The Andrew Tate saga continues

[gandhisflipflop]

Have we signed anyone yet.

[CoolClaret]

''Tate apologists''

Then you dive off the deep end with untrue waffle.

He's openly said numerous times that he runs a successful webcam company, that's not illegal.

The video online is his brother not him and it was with his girlfriend at the time (who has since come out and spoke about it, it was consensual, she wanted him to do that for a skit)

Am I defending him for pointing out things you said that are blatantly untrue?

Ah the king of doubling down on things that he knows nothing about is back -

Yeah - you are…

You’re a supporter, you’re in denial and if there’s a tiny glimmer of blurring the lines to try and ‘prove his innocence’ you’re going to jump all over it - basically the same as how Spiral outlined NewcastleClaret was acting…

What there is ‘blatantly untrue’, have you heard the voice notes where he’s telling a girl how he ‘enjoyed raping her’ and the ‘more you disliked it the more I liked it’

On the webcam ‘business’ - it certainly is illegal when you manipulate people to work against their will… not to mention he also says that he stopped the webcam business outright some time ago!

Do you want a link to videos on rumble talking about the web cam business where he states how he gets the women to be ‘dependent on him’ and also how he scams them out of money pretending that 20-% of the take is going to tax that he pockets himself?


Like I said, connect the frigging dots and stop being a complete moron

[CoolClaret]

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/big-brot ... 094793.amp

Clearly just a good guy trying to save ‘masculinity’ and I still good old fashioned values* in the youth


*manipulating, raping and beating women

[roperclaret]

The guy is an odious apology for a human being and anyone on here defending him should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

[Jakubclaret]

Ah the king of doubling down on things that he knows nothing about is back -

Yeah - you are…

You’re a supporter, you’re in denial and if there’s a tiny glimmer of blurring the lines to try and ‘prove his innocence’ you’re going to jump all over it - basically the same as how Spiral outlined NewcastleClaret was acting…

What there is ‘blatantly untrue’, have you heard the voice notes where he’s telling a girl how he ‘enjoyed raping her’ and the ‘more you disliked it the more I liked it’

On the webcam ‘business’ - it certainly is illegal when you manipulate people to work against their will… not to mention he also says that he stopped the webcam business outright some time ago!

Do you want a link to videos on rumble talking about the web cam business where he states how he gets the women to be ‘dependent on him’ and also how he scams them out of money pretending that 20-% of the take is going to tax that he pockets himself?


Like I said, connect the frigging dots and stop being a complete moron

Just admit you have been telling porky pies, it won't change what most of us think about him or what we suspect to be true.

[CoolClaret]

Just admit you have been telling porky pies, it won't change what most of us think about him or what we suspect to be true.

This is when you’ve confirmed to me that you’re a troll.

Grow up Jakub

[Jakubclaret]

This is when you’ve confirmed to me that you’re a troll.

Grow up Jakub

Nothing of the sort, I agree in principle that this Tate fella appears to be a scumbag without being 100% sure, there's enough rope already there without discrediting the argument with falsehoods.

[fatboy47]

The guy is an odious apology for a human being and anyone on here defending him should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Reassuring that it's just the usual 3 or 4 herberts.

[CoolClaret]

Nothing of the sort, I agree in principle that this Tate fella appears to be a scumbag without being 100% sure, there's enough rope already there without discrediting the argument with falsehoods.

I provided one link

Here’s another:

https://youtu.be/J6amLIIXf-w

What else do you want to be ‘100% sure’ ?

[Jakubclaret]

I provided one link

Here’s another:

https://youtu.be/J6amLIIXf-w

What else do you want to be ‘100% sure’ ?

We've done this before it is impossible to be 100% sure somebody is a liar until you have been directly lied to face to face by that person, this isn't about me not being sure it's about you being dishonest, I get it you hate the bloke but there's enough already there & enough people who are already on your side me included, just try to be honest, it helps with presenting more of a convincing argument.

[CoolClaret]

We've done this before it is impossible to be 100% sure somebody is a liar until you have been directly lied to face to face by that person, this isn't about me not being sure it's about you being dishonest, I get it you hate the bloke but there's enough already there & enough people who are already on your side me included, just try to be honest, it helps with presenting more of a convincing argument.

