Southgate to stay

[Dingo]

I’m pleased he’s continuing and I’m pleased the decision has been made quickly. He’s developed a team that is consistently producing great results at tournaments. This sustained period is the closest we’ve looked like winning a tournament since 1996. We’ll be well placed at the Euros to continue that and it will most likely be his last tournament no matter what happens. Plus I like his character and his waistcoats are cool. He has my support.

[BurnleyFC]

World Cup winner Deschamps will probably be available after today.

Zero shots after 70 minutes in a World Cup final. Absolutely appalling.

[grapidianclaret]

He was never going to leave.
Does not need to be successful.
Has never managed England to a win over a decent team in a WC in the euros.
And yet he is the best since Ramsey apparently.
Would you want him at Burnley?
Ask yourself that question?

A big no for me.

[BurnleyFC]

World Cup winner Deschamps will probably be available after today.

Zero shots after 70 minutes in a World Cup final. Absolutely appalling.

Or maybe not.

[warksclaret]

Its the tactical brilliance of DEschamps and his quick subs that have got France back in it

[Shaggy]

Its the tactical brilliance of DEschamps and his quick subs that have got France back in it

That’s why he’s on the verge of winning another WC where as the waistcoat ****** has won nowt.

[Taffy on the wing]

Oh Great!.....Just like Belgium sticking with Martinez.
He'll never win anything! Too cautious.

[Spijed]

You can't see England getting past the next generation of the French team either in 2024 if they were to meet.

[Vegas Claret]

staying because of a lack of alternative ? Has he improved us, yes. Will we win anything with him in charge ? no

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'm fine with him staying tbh
He's done a very good job so far and he's learned a lot these last couple of tournaments.

[dibraidio]

I boycotted the world cup but could have predicted that England would go out the moment they met an on form top 10 team.
Failed Championship manager wasting the talents of a golden generation.

[tiger76]

staying because of a lack of alternative ? Has he improved us, yes. Will we win anything with him in charge ? no

That neatly sums it up, he has undoubtedly improved us, and whoever does eventually succeed him will have a difficult time winning over some England fans if a semi-final, final, and now a quarter-final is deemed as failure.

No we probably won't win anything with him in charge, however England were hardly ripping it up under previous managers were we, so where this notion that we should suddenly be lifting silverware has stemmed from I'm not sure.

[grapidianclaret]

This notion of us lifting silverware is the same as the Belgian team that just failed again.
The last world cup,we were not expecting to win, euros at home with an easy walk to the final,against a team that did not qualify for this world cup should have been different. Glass half empty ,losing to that Italian team for me. This world cup,with this team we should have done better. Southgate would never manage a top 20 international team other than England.
Says it all really

[bfcjg]

Hopefully Eddie Howe will keep improving as a manager of top players and will take over when Southgate leaves after the Euros.

[Rileybobs]

Hopefully Eddie Howe will keep improving as a manager of top players and will take over when Southgate leaves after the Euros.

Whoever it is it would be great if they continue to take the knee. At least we’ve got another 18 months to enjoy.

[Swizzlestick]

I boycotted the world cup but could have predicted that England would go out the moment they met an on form top 10 team.
Failed Championship manager wasting the talents of a golden generation.

How is this a golden generation? How many truly world class players do we have? Maybe one? Who skied a penalty. How many did Sven, for example, have - five, six?

[Spijed]

Perhaps England need to realise they aren't as talented as some think they are.

[Rileybobs]

How is this a golden generation? How many truly world class players do we have? Maybe one? Who skied a penalty. How many did Sven, for example, have - five, six?

It’s amusing is this myth isn’t it. Where is our world class keeper? Or our world class defender? Or our world class midfielder?

We have a number of very good forwards, but only so many can play, but this is nowhere near as good a squad as we had under Sven as you point out.

I thought England would really flop this tournament, but I think our performances were a significant improvement on the last 2 tournaments, which is why I’m happy to see whether we can do any better in 18 months.

[Goalposts]

Another 2 years of failing to deliver lie ahead. Man is just tactically inept for the modern game and the ability to read a game and make the necessary subs and formation changes against the better teams is non existent

[CoolClaret]

Not a fan of this decision - look what Deschamps did at 2-0 down early in the first… would Southgate have the stones to hook Kane off? Sincerely doubt it and these are the sort of decisions that have cost us.

