Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.

[FeedTheArf]

I think you have got that spot on. For what it’s worth Hudson Odoi at 8m looks like a steal. He’s still only 22 and we have seen first hand what he can do, when he tore Charlie Taylor a new one a few years back.

That’s a player we could almost double in value in a season

I think the only reason why we wouldn't be interested in that price is the wages involved. He'll be on big money at Chelsea (by our standards) and someone like Fulham / West Ham won't blink at paying 70-80k+ a week - and he gets to stay in London.

It's got to work in terms of fee and wages for us.

[daveisaclaret]

There's no way bumba's grudge against Nathan Tella isn't personal. Nobody could sustain such nonsense without holding a grudge.

[roperclaret]

But I don’t think that’s the model of the club?

The model is to buy players that you can make a profit on after a couple of seasons. If said player isn’t playing regular you are less likely to make the profit margins. Especially if the starting fee is a high one.

That’s why I say if Tella is around the 6-9m mark it wouldn’t matter if he’s not a regular starter as we could still likely turn a profit on him. That is a lot less likely if he is in the 15-20m mark.

Is it the model of the club? I’m not sure. I think it was at the beginning of last season when they had a plan to get back in the Premier league in 3 years. The fact we bounced straight back will have changed that. No way would we have been paying 8 figure sums for the likes of Beyer and Andoumi if we were still in the Championship. There’s way more money to be had by staying up this year than selling a couple of players.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I think the only reason why we wouldn't be interested in that price is the wages involved. He'll be on big money at Chelsea (by our standards) and someone like Fulham / West Ham won't blink at paying 70-80k+ a week - and he gets to stay in London.

It's got to work in terms of fee and wages for us.

Correct. It is very short sighted working out if a player is cheap using his transfer fee as a guide.

Not sure how accurate but there were a couple of reports I saw saying he was on over 100k a week at Chelsea since he signed his new 5 year deal.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Hudson Odoi is on crazy wages at Chelsea though isn't he? £8 million may seem relatively cheap (although he has lost his way a bit in last couple of years) but I'm sure Chelsea gave him a massive contract when Bayern were trying to sign him 3/4 seasons ago. So I think they're accepting slightly below what he's really worth just to get him off the wage bill

He’s on £120k a week at Chelsea and he’s barely earned that tbh
Rarely does 90mins, mainly cameo stuff

[CoolClaret]

I think it comes down finances for me.

At 15-20m Tella has to be a certain starter. With the players we have in the squad and the potential addition of Townsend, I really do not see the club wanting to spend that kind of money on a squad player, it just doesn’t make financial sense.

If we could get him for 6-9m I could see the deal happening.

For sure, not suggesting that we pay over the odds and get Southampton to pull our pants down, but to suggest Tella isn’t good enough based on his time with Southampton is a bit daft, at least in my book.

Now for ‘bumba’

You posted:

Southampton fans slated him when he played for them in the premier league

I replied:

So? Marney was slated when he first signed then was unanimously loved.

You replied:

What the hell has Dean Marney got to do with it? Very strange.

It was merely to show that fans’ opinions about a player after a few performances really doesn’t mean jack ****.

Forest fans thought Muric was pants and were laughing at us after we signed him.

Many of us thought Conor Roberts was a bit of a dud and not up to it - how wrong were we?

Point is, certain managers can see things that others can’t and can also get a tune out of players when others cant.

Vinny did this with Tella - it was pretty clear to see.

[mdd2]

I think we have a squad of over 21 of 26 so if anyone comes in some have to be loaned or sold
Possibles Muric (unlikely) Lewis Churlinov Bastien Vitinho Weghorst Twine Jay Gudmonnson Cork Taylor
Imagine Lewis would not be in the 25 so we already have by my reckoning 25 squad players at present
who would need to be in the 25 if selected.
So if anymore incomings, whose going on loan or transferred?

[burnley007]

According to the never reliable Mailonline our interest in Tella is finished.
I want him even more than I already did, just to show how crappy that rag is.

[RVclaret]

According to the never reliable Mailonline our interest in Tella is finished.
I want him even more than I already did, just to show how crappy that rag is.

You got a link for that?

[claretandy]

You got a link for that?

Just read it, it doesn't say that.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ected.html

[TheFamilyCat]

There's no way bumba's grudge against Nathan Tella isn't personal. Nobody could sustain such nonsense without holding a grudge.

He must have missed out on getting Nathan's shirt despite standing at the front of the JML in the rain all game with his crappy cardboard sign.

