Charlie Taylor

[Vegas Claret]

He's an analogue left back in a digital set up.

Brilliantly put, you should consider writing a book !

[KRBFC]

Even stranger when he's the best left back at the club

If you believe Taylor is a better fit than Maatsen then you probably don’t understand Kompanys system, Taylor has never scored for us lol

[KRBFC]

It won't all be roving up the pitch in the Prem. Lots of ladt ditch tackling, blocks and interceptions. Charlie is light years ahead of a sometimes sloppy Maatson.

You cant even spell Maatsen’s name correctly

[jedi_master]

When Charlie Taylor was Ian Maatsen’s age he was playing for Fleetwood in League Two.

He’s been a good, solid pro for us and never let us down but he is not right for Kompany’s team. A move best for all parties as Charlie is too good to be intermittently making the bench for us.

[bumba]

Seriously? Do you watch games with your eyes closed?

I watch without claret tinted specs, he's been poor recently

[bumba]

If you believe Taylor is a better fit than Maatsen then you probably don’t understand Kompanys system, Taylor has never scored for us lol

I don't care who's system it is, in the premier league Maatsen would have to defend more and it's something he struggles massively with.
Would Taylor fit better with more defending to do.......yes

[Big Vinny K]

I don't care who's system it is, in the premier league Maatsen would have to defend more and it's something he struggles massively with.
Would Taylor fit better with more defending to do.......yes

The premier league is littered with full backs who are a lot better at attacking than they are defending.
TAA, Chilwell, Robertson, James, Tripps and many more.
Maatsen right now is a player who is better going forward than defending. In a Dyche team that would not be good. In a VK team it is clearly key.

Charlie Taylor technically is nowhere near the player Maatsen is. He cannot shoot or cross and his one attempt at a 50 yard switch pass this year went as far as my granny could kick it (and she’s been dead for 30 years).

Taylor was a good player for us under Dyche and he’s also played a really important role this year under VK filling in as centre back. He cannot play as left back in VK’s team - that’s unfortunate for him but it’s the way it goes. It’s the same reason why Maatsen would not have ended up at Burnley under Dyche. If Taylor wants to play left back he will need to move on and I hope if he does he’s a success.

I don’t think there are many Burnley fans who ddidn’t like or rate Charlie - and think most people who have a basic understanding of the game can see his limitations in playing in this current set up

[KRBFC]

I don't care who's system it is, in the premier league Maatsen would have to defend more and it's something he struggles massively with.
Would Taylor fit better with more defending to do.......yes

You’re stuck in 1980s a left back in a modern VK system is not there to just defend, just watch how Maatsen is given the freedom to stay high and wide. You say he’s been poor but he literally created the second goal against Sheff Utd

[fatboy47]

I can still smell a bit of longing for the good old "2 banks of four"..

...its a bit like a yearning for the good old days of the blitz, and sleeping bags down on the underground.

[Pickles]

Some odd stuff on this thread by people who I assume haven't watched much of us this season.

Maatsen is vastly better suited to how we play than Taylor is, there really isn't much of a discussion to be had. Doesn't mean Taylor is a bad player, we know he isn't.

[bumba]

You’re stuck in 1980s a left back in a modern VK system is not there to just defend, just watch how Maatsen is given the freedom to stay high and wide. You say he’s been poor but he literally created the second goal against Sheff Utd

Any player can score or assist yet still play poorly overall, 1 stat doesn't equal a 90 minute performance.
It's ok VK allowing that in the championship but he's a clever guy I think he'll tweak that knowing we will be defending more especially after seeing how easy City cut through us

[Big Vinny K]

Any player can score or assist yet still play poorly overall, 1 stat doesn't equal a 90 minute performance.
It's ok VK allowing that in the championship but he's a clever guy I think he'll tweak that knowing we will be defending more especially after seeing how easy City cut through us

Have you seen the highlights of what Maatsen did in that game ? How can you equate that to playing poorly ?

If you score or assist in every game you play and “still play poorly” as you put it why does it even matter ?
That’s like saying a centre forward who hasn’t scored a goal for 3 years but is still playing well !!

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I think it would be wise to hang fire on any decisions as it has been reported that VK is now Tottenhams to target for manager job.