He’s done well has Southgate but I don’t think he has that cutting edge to bring home silverware

[Rileybobs]

Not a fan of this decision - look what Deschamps did at 2-0 down early in the first… would Southgate have the stones to hook Kane off? Sincerely doubt it and these are the sort of decisions that have cost us.

He’s done well has Southgate but I don’t think he has that cutting edge to bring home silverware

Equally could you imagine the abuse Southgate would be getting if England played like France did for 80 minutes tonight? Let’s not rewrite the last couple of hours. France got a relatively flukey penalty due to having one of the world’s best players, and the momentum took them to extra time and penalties…which they lost.

[Rowls]

I boycotted the world cup but could have predicted that England would go out the moment they met an on form top 10 team.
Failed Championship manager wasting the talents of a golden generation.

Ayeeeeeeeeeee

[MT03ALG]

Southgate staying should ensure a quarter-final exit at the Euros but given a favourable draw we could even make the semi-final Mr.Southgate is excellent at preparing teams not to lose a game but tends to struggle to prepare a team to win a game......

[bobinho]

His man management is excellent , his team selection has improved , his game management and use of substitutions is awful . I also wish he would keep his nose out of all blm , rainbow etc and concentrate on the football . Leave all the peripherals / politics to the overpaid FA executive.

Sadly, the FA don't want him to leave all the peripherals / politics alone. They want him to deal with it in the public realm, so they don't have to. We are actually living through the film "Mike Bassett - England manager".

[warksclaret]

Not a fan of this decision - look what Deschamps did at 2-0 down early in the first… would Southgate have the stones to hook Kane off? Sincerely doubt it and these are the sort of decisions that have cost us.

He’s done well has Southgate but I don’t think he has that cutting edge to bring home silverware

Spot on CC

[CoolClaret]

Equally could you imagine the abuse Southgate would be getting if England played like France did for 80 minutes tonight? Let’s not rewrite the last couple of hours. France got a relatively flukey penalty due to having one of the world’s best players, and the momentum took them to extra time and penalties…which they lost.

We would have been blasted off the pitch playing the Argies tonight with our pedestrian play.

Deschamps knew he needed something different and made changes that ultimately gave them a chance.

Yes Mbappé was brilliant and showed why he is world class but it was players like Muani & Coman that made a difference.

Giroud was their talisman but wasn’t up for it on the day and rightly got hooked.

Seen Kane go missing and be behind the play countless times (penalty miss aside) but he’s kept on ‘just in case’ - most notably the 2018 semi-final game against Croatia, where a certain Jamie Vardy in his prime was chomping at the bit to get on the pitch and run their tiring back line ragged… Of course Southgate kept Kane on ‘in case we got to penalties’ and we proceeded to lose because we couldn’t get up the pitch.

I think I’ve seen enough from Southgate vs other managers at the elite level to know we need to go in a different direction

[Rileybobs]

We would have been blasted off the pitch playing the Argies tonight with our pedestrian play.

Deschamps knew he needed something different and made changes that ultimately gave them a chance.

Yes Mbappé was brilliant and showed why he is world class but it was players like Muani & Coman that made a difference.

Giroud was their talisman but wasn’t up for it on the day and rightly got hooked.

Seen Kane go missing and be behind the play countless times (penalty miss aside) but he’s kept on ‘just in case’ - most notably the 2018 semi-final game against Croatia, where a certain Jamie Vardy in his prime was chomping at the bit to get on the pitch and run their tiring back line ragged… Of course Southgate kept Kane on ‘in case we got to penalties’ and we proceeded to lose because we couldn’t get up the pitch.

I think I’ve seen enough from Southgate vs other managers at the elite level to know we need to go in a different direction

France were blasted off the pitch by Argentina. They didn't show up until the game was nearly gone, and then got back into it with a fortunate penalty. They then turned up the heat for 10 minutes with nothing to lose and took the game to ET. With all the momentum in their direction and the Argentinians crestfallen they should have gone on to win the game, but they failed to do so and ultimately paid the price with a penalty shoot out lottery with the odds stacked against them due to having an inferior penalty saver. If England were in France's shoes today they would have been rightly hammered by the public and the media. This is a classic case of twisting the event to suit a narrative.