No, that’s not true whatsoever troll.

I’m saying how a scumbag and done scumbag things - provided links of him doing scumbag things… that’s pretty conclusive no?

[Spiral]

The illegality in his webcam business is that he trafficked people into it, which is why he has been charged with human trafficking, and not running a webcam business. KRBFC is deliberately equivocating in an attempt to downplay illegal activities and recast them as legal activities.

There are transcripts, released by the Romanian court handling his arrest, and there are sources all over the internet. Here's just one source pulled at random from google, with the transcript posted below it. (N.B. the article says 'exclusive' but these transcripts are now everywhere.)

https://www.gandul.ro/actualitate/exclu ... g-19906266

The DIICOT prosecutors who accuse brothers Andrew and Tristan Tate of human trafficking and rape have attached to the file the transcript of a conversation that allegedly took place between Andrew and a young woman who arrived at the video chat studio in Pipera. The dialogue between the two captures the moment when the Brit asks the woman to tattoo his name, as he did with other women who ended up working for him as sex workers, and also informs her that she is his „slave”.

Shortly after being remanded in custody, brothers Andrew and Tristan Tate announced through their lawyers that the allegations against them were not supported by evidence and that Andrew’s public statements inciting violence against women had only the role of turning him into a character.

However, evidence presented to the case by DIICOT prosecutors suggested that Andrew Tate was engaging in aggressive behavior on a regular basis.

In this sense, Gândul came into possession of the transcript of a discussion that took place between Andrew Tate and a young woman whom he was trying to integrate among the sex workers held in the building in Pipera, where the video chat studio was operating.

Andrew Tate: You need a big hand slap or my name.
Girl: No tattoos baby, I hate tattoos. They are cool on people, but not on me.

Andrew Tate: If I told you to put my name in a tattoo you would, so you better hope I don’t want that and I don’t want it yet.
Girl: So, you don’t want what I want?

Andrew Tate: You want what I want!
Girl: Then it’s a good thing you don’t want me to get a tattoo.
Andrew Tate: Yet. It would be important to me, but first I need to see that you are worth it.
…………………………………

Girl: How many girls already have your name?
Andrew Tate: Two.

Girl: I think we need to focus more on our relationship than on external things.

Andrew Tate: You will write something else, something nice.

Girl: I want to stay pure.

Andrew Tate: Pure women obey their men.
…………………..

Andrew Tate: Where is my dinner?

Girl: Baby, don’t talk like that, please. You know I want to make you dinner, just wait for me to get to you.

Andrew Tate: Slave!
Girl: Please.
…………

Andrew Tate: Belt!
Girl: Do you want me to be your slave or your wife?

Andrew Tate: You will do whatever I tell you, which is the same thing. If I choose a woman to be my wife, she will love me enough to let me tell her what I want. I will decide if she is a slave. She doesn’t make the rules, I’m the man, I don’t listen to complaints from women. Just trust me and shut up, don’t **** me off again today! It doesn’t matter if I call you a slave, it matters that I can if I want to do it without you being stupid. There are enough stupid women. If I want to accept, I’ve got 10,000 options to choose from.

Andrew Tate: You have to accept that you are mine forever, no matter what I do. And if you want me to behave more nicely, you will convince me with tenderness”.

In the context of the discussion, Andrew Tate explained to his „slave” what the girls with whom he ended up living do in the studio:

”Andrew Tate: And they have a live show on TikTok that makes a lot of money.
Girl: then why does he have to work for Georgiana? They can do this on their own.

Andrew Tate: No, they cannot. Not properly, not at top level. They have big teams behind them advertising them. They work on them 24/24. Those girls make a lot of money, it’s not an amateur job.
Girl: Don’t get mad, I’m just curious. I want to know why you brought me here to this house? If you respected me, you would have asked me first if I was OK with this. I thought I would come here and live with you. It’s a little weird for me to see you make me hang out with girls who work for you, especially since you had a thing with one of them. (…) you told me that there was nothing between the two of you and that you take care of her like a „brother”. I’m not stupid, I know there was something more. (…) That was in the past, you put me in the same house with your ex, who is still in love with you, I mean for real… you know what?