[IanMcL]

Brilliantly put, you should consider writing a book !

Has he got a typewriter though?

[FeedTheArf]

Not in this team

The only reason I wouldn't sign Maatsen is if we couldn't afford him (and prioritised Beyer and Tella)

One the main reasons we've been so good this season is just how good our full backs have been in this system, and Maatsen (and Roberts as well) are clearly our two best full backs

Roberts development in the last 6-8 games has been great! Earlier on in the season he was reluctant to attack a lot of the time, he'd always hang back on the half way line. This could well have been the tactical plan, but either way the shackles have been loosened the last couple of months and he's contributed a lot more going forward whilst keeping up his defensive duties.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

As others have said he doesn’t suit the current system. Decent enough left back though in a flat back four. Not been amazing for us but solid all the same. Not made any massive errors down the years or massive contributions. Steady away.

Goals and assists record is quite poor for a modern full back.

[AlargeClaret]

Taylor’s a very good left back who was rarely “ battered “off any prem stars in a good few seasons . Against the middling /weaker teams he used to work brilliantly with Dwight and either of them bombing down the wing . Defensively he can take a man right to the byline as well . Quick and athletic for a big man and great at last ditch blocks . That said he’s very one footed and is never a CB. Sadly he can’t play a “Maatsen” role as good as Maatsen and he doesn’t score goals . He’s a better LB per se than IM but he’s just not a VK player. Could easily get a top champ gig or maybe a newly promoted skint prem club gig .

[CoolClaret]

Any player can score or assist yet still play poorly overall, 1 stat doesn't equal a 90 minute performance.
It's ok VK allowing that in the championship but he's a clever guy I think he'll tweak that knowing we will be defending more especially after seeing how easy City cut through us

As opposed to how easy they cut through us under Dyche?
Goodjob that we won't be playing City away every week as well then, eh ?

[Jakubclaret]

You’re stuck in 1980s a left back in a modern VK system is not there to just defend, just watch how Maatsen is given the freedom to stay high and wide. You say he’s been poor but he literally created the second goal against Sheff Utd

Next season they'll all be on instructions to backpedal, I think we all realise the game plan will have to change, taking the game to poor championship sides & efficient ruthless PL sides will be interesting to say the least.

[TheFamilyCat]

Next season they'll all be on instructions to backpedal, I think we all realise the game plan will have to change, taking the game to poor championship sides & efficient ruthless PL sides will be interesting to say the least.

How many PL sides would you describe as being ruthless?

[Jakubclaret]

How many PL sides would you describe as being ruthless?

All of them have quality players & the capability to do damage some more than others.

[CoolClaret]

You’d think we were Coyle’s Burnley level of ability with some of the takes on here about how scared we should apparently be next season.

We are miles better than that team with all respect to the legends, and they didn’t do too shabby in the Prem having a go at it.

It would be suicide to radically change our play style.

Anyway, I think too much is made of us being ‘a possession based team’ - I think it comes out that way purely because we tend to play more teams that sit in.

What we can do very well is move the ball forward at pace with precision and be quite deadly on the counter - we should have a lot of opportunities to do this next season because teams will try and take us on!

[Jakubclaret]

You’d think we were Coyle’s Burnley level of ability with some of the takes on here about how scared we should apparently be next season.

We are miles better than that team with all respect to the legends, and they didn’t do too shabby in the Prem having a go at it.

It would be suicide to radically change our play style.

Anyway, I think too much is made of us being ‘a possession based team’ - I think it comes out that way purely because we tend to play more teams that sit in.

What we can do very well is move the ball forward at pace with precision and be quite deadly on the counter - we should have a lot of opportunities to do this next season because teams will try and take us on!

It would be suicidal not to, dyche wasn't known for setting the team up defensively for the hell of it it's what he had to to keep us in the division & it worked successfully so, that's 1 of reasons he appealed to Everton in their position because it's what he's good at. Teams will take us on there's no "try" about it we can't go toe to toe, we need a solid defensive rearguard side for the PL on the same sort of foundations dyche built.

[CoolClaret]

It would be suicidal not to, dyche wasn't known for setting the team up defensively for the hell of it it's what he had to to keep us in the division & it worked successfully so, that's 1 of reasons he appealed to Everton in their position because it's what he's good at. Teams will take us on there's no "try" about it we can't go toe to toe, we need a solid defensive rearguard side for the PL on the same sort of foundations dyche built.

