Jordan Beyer

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:31 am

Beyer is very promising with good feet and vision and is getting stronger.But as Claret Spice points out if someone really runs at him he is exposed. No way is he yet a better defender than Steve Davies. SD was imperious at defending and having him in either penalty area was a huge advantage. One of the bravest headers of a ball I have seen at the club

Gp8419 · Post by **Gp8419** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:54 am

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:31 am
Beyer is very promising with good feet and vision and is getting stronger.But as Claret Spice points out if someone really runs at him he is exposed. No way is he yet a better defender than Steve Davies. SD was imperious at defending and having him in either penalty area was a huge advantage. One of the bravest headers of a ball I have seen at the club

steve Davis? Great league 1 player? This lad is prem class.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:12 am

Yeah Beyer is superior to Davis by any measure. But that vulnerability 1v1 is a concern, and the combined lack of physicality of him and THB would also be a real worry in the PL.

He's more than good enough for this season though.

1882Clarets1882 · Post by **1882Clarets1882** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:20 am

Can't agree with the Davis is better idea. The whole team has had several upgrades since his playing days, when at that level he looked good. But that was then and Beyer is the now.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:31 am

claretspice wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:12 am
Yeah Beyer is superior to Davis by any measure. But that vulnerability 1v1 is a concern, and the combined lack of physicality of him and THB would also be a real worry in the PL.

He's more than good enough for this season though.

Think he’s mainly played right wing back for Germany u21s and right back / right sided cb in a 3 for Gladbach. It would be interesting to see if VK might use him there in the PL, while going for a more dominant cb as you say (links to the Metz cb Kouyate in the summer). He’s certainly got the ball carrying ability to play right back in our system, while it would add more physicality / defensive nous to the backline.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:39 am

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:31 am
Think he’s mainly played right wing back for Germany u21s and right back / right sided cb in a 3 for Gladbach. It would be interesting to see if VK might use him there in the PL, while going for a more dominant cb as you say (links to the Metz cb Kouyate in the summer). He’s certainly got the ball carrying ability to play right back in our system, while it would add more physicality / defensive nous to the backline.

The odd thing about this weakness 1v1 is its precisely what you wouldn't expect in someone who has played/can play full back. I wouldn't want Premier League wingers running at him and so whilst I see your logic I'm not convinced it's a viable option.

helmclaret · Post by **helmclaret** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 12:32 pm

I’ve spoken to a few ex pros who played with Steve Davis. The consensus amongst them is that he was too nice - he would apologise after catching you late or giving you a mistimed whack. There’s a myth that he was too slow for the Premier League, but they don’t think lack of pace was an issue, saying he was just as quick as John Terry, for example.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:19 pm

We have two absolutely unbelievable CB's for the Championship.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:58 pm

Steve Davies also played at the top of the Championship for us under Stan, and we were on for a promotion to the PL most of that season. He scored 43 goals as a centre half for Burnley and 65 as a CH in total!! Thats how good he was in the air as most were headers.Its pointless comparing the two as we have been lucky to have both, but some of the dismissive comments on here about Davies is that maybe some of the posters never watched him that often. I can remember Kevin Keagan then manager of Newcastle saying that having SD in your team was like having an extra defender

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:09 pm

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:58 pm
Steve Davies also played at the top of the Championship for us under Stan, and we were on for a promotion to the PL most of that season. He scored 43 goals as a centre half for Burnley and 65 as a CH in total!! Thats how good he was in the air as most were headers.Its pointless comparing the two as we have been lucky to have both, but some of the dismissive comments on here about Davies is that maybe some of the posters never watched him that often. I can remember Kevin Keagan then manager of Newcastle saying that having SD in your team was like having an extra defender

Apart from a question-mark about his top rate of speed (never seemed a problem at our level in his entire career) I don’t think Southampton would have let us make the move permanent. Absolute class act of a player.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:09 pm

Wow.
JB gets done by England international Marcus Rashford and suddenly he is weak in 1 on 1s.
You couldn't make it up.

distortiondave · Post by **distortiondave** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:10 pm