[jedi_master]

It’s sort of linking the signature of Larsen in as an alternative to Tella which we know not to be true (we’ve been trying to sign both it seems all summer effectively). I certainly don’t read that article as evidence of us walking away, personally.

[BobLordsPencil]

Just read it, it doesn't say that.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ected.html

That doesn't say our interest has ended, although I can see how it reads. That is a rag hedging their bets. The Larsen deal was already spoken about before the bid for Tella went in

[Rowls]

According to the never reliable Mailonline our interest in Tella is finished.
I want him even more than I already did, just to show how crappy that rag is.

The Mail article does not say we've given up on Tella.
The Mail have had some good info on us for a few years now.
It's an excellent paper. Don't mix up papers who don't like with bad papers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ected.html

[BobLordsPencil]

The Mail article does not say we've given up on Tella.
The Mail have had some good info on us for a few years now.
It's an excellent paper. Don't mix up papers who don't like with bad papers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ected.html

Do you read the Sun as well?

[willsclarets]

I love Tella but it would make sense we've moved on. With Amdouni, Larsen, Benson, Twine, Zaroury and Foster those players pick up either the wide areas or the hole behind the striker that Tella fills.

Would be delighted to sign him, but much more delighted to see Vranxs and Lakonga through the door. Or just Vranxs and a LB

[burnley007]

Do you read the Sun as well?

I would assume The Daily Express.
Equally right-wing

[spt_claret]

I think you have got that spot on. For what it’s worth Hudson Odoi at 8m looks like a steal. He’s still only 22 and we have seen first hand what he can do, when he tore Charlie Taylor a new one a few years back.

That’s a player we could almost double in value in a season

If we could afford his wages I'd take Odoi over Tella.

I'm in the middle on the Tella debate. He had some marvelous performances but also had stretches of ineffective ones, at 17 league goals he was our top scorer but 8 of those came in 3 games. He scored in 12 games in all- Benson bagged in 10 and Jay in 9.

He was good for us, but was ineffective for Southampton at this level, but we're a wholly different system so it's hard to compare.

I still don't think he's a winger. Not saying he's as good but his playing style reminds me of a Samuel Eto'o, David Villa, dash of Michael Owen. . Possibly that sort of, rather German football, offset deep forward role that Podolski played or Thomas Muller's done at times.

Quick, technically proficient, good finisher and good at quick layoffs, decent dribbler, but more of a striker than a midfielder. His crossing was lacking and his football intelligence was hit miss, he seemed to often choose to dribble and shoot when he should pass, or pass when he should shoot (spurning a 4th goal to try tee up Foster against Preston).

I'd absolutely have him back if possible, obviously, he knows the system and looked bright, but the price Southampton are holding out for seems like a gamble where we can potentially find equivalent for cheaper or better for the same. For that price I'd rather get in a LB or CM. But then I felt we also overpaid on Trafford who, huge potential or not wasn't a player I felt we're in need of right now, so I'm clearly not good at predicting our transfer dealings this summer.

[Lancasterclaret]

The Sports pages of all newspapers are all worth reading for links and rumours, but only up to a point

I'd be amazed if we've dropped out interest in Tella, but we will have other targets, and its perfectly possible that Southampton holding out for a bigger fee could result in us getting one of the other targets in, and we've then drop our interest in Tella

[spt_claret]

But I don’t think that’s the model of the club?

The model is to buy players that you can make a profit on after a couple of seasons. If said player isn’t playing regular you are less likely to make the profit margins. Especially if the starting fee is a high one.

That’s why I say if Tella is around the 6-9m mark it wouldn’t matter if he’s not a regular starter as we could still likely turn a profit on him. That is a lot less likely if he is in the 15-20m mark.

This is also why I feel for Muric as I think from a club financial model POV Trafford is a locked on #1 for every game barring calamity. Muric has improved so much, really really impressed me (although I think part of it is also the defence in front of him, he looked shakier with THB which is why I wasn't clamouring for his return either) and the goalkeeper role wasn't one I felt in need of upgrading as much as other positions.

We aren't and will never be a club who can drop north of £14m for a backup keeper.

[Goody1975]

I'm in the middle on the Tella debate. He had some marvelous performances but also had stretches of ineffective ones, at 17 league goals he was our top scorer but 8 of those came in 3 games. He scored in 12 games in all- Benson bagged in 10 and Jay in 9.

Stats can be made to fit any narrative, there is far more to Tella than just goals, the same appears to be the case with Amdouni.