Aye let’s bin Kompany off and get Allardyce in eh Jakub, be daft not to

[bumba]

Have you seen the highlights of what Maatsen did in that game ? How can you equate that to playing poorly ?

If you score or assist in every game you play and “still play poorly” as you put it why does it even matter ?
That’s like saying a centre forward who hasn’t scored a goal for 3 years but is still playing well !!

I remember Kurt Nogan getting booked off after scoring 2 goals because he was lazy, not saying Maatsen is lazy but a goal or assist doesn't automatically equate to a good game.
It's the same with MOM whoever scores gets MOM yet might not of been the best player

[bumba]

As opposed to how easy they cut through us under Dyche?
Goodjob that we won't be playing City away every week as well then, eh ?

The Hull winger was the same, he tore Maatsen to pieces, many other games too where he got ripped apart defensively.
If people think we're going to be tearing through the prem with this team like we have the championship there in for a shock.
We will have to defend a lot more, having a defender who is poor at defending isn't ideal

[Big Vinny K]

Bumba having a proper classic UTC meltdown on this thread.

Tore to pieces
Ripped apart defensively
Assists and goals don’t make you any good

If only we had the best defensive record in the league eh ?
If only our full backs had scored more goals and made more assists in one season than we had in the last 8 years put together.

[warksclaret]

Maatsen has improved defensively since August but still has those uncertain moments, particularly with the high pass to the winger he is marking. He seems to lack that space awareness around him, however he can be having a poor game then suddenly create a goal with his running and energy. I think he will continue to improve, and with VK doing comprehensive research on the opposition each week, then maybe he does not start each week. For example you may not start him against the likes of Mahrez or Martinelli or Saka

[bumba]

Bumba having a proper classic UTC meltdown on this thread.

Tore to pieces
Ripped apart defensively
Assists and goals don’t make you any good

If only we had the best defensive record in the league eh ?
If only our full backs had scored more goals and made more assists in one season than we had in the last 8 years put together.

Can you point out where I said goals and assists don't make you any good?
Sounds like your having the meltdown because somebody speaks the truth.
I said an assist or a goal doesn't equate to having a good 90 minute game, so what your saying is if somebody has an absolute stinker and scores 3 own goals but then converts a penalty he's automatically having a good game?

[tiger76]

Strange thread given Maatsen has played a major role in our romp to the title.

In the modern game the role of the full backs is to get forward and if possible assist and score, which is why many sides are prepared to sacrifice defensive solidity fir the reward of creativity.

In IM we would be signing one of the top emerging talents who can offer things Charlie simply cannot.

Taylor hasn't scored for us in what 7/8 years, and his assists are minimal from memory.

Charlie has been a valuable servant no doubt, however I has doubts whether he'd be effective in our present system, and he's in the final year of his contract, plus he's likely to be among out higher earners.

So if we can tie Maatsen up long term then I for one would be content to move Taylor on.

[Quicknick]

Brilliantly put, you should consider writing a book !

Nothing original in that phrase. I first heard a copper referring to an old-style criminal gang as 'analogue criminals'.

[Big Vinny K]

Can you point out where I said goals and assists don't make you any good?
Sounds like your having the meltdown because somebody speaks the truth.
I said an assist or a goal doesn't equate to having a good 90 minute game, so what your saying is if somebody has an absolute stinker and scores 3 own goals but then converts a penalty he's automatically having a good game?

Nope I’m clearly not saying that
But you are saying that despite Maatsen’s goals, assists, athleticism and clear technical ability you think he’s ‘poor”.
And you saying our defence and Maatsen are being ‘ripped apart” even though we have the best defensive record in the league and have lost only 2 games.
You are talking nonsense.

[bumba]

Nope I’m clearly not saying that
But you are saying that despite Maatsen’s goals, assists, athleticism and clear technical ability you think he’s ‘poor”.
And you saying our defence and Maatsen are being ‘ripped apart” even though we have the best defensive record in the league and have lost only 2 games.
You are talking nonsense.