I think you're looking at Steve Davis through claret tinted specs, and I get it; he was my favourite claret growing up, I think 442 magazine labelled him the best player outside the Premiership (I think it was called that then) and he helped us through the divisions; but virtually every single centre half we've had since 2008 has been better than him - Carlisle, Caldwell, Mee, Keane, Tarkowski, THB, Beyer, even Kevin Long and Charlie Taylor. Not all of them have contributed to the club the same, but just like Glen Little is better than David Eyres(what?!) and Dwight McNeil is better than Glen Little (heresy!), Jordan Beyer is better now than Steve Davis ever was.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:15 pm

I've heard it all now-Kevin Long better than Steve Davies. Thats made my Christmas. I love this Board. Davies scored more goals than Kevin Long has started games for us

distortiondave · Post by **distortiondave** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:18 pm

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:09 pm
Apart from a question-mark about his top rate of speed (never seemed a problem at our level in his entire career) I don’t think Southampton would have let us make the move permanent. Absolute class act of a player.

Steve Davis' speed became an embarrassment. We were letting 5, 6 and 7 in by the end.
When we were top of the league in 2001 he was still superb, by the time May 2003 rattled round he'd had it.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:22 pm

distortiondave wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:18 pm
Steve Davis' speed became an embarrassment. We were letting 5, 6 and 7 in by the end.
When we were top of the league in 2001 he was still superb, by the time May 2003 rattled round he'd had it.

No argument from me DD, but the end was a good few years and a lot of football later, at his prime he would not have looked out of place in the top flight. Besides ability, with him and Pender we had some real generalship at the back.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:28 pm

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:15 pm
I've heard it all now-Kevin Long better than Steve Davies. Thats made my Christmas. I love this Board. Davies scored more goals than Kevin Long has started games for us

I think Dave went a bit far with that one.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:28 pm

distortiondave wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:18 pm
Steve Davis' speed became an embarrassment. We were letting 5, 6 and 7 in by the end.
When we were top of the league in 2001 he was still superb, by the time May 2003 rattled round he'd had it.

Admittedly Steve's biggest problem was his speed. Virtually mirrored Ben Mee. But for me these have been imperious for us, and made up for it with their positioning. Yes we were letting in a lot of goals towards the end of Davies's career but he had had several serious knee operations by then and was playing at the time with some particularly poor team mates

distortiondave · Post by **distortiondave** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:32 pm

I just think using Steve Davis as a measuring stick is doing a disservice to all the better centre halves that came later by way of comparison to either Beyer or Harwood-Bellis and that both of them are already considerably better than Steve Davis ever was.
I understand the comparison with Steve Davis because we've not seen marauding centre-backs for many years (King Arthur at Deepdale!), but not a single defender I've named in previous posts is a worse defender than Steve Davis, which was warks' point in the first place.
IMO, of course. I've no intention of being rude about it.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:02 pm

distortiondave wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:32 pm
I just think using Steve Davis as a measuring stick is doing a disservice to all the better centre halves that came later by way of comparison to either Beyer or Harwood-Bellis and that both of them are already considerably better than Steve Davis ever was.
I understand the comparison with Steve Davis because we've not seen marauding centre-backs for many years (King Arthur at Deepdale!), but not a single defender I've named in previous posts is a worse defender than Steve Davis, which was warks' point in the first place.
IMO, of course. I've no intention of being rude about it.

I consider Steve Davis at his prime to be the most likely comparison with relation of all round style of player, Davis was by inclination ‘forward’ minded our defence since has been ‘robust’ first, just different styles of play.

Notsosuperstevedavis · Post by **Notsosuperstevedavis** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:08 pm

Steve Davis had everything. Bar speed.
I recall many a fan saying if he had the speed, he’d have been a top division defender (in his prime)

He also lacked courage of conviction to say ‘no’ when leaving us to go to Bolton.

Those were his two faults.

Robbie_painter · Post by **Robbie_painter** » Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:31 pm

Davis let himself down massively in my opinion,zero morals.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:47 am

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:15 pm
I've heard it all now-Kevin Long better than Steve Davies. Thats made my Christmas. I love this Board. Davies scored more goals than Kevin Long has started games for us

Kevin Long has played at a higher level and has won a number of caps for his country. It’s hardly an outlandish claim that he’s a better player than Davis was.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:51 am

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:29 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:47 am
Kevin Long has played at a higher level and has won a number of caps for his country. It’s hardly an outlandish claim that he’s a better player than Davis was.