Andrew Tate: You are not listening to me.
Girl: I didn’t like the fact that the girls called you „our king”, I mean I don’t like to share, but I knew you wanted this, and I did it for you (…)”

TL;DR, he brings women into his life under the pretence of romantic interest, then when they are in his premises he coerces them into sex work.

The issue is not that he runs a webcam business, the issue and illegality is that the models appear to be coerced, and it's the coercion that is at the heart of the charges laid against him. In layman's terms he's a pimp. Now, his apologists like KRBFC (regardless of what he himself says, KRBFC is exhibiting all the behaviours of an apologist) might try and cast his business as an entrepreneurial endeavour, but so do most people involved in organised crime, and entrepreneurial endeavour does not exonerate a person of their crimes. KRBFC is trying to muddy the waters and misrepresent the charges laid against Tate because KRBFC can't defend him any other way, but nor can he bring himself to admit that for a time — months, years perhaps — KRBFC has been taken in, groomed even, by Andrew Tate and his output, and is a closeted admirer of him. I suspect KRBFC feels it more shameful to admit to himself that he's been groomed than it is to equivocate on this matter. The former (admittance) requires a degree of personal responsibility and vulnerability to accept you've been had, the latter (equivocation) requires no personal responsibility and only demands he press down awkward feelings of shame and disappointment and ignore all contradictions. He's running away from his feelings, rather than confronting them. Well aware of the absurdity of what he's saying and too stubborn (read: craven) to admit being wrong, equivocation means he's never called upon to fully accept his complicity in being groomed by Tate's output and his worldview.

[Greenmile]

We've done this before it is impossible to be 100% sure somebody is a liar until you have been directly lied to face to face by that person....

You literally accused CoolClaret of being a liar less than half an hour ago (for stating facts about a rapist human-trafficker you’d never heard of before last night).

Definite troll / parody account (a good one, though, tbf).

[Swizzlestick]

You literally accused CoolClaret of being a liar less than half an hour ago (for stating facts about a rapist human-trafficker you’d never heard of before last night).

Definite troll / parody account (a good one, though, tbf).

Quickly coming round to the idea his account is just one long bit and, if that’s true, it’s been an absolute hall of famer.

[KRBFC]

Ah the king of doubling down on things that he knows nothing about is back -

Yeah - you are…

You’re a supporter, you’re in denial and if there’s a tiny glimmer of blurring the lines to try and ‘prove his innocence’ you’re going to jump all over it - basically the same as how Spiral outlined NewcastleClaret was acting…

What there is ‘blatantly untrue’, have you heard the voice notes where he’s telling a girl how he ‘enjoyed raping her’ and the ‘more you disliked it the more I liked it’

On the webcam ‘business’ - it certainly is illegal when you manipulate people to work against their will… not to mention he also says that he stopped the webcam business outright some time ago!

Do you want a link to videos on rumble talking about the web cam business where he states how he gets the women to be ‘dependent on him’ and also how he scams them out of money pretending that 20-% of the take is going to tax that he pockets himself?


Like I said, connect the frigging dots and stop being a complete moron

You said he’s never said what his business is then said “do you want a link to a video of him talking about his webcam business”

Brilliant, we will leave it there.

[roperclaret]

We've done this before it is impossible to be 100% sure somebody is a liar until you have been directly lied to face to face by that person, this isn't about me not being sure it's about you being dishonest, I get it you hate the bloke but there's enough already there & enough people who are already on your side me included, just try to be honest, it helps with presenting more of a convincing argument.

Do you still think that Boris Johnson isn’t a liar because he’s never directly lied to your face?? Even though 354 MP,s just called him out as a liar?

[fatboy47]

There's 2 or 3 people on this thread that I really do hope aren't employed in any role that involves children or non-competent adults.

[fatboy47]

Do you still think that Boris Johnson isn’t a liar because he’s never directly lied to your face?? Even though 354 MP,s just called him out as a liar?

Maybe he's never been goosed by Savile either.

[CoolClaret]

You said he’s never said what his business is then said “do you want a link to a video of him talking about his webcam business”

Brilliant, we will leave it there.

