Flu & covid jabs

[Bosscat]

I doubt that very much as I have a grapefruit every morning,then run a 10k at decent speed, (45mins), and eat 5 mandarin oranges a day.

You won't get Scurvy then Bill

[martin_p]

I doubt that very much as I have a grapefruit every morning,then run a 10k at decent speed, (45mins), and eat 5 mandarin oranges a day.

Not being funny, but how could that be proved.

[taio]

OK. So I've had Covid19 3 times since having the regular jabs as advised.
so how can it be proved that I would have been more seriously affected had I not been vaccinated?
Who knows how ill I either was or could have been? No one asked me, and I'm guessing I'm not alone in this.

Your response was to a post about the efficacy of the flu vaccine.

But that aside, the answer is the same - robust scientific or medical studies, such as randomised control trials.

Not sure why you're now making it about you when you asked general questions about proof.

[Padiham2022]

Slightly crazy how we are divided . Ever seen hypernormalisation by Adam Curtis ? Don’t question anything, put your head in the sand cos everything is normal , get totally polarised , smugly dismiss anything uncomfortable with Occam’s razor

[Padiham2022]

Not being funny, but how could that be proved.

He can count up to 5 and has a stop watch ?

[Padiham2022]

Not being funny, but how could that be proved.

He can count up to 5 and has a stop watch ?

[boatshed bill]

Your response was to a post about the efficacy of the flu vaccine.

But that aside, the answer is the same - robust scientific or medical studies, such as randomised control trials.

Not sure why you're now making it about you when you asked general questions about proof.

I am my own case study.
I could be anyone. What I am asking is how can it be proved that I would be more ill without the vaccine when nobody knows how ill I have been.
I actually wish I'd never had the vaccine as I was perfectly healthy before having it.

[Bosscat]

I am my own case study.
I could be anyone. What I am asking is how can it be proved that I would be more ill without the vaccine when nobody knows how ill I have been.
I actually wish I'd never had the vaccine as I was perfectly healthy before having it.

Are you perfectly healthy after having it Bill

[Bosscat]

I am my own case study.
I could be anyone. What I am asking is how can it be proved that I would be more ill without the vaccine when nobody knows how ill I have been.
I actually wish I'd never had the vaccine as I was perfectly healthy before having it.

If you're running 10k every morning after your Grapefruit then you are reasonably fit and healthy

[boatshed bill]

If you're running 10k every morning after your Grapefruit then you are reasonably fit and healthy

To be honest, Boss, I was doing a bit of the old parody there (the vitamin C and exercise post ), but I was very healthy until they ended the lockdown and brought in the vaccinations.
I don't believe my health has improved through the perceived safety given by the vaccinations.
Having said that I've gone with the programme, I would like to think it's been good for me, but i have no proof of that.

[pushpinpussy]

I urge people to do all they can to enhance the health and functioning of their immune system naturally. The evidence tells us that a nutrient diet, regular exercise and adequate sleep can all contribute to the best possible immune function. So, keep yourself fit. Eat healthy. Sleep well. Stay stress free. Take natural vitamin and minerals. I use something called AG1. There are 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole-food sourced nutrients in one serving. Then, seriously contemplate what additional protection would be gained from vaccinations from Flu and Covid. When people make decisions based on the latest science, which is always evolving but no one knows if it will work, the decision to stay vaccine free should become much clearer for the doubters.

[ClaretinJapan]

Never had any jabs. Got Covid in summer. High fever, lowered with aspirin then a good sleep. Took Vitamin C,D Quertecin and Zinc at first symptoms. Fine after 3 days.

[Zlatan]

I urge people to do all they can to enhance the health and functioning of their immune system naturally. The evidence tells us that a nutrient diet, regular exercise and adequate sleep can all contribute to the best possible immune function. So, keep yourself fit. Eat healthy. Sleep well. Stay stress free. Take natural vitamin and minerals. I use something called AG1. There are 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole-food sourced nutrients in one serving. Then, seriously contemplate what additional protection would be gained from vaccinations from Flu and Covid. When people make decisions based on the latest science, which is always evolving but no one knows if it will work, the decision to stay vaccine free should become much clearer for the doubters.

Please do tell me precisely how the human immune system works, and when you’ve explained that carry on and explain how a fully functioning immune system would respond to a viral infection it has not been exposed to before - with emphasis on how well it will respond compared to a similar immune system that has previously been exposed to the same viral infection?

[bfcjg]

https://news.sky.com/story/why-australi ... k-12754782
Why risk getting severe flu when for free or say £16 -20 you can get protected with scientific,medically approved safe vaccines?