Is this the same Kevin Long-been with us over 13 years and averaged 5 league starts a season and on numerous occasions not even made the bench. If he was that good why has no other club tried to buy him in that long period. He may have played for Ireland but had Davies been from Ireland I am pretty certain he would have played more than 17 games for his country

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:41 pm

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:29 pm
Is this the same Kevin Long-been with us over 13 years and averaged 5 league starts a season and on numerous occasions not even made the bench. If he was that good why has no other club tried to buy him in that long period. He may have played for Ireland but had Davies been from Ireland I am pretty certain he would have played more than 17 games for his country

Yes, the very same.

equinox · Post by **equinox** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:48 pm

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:29 pm
Is this the same Kevin Long-been with us over 13 years and averaged 5 league starts a season and on numerous occasions not even made the bench. If he was that good why has no other club tried to buy him in that long period. He may have played for Ireland but had Davies been from Ireland I am pretty certain he would have played more than 17 games for his country

equinox · Post by **equinox** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:51 pm

You keep calling him 'Davies' I know it's only a letter but it's disrespectful.

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 2:18 pm

equinox wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:51 pm
You keep calling him 'Davies' I know it's only a letter but it's disrespectful.

Aye, we don't want him confused with Kevin.

equinox · Post by **equinox** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 2:41 pm

Quicknick wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 2:18 pm
Aye, we don't want him confused with Kevin.

Keegan?

Is 'Kevin' the shittest name you could be called, do you think?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 3:01 pm

Long isn't a judas ******* so there's that too

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 4:47 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:47 am
Kevin Long has played at a higher level and has won a number of caps for his country. It’s hardly an outlandish claim that he’s a better player than Davis was.

Yes, and he's been a massive inspiration, just like Steve Davis was hasn't he?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:06 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 4:47 pm
Yes, and he's been a massive inspiration, just like Steve Davis was hasn't he?

Don’t think anyone has asked who is the most inspirational?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:14 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:06 pm
Don’t think anyone has asked who is the most inspirational?

HaHa. Merry Christmas to you.

Let's face it, Davis and Long is like chalk and cheese.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:29 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:14 pm
HaHa. Merry Christmas to you.

Let's face it, Davis and Long is like chalk and cheese.

Merry Christmas to you too. I don’t think it’s so cut and dried to be honest. Long has been a part of a much better Burnley side, has played at a higher level domestically and represented his country. I think he’s probably a better player than Steve Davis was, but either way it’s not outlandish to compare the two.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:33 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:29 pm
Merry Christmas to you too. I don’t think it’s so cut and dried to be honest. Long has been a part of a much better Burnley side, has played at a higher level domestically and represented his country. I think he’s probably a better player than Steve Davis was, but either way it’s not outlandish to compare the two.

I put it this way.
Regardless of their relative ability, one gave his all for Burnley FC, and one sat on some very healthy contracts.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 6:39 pm

I think at Beyer's age Steve Davis was a tier 4 centre-back who eventually rose to be a member of a top tier two club. Beyer has achieved Davis' success already and may achieve more. That he was sold to us by Southampton reflects Davis' value to them and his abilities at the time he signed in I think 1991 aged 22 years moving to tier two with Luton aged about 26 and that was as far as he got.
Beyer is a better prospect than SD was in 1991 IMO and one might argue 4 years in development ahead of Davis

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sun Dec 25, 2022 6:40 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:33 pm
I put it this way.
Regardless of their relative ability, one gave his all for Burnley FC, and one sat on some very healthy contracts.

I tend to agree. The main reason KL has lasted so long at BFC is that Sean Dyche had been manager for 10 of those 13 years. As we know SD was better at extending contracts than bringing in new players, and in the CH position one of those was the misfit Dyson. KL has been quite happy to be 3rd or 4th choice CH, and at present even lower down than that maybe even 6th choice.Ambitious players would have probably wanted to move on to better themselves

Gp8419 · Post by **Gp8419** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:30 am

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:58 pm
Steve Davies also played at the top of the Championship for us under Stan, and we were on for a promotion to the PL most of that season. He scored 43 goals as a centre half for Burnley and 65 as a CH in total!! Thats how good he was in the air as most were headers.Its pointless comparing the two as we have been lucky to have both, but some of the dismissive comments on here about Davies is that maybe some of the posters never watched him that often. I can remember Kevin Keagan then manager of Newcastle saying that having SD in your team was like having an extra defender

