Bit late in the day for that I called this sh1t months ago including the fire sale whilst some people were still chuckling & occupied with the idea that Newcastle were dead certs, it’s probably well advanced 12 months.

[boatshed bill]

Bit late in the day for that I called this sh1t months ago including the fire sale whilst some people were still chuckling & occupied with the idea that Newcastle were dead certs, it’s probably well advanced 12 months.

best you give yourself a round of applause then.
in the real world we are where we are and it's nowhere near as bad as the picture you are painting.

[Jakubclaret]

best you give yourself a round of applause then.
in the real world we are where we are and it's nowhere near as bad as the picture you are painting.

Not YET no failure to get promoted at the first time of asking will get interesting especially with the 3 loanees who are scoring & are unlikely to feature, it’s in the making & I don’t need the round of applause I take no satisfaction in our demise.

[boatshed bill]

Not YET no failure to get promoted at the first time of asking will get interesting especially with the 3 loanees who are scoring & are unlikely to feature, it’s in the making & I don’t need the round of applause I take no satisfaction in our demise.

Demise?
We are in transition, that's all.

[Jakubclaret]

Demise?
We are in transition, that's all.

I respectfully beg to differ I’d replace the transition with denial.

[Lancasterclaret]

What is the resident loon going on about now?

[dougcollins]

I'd like to see us taking a few longer range shots, a bit too easy for opponents to sit in at the moment

To be honest, that's exactly what Preston wanted. So many bodies in the way it was unlikely we could score from outside the box.

A team called Burnley used to do exactly that in the Premier League, do you remember?

[jojomk1]

Clearly VK is highly influenced by his very successful time at City and the tactics employed by Pep
But there are differences - and I don't just mean the actual physical attributes of the players
Watching tonight, City play with four at the back and one holding midfield player (Rodri)
We play two holding midfielders - Cullen and Cork
Cork is more advanced of the two and I thought he was excellent in the first half against PNE
Trouble is he tires in the second 45 and we then lose any forward impetus
Cullen is just a younger version of Westwood ie majority of his passes are backwards or sideways and he hardly ever gets into the final third of the pitch
We need to maybe try something else ie maybe 4-1-4-1
Maatsen or Tella gives us a good chance down the left hand side to get to the bye line and cross from there
Benson unfortunately does not - like JBG he has little or no confidence with his right foot so defenders can just show him down the line and he becomes pretty ineffective
Vitinho could play left back with Maatsen or Tella further forward and Churlinhov or Zahoury could play in front of Roberts
Brownhill and Twine through the middle supporting Jay or whoever
Cullen or Cork holding - but not both