The Bar

[Shaggy]

As a side note. Iv been critical of Roberts this season but today he was absolutely superb. He was close to MOM for me today

[nil_desperandum]

I was shocked at the penalty because all I saw was the ball hit the bar and fortunately end up in Muric's hands.

Same from our view.
We couldn't work out what the penalty was for or who it was that was penalised.
Seeing the red waved at Roberts we assumed it was for dissent.

[BurnleyFC]

He’s made some good saves, can’t think of many I’d describe as outstanding. But of course he will make some saves, he’s a goalkeeper. But generally his shot stopping is very poor. His attempt to save their goal today was appalling, whatever excuse you make for it. Just look at the angle from the camera in the JMU, it’s an atrocious attempt at a save.

He’s let in a lot of extremely soft attempts at goal this season. What he offers us with the ball compensates for this in the Championship, his passing today for example was very good. But in the Premier League we won’t be dominating possession and we will be facing a lot more shots at our goal. As I said he will be exposed ruthlessly and I would be amazed if he’s not upgraded on in the summer.

I think he thought the shot was initially trickling wide until it was too late.

If he didn’t then it really was atrocious.

[Somethingfishy]

Crazily poor decision. Sat where I am in Block2 of the JHU it was plainly obvious it had hit the bar. The referee (despite being utterly clueless) got this one right and was led astray by the linesman in front of me. Yes Roberts made it difficult but from his position in line with it he must have been able to see the daylight between the bar and his hand.
It's lucky it was so late in the game.

[whiffa]

He’s clearly hand balled it. Time to take the claret tinted specs off.

Mad as a...

[Somethingfishy]

He’s made some good saves, can’t think of many I’d describe as outstanding. But of course he will make some saves, he’s a goalkeeper. But generally his shot stopping is very poor. His attempt to save their goal today was appalling, whatever excuse you make for it. Just look at the angle from the camera in the JMU, it’s an atrocious attempt at a save.

He’s let in a lot of extremely soft attempts at goal this season. What he offers us with the ball compensates for this in the Championship, his passing today for example was very good. But in the Premier League we won’t be dominating possession and we will be facing a lot more shots at our goal. As I said he will be exposed ruthlessly and I would be amazed if he’s not upgraded on in the summer.

I agree. It wasnt even a particularly powerful shot and he just seemed to make no attempt at all to stop it. It just seemed to trickle in. The Rotherham second goal was very similar. His ability to claim crosses was also questionable today. The incident where Roberts was sent off..he really should have claimed that. There was one a few minutes before where he lost out in the air too. Excellent as a sweeper keeper but ordinary and indeed questionable at his actual job.

[Bosscat]

Its one of those ... if it was the other end ... Handball ... scream for a pen ... at our end hmmmmm was it ... wasn't it ... It was given ... Penalty ... and saved because Muric went the right way ... Connor will miss a couple now but if Vitinho can come back from injury no worries ... end of thread

[conyoviejo]

Its one of those ... if it was the other end ... Handball ... scream for a pen ... at our end hmmmmm was it ... wasn't it ... It was given ... Penalty ... and saved because Muric went the right way ... Connor will miss a couple now but if Vitinho can come back from injury no worries ... end of thread

Why will he miss a couple Bosscat ?

[2 Bee Holed]

It’s nowhere near his hand. Roberts was absolutely fuming, he knew he hadn’t touched it.

He didn't touch it. However, what a crazy decision to flap/swot at the ball. It creates an image in the mind if the ref.

[taio]

Its one of those ... if it was the other end ... Handball ... scream for a pen ... at our end hmmmmm was it ... wasn't it ... It was given ... Penalty ... and saved because Muric went the right way ... Connor will miss a couple now but if Vitinho can come back from injury no worries ... end of thread

It shouldn't have been a penalty and should be rescinded. That'd be the case at either end.