[Hipper]

Had flu jab since I was young (had asthma for years although last couple of years I've barely noticed it). Still got flu in 2017 and it floored me for a week - that despite me taking care of myself and consistently exercising and/or playing sports for years

Also had the first 3 COVID jabs, but after contracting COVID in Jan this year, I'm taking my chances with not having the latest booster as it didn't affect me at all, certainly nothing like the flu anyway, so I figure that I'd rather not have any medication if I can get away with it

OK. So I've had Covid19 3 times since having the regular jabs as advised.
so how can it be proved that I would have been more seriously affected had I not been vaccinated?
Who knows how ill I either was or could have been? No one asked me, and I'm guessing I'm not alone in this.

It is said that the effect of the vaccine is reduced over time so you need a regular boost. In addition the latest Covid booster vaccine also helps you deal with the latest version of the virus.

I agree with the principle of avoiding unnecessary medication. It's just a judgement as to whether this Covid vaccine is necessary. We are advised by our medical people that it is, at least for those over 50 and other vulnerable people. Unless there is good reason I will follow such advice. I'm not convinced by the above reasoning but it's your choice.

[Rileybobs]

There are a disproportionate number of stupid people on this thread.

[Bosscat]

There are a disproportionate number of stupid people on this thread.

Know what you mean

[Swizzlestick]

I urge people to do all they can to enhance the health and functioning of their immune system naturally. The evidence tells us that a nutrient diet, regular exercise and adequate sleep can all contribute to the best possible immune function. So, keep yourself fit. Eat healthy. Sleep well. Stay stress free. Take natural vitamin and minerals. I use something called AG1. There are 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole-food sourced nutrients in one serving. Then, seriously contemplate what additional protection would be gained from vaccinations from Flu and Covid. When people make decisions based on the latest science, which is always evolving but no one knows if it will work, the decision to stay vaccine free should become much clearer for the doubters.

At risk of sounding a hypocrite re policing of this board, this sort of borderline dangerous misinformation shouldn’t be allowed. Don’t care if it’s some unfunny wind up merchant or not.

[martin_p]

There are a disproportionate number of stupid people on this thread.

I suspect a study might reasonably conclude that the covid vaccine prevents stupidity.

[bfcjg]

Universal flu vaccine by next year,developed by highly qualified highly skilled doctors, scientists and researchers, just need the approval of certain message board members who Google things and it's full steam ahead with production.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/universal-flu ... 09065.html

[Volvoclaret]

Forget the universal flu jab, we want free vitamins and treadmills from the NHS.

[Bosscat]

Forget the universal flu jab, we want free vitamins and treadmills from the NHS.

[Hipper]

Forget the universal flu jab, we want free vitamins and treadmills from the NHS.

Sex is good exercise too?

[bfcjg]

Sex is good exercise too?

How big is your right bicep?

[tiger76]

Sex is good exercise too?

Prefer a good walk myself, but each to their own.

And yes that does say walk.

[keith1879]

Apologies for resuscitating an old thread. I have recently been doing a lot of research into the claims of Dr John Campbell. (He isn't a medical doctor by the way). I have found various sources in terms of fact-checking sites and also a youtube channel called Back to the Science (this is presented by an unbelievably irritating Australian lady - but seems to be very strong on facts). I have followed up some of her links and concluded that John Campbell's interpretation of statistics is mostly very faulty - in some cases he just downright lies.

I don't expect dedicated anti-vaxxers to be moved in the slightest but if you are inclined to believe John Campbell from a neutral starting point then I urge you to at least be a little challenging before you believe him. Frankly - I doubt if you will believe him after any but the most cursory checking process.

[Lancasterclaret]

Apologies for resuscitating an old thread. I have recently been doing a lot of research into the claims of Dr John Campbell. (He isn't a medical doctor by the way). I have found various sources in terms of fact-checking sites and also a youtube channel called Back to the Science (this is presented by an unbelievably irritating Australian lady - but seems to be very strong on facts). I have followed up some of her links and concluded that John Campbell's interpretation of statistics is mostly very faulty - in some cases he just downright lies.

I don't expect dedicated anti-vaxxers to be moved in the slightest but if you are inclined to believe John Campbell from a neutral starting point then I urge you to at least be a little challenging before you believe him. Frankly - I doubt if you will believe him after any but the most cursory checking process.