I meant his business outside of the webcam stuff, which he has stated before that he’s moved on from - not that you picked up on me saying that.

No, we won’t leave it there.

You’re a state apologist and an admirer which comes at absolutely no shock whatsoever

[Spiral]

I mentioned earlier in the thread about how Tate is totemic of a wider culture, and that culture, as I see it, is the association of masculinity with notions of possession, violence, aggression, confrontation and misogyny, and if you want to see the worst aspects of that culture manifesting in the real world, here's a story that will make your blood boil.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... years.html

From the article:

McDonald, of Northampton, was jailed for six years six months, and will be monitored for a further three years and six months because he is considered a danger to the public, 'with problematic attitudes to masculinity'.

This psychological phenomenon whereby masculinity is equated to aggression and other related concepts — domination, power, ownership (particularly of women), etc — happens in the minds of some people so automatically, so without being questioned, as though masculinity = physical force were an absolute mathematical truth — this happens precisely because you have people like Tate (and others, this behaviour has been going on since the dawn of our species, he's just the latest incarnation of a bad idea) filling relatively young, impressionable, empty, pliable minds with the kind of garbage he promotes, all the while leaving himself enough plausible deniability, enough of an escape ramp to say he has no actual influence on people, while also contradicting himself and asserting that it's because of his influence over the youth that the 'matrix' has come for him, of whatever bullshit he comes out with to defend himself when pressed. He presents a violent and nasty and belligerent and confused picture of the world, and provides a superficially simple way to navigate the complexity and chaos of the world and interpersonal relationships: be like Andrew Tate. But he's not helping anyone; he's grifting, he's exploiting people's ignorance (KRBFC, NewcastleClaret, UGR, CFS, and others on here), exploiting their insecurity in their own sense of masculinity (I am as certain as can be that each and every person on here with even a hint of a word defending him is male, and his wider audience is overwhelmingly male), and when they engage with his output online in any way other than critically they contribute to the pile of perverse social capital he's accumulating, because as has already been mentioned, he's basically running a pyramid scheme, and pyramid schemes need mugs, so engagement feeds into social media algorithms which feeds into audience growth which means more mugs to con. Poor sods.

[KRBFC]

The illegality in his webcam business is that he trafficked people into it, which is why he has been charged with human trafficking, and not running a webcam business. KRBFC is deliberately equivocating in an attempt to downplay illegal activities and recast them as legal activities.

There are transcripts, released by the Romanian court handling his arrest, and there are sources all over the internet. Here's just one source pulled at random from google, with the transcript posted below it. (N.B. the article says 'exclusive' but these transcripts are now everywhere.)

https://www.gandul.ro/actualitate/exclu ... g-19906266



TL;DR, he brings women into his life under the pretence of romantic interest, then when they are in his premises he coerces them into sex work.

The issue is not that he runs a webcam business, the issue and illegality is that the models appear to be coerced, and it's the coercion that is at the heart of the charges laid against him. In layman's terms he's a pimp. Now, his apologists like KRBFC (regardless of what he himself says, KRBFC is exhibiting all the behaviours of an apologist) might try and cast his business as an entrepreneurial endeavour, but so do most people involved in organised crime, and entrepreneurial endeavour does not exonerate a person of their crimes. KRBFC is trying to muddy the waters and misrepresent the charges laid against Tate because KRBFC can't defend him any other way, but nor can he bring himself to admit that for a time — months, years perhaps — KRBFC has been taken in, groomed even, by Andrew Tate and his output, and is a closeted admirer of him. I suspect KRBFC feels it more shameful to admit to himself that he's been groomed than it is to equivocate on this matter. The former (admittance) requires a degree of personal responsibility and vulnerability to accept you've been had, the latter (equivocation) requires no personal responsibility and only demands he press down awkward feelings of shame and disappointment and ignore all contradictions. He's running away from his feelings, rather than confronting them. Well aware of the absurdity of what he's saying and too stubborn (read: craven) to admit being wrong, equivocation means he's never called upon to fully accept his complicity in being groomed by Tate's output and his worldview.

As seedy as it is, it isn’t illegal to run an adult industry webcam business. That is a fact.

of course the illegal activity he has been accused of is illegal duh.