[RVclaret]

I agree. It wasnt even a particularly powerful shot and he just seemed to make no attempt at all to stop it. It just seemed to trickle in. The Rotherham second goal was very similar. His ability to claim crosses was also questionable today. The incident where Roberts was sent off..he really should have claimed that. There was one a few minutes before where he lost out in the air too. Excellent as a sweeper keeper but ordinary and indeed questionable at his actual job.

If you watch the replay of the goal today it was actual a very accurate finish into the near post. It’s a one on one, it’s meant to favour the attacker. No idea why you feel he should do better for Rotherham’s second. If you want to take a look at some crap keeping then take a look at Zak Steffen for Boro today, garbage.

[Bosscat]

It shouldn't have been a penalty and should be rescinded. That'd be the case at either end.

I agree but its not our decision ... Depends on the people in power but I was commenting on the match not the red card ... It was given ... will it be rescinded who knows ... I hope it is ... but can only comment on what the Ref saw

[claretspice]

It's a wrong decision but in real time it's certainly not a shocking or terrible decision. Its a pretty reasonable call in real time.

The really bad decision is Roberts' decision to put his hand up there and respond as though he planned to handle it. That causes the confusion, and its unnecessary.

Thought the ref got a reasonable amount wrong but that decision wasn't amongst them.

[taio]

If you watch the replay of the goal today it was actual a very accurate finish into the near post. It’s a one on one, it’s meant to favour the attacker. No idea why you feel he should do better for Rotherham’s second. If you want to take a look at some crap keeping then take a look at Zak Steffen for Boro today, garbage.

Muric should've done better for their goal. His positioning wasn't good and for some reason he became wrong-footed.

[Bosscat]

Why will he miss a couple Bosscat ?

Red card given ... if its upheld ... won't he miss a couple

[RVclaret]

Muric should've done better for their goal. His positioning wasn't good and for some reason he became wrong-footed.

Fair enough. I’ve watched the replay and think it’s a very good finish.

[claretspice]

Fair enough. I’ve watched the replay and think it’s a very good finish.

Should save it. His weight is taking too far to his left, it's a scuffed finish and if he's balanced, he saves it every time.

That said, whilst having come the onus is on Muric to get a punch on the ball, I think Harwood-Bellis is the real culprit. He's in front of Muric and the attacker and has to get a head on it. If he does the rest is moot.

[taio]

Fair enough. I’ve watched the replay and think it’s a very good finish.

It was an average effort that was made to look better by Muric who was weak.

[Rileybobs]

Fair enough. I’ve watched the replay and think it’s a very good finish.

Bloody hell RV, you seem desperate to defend any error that Muric makes. It’s fine that you rate him, we all have different opinions, but I can’t believe anyone can watch that goal back and think a.) it was a good finish, and b.) Muric shouldn’t have saved it.

[Targetman]

Hahaha, love a Billy big ******** giving it large on a forum.

I’m happy to say I’m wrong having previously only seen it once and without replays.

You were also happy to tell other people they were wrong!

[box_of_frogs]

You were also happy to tell other people they were wrong!

Yes, I thought they were at the time. I’ve since said I was incorrect. But thanks for pointing that part out.

[Bosscat]

Just watched ITV footy show ... Roberts Red should be rescinded "If" we contest it ...

[Somethingfishy]

If you watch the replay of the goal today it was actual a very accurate finish into the near post. It’s a one on one, it’s meant to favour the attacker. No idea why you feel he should do better for Rotherham’s second. If you want to take a look at some crap keeping then take a look at Zak Steffen for Boro today, garbage.

Ok so now I've watched it again and I'm even more certain it was just a poor effort from Muric. For a reason only he knows he moves to his left and shows Watmore an open net to his right. To add insult to it he slips as he realises he's made a bad call and the dive is way too late.

If you watch really closely you can see him saying "There you go Dunc..pop it in there lad". He might as well have done.

[Dark Cloud]

I was shocked at the penalty because all I saw was the ball hit the bar and fortunately end up in Muric's hands.