Yes, we want to pay a fair price for Tella but he is someone who was vital to our success last season.

[Woodleyclaret]

Spot on .Tella is a great prospect and imo £15m is probably a decent price and with potential profit in future.

[JimmyRobbo]

The Mail article does not say we've given up on Tella.
The Mail have had some good info on us for a few years now.
It's an excellent paper. Don't mix up papers who don't like with bad papers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ected.html

Come on Rowls, you're better than that!

The Mail is an awful rag. Have you seen the list of apologies they have to make each year for mistakes and wrongful accusations? It surpasses every other media outlet by an enormous margin. On subjects which I am qualified in, I think it virtually never represents the whole story accurately. I wouldn't trust it with much that it prints.

It has had some reasonaby accurate articles about us, though.

[spt_claret]

Stats can be made to fit any narrative, there is far more to Tella than just goals, the same appears to be the case with Amdouni.

Yes, we want to pay a fair price for Tella but he is someone who was vital to our success last season.

He was a very important player but not indispensable - for me the most crucial attacking player we have is Benson followed by Zaroury, then Tella.

I like how people like stats until it disagrees.
FbRef is a good data source.
Tella is very high on goalscoring, xG, outperforming his xG, attacking penalty area touches, and received progressive passes. Moderate for take ons, shots, blocks.
He's low for an att mid/winger on progressive passes made, passes attempted and completed, successful dribbles, assists and expected assists.

Benson blows him out the water for every attacking metric and creativity metric except progressive passes. Zaroury has rather wonky stats but his creativity is quite a bit ahead when it comes to dribbles and expected assists.

Tella outperforms his xA, Zaroury flat, Benson under. Which suggests Tella is finding players who score harder chances, Zaroury finds players who score when you'd expect, and Benson finds players who spurn chances.

Tella is very good but isn't irreplaceable especially at that price, and Im convinced he's destined to end up as a striker in more of the mould of those I said, or closer to home Lyle Foster. We've other positions to strengthen ahead of him.

[mybloodisclaret]

It doesn't say anywhere our interest has ended. Saints fans seem to read it as we have also and have linked the Mail in the article below. The author of the article also seems to think "most sources" value Tella at double our current offering. Interesting how fans value their own players.

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/ ... ews/60521/

[Rowls]

Do you read the Sun as well?

I'll read almost any newspaper except Express, Star and Mirror. I've not looked at the Mirror for a while though, I have to admit.

If you only read papers that espose beliefs you already have, you'll never be able to challenge your beliefs.

My favourite papers are the Daily Mail, the Guardian and Telegraph. Great journalism in all these.

[roperclaret]

This is also why I feel for Muric as I think from a club financial model POV Trafford is a locked on #1 for every game barring calamity. Muric has improved so much, really really impressed me (although I think part of it is also the defence in front of him, he looked shakier with THB which is why I wasn't clamouring for his return either) and the goalkeeper role wasn't one I felt in need of upgrading as much as other positions.

We aren't and will never be a club who can drop north of £14m for a backup keeper.

Again, we have 2 very good young goalkeepers. But if Vigeroux plays better for whatever reason, then I think VK would pick him.

[claret2018]

The Mail has some good sports reporters.

The rest of it is so unreliable you’re better getting your news from the radio stations in grand theft auto

[CoolClaret]

He was a very important player but not indispensable - for me the most crucial attacking player we have is Benson followed by Zaroury, then Tella.

I like how people like stats until it disagrees.
FbRef is a good data source.
Tella is very high on goalscoring, xG, outperforming his xG, attacking penalty area touches, and received progressive passes. Moderate for take ons, shots, blocks.
He's low for an att mid/winger on progressive passes made, passes attempted and completed, successful dribbles, assists and expected assists.

Benson blows him out the water for every attacking metric and creativity metric except progressive passes. Zaroury has rather wonky stats but his creativity is quite a bit ahead when it comes to dribbles and expected assists.

Tella outperforms his xA, Zaroury flat, Benson under. Which suggests Tella is finding players who score harder chances, Zaroury finds players who score when you'd expect, and Benson finds players who spurn chances.

Tella is very good but isn't irreplaceable especially at that price, and Im convinced he's destined to end up as a striker in more of the mould of those I said, or closer to home Lyle Foster. We've other positions to strengthen ahead of him.

It’s almost like Tella played a different role than Benson or Zaroury….

He was the guy on the end of those and our in behind threat.

The system changed when Benson was on the field. Tella offers something very different. All have been important in our success last season.