Again your the one talking nonsense, you've stated all his attacking abilities which I haven't questioned then your saying I called him poor which is again incorrect, I said he was poor defensively. Name me some positive defensive qualities.......
I also never said our defence was poor I said Maatsen got ripped apart not the defence, the defence bailed him out repeatedly at Hull.
Our defensive record will count for nothing in the premier league despite how good we've been your underestimating how weak the championship currently is and how big the gap between the two leagues is.

[Big Vinny K]

Again your the one talking nonsense, you've stated all his attacking abilities which I haven't questioned then your saying I called him poor which is again incorrect, I said he was poor defensively. Name me some positive defensive qualities.......
I also never said our defence was poor I said Maatsen got ripped apart not the defence, the defence bailed him out repeatedly at Hull.
Our defensive record will count for nothing in the premier league despite how good we've been your underestimating how weak the championship currently is and how big the gap between the two leagues is.

Who said his athleticism and technical ability were just in relation to attacking abilities ? Are they not defensive attributes ?
You said he’s been ripped apart a few times this season - and his defending is poor. Both complete exaggerations.
When Taylor has played in defence his technical limitations have been shown up as he takes too long to control the ball and cannot play the ball quickly like Maatsen or the other defenders which is key to us breaking the other teams press and getting the overload on the opposition.

You have zero understanding of the game and the way we are set up if you don’t understand our full backs are going to get caught up the pitch occasionally….that’s not having to be bailed out as you put it - it’s a deliberate strategy and why our keeper is on the edge of his box or higher.

[CoolClaret]

The Hull winger was the same, he tore Maatsen to pieces, many other games too where he got ripped apart defensively.
If people think we're going to be tearing through the prem with this team like we have the championship there in for a shock.
We will have to defend a lot more, having a defender who is poor at defending isn't ideal

What, when we drew 1-1 (when we were learning and gelling as a team) or when we beat them - checks notes - 3-0?

Again, let’s bin off Maatsen, Roberts and Kompany…

Give Allardyce a call and get Chaz back in, maybe even a call to wolves for Dawson at right back? And try and nick every game 1-0 or whatever.

I can already see it coming, some of the vitriol that will be posted on here after a few difficult ties, trying to crap on everything that we’ve done/trying to do and bring everyone down to their miserable level.

There’s a reason we used to struggle in the Cups against teams that let us have the ball and that’s because we were crap in possession when teams sat in, we had no idea what to do with it despite being very good at being hard to beat and solid

Basically I want to see us have a go playing this way (and judging off the sizes of the crowds - I’d wager the majority does as well) - if we go down well so what. The PL is obscene as it is and unless you’re one of the top 6 or so you’re in danger of being relegated every season.

Attempting to stay in signing older more experienced players to do a job isn’t going to be sustainable long term. We have to be a club that signs young players and hope that we can develop them and play a a bit of football in the process.

Enjoy the good times whilst they’re here because it won’t always be this way!

[CoolClaret]

Maatsen has improved defensively since August but still has those uncertain moments, particularly with the high pass to the winger he is marking. He seems to lack that space awareness around him, however he can be having a poor game then suddenly create a goal with his running and energy. I think he will continue to improve, and with VK doing comprehensive research on the opposition each week, then maybe he does not start each week. For example you may not start him against the likes of Mahrez or Martinelli or Saka

Maybe just maybe, he looks a bit more vulnerable because he doesn’t have a George Boyd/Scott Arfield/Hendrick/McNeil etc playing as a defensive winger infront of him in a solid 4-4-2 and defending against wingers in space is vastly different than defending in a rigid low-medium block?

Just a thought…

[KRBFC]

It would be suicidal not to, dyche wasn't known for setting the team up defensively for the hell of it it's what he had to to keep us in the division & it worked successfully so, that's 1 of reasons he appealed to Everton in their position because it's what he's good at. Teams will take us on there's no "try" about it we can't go toe to toe, we need a solid defensive rearguard side for the PL on the same sort of foundations dyche built.

You’re acting like there’s only one way to survive relegation

[Cooclaret]

Again your the one talking nonsense, you've stated all his attacking abilities which I haven't questioned then your saying I called him poor which is again incorrect, I said he was poor defensively. Name me some positive defensive qualities.......
I also never said our defence was poor I said Maatsen got ripped apart not the defence, the defence bailed him out repeatedly at Hull.
Our defensive record will count for nothing in the premier league despite how good we've been your underestimating how weak the championship currently is and how big the gap between the two leagues is.