This.

[Cheshireclaret]

As an aside, as Roberts was walking off it appeared the linesman who had made the decision decided to have a few words with Roberts. I saw no need for that at all from my (admittedly distant) vantage point in the JMU as it looked like Roberts was ignoring him and heading down the tunnel before he decided to shout something at him. Assuming he said something along the lines of 'you know you handled it, I am right' then I hope Roberts gets an apology because it looked out of order to me.

Then again, Roberts may well have been uttering under his breath about what a member he was as he walked past him....................

[It Is What It Is]

Roberts red card will ne rescinded at 9.01am Monday morning.

[conyoviejo]

Red card given ... if its upheld ... won't he miss a couple

Fair enough,but I will be gobsmacked if it's not rescinded as he didn't handle it..

[quoonbeatz]

It’s an interesting one because statistically he’s one of the best shot stoppers in the division (talking about xG models for keepers, not just standard save %). At Sheff Utd, for example, he had a weird game, was shocking at crosses but made 3 top drawer saves. He’s got a lot to learn if he wants to make it as a PL keeper, but I draw quite a few comparisons with how Meslier and Raya were for Leeds and Brentford (age similarities, good ball players that lacked in some key areas), and now they are solid PL keepers.

Neither of them are 'solid' PL keepers.

[martin_p]

Just watched ITV footy show ... Roberts Red should be rescinded "If" we contest it ...

Why would we not contest it?

[Devils_Advocate]

Fair enough. I’ve watched the replay and think it’s a very good finish.

Im with you, the safer option would be to cover the near post and leave an easy target at the other side and if the striker hits it then its the defenders fault for leaving the keeper exposed.

IMO Muric tried to leave no obvious easy target and put the doubt in the strikers mind but the striker reacted quickly and precisely exposed the gap left.

Id rather our defensive players took risks that put their own neck on the line for the better good of the team and I think Muric did that today. His flapping for the couple of crosses that eventually led to the wrongly awarded penalty is where I would direct my criticism rather than the goal he conceded

[Jamesy]

To most of us who saw it once it did look like handball so even though the ref was poor he can’t be blamed for giving a penalty and a sending off with only one look at it. The lino obviously didn’t see it hit the bar either.
Interesting though when we appeal it. Because Roberts had the intent to handball it,will the red card be rescinded?

[RVclaret]

Neither of them are 'solid' PL keepers.

Well they’ve been their teams number 1 over the past 2/3 seasons in the PL, Raya has even been called up for Spain, what would call it?

Let’s go for ‘undisputed PL regular’?

[quoonbeatz]

Well they’ve been their teams number 1 over the past 2/3 seasons in the PL, Raya has even been called up for Spain, what would call it?

Let’s go for ‘undisputed PL regular’?

Let's call it 'goalkeepers who play in the PL'. Raya is a lot better than Meslier, who is total junk, but he doesn't strike me as particularly solid.

[quoonbeatz]

To most of us who saw it once it did look like handball so even though the ref was poor he can’t be blamed for giving a penalty and a sending off with only one look at it. The lino obviously didn’t see it hit the bar either.
Interesting though when we appeal it. Because Roberts had the intent to handball it,will the red card be rescinded?

Yes because he didn't handball it.

[claret59]

Leaving the decision to one side at the moment I seem to recall that once a penalty has been awarded then that can be enough of punishment without a red card as well. The difference could be where the penalty is awarded for serious or dangerous foul play . In this case there was no intent at foul play that could cause injury.
I recall several penalty awards that did not attract a red card as well. A red card results in a two match ban, plus time in the game when reduced to ten men, which can effect the whole team not just the perpetrator.