I don’t really watch Tate, I just find it hilarious how politic nerds can’t be objective.

The mindset of most on here is, we don’t like what he says so let’s just deem him guilty of everything immediately, let’s even make up our own lies to throw at him.


you’re arguing things I haven’t said like a true political nerd. I can tell you love politics from that single post.

[CoolClaret]

Spot on Spiral

He’s like most grifters - drops a few kernels of truth here and there to get people onside first then draws them into the grift.

It was clear and obvious he was trying to grift a few years back.

Not sure if some people are aware how he got so popular -

But basically he ran a ‘hustlers university’ and some other crap site where he had videos for instruction on ‘how to get rich quick’ etc and for the people that signed up they got money if they got others to sign up -

He did this by instructing his disciples to upload his content on every social media platform available and add a link to his website with their unique referral code… it’s just MLM/Pyramid scheme on steroids, except it was information to deliberately target and influence impressionable young men.

[KRBFC]

I meant his business outside of the webcam stuff, which he has stated before that he’s moved on from - not that you picked up on me saying that.

No, we won’t leave it there.

You’re a state apologist and an admirer which comes at absolutely no shock whatsoever

I don’t even follow the bloke on social media never mind watch much of his content. But because I’m objective, I’m a super fan.

reminds me of the politics debates on here, first to scream “you’re left wing” wins. Booooring

[CoolClaret]

As seedy as it is, it isn’t illegal to run an adult industry webcam business. That is a fact.

Why do you always skirt around the topics and try and point score win on semantics, whilst arguing from an authoritative position?!

We’re not arguing that a web cam business is ‘illegal’ - we’re saying that coercing and manipulating women to work for you and making them utterly dependent (like pimps do - and he’s on video saying this is exactly what he did) makes it illegal - not to mention underpaying them and not paying his tax.

If tou don’t know the ins and outs then why argue defending him? - it’s because you’re a Tate sycophant and now you’re trying to slowly disassociate yourself from being a supporter him, despite earlier in the thread being a lot more defensive about him.

Its nothing to do with ‘not liking him for what he says’,
It’s absolutely despising him for being a woman beating, rapey manipulator.

(Of which there’s ample evidence online)

[CoolClaret]

I don’t even follow the bloke on social media never mind watch much of his content. But because I’m objective, I’m a super fan.

reminds me of the politics debates on here, first to scream “you’re left wing” wins. Booooring

You’re far from objective. You wanted to argue with me that JJ watt was a defensive tackle then doubled down because you don’t like being wrong (which you are, all the time)

[Spiral]

As seedy as it is, it isn’t illegal to run an adult industry webcam business. That is a fact.

You're only recapitulating the argument you made earlier, and if you read closely to what I've said you're demonstrating the behaviour I mentioned whereby you attempt to equivocate (and also obfuscate), because at no point have I said running a webcam business is illegal. You have represented others as stating that, then countered that it's not illegal, but the issue is not that he runs a webcam business, it's that he trafficked people into it. I'm not sure how else I can explain this to you, and I think you're going to respond by saying for a third time that running a webcam business is not illegal, and at that point I know I'm wasting my time, but I've also said enough on here that your behaviour is being seen for what it is publicly, and hopefully others see you how I do.

You damn yourself by introducing the accusation of political bias into a conversation about an alleged rapist, because it tells me you're so uninterested in the alleged victims, in justice, or in decency that you essentially fall back on a weak ad hominem rebuttal about political bias. It's disgusting to see, but I'm glad people like you are given to opportunity to out themselves for who they are. This is why I hate when threads get deleted, the dregs are given the mercy of not being seen.

[Big Vinny K]

Bollo-x - I’ve ran out of popcorn

[roperclaret]

As seedy as it is, it isn’t illegal to run an adult industry webcam business. That is a fact.

of course the illegal activity he has been accused of is illegal duh.

I don’t really watch Tate, I just find it hilarious how politic nerds can’t be objective.

The mindset of most on here is, we don’t like what he says so let’s just deem him guilty of everything immediately, let’s even make up our own lies to throw at him.


you’re arguing things I haven’t said like a true political nerd. I can tell you love politics from that single post.