P A C E

T E C H N I C A L

Is 21

He’d be the one I’d be least worried about losing if Chelsea price us out or he chooses to remain there, but it’s clear he’s a class above Taylor in all aspects of the game in this system, in that position.

[claretcarrot93]

Have to be a bit mental to not see what Maatson offers this team. He is a class act and is only going to get better. What were Chillwell and Robertson doing at his age?

[bumba]

Who said his athleticism and technical ability were just in relation to attacking abilities ? Are they not defensive attributes ?
You said he’s been ripped apart a few times this season - and his defending is poor. Both complete exaggerations.
When Taylor has played in defence his technical limitations have been shown up as he takes too long to control the ball and cannot play the ball quickly like Maatsen or the other defenders which is key to us breaking the other teams press and getting the overload on the opposition.

You have zero understanding of the game and the way we are set up if you don’t understand our full backs are going to get caught up the pitch occasionally….that’s not having to be bailed out as you put it - it’s a deliberate strategy and why our keeper is on the edge of his box or higher.

I'm not talking about full backs being caught up the pitch I'm talking about basic simple 1 on 1 defending, he gets targeted every game because he's the weak spot in our defence or are other teams managers less understanding than you about the game?
Roberts has the samen job but defends much better, gets goals gets assists but does his job and defends.
You can bang on about all this modern garbage of systems all you want but a left backs first job is too defend when he needs too, tell me a left back that doesn't have to defend and I'll educate you that he is in fact a left winger.

[bumba]

What, when we drew 1-1 (when we were learning and gelling as a team) or when we beat them - checks notes - 3-0?

Again, let’s bin off Maatsen, Roberts and Kompany…

Give Allardyce a call and get Chaz back in, maybe even a call to wolves for Dawson at right back? And try and nick every game 1-0 or whatever.

I can already see it coming, some of the vitriol that will be posted on here after a few difficult ties, trying to crap on everything that we’ve done/trying to do and bring everyone down to their miserable level.

There’s a reason we used to struggle in the Cups against teams that let us have the ball and that’s because we were crap in possession when teams sat in, we had no idea what to do with it despite being very good at being hard to beat and solid

Basically I want to see us have a go playing this way (and judging off the sizes of the crowds - I’d wager the majority does as well) - if we go down well so what. The PL is obscene as it is and unless you’re one of the top 6 or so you’re in danger of being relegated every season.

Attempting to stay in signing older more experienced players to do a job isn’t going to be sustainable long term. We have to be a club that signs young players and hope that we can develop them and play a a bit of football in the process.

Enjoy the good times whilst they’re here because it won’t always be this way!

We won 3-1 at Hull

[tiger76]

What, when we drew 1-1 (when we were learning and gelling as a team) or when we beat them - checks notes - 3-0?

Again, let’s bin off Maatsen, Roberts and Kompany…

Give Allardyce a call and get Chaz back in, maybe even a call to wolves for Dawson at right back? And try and nick every game 1-0 or whatever.

I can already see it coming, some of the vitriol that will be posted on here after a few difficult ties, trying to crap on everything that we’ve done/trying to do and bring everyone down to their miserable level.

There’s a reason we used to struggle in the Cups against teams that let us have the ball and that’s because we were crap in possession when teams sat in, we had no idea what to do with it despite being very good at being hard to beat and solid

Basically I want to see us have a go playing this way (and judging off the sizes of the crowds - I’d wager the majority does as well) - if we go down well so what. The PL is obscene as it is and unless you’re one of the top 6 or so you’re in danger of being relegated every season.

Attempting to stay in signing older more experienced players to do a job isn’t going to be sustainable long term. We have to be a club that signs young players and hope that we can develop them and play a a bit of football in the process.

Enjoy the good times whilst they’re here because it won’t always be this way!

An excellent post, and I totally agree we might as well have a go at teams, wins will be the key to staying up, and with our current squad there's no point sitting in and trying to nick something from a set-piece, as that's unlikely to prove successful.

When will some fans understand that we have moved on from Dyche (great though he was) and are now a club which develops youth in the hope of selling on one day, long gone are our days of shopping at Stoke.