[JimmyRobbo]

The Mail has some good sports reporters.

The rest of it is so unreliable you’re better getting your news from the radio stations in grand theft auto

They are brilliant, though. So well scripted.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Again, we have 2 very good young goalkeepers. But if Vigeroux plays better for whatever reason, then I think VK would pick him.

I just can’t see it, I would be a absolutely amazed if Trafford doesn’t start every single game he is fit

[jojomk1]

I'm beginning to think Tella is "one of our own"

[Cooclaret]

You might be right but at 15m+ it’s still a big risk. People say ‘just pay it’ and that ‘it’s the market’ but when you have players like Ismaila Sarr going for £11m, Callum Hudson Odoi available for £8m and Anthony Elanga for £15m, suddenly Tella looks overpriced at 15-20m, as those 3 mentioned all have proven pedigree at a higher level. I think it’s very much fan emotions driving the ‘just pay it’ rather than good business sense.

This is the end of the debate.

[Goody1975]

It’s almost like Tella played a different role than Benson or Zaroury….

He was the guy on the end of those and our in behind threat.

The system changed when Benson was on the field. Tella offers something very different. All have been important in our success last season.

Yes, just about what my point was.

[Cooclaret]

Do you read the Sun as well?

This is the perfect example of why you don’t have discussions with idiots.

Rowls talking about a journalist working for a paper who has good info on BFC is related to a sweeping statement about his intellect.

[spt_claret]

It’s almost like Tella played a different role than Benson or Zaroury….

He was the guy on the end of those and our in behind threat.

The system changed when Benson was on the field. Tella offers something very different. All have been important in our success last season.

Don't dispute any of that, my point is I don't think he was our most important attacker or indispensable when his most natural role to me looks like one that Foster or Amdouni and possibly a fit Obafemi can fill. I've said I'd like him back, I just don't think it's something we do at all costs and I think for Southampton's asking price we have other priorities to consider.

[CoolClaret]

Don't dispute any of that, my point is I don't think he was our most important attacker or indispensable when his most natural role to me looks like one that Foster or Amdouni and possibly a fit Obafemi can fill. I've said I'd like him back, I just don't think it's something we do at all costs and I think for Southampton's asking price we have other priorities to consider.

That’s fair and I think we will see another slightly tweaked system - especially going off what we saw at Benfica… tonihht will give another indication of the sort of system that we’ll probably be going with but it does appear that we want both of our widemen to be more providers than inbehind threats.

I personally dont think any of them can do that - maybe Obafemi but still think he has slightly different attributes to Nathan.

I think he was our most important attacker because we looked a different team with him in the side - especially on the counter attack.

I find it a bit strange how you can’t see that he wasn’t our most important attacker when he scored most of our goals and was basically an ever present (up until his injury at least)

[CaptainKirk]

WOW
Just logged in for first time since yesterday and saw we had 3 more pages. We must have signed somebody good??!!
No.
Just 3 pages of d**k swinging and arguing - again.

Tella is someone I would love to see back here.
He is not Liam Robinson (sorry Liam) but he is not Ronaldo either.
If VK wants him, he will try and get him - but not at any price. Surely we can all agree on that?

[Newcastleclaret93]

That’s fair and I think we will see another slightly tweaked system - especially going off what we saw at Benfica… tonihht will give another indication of the sort of system that we’ll probably be going with but it does appear that we want both of our widemen to be more providers than inbehind threats.

I personally dont think any of them can do that - maybe Obafemi but still think he has slightly different attributes to Nathan.

I think he was our most important attacker because we looked a different team with him in the side - especially on the counter attack.

I find it a bit strange how you can’t see that he wasn’t our most important attacker when he scored most of our goals and was basically an ever present (up until his injury at least)

I’m my opinion Benson is our most important attacker and arguably our best player.

[daveisaclaret]

I'm in the middle on the Tella debate. He had some marvelous performances but also had stretches of ineffective ones, at 17 league goals he was our top scorer but 8 of those came in 3 games. He scored in 12 games in all- Benson bagged in 10 and Jay in 9.

Is scoring more than once in a game a bad thing?

[BigChaCha]

I’m my opinion Benson is our most important attacker and arguably our best player.

Is that the same Benson who struggled at times to make the starting team in the Championship?

[CoolClaret]

Is scoring more than once in a game a bad thing?

Apparently so - we need players that spread their goals across all matches - preferably in every match

Oh hang on, it’s not 2017 and we can’t afford Salah, Ronaldo or Messi

[Newcastleclaret93]

Is that the same Benson who struggled at times to make the starting team in the Championship?