Honestly, I think you need to back out of this one. The guy has proved he’s a horrible person and it doesn’t really matter if he’s guilty of everything he’s accused of. He’s definitely guilty of some of it and I think of you did watch some of his stuff you would quite probably stop sticking up for him.

[Volvoclaret]

Bollo-x - I’ve ran out of popcorn

Bosscat usually has some spare.

[KRBFC]

You’re far from objective. You wanted to argue with me that JJ watt was a defensive tackle then doubled down because you don’t like being wrong (which you are, all the time)

Jesus Christ, do you really think I give a **** what position JJ Watt played? I thanked you for the in depth post and got on with my day. I even forgot it was you, months later you bring up a time I was wrong lol sounds like you’re the one point scoring to me.

Btw Google says he played both positions, I just didn’t give a **** enough to argue it with you

[daveisaclaret]

Honestly, I think you need to back out of this one. The guy has proved he’s a horrible person and it doesn’t really matter if he’s guilty of everything he’s accused of. He’s definitely guilty of some of it and I think of you did watch some of his stuff you would quite probably stop sticking up for him.

Unfortunately it is the people who watch his stuff who want to stick up for him, even if they don't want to admit to watching it or sticking up for him.

[Spiral]

Bollo-x - I’ve ran out of popcorn

This is entertaining to read, for sure, but public forum discussions really do work at talking people down from insane positions in ways that algorithmically driven social media platforms do not, because on algorithmically driven social media opposing viewpoints are siloed off and you need to actively seek them out, unlike public forum discussions which are a free for all cross examination of opposing ideas and viewpoints. People can soften their views if persuaded well enough, then eventually they abandon them, then they actively speak out against that which they formerly believed. It doesn't happen overnight to a person, it takes time, and usually what happens is that given enough persuasion a person decides they're no longer going to defend something they might have in the past. From that point they become less emotionally engaged with their viewpoint because they don't have the neurochemical rush of defending a viewpoint they're emotionally invested in. (By they way, they absolutely are emotionally invested, and any nonsense about being 'objective' is a variation on a defence tactic. It goes: "what I say (which is what I believe) must be right and true, for I have declared myself objective, impartial, and central in all matters..." it's very self-fellating to declare yourself impartial and objective). But then, back on to the topic of persuasion, eventually they become more receptive to the opposing view, then they see merit in it, and THEN, finally THEN they begin to critique the old viewpoint — not publicly, privately at first, in their own mind — and before you know it, one day they see something and go "actually, that's not on" where months prior they were actually defending the thing they're now calling out.

[CoolClaret]

Btw Google says he played both positions, I just didn’t give a **** enough to argue it with you

Well done for doubling down again - you have absolutely no humility (I knew you’d do this, which is why I said it)

& you’re absolutely guilty for being everything that DaveIsAClaret & Spiral have said

I really think you need to take a long look at yourself, reflect and change

[KRBFC]

You're only recapitulating the argument you made earlier, and if you read closely to what I've said you're demonstrating the behaviour I mentioned whereby you attempt to equivocate (and also obfuscate), because at no point have I said running a webcam business is illegal. You have represented others as stating that, then countered that it's not illegal, but the issue is not that he runs a webcam business, it's that he trafficked people into it. I'm not sure how else I can explain this to you, and I think you're going to respond by saying for a third time that running a webcam business is not illegal, and at that point I know I'm wasting my time, but I've also said enough on here that your behaviour is being seen for what it is publicly, and hopefully others see you how I do.

You damn yourself by introducing the accusation of political bias into a conversation about an alleged rapist, because it tells me you're so uninterested in the alleged victims, in justice, or in decency that you essentially fall back on a weak ad hominem rebuttal about political bias. It's disgusting to see, but I'm glad people like you are given to opportunity to out themselves for who they are. This is why I hate when threads get deleted, the dregs are given the mercy of not being seen.

Waffling paragraphs of nothingness.

Of course the issue is that he allegedly trafficked people into webcam work, that’s what he’s been charged of (amongst other things). I’m fully aware of that, not sure why such obvious needs to be pointed out.

How can I care about “victims” of this when I don’t know if they’re victims or not? That hasn’t been confirmed just yet.