[houseboy]

This all raises an interesting point. Watched it back on the football league show and it is clear that he didn’t handle it,absolutely, but if it hadn’t hit the bar and had been going in he most definitely would have so the intention to handle it was there, why was his hand up there at all otherwise. So oddly, although strictly speaking he Is innocent he is a victim of his own action. The mistake, by whatever official, is totally understandable under the speed of the game and decisions needing to be made so we can’t criticise them. His sending off, albeit wrongly, is pretty much entirely of his own doing.

[quoonbeatz]

Leaving the decision to one side at the moment I seem to recall that once a penalty has been awarded then that can be enough of punishment without a red card as well. The difference could be where the penalty is awarded for serious or dangerous foul play . In this case there was no intent at foul play that could cause injury.
I recall several penalty awards that did not attract a red card as well. A red card results in a two match ban, plus time in the game when reduced to ten men, which can effect the whole team not just the perpetrator.

It was denial of goalscoring opportunity which is a red card.

[Rileybobs]

This all raises an interesting point. Watched it back on the football league show and it is clear that he didn’t handle it,absolutely, but if it hadn’t hit the bar and had been going in he most definitely would have so the intention to handle it was there, why was his hand up there at all otherwise. So oddly, although strictly speaking he Is innocent he is a victim of his own action. The mistake, by whatever official, is totally understandable under the speed of the game and decisions needing to be made so we can’t criticise them. His sending off, albeit wrongly, is pretty much entirely of his own doing.

Agreed. Stupid by Roberts and he’s lucky that the ball clipped the bar.

[quoonbeatz]

This all raises an interesting point. Watched it back on the football league show and it is clear that he didn’t handle it,absolutely, but if it hadn’t hit the bar and had been going in he most definitely would have so the intention to handle it was there, why was his hand up there at all otherwise. So oddly, although strictly speaking he Is innocent he is a victim of his own action. The mistake, by whatever official, is totally understandable under the speed of the game and decisions needing to be made so we can’t criticise them. His sending off, albeit wrongly, is pretty much entirely of his own doing.

Not sure it's excusable at all. There's a fairly obvious sound when the ball hits the bar. No boro players appealed (one stuck his hand up more as a result of the crowd shouting for it). Taking so long to make the decision implies that neither referee or liner were sure so they shouldn't be giving it. And the ref shouldn't be relying on his liner when he's way closer. Absolute joke of a decision that should really see the end of those official's careers.

[Stanbill05]

Leaving the decision to one side at the moment I seem to recall that once a penalty has been awarded then that can be enough of punishment without a red card as well. The difference could be where the penalty is awarded for serious or dangerous foul play . In this case there was no intent at foul play that could cause injury.
I recall several penalty awards that did not attract a red card as well. A red card results in a two match ban, plus time in the game when reduced to ten men, which can effect the whole team not just the perpetrator.

Red card every time. You can't have players buying a second chance to save a goal for free, players would literally do it all the time. Only alternative is to automatically award a goal in those circumstances, which makes sense but takes away the fundamental part of football.

[Quicknick]

I watched it several times. It was no penalty. Roberts's expression when given the red card supports this view. He looked shocked. He wasn't acting.

[houseboy]

Not sure it's excusable at all. There's a fairly obvious sound when the ball hits the bar. No boro players appealed (one stuck his hand up more as a result of the crowd shouting for it). Taking so long to make the decision implies that neither referee or liner were sure so they shouldn't be giving it. And the ref shouldn't be relying on his liner when he's way closer. Absolute joke of a decision that should really see the end of those official's careers.

Maybe a little harsh bud demanding an end to their careers. Far far worse mistakes have been made. And it is likely the card will be dropped. The point is why did Roberts have his hand anywhere near the ball in the first place. Nobody is saying a mistake wasn’t made but a player acting as Roberts did makes refereeing even harder than it already is. As I said he was the victim of his own action. He intended to stop the ball with his hand on the line but got lucky because it hit the bar. VK should be having a word with him in my view.

[quoonbeatz]

I mean, I wasn't being entirely serious....

Just a 10 match ban for the pair of them would suffice.