You should know by now that zealots never listen to stuff like this

Mind you, what chance do we have when serving MPs actually think its fine to back stuff that is blatantly untrue

[Bigbopper]

Apologies for resuscitating an old thread. I have recently been doing a lot of research into the claims of Dr John Campbell. (He isn't a medical doctor by the way). I have found various sources in terms of fact-checking sites and also a youtube channel called Back to the Science (this is presented by an unbelievably irritating Australian lady - but seems to be very strong on facts). I have followed up some of her links and concluded that John Campbell's interpretation of statistics is mostly very faulty - in some cases he just downright lies.

I don't expect dedicated anti-vaxxers to be moved in the slightest but if you are inclined to believe John Campbell from a neutral starting point then I urge you to at least be a little challenging before you believe him. Frankly - I doubt if you will believe him after any but the most cursory checking process.

I always think that anybody without a medical qualification yet calls themselves "Dr" is likely to be a bit of a T---.

[Devils_Advocate]

I always think that anybody without a medical qualification yet calls themselves "Dr" is likely to be a bit of a T---.

Apart from Dr Johnny Bananas who's a top bloke

[Bosscat]

I always think that anybody without a medical qualification yet calls themselves "Dr" is likely to be a bit of a T---.

[Lancasterclaret]

Apart from Dr Johnny Bananas who's a top bloke

Doctor Feelgood

The Doctor from the Muppets

Probably more

But certainly not random internet blokes desperate for complete weirdoes to buy into their daft theories

[martin_p]

Apologies for resuscitating an old thread. I have recently been doing a lot of research into the claims of Dr John Campbell. (He isn't a medical doctor by the way). I have found various sources in terms of fact-checking sites and also a youtube channel called Back to the Science (this is presented by an unbelievably irritating Australian lady - but seems to be very strong on facts). I have followed up some of her links and concluded that John Campbell's interpretation of statistics is mostly very faulty - in some cases he just downright lies.

I don't expect dedicated anti-vaxxers to be moved in the slightest but if you are inclined to believe John Campbell from a neutral starting point then I urge you to at least be a little challenging before you believe him. Frankly - I doubt if you will believe him after any but the most cursory checking process.

Remember, question everything……. except an internet ‘doctor’ who tells you vaccines are bad!

[Bosscat]

Remember, question everything……. except an internet ‘doctor’ who tells you vaccines are bad!

Especially one who "specialises in misinformation"

[Quickenthetempo]

Why did AstraZeneca get withdrawn from Britain?

[Burnley1989]

Why did AstraZeneca get withdrawn from Britain?

Because we are now using mRNA vaccines now as boosters

[Quickenthetempo]

Because we are now using mRNA vaccines now as boosters

Do the other company Phyzer make them?

[RicardoMontalban]

Why did AstraZeneca get withdrawn from Britain?

Policy change in vaccine rollout to solely mRNA types plus, from a public buy-in point of view, enough people got the heebie-jeebies it to make it counter productive.

[Devils_Advocate]

Why did AstraZeneca get withdrawn from Britain?

The UK government made a decision to stop ordering AstraZeneca because evidence showed that the mRNA vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna, are more effective at boosting protection from Covid-19.

I think there was is also something related to how the intellectual property rights are set out for for the AstraZeneca vaccine making it much more costly to continue research and development but Id need to look that up to refresh myself on the full details

[keith1879]

Remember, question everything……. except an internet ‘doctor’ who tells you vaccines are bad!

Two points here.

1. he isn't a medical doctor (he does have a PhD so he is entitled to use the title "Doctor")
2. I questioned his statements because (not being an expert in these fields) I was worried that he might be right. I know enough of statistics to be quite sure now that he is basically talking cock on a number of subjects although I needed some hints from elsewhere to guide me. A good example is his recent obsession with "excess deaths". He highlights a figure as being "excess deaths" when it is nothing of the sort.

[claretcarrot93]

Considering how far the goalposts have been shifted to the effectiveness of the COVID vaccine from now to when it first come out, clearly its only right questions can be asked.

People were told you could not catch and spread it if you are vaccinated which turned out to be a lie.

There are plenty of doctors and scientists (more and more as time goes on) who have also called it out want it looking into further, so there is no need to be as condescending as some people are on this thread too others rightfully asking questions. It's not black and white.

[Lancasterclaret]

Considering how far the goalposts have been shifted to the effectiveness of the COVID vaccine from now to when it first come out, clearly its only right questions can be asked.

People were told you could not catch and spread it if you are vaccinated which turned out to be a lie.

There are plenty of doctors and scientists (more and more as time goes on) who have also called it out want it looking into further, so there is no need to be as condescending as some people are on this thread too others rightfully asking questions. It's not black and white.