Here’s your problem, you’re typing like you know facts and he’s been found guilty, you’re getting way too giddy and excited and jumping the gun. Sit tight and let’s see what verdict comes from all of this

[Big Vinny K]

This is entertaining to read, for sure, but public forum discussions really do work at talking people down from insane positions in ways that algorithmically driven social media platforms do not, because on algorithmically driven social media opposing viewpoints are siloed off and you need to actively seek them out, unlike public forum discussions which are a free for all cross examination of opposing ideas and viewpoints. People can soften their views if persuaded well enough, then eventually they abandon them, then they actively speak out against that which they formerly believed. It doesn't happen overnight to a person, it takes time, and usually what happens is that given enough persuasion a person decides they're no longer going to defend something they might have in the past. From that point they become less emotionally engaged with their viewpoint because they don't have the neurochemical rush of defending a viewpoint they're emotionally invested in. (By they way, they absolutely are emotionally invested, and any nonsense about being 'objective' is a variation on a defence tactic. It goes: "what I say (which is what I believe) must be right and true, for I have declared myself objective, impartial, and central in all matters..." it's very self-fellating to declare yourself impartial and objective). But then, back on to the topic of persuasion, eventually they become more receptive to the opposing view, then they see merit in it, and THEN, finally THEN they begin to critique the old viewpoint — not publicly, privately at first, in their own mind — and before you know it, one day they see something and go "actually, that's not on" where months prior they were actually defending the thing they're now calling out.

Listen - nobody agrees with you more than me (ok…maybe cooclaret does !!)

I just thought for a change it was nice to sit in the crowd, eating popcorn and watch one team get destroyed.

Not being flippant either - it’s a very serious subject and I’ve said my piece already on another poster who tried to make this a left versus right thing and far less serious than it very clearly is.

[Spiral]

Wasn't having a pop at you Big Vinny K. Soz if it came across that way. Wasn't my intention.

[KRBFC]

Well done for doubling down again - you have absolutely no humility (I knew you’d do this, which is why I said it)

& you’re absolutely guilty for being everything that DaveIsAClaret & Spiral have said

I really think you need to take a long look at yourself, reflect and change

Doubling down? lol

I thought the JJ conversation was an insightful little convo, you taught me a few things and I thanked you for that. In your eyes it was a heated serious debate and a chance to point score against me

[yTib]

krbfc - a poisonous little sucker if ever there was one.

he loves nothing more than an argument yet never manages to formulate a cogent one.

i'd say it's a new low for him to defend the ghoulish mr. tate but it isn't.

[Spiral]

Waffling paragraphs of nothingness.

Of course the issue is that he allegedly trafficked people into webcam work, that’s what he’s been charged of (amongst other things). I’m fully aware of that, not sure why such obvious needs to be pointed out.

How can I care about “victims” of this when I don’t know if they’re victims or not? That hasn’t been confirmed just yet.

Here’s your problem, you’re typing like you know facts and he’s been found guilty, you’re getting way too giddy and excited and jumping the gun. Sit tight and let’s see what verdict comes from all of this

I think it's telling that you insist on deferring judgement until the matter is dealt with when it comes to judgements on Tate's guilt, his character and his behaviour, but the general concept of forbearance and the importance of discovering the truth goes right out the window when advancing an accusation of corruption within the Romanian police and state...

Throwing away victim statements, refusing to acknowledge victims telling police they're not victims, throwing away CCTV (which showed nobody was held hostage), Romanian politics and corrupt brownie points.

Your forbearance is not coming from a place of consideration for due process; it's coming from a place of it being convenient in you desire to defend Tate. You get to defer humility until a probably years-long trial is over, after which you disappear to Argentina or pretend you were a part of the resistance all along, or some shite. (That's a metaphor; I make no apologies if it's lost on you.)

[CoolClaret]

Doubling down? lol

I thought the JJ conversation was an insightful little convo, you taught me a few things and I thanked you for that. In your eyes it was a heated serious debate and a chance to point score against me

I wasn’t point scoring - but then (much like now) you still tried to assert yourself as being correct… because I was a bit bored I decided to show with definitive evidence that you most certainly wasn’t correct - then you tried to play it off when shown to be wrong with ‘well that’s what google said’

- which is what you’re doing now by trying to get off as being ‘right’, exactly as Spiral said , by equivocating the arguments presented to you.