That's not to say that Southgate is at Deschamps' level, because he's clearly not achieved anything close.

[Quickenthetempo]

Would anyone on here want Southgate as our manager if Vinny left this week?

[IanMcL]

No trophies for England then. He hasn't got that fire in the belly, hmgoing to win this mentality. Thinks and plans well but that extra bit missing.

[CoolClaret]

If England were in France's shoes today they would have been rightly hammered by the public and the media. This is a classic case of twisting the event to suit a narrative.

It really isn’t.

The changes firstly stopped the onslaught by giving the French more legs, the last 15 they were everywhere and unlucky to not win in regulation.

The point is if Deschamps didn’t make those changes so early then they probably wouldn’t have even made it to extra time - it gave them a fighting chance.

It wasn’t a ‘fortunate’ penalty, it was a stonewaller because the Argies were struggling with France’s intensity - all made through the ingame management by Deschamps.

[Rileybobs]

It really isn’t.

The changes firstly stopped the onslaught by giving the French more legs, the last 15 they were everywhere and unlucky to not win in regulation.

The point is if Deschamps didn’t make those changes so early then they probably wouldn’t have even made it to extra time - it gave them a fighting chance.

It wasn’t a ‘fortunate’ penalty, it was a stonewaller because the Argies were struggling with France’s intensity - all made through the ingame management by Deschamps.

It took France a long time to improve following the first half substitutes (which were only a few minutes before half time in any case). They didn't get close to scoring until they won a penalty, which is why I termed it fortunate.

But be honest, would you be praising Southgate if he was in Deschamps' shoes today?

[Stayingup]

Whoever it is it would be great if they continue to take the knee. At least we’ve got another 18 months to enjoy.

Haha. Can't believe I've just read that. Enjoy losing to the first top.side we meet or watch the political posturing? The idea I thought was to win trophies.

[Rileybobs]

Haha. Can't believe I've just read that. Enjoy losing to the first top.side we meet or watch the political posturing? The idea I thought was to win trophies.

Knee first, trophy second.

[Devils_Advocate]

Ive got to agree with Riley on this.

As much as Id love to see England win a tournament there's certain things that are far more important and the way this England team led by Sir Gareth wear their wokeness on their sleeves like a badge of honour makes me proud and is worth so much more than winning a few games of soccer.

[warksclaret]

It took France a long time to improve following the first half substitutes (which were only a few minutes before half time in any case). They didn't get close to scoring until they won a penalty, which is why I termed it fortunate.

But be honest, would you be praising Southgate if he was in Deschamps' shoes today?

Personally I am not a fan of Southgate staying, but had he achieved as much as Deschamps has in this tournament and the way he tactically gave them a chance and almost won the game at the end, then I would have been convinced that keeping GS on was the right decision. Whilst France have two great players in Mbappe and Grieseman, I believe England had a stronger starting 11. Loris, Giroud,Dembele,Varan and several others in my opinion would never get in the England team which makes Deschamps achievements over the past few tournaments even more creditable. Imagine what Deschamps could do with the England team. Anyone who makes the subs he made before HT has some balls. GS can play a major part in the England team going forwards-however plotting how to win a major trophy is beyond him

[grapidianclaret]

Ive got to agree with Riley on this.

As much as Id love to see England win a tournament there's certain things that are far more important and the way this England team led by Sir Gareth wear their wokeness on their sleeves like a badge of honour makes me proud and is worth so much more than winning a few games of soccer.

Very true.
Was very impressed with the rainbow armbands.

[Carwin261]

Played 20 games against the 8 best teams ,won 4 ,bar set at a very low level for England managers,head down,& don’t rock the boat is all that’s required.

[CoolClaret]

It took France a long time to improve following the first half substitutes (which were only a few minutes before half time in any case). They didn't get close to scoring until they won a penalty, which is why I termed it fortunate.

But be honest, would you be praising Southgate if he was in Deschamps' shoes today?

Hand on heart yes.

Made early changes and gave them a fighting chance.

[KRBFC]

We simply should not be employing people to such important jobs on the basis that they happen to be in the building when the vacancy arises.

It's not that Gareth Southgate didn't have a track record as a manager before he got the job. It's that his track record was one of complete and absolute failure.