It’s hard being injured

[Firthy]

Really don't get all the doubts over Tella playing in the Premier League. You could say the same thing for most of our team from last season.

He was our top scorer, he brought an enthusiasm to the team and can play as a winger, striker or at 10. He has pace to burn and an eye for goal with a great first touch. He's definitely worth 12-15m IMO and he's the one player who I really hope we can get over the line.

[spt_claret]

That’s fair and I think we will see another slightly tweaked system - especially going off what we saw at Benfica… tonihht will give another indication of the sort of system that we’ll probably be going with but it does appear that we want both of our widemen to be more providers than inbehind threats.

I personally dont think any of them can do that - maybe Obafemi but still think he has slightly different attributes to Nathan.

I think he was our most important attacker because we looked a different team with him in the side - especially on the counter attack.

I find it a bit strange how you can’t see that he wasn’t our most important attacker when he scored most of our goals and was basically an ever present (up until his injury at least)

Being top scorer doesn't tell the whole story, that is a prime example of superficial stats and it's why sports data analysis exists.
On scoring and assist stats, Zinedine Zidane wasn't up to much compared to Gerrard or Lampard.
Tella is very good but I do maintain that looking beyond the top scorer status, Benson is the more important attacker. He was enormous in terms of key goals, assists, and creating chances for himself and others. As was Zaroury.
Tellas role was more as an outlet for those chances, and I think we can fill that role. He's desirable but not irreplaceable.

And to answer the other poster, no, scoring multiple goals a game isn't bad, but having 50% of your goals for the season concentrated in 3 games does suggest hot-and-cold output.

And again I'm saying this while thinking Tellas more natural position is further forward than we played him. I'd love him back but not for 15-18m.

[CoolClaret]

I’m my opinion Benson is our most important attacker and arguably our best player.

Benson is brilliant and provides moments of magic that really pulled us out of the crap.

They are however very different players - I think it’s fair to suggest that Tella was more consistent in terms of constantly running channels hard, leading the line and pressing hard.

Benson’s moments of magic came in spurts - hence why he was often so good off the bench.

[BigChaCha]

Do you read the Sun as well?

I would assume The Daily Express.
Equally right-wing

So what?... I know this board is a left-wing petri dish but there should be room for everyone of all persuasions without being castigated.

[roperclaret]

I just can’t see it, I would be a absolutely amazed if Trafford doesn’t start every single game he is fit

That’s because you seem to think the size of the transfer fee determines how good the player is. He may well play every game, but if he does that will because he deserves to not because we are trying to increase his value for a future sale.

[BigChaCha]

It’s hard being injured

Did you actually see any games last season?... Benson was very average from the start quite often and was dropped many times because of that when he was completely fit... He's a talent but if you think performing for 20 minutes at the end of a game against tired legs makes him our best player and a threat from the start of a game in the premiership, then you have not been watching him properly.

[CoolClaret]

Being top scorer doesn't tell the whole story, that is a prime example of superficial stats and it's why sports data analysis exists.
On scoring and assist stats, Zinedine Zidane wasn't up to much compared to Gerrard or Lampard.
Tella is very good but I do maintain that looking beyond the top scorer status, Benson is the more important attacker. He was enormous in terms of key goals, assists, and creating chances for himself and others. As was Zaroury.
Tellas role was more as an outlet for those chances, and I think we can fill that role. He's desirable but not irreplaceable.

The point was his goal scoring indicates that he was a key player for us - and someone had to stick the ball in the back of the net…

It wasn’t to bash others in the squad and the comps with ZiZu to Lamps/Gerrard proves absolutely nothing. Different position for a start.

You’ve harped on about stats and underlying stats which are important but there’s on that you can’t quantify in the same way and that’s pressing ability and the ability to stretch the pitch.

Can you find any data anywhere about how many balls Tella nicked in transition to launch a counter attack vs Benson for example? Or how many sprints recorded per game, pressures on keeper etc etc

I don’t think posters want us to throw 20 mill at Tella, especially when we’ve already brought some widemen in… but say he was available for 15 and could be a key contributor in a pivotal season?… well I think fans have a right to question why we’d be happy to throw 14 mill on a young keeper (resale value aside) but not stretch a tiny bit to land someone that was pretty vital to our promotion last season, that also had unique qualities that are pretty hard to come by.

How many players have we had over the years that you could say have Tellas top end pace, fitness and finishing ability?