It’s a really bad trait no matter which way you look at it.

It makes no sense to go online and willingly defend someone that you apparently ‘do not follow’ whilst being completely oblivious to what is actually being charged against him.

You’re either completely ignorant and just arguing from authority as always

Or

You’re secretly a fan and ‘want’ him to be innocent and are defending him, deliberately blurring the lines… whilst trying to make it out like you aren’t by ‘condoning’ any serious criminality (which is out there for all to see)

Neither are good

[Enola Gay]

So… KRBFC and Jakubclaret are thick-as-mince trolls.

Whouda thunkit, eh?

[Damo]

I had a conversation with my son the other day on how he shouldn't be suckered into Tates nonsense.
It must be difficult for him though as a boy who enjoys the traditional things that boys used to enjoy, like playing sports and getting changed in a male only space. Going out with girls who don't have a penis. Eating meat and not getting excessively offended by stuff he reads on the Internet.
I'll direct him to this thread to read the musings of the people with enough posts to take up more time than it takes to hold down a relationship with a member of the opposit sex to keep him in check

[Spiral]

1. Damo cosplays as Andrew Tate with a hollow, attention-baiting troll post on a thread about attention-baiting troll Andrew Tate

2. Damo posts on said thread about alleged rapist Andrew Tate to make a comment containing two notable themes: transgender women with penises, and sexual relations...hmmm (I think Freud would consider this to be your subconscious attempting to box its way out of socially imposed repression)

3. Damo essentially accuses Tate critics of being overly-online despite himself having made more posts on this forum than any other contributor to this page, page 8, of this thread aside from this forum's arch-Tate apologist, KRBFC, ghandisflipflop, who has been liking pro-Tate posts, and, unsurprisingly, Jakubclaret, another one downplaying all this. (Check it, I'm not lying.)

I think this is the UTC equivalent of tripping over a kerb and getting your head stuck up your own backside.

[davideyresleftear]

1A56EB72-BF2C-4D2B-9B05-B1655DED2AE8.jpeg (131.66 KiB) Viewed 897 times

Here’s the role model for a generation of males taunting a guy whose son needed surgery

[davideyresleftear]

Going out with girls who don't have a penis.

Transgender women make up just 0.10% of the UK population Damo, if your son keeps getting caught by surprise then he’s either very unlucky or he’s subconsciously seeking out trans women (and good luck to him if so)

Also 73% of British people eat meat according to Yougov. Tesco is full of bbq stuff right now, and Aldi has pictures of burgers on massive billboards. Meat eaters aren’t being rounded up into gulags.

Not trying to one-up you or anything, just pointing out that the things your son enjoys are actually still the prevailing values among male culture right now, they aren’t minority viewpoints at all, not by a long shot.

[Jakubclaret]

Do you still think that Boris Johnson isn’t a liar because he’s never directly lied to your face?? Even though 354 MP,s just called him out as a liar?

I'm simply saying I can't be 100% sure about people until I've met them face to face & interacted with them & that applies to anybody, I don't listen to hearsay & idle gossip all this might be an unusual concept to you but that's the way I work & always have done.

[fanzone]

I start threads sometimes just to see how many comments it can draw. This one at nearly 400 is now a current record.

It is massively helped with the same keyboard warriors bickering like they do on almost 90% of topics.

Sad really.

[Swizzlestick]

I start threads sometimes just to see how many comments it can draw. This one at nearly 400 is now a current record.

It is massively helped with the same keyboard warriors bickering like they do on almost 90% of topics.

Sad really.

I think it’s been a good debate? Folk have stuck to the topic and, considering the controversial subject matter, broadly reasonable.

What were you expecting to see when you started a thread about such a controversial person?

[fatboy47]

I start threads sometimes just to see how many comments it can draw.

That's not sad at all.

[claretonthecoast1882]

They do say there is someone out there for everyone, sadly there are a few it seems who must enjoy the cam girl experience a bit too much.

Unless there is another reason we have some defending him which is being missed.