The joke is that the England job is going to give him a reputation he truly does not deserve, on the back of being able to pick outstanding players. He'll walk into a job once he finally leaves England and we'll see how good he actually is at managing a team. Whether the joke is funny depends on which job he walks into.

If, God forbid, it's us then it won't be funny.

You sound clueless, his job as England manager will rightly be judged on the job he did for England. His results before/after England doesn't change his results with England.

[KRBFC]

The point is that all you can is try your best to push the odds slightly in your favour. You don't get to control all the variables. You might pick a proven, great manager and things might not go your way. You could equally pick an utter chump and (if you've got a good bunch of players) they might play fantastically.

The only variable you can decide at international level is "Who is going to be our manager?" and if you use the only sensible criteria of asking the question "Is this person a capable manager?" then Southgate wouldn't even have been allowed to take part as a stand-in for dress rehearsals at interview stage.

Here's the story of his inept final full season at Middlesbrough:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%8 ... .C._season

You sound like you wouldn't know football if it smacked you square in the face, fortunately I'm here to educate you.

You're really stuck on this 2008 Boro season but what relevance does this have in 2022? Eddie Howe got relegated with Bournemouth, Dyche sunk us.

Should we not be assessing Southgate's job with England based on his job with England and not a season 15 years ago with Boro? doesn't even make sense.

[Vegas Claret]

You sound clueless, his job as England manager will rightly be judged on the job he did for England. His results before/after England doesn't change his results with England.

I think he is making the point that Southgate didn't even deserve an interview for the job based on him being a failure at club level. However, I would agree it's at the point now though that he should be judged on his performance with England and like I said earlier in the thread - he has improved us but we won't win anything with him as manager. The bigger issue is the lack of obvious replacement for him, I saw one of the newspapers linking Lampard and Gerrard with the job ffs !

[what_no_pies]

"I think you're only expressing opinions that fit your narrative!"

My point is simple: The manager is the only variable we can control. To stand the best chance of winning, we ought to at very least appoint somebody with a good record of achieving success as opposed to somebody with a record of utter failure.

Southgate only got the job because he was in the building. It's a nonsensical way to appoint a manager and we should look to get in somebody with a proven track record.

The relationship between a football manager and the football team is a little bit like the relationship between a horse and the jockey. It's the horse that does 95% of the work and the jockey adds 5%. The football team does 95% of the work. Southgate adds a potential 5%.

Except that if you look at his managerial record, his 5% isn't worth much. If you look at how badly he fared, it's pretty much 0%. Or maybe even -5%.

Everybody accepts there are very fine margins between success and failure in football at this level. That's doesn't mean you stick with a duff manager. It should mean you look to bring in somebody who can maximize that potential 5%.

Any advance on that 10%?

[lakesider]

Irrelevant really. Would only have been replaced by another 'born to lose' character. Won't change until the FA changes, a long wait. Need some more abrasive characters in the team and management set up before we actually win anything. Southgate is good at handling the FA and HR. He needs a bulldog at the side of him in the mould of a Barton/Keane/Stiles type of mentality. One of those wouldn't go amiss in the middle of the park either. Rice is the nearest thing we have.

[Darnhill Claret]

The manager/coach of Morocco and Argentina did not have successful managerial club histories either.

[Darnhill Claret]

Whereas Capello and Ericsson were seen as winners at club level.

[Devils_Advocate]

The manager/coach of Morocco and Argentina did not have successful managerial club histories either.

There was a huge social media campaign in Argentina a couple of years ago to bring over Chris Wilder to manage the national team

[MrTopTier]

I said before the tournament started he should have been potted. The form coming into the tournament was poor.

We didn’t change anything. We failed again. Three tournaments in a row where we had a decent chance and failed each time.

The sad part of this is that the FA looked at the women’s game and said what can we do with a team that has failed.
Answer bring in the best coach they can and change the mentality. Result a Euros win.

The same opportunity presents itself now and they do nothing. Another opportunity missed. England in a nutshell.

[yTib]

fortunately I'm here to educate you.

the funny thing is he's not joking.

[Rowls]

Any advance on that 10%?

No, that's not something I used for mere illustrative purposes. It's a scientiphic prooven FaCt.

[Rowls]

If Southgate gets a job or jobs after England we'll see just how good he is at managing.

Until then, this is just hot air.