You are equally correct any Burnley fan should be soaking up all our recent successes, as our fortunes could quickly turn sour again.

[tiger76]

Have to be a bit mental to not see what Maatson offers this team. He is a class act and is only going to get better. What were Chillwell and Robertson doing at his age?

Maatsen has his flaws naturally, but he's still learning the game, an exciting talent that will hopefully flourish under Kompany's management.

Chilwell not sure.

Robertson I think would have been at either Dundee Utd or Hull.

[Big Vinny K]

I'm not talking about full backs being caught up the pitch I'm talking about basic simple 1 on 1 defending, he gets targeted every game because he's the weak spot in our defence or are other teams managers less understanding than you about the game?
Roberts has the samen job but defends much better, gets goals gets assists but does his job and defends.
You can bang on about all this modern garbage of systems all you want but a left backs first job is too defend when he needs too, tell me a left back that doesn't have to defend and I'll educate you that he is in fact a left winger.

And Maatsen is better than Roberts at passing, switching play and shooting. Plus Roberts has more experience. But they both suit our system well and clearly it’s more to do with how they get forward than how they defend. Roberts was not great at defending at all under Dyche.

Your comments about modern garbage system and defending being the full backs first job are actually laughable given the way Kompany has transformed the team and our football.

I could name dozens of full backs that are better going forward than they are defending but you know what I’m going to leave it there on this thread to save you any further embarrassment.

[KlyBfc]

Again your the one talking nonsense, you've stated all his attacking abilities which I haven't questioned then your saying I called him poor which is again incorrect, I said he was poor defensively. Name me some positive defensive qualities.......
I also never said our defence was poor I said Maatsen got ripped apart not the defence, the defence bailed him out repeatedly at Hull.
Our defensive record will count for nothing in the premier league despite how good we've been your underestimating how weak the championship currently is and how big the gap between the two leagues is.

The Hull game is an interesting one. He did get rinsed a number of times by the winger, however he equally played two sublime balls thus having a hand in two goals (one the cross for Tella’s second the other the ball forward to Barnes before Tella’s third). So in weighing it up do you want to increase your chances of scoring more or decrease you chances of conceding.

However just to add the goal we conceded late on seemed to be more to do with a little lapse / poor decision from Taylor who had come on for Ekdal from what I remember.

[CoolClaret]

We won 3-1 at Hull

Sorry, I forgot about the injury time consolation goal. Well done on 'winning' on some semantic point-scoring crap completely failing to grasp the actual point/post behind it and offer an actual rebuttal.

[Jakubclaret]

You’re acting like there’s only one way to survive relegation

For a club like burnley maybe there is in this present time where money & success usually go hand in hand. We'll see anyway in the course of time what will happen no doubt.

[Mixedkompany]

Returning to the OP regarding Taylor rather than Maatsen etc etc.
As much as I would like to keep Taylor as a back up utility player.
I suspect the decision will simply come down to money.
It seems all the ex prem old guard are all well paid. 30-40k per week figures banded about as you would expect for several seasons in the PL. Unless Charlie is prepared to accept much reduced terms. And I except he most likely had a relegation clause. He will simply be outside our budget.

[bumba]

And Maatsen is better than Roberts at passing, switching play and shooting. Plus Roberts has more experience. But they both suit our system well and clearly it’s more to do with how they get forward than how they defend. Roberts was not great at defending at all under Dyche.

Your comments about modern garbage system and defending being the full backs first job are actually laughable given the way Kompany has transformed the team and our football.

I could name dozens of full backs that are better going forward than they are defending but you know what I’m going to leave it there on this thread to save you any further embarrassment.

Embarassment oh dear.
How is it laughable? You can come up with all the gobbledegook you want but football is a simple 11 v 11 game.
Defends jobs are to stop goals first
Attackers jobs are to score goals first
It is indeed very very simple.

[bumba]

Sorry, I forgot about the injury time consolation goal. Well done on 'winning' on some semantic point-scoring crap completely failing to grasp the actual point/post behind it and offer an actual rebuttal.

Soon as I saw you got the score wrong then mention binning off Maatsen, Kompany and Roberts plus mention Allardyce's name I stopped reading cos I knew you was going way off topic talking nonsense