Steve Davis was a legend and a hero of mine,don’t know how you can call people dismissive for saying beyer is better! Granted he’s only done half of a season with us but I doubt our two centre half’s performances have been flukes.They both look absolute class to be honest I would be very surprised if they don’t both play top tier footy for a large proportion of there career.Davis was a goal scoring centre half who could do some outstanding runs from box to box.But he was never a premier league quality player.we conceded bucket loads of goals with him in the team.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:30 pm

equinox wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:51 pm
You keep calling him 'Davies' I know it's only a letter but it's disrespectful.

His Welsh evil twin.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Dec 26, 2022 10:51 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:29 pm
Merry Christmas to you too. I don’t think it’s so cut and dried to be honest. Long has been a part of a much better Burnley side, has played at a higher level domestically and represented his country. I think he’s probably a better player than Steve Davis was, but either way it’s not outlandish to compare the two.

" He brought back Steve Davis for £800,000 a magnificent centre-half who had already been at the Club and sold to Luton Town. Steve had been a key figure in the two Jimmy Mullen promotions and was a proven performer and a great captain. You could say that was the best money I ever spent and he was here at the Club for many more years."

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 8:29 am

I was chatting to a Luton fan after this year's game and he got very excited talking about Steve Davis.
He was a great player and even stood out in the championship.
Never looked out of place in the cup games against top level opposition, even scoring against Spurs.

I don't think anyone can really judge Kevin Long, you would have to play a couple of full seasons for a fair assessment.

Burnley have been blessed with Centre backs for the last 30 years. Some great ones for the level they were playing.

Walkerpool · Post by **Walkerpool** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:16 am

Steve was absolutely class back in the day but this guy could be the future.

1914tyrone · Post by **1914tyrone** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:52 am

Sorry but he's yet to wow me. He looks a good player, as they both do, but I don't think he's been tested too much. Hard to compare to others, but I think unfortunately one of the Centre halves has to be replaced for the prem, just for ariel ability and presence.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:08 am

1914tyrone wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:52 am
Sorry but he's yet to wow me. He looks a good player, as they both do, but I don't think he's been tested too much. Hard to compare to others, but I think unfortunately one of the Centre halves has to be replaced for the prem, just for ariel ability and presence.

I think that seeing as neither of our first choice centre halves are our players, replacing at least one of them will be a certainty.

claretabroad · Post by **claretabroad** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:42 am

Wasn't all the stuff about him being too slow made up by Stan to discourage a manager from a higher tier club who was asking about him?

I don't remember him being particularly slow. I'm not saying he was lightning quick but I don't remember it being a huge weakenss. I could put together a list of Burnley centre halves who I remember moved like treacle and I wouldnt put Davis on that list.

Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me. I do remember he was a class player for us and was surprised he never made it at a higher level. Shame about how his relationship with the club and fans ended.

HiThere · Post by **HiThere** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:50 am

1914tyrone wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:52 am
I think unfortunately one of the Centre halves has to be replaced for the prem, just for ariel ability and presence.

They do look suspect when they have quick forwards running at them which of course you get a lot of in the Prem however with THB having other Prem teams reportedly interested I doubt we'll be signing him on a permanent deal anyway.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:03 pm

Anyone suggesting Kevin Long is better than Steve Davis has to be in the wind up.

There is a reason why Kevin Long has never been first choice across multiple managers. It’s because he’s not that good.

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:28 pm

One has played 50 times in the Premier League, the other played 6 times.

Kevin Long must be one of the luckiest players in the game.

eastcoastclaret · Post by **eastcoastclaret** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:38 pm

Long is leaving in January

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:46 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:03 pm
Anyone suggesting Kevin Long is better than Steve Davis has to be in the wind up.

There is a reason why Kevin Long has never been first choice across multiple managers. It’s because he’s not that good.

Exactly my thoughts-I can only guess the Long followers have started supporting us in the last 15 or 16 years and saw none or little of Davis. He lacked speed and he totally damaged his perception by going to Bolton with Coyle but his defensive skills and bravery were fabulous