There is asking questions, and there is full on down the rabbit hole ********

[martin_p]

Two points here.

1. he isn't a medical doctor (he does have a PhD so he is entitled to use the title "Doctor")
2. I questioned his statements because (not being an expert in these fields) I was worried that he might be right. I know enough of statistics to be quite sure now that he is basically talking cock on a number of subjects although I needed some hints from elsewhere to guide me. A good example is his recent obsession with "excess deaths". He highlights a figure as being "excess deaths" when it is nothing of the sort.

Hi Keith, I was trying (in my own clumsy way) to applaud your research on some of these anti-vax theories as the people who tend to believe them without question are the same people who say ‘I have my own mind, I question everything’.

[martin_p]

Considering how far the goalposts have been shifted to the effectiveness of the COVID vaccine from now to when it first come out, clearly its only right questions can be asked.

People were told you could not catch and spread it if you are vaccinated which turned out to be a lie.

There are plenty of doctors and scientists (more and more as time goes on) who have also called it out want it looking into further, so there is no need to be as condescending as some people are on this thread too others rightfully asking questions. It's not black and white.

People were not told that. They were certainly told they’d be less likely to catch and transmit the virus (the jury is out on that one, it might not be the case but then the original claim was only made for the alpha variant plus we’re no longer in lockdown and the rates haven’t skyrocketed) and less likely to be hospitalised/die (which I think has been pretty much proven if you map hospitalisation/deaths against numbers with COVID they’ve gone down significantly).

[keith1879]

Considering how far the goalposts have been shifted to the effectiveness of the COVID vaccine from now to when it first come out, clearly its only right questions can be asked.

People were told you could not catch and spread it if you are vaccinated which turned out to be a lie.

There are plenty of doctors and scientists (more and more as time goes on) who have also called it out want it looking into further, so there is no need to be as condescending as some people are on this thread too others rightfully asking questions. It's not black and white.

I think that's fair comment - but if you're asking the questions you need to be prepared for the answers to go either way.

In my case I find John Campbell to be a pleasant and professional sort of bloke (in fact rather like a Doctor!!) but every time I have looked into one of his worrying claims about the vaccines (although they are often hints rather than direct claims) my conclusion has been that he cannot be relied upon.

In contrast the irritating Australian Doctor (also a PhD rather than a medical doctor) on Back To The Science has mannerisms and a voice that make me want to switch off.....but I have checked some of what she has to say and found it to be reliable.

In the end we can't know everything - we have to choose who to trust.

[keith1879]

Hi Keith, I was trying (in my own clumsy way) to applaud your research on some of these anti-vax theories as the people who tend to believe them without question are the same people who say ‘I have my own mind, I question everything’.

Thanks mate. Hopefully between us we have brought the point even more into the open.

[claretcarrot93]

People were not told that. They were certainly told they’d be less likely to catch and transmit the virus (the jury is out on that one, it might not be the case but then the original claim was only made for the alpha variant plus we’re no longer in lockdown and the rates haven’t skyrocketed) and less likely to be hospitalised/die (which I think has been pretty much proven if you map hospitalisation/deaths against numbers with COVID they’ve gone down significantly).

Dr Fauci literally said it. The president of the US also said it.

[martin_p]

Dr Fauci literally said it. The president of the US also said it.

When?

[RVclaret]

When?

Biden:

"This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated," Biden said in the full interview. "The unvaccinated. Not the vaccinated, the unvaccinated. That’s the problem. Everybody talks about freedom and not to have a shot or have a test. Well guess what? How about patriotism? How about making sure that you’re vaccinated, so you do not spread the disease to anyone else."

If you read the link below he’d previously said people vaccinated "cannot spread it to you."

https://www.wral.com/amp/fact-check-bid ... /20053317/

Blatant mis-information by the President of the US.

Look, there’s been mis-information on both sides, simple really.

[claretcarrot93]

When?

At the start of the vaccine roll out, a lot of people got them based on that incorrect information.

[RicardoMontalban]

Dr Fauci literally said it. The president of the US also said it.

For the sake of accuracy his precise comment was the risk was “extremely low”. Not zero. But either way that was wrong and a mistake he corrected a couple of months later.

Not sure that advice was true to Britain, but thinking back, as the thing progressed it was all about learning as we went through it. Nobody knew everything immediately but what we did see, and what I think we forget, is that the scientific community did get very good at debunking the dubious and outright junk information that got out. You only really appreciate that now with hindsight.

Doesn’t stop everyone going off